David Thomsen

Pirates theme getting better

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The 'Pirates theme getting worse' topic has been floating at the top of the Pirates forum for quite some time now... basically I just wanted to start a topic where people only talk about the things they like about the modern Pirates theme, and what they look forward to in the future.

So I'll start I guess...

  • Modern bricks! One example is the 'brick' brick used in the 2015 Soldier sets. While I have fond memories of of the printed brick pattern in sets like Sabre Island, nothing beats actually building those patterns out of proper Lego pieces. And while I had my reservations about the new bandanna piece, I admit it adds some variety to my pirate headgear. And then there's things like bottles and telescopes, which didn't exist in classic Pirates.
  • Modern torso back-printing! I really appreciate this extra detail.
  • Faster updates! Some of the classic torsos from 1989 were still being used five or more years later. Not so with the updates between 2009 and 2015 Pirates, where all new torsos were being used. (And mostly new faces, I think).
  • Modularity! I really enjoy being able to connect several of the 2015 sets together to make larger sets.
  • D2C sets. Okay, there has only been one of these so far, the Imperial Flagship... but the scale of it totally makes up for not having had the BSB as a kid. And I don't care what the haters say, I love every part of my IF.

Even if the next Pirates line is in 2021 or something, I'm looking forward to seeing what new innovations and ideas between now and then keep things fresh and new. Who knows... maybe we'll get a female Pirate captain, or an all female Pirate crew. The future's so bright, I have to put on my sunglasses.

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The latest releases also marked the return of the blue coats which is something many had been requesting ever since the 2009 releases.

 

48 minutes ago, David Thomsen said:

Modern bricks! One example is the 'brick' brick used in the 2015 Soldier sets. While I have fond memories of of the printed brick pattern in sets like Sabre Island, nothing beats actually building those patterns out of proper Lego pieces.

Indeed!  Also the soldiers got an updated flag printed directly onto a brick rather than some horrible sticker.

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Where is admin, when topic is need to be closed? :-)

You find some bright sides of the situation, it doesn't means that this is a good direction. Good side is that we have new minifigs. Bad side is that this terrible sets are only a part donners. I didn't build any of them, and I didn't buy ship, because of awful sails. Good parts, but terrible design.

When I look at Ninjago sets, I see that there is a few brilliant designer in TLG. But any of them design 2015 Pirates.

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Here's my short take on the topic:

I liked all of the sets just fine, with the exception of the pirate ship... which should be the crown jewel of the line!  It really felt like it needed about 100 more pieces to make it feel complete.  Decent "play value" I suppose, but just a little more work and it could have been great.

Now, I said I liked all of the other sets which is true, but all of the other sets in the line (excluding the chess set) had fewer pieces combined than the ship... and the Brick Bounty only had 745 pieces!  Where was the decent bluecoat fort?  Or an imperial clipper to counter the pirate ship?  Or really anything else beyond a glorified mini-build?  I also liked how those sets could be combined and actually kind of appreciate the idea of having a few smaller sets that are easier for folks to purchase that can be put together as if they were intended as 1 larger set, but even with doing that we end up with only 2 decent-sized sets and the ship.  The whole thing just felt like they only put in half the effort that an "evergreen" theme deserved.  :pir-sceptic:

Sorry- we were trying to keep it positive... so, uh... look at my positive points above.  :laugh:  And I do agree that the parts usage with some of the newer pieces worked really well!

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I agree that back printing and bottles - thats great. And the most cool pirates head is among the latest minifigurs (# 16). And the most unusual captain is in series 14. But bluecoats didn't get a ship though they need it. Why do you think the next wave will be in 2021? I heard about 2019 - that's the year of pirates 30 years. There are rumours about celebration. For example, LEGO Pirate movie will be released  in 1919 as LEGO ninjago movie in 1917.

Edited by Staslegomaster

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13 hours ago, Staslegomaster said:

I agree that back printing and bottles - thats great. And the most cool pirates head is among the latest minifigurs (# 16). And the most unusual captain is in series 14. But bluecoats didn't get a ship though they need it. Why do you think the next wave will be in 2021? I heard about 2019 - that's the year of pirates 30 years. There are rumours about celebration. For example, LEGO Pirate movie will be released  in 1919 as LEGO ninjago movie in 1917.

I was just going but the distance between Pirates II (2009) and Pirates III (2015). Next would be Pirates IV (2021) if they continue that pattern. I tend to disregard 'rumours', unless there are enough sources.

I have heard nothing about a Lego Pirate movie! What is your source for that? Would it be Classic Pirate themed, or more like crazy steampunk themed like Metalbeard?

Incidentally in 'forecast' of what we might expect in the future, I almost made a joke about a Batman-themed pirate ship... turns out this is actually a thing! :pir-grin: Batman Pirate Ship

Edited by David Thomsen

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*oh2**oh2**oh2*

What??

A LEGO Pirates Movie???

That would mean a wave and a CMF line in 2019 

Edited by Robert8

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1 hour ago, Staslegomaster said:

Hi, David Thomsen.This will be a classic pirate. And the authors have discussions now. Time will give other answer, too.

Is this the one mentioned in the "A 'Lego Pirates' Movie" thread by CaptainRoger? Or something official? Because I can't find any reference to this on Google or anywhere.

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That would be really cool news.  I would love to see it.  I'd prefer a LEGO Castle movie (if only for the minifigures), but this would be swell.

Anyways, I think the Pirates theme is getting better, despite the fact that the sets are getting smaller.  The minifigures are better, as are the building techniques, colors, and parts.

Overall, Pirates 2015 was a great theme, and I can't wait to see the next Pirate theme.

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 6:36 AM, David Thomsen said:

Is this the one mentioned in the "A 'Lego Pirates' Movie" thread by CaptainRoger? Or something official? Because I can't find any reference to this on Google or anywhere.

Sorry, what is Captain Roger? I learned about the movie by chance when I was asking LEGO designers in what sets of classic pirares there was bluecoats admiral (1989) and how they plan to celebrate 30 years of pirates. They said they couldn't speak about any details but said the will be a movie soon. Rumours are about, the'll do that in 2017 when they finish the next Pirates of the Caribbien. Let's hope that's not a joke.

 

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 5:51 AM, Robert8 said:

*oh2**oh2**oh2*

What??

A LEGO Pirates Movie???

That would mean a wave and a CMF line in 2019 

Sometimes we can find pirates among CMF. But there seam to be no separate series for them, as the Simpsons, for example or "Lego Movie". As for a wave of sets, small drops of hints in LEGO.com lead to fans' interests tsunami. and the LEGO teams can't give any details.

13 hours ago, x105Black said:

That would be really cool news.  I would love to see it.  I'd prefer a LEGO Castle movie (if only for the minifigures), but this would be swell.

Anyways, I think the Pirates theme is getting better, despite the fact that the sets are getting smaller.  The minifigures are better, as are the building techniques, colors, and parts.

Overall, Pirates 2015 was a great theme, and I can't wait to see the next Pirate theme.

I know fans can't wait to see the next Pirate theme. Neither can I. But we'll have to.

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I agree that the pirates line is getting better for the above-mentioned reasons.  Modern updates make for more realistic sets.

Many people mention that sets are getting smaller as a negative.  This, to me, seems like the logical way for LEGO to follow with inflation. It is just not fair to compare a 1989 (27-year-old!) set size and price to a 2016 set size and price.  LEGO has the option to either increase price points or decrease set size.  Decreasing set size makes more sense, as people naturally tend towards preferring the 20-30-40-etc. price points in the 10-digit numerical system commonly used world-wide.  I would rather see larger sets, but I am an adult MOCcer rather than a child in TLG's target audience.  The set designs are appealing and merge together nicely.

The imbalance between large pirates sets vs large soldiers sets seems logical as well, even if I do not like it that way.  Due to influences like Robert Louis Stevenson's "Treasure Island" and Disney's "Pirates of the Caribbean", pirates become the central part of the theme (hence the name), while soldiers are a side part to the theme.  Most children are probably more likely to prefer a castle to a fort, due to being more iconic, while pirates are represented by iconic ships.

I do get tired of seeing the Pirates theme follow the pattern with small soldier and pirate structures with similar design and one large pirate ship, just as I get tired of the Castle theme producing evil Dragons vs good Lions with sets centered around gray castle walls and towers or siege machines.  The problem for adults is that TLG produces sets for children, not adults, and therefore do not produce many sets to my personal standard for a MOC.  I look at themes for introducing new parts so that I can MOC what I want, rather than hoping that TLG will start producing realistic MOCs for sale.  This seems to be what most people forget when they complain about sets being small or disproportional to reality: TLG produces children's play sets, not MOC dioramas (which would be far too expensive to ever succeed in profitable sales!).

So, LEGO, keep making updated parts and minifigures in nice little sets to provide MOC parts, please!

...and an occasional D2C set to please the adults would be very nice. :wink:

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5 hours ago, Staslegomaster said:

Sorry, what is Captain Roger? I learned about the movie by chance when I was asking LEGO designers in what sets of classic pirares there was bluecoats admiral (1989) and how they plan to celebrate 30 years of pirates. They said they couldn't speak about any details but said the will be a movie soon. Rumours are about, the'll do that in 2017 when they finish the next Pirates of the Caribbien. Let's hope that's not a joke.

I wonder if they were talking about Pirates content in the LEGO Movie 2 (or even from the LEGO Batman or Ninjago movies).  Or if they were simply saying there will be Pirates of the Caribbean LEGO to accompany that new movie (and we already know there will be a D2C set).

I'm actually pretty doubtful of a LEGO Pirates movie, though it would be amazing.

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11 hours ago, Slegengr said:

This seems to be what most people forget when they complain about sets being small or disproportional to reality: TLG produces children's play sets, not MOC dioramas (which would be far too expensive to ever succeed in profitable sales!).

This is exactly my problem, and one of the things that inspired me to create this topic. I've read a lot of people complaining that the Imperial Flagship is a bad set. Really? For a set made by a toy company and not an MOC master-builder, I think it's actually pretty amazing. We give the Lego we enjoyed as children a free pass because of our nostalgic attachment to them, and now as adults we seem to have unrealistic expectations from a toy company. I'm willing to look at Lego with the same love as the child I used to be.

10 hours ago, x105Black said:

I wonder if they were talking about Pirates content in the LEGO Movie 2 (or even from the LEGO Batman or Ninjago movies).  Or if they were simply saying there will be Pirates of the Caribbean LEGO to accompany that new movie (and we already know there will be a D2C set).

I'm actually pretty doubtful of a LEGO Pirates movie, though it would be amazing.

I feel the same way... I'm not sure what Staslegomaster heard, but I'm taking this with a huge pinch of salt for now. They're making a NinjaGo movie, but NinjaGo is pretty much an evergreen theme at this point, and has a huge amount of mythology behind it. Pirates have only had about two years of releases in the last two decades, and there are no stories behind it.

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Hi, Slegengr, I agree with you almost completely. Balance betweem size and price is the main economic reason of how pirates look like. Small sets can be acurate, too to be more educational for children. Besides TLG understands the drawbacks which you mention. And sometimes separate sets can be combined together. For example, Jabba's castle - his dunjing and the palace itself. or 3 parts of ninjaga battle arena: mountain shrine, sceleton boaling etc.

Sorry, what does D2C mean? I've never heard that abbreviation.

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1 hour ago, David Thomsen said:

 I've read a lot of people complaining that the Imperial Flagship is a bad set. Really?

WHAT!!!  People complained about the Imperial Flagship?  :pir_mad: (I assume you're referring to 10210 and not 6271)

Finally a solider ship that can rival the Black Seas Barracuda and Skulls Eye Schooner!

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Hi, David Thompsen. Perhaps TLG can promise a few LEGO movies in future and fans' reaction will help them to understand what sets can be sold out faster, then they can call the other possible sets just rumours. It was so with the movie "The X-Files, !st class" part II. Besides pirates can be not in a separate movie but new rivals of ninjago.

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Mr Phes, The  Imperial Flagship is just outstanding. Its only drawback - paper, not cloth sails, as the above mentioned ships of the past had. I was lucky to win 10210 in 2011 when I became a winner i an AllRussia competition. After that I tried to try my luck in LEGO ideas. My first project was  my version of the 3masts Skull Eye Schooner. I called it  Grey Skull Frigate. So if you don't like The Imperial flagship support my ship.  I wish calm and deep waters to LEGO pirates movie.

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I missed out on the 10210 Imperial Flagship, but, from what I have seen of it in images and the instructions,  it is a spectacular set given all of my above considerations!  Many builders make MOC ships, especially here at Eurobricks, that are better, but the MOCs would not make good sets.  The 10210 fits all the criteria that I would think TLG applies: size to cost makes it profitable, adults also will be interested in the design since it is realistically designed rather than slightly cartoon-ish for children (Brick Bounty :tongue:), and it still seems very playable!

 

9 hours ago, Staslegomaster said:

Sorry, what does D2C mean? I've never heard that abbreviation.

D2C stands for "Direct to Consumer", which means that it is only sold through the LEGO company directly to the consumer and not through a separate retailer.  These sets are usually larger sets that seem to be aimed more towards adults with design and size/cost.

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On 28-10-2016 at 3:36 PM, Slegengr said:

D2C stands for "Direct to Consumer", which means that it is only sold through the LEGO company directly to the consumer and not through a separate retailer.  These sets are usually larger sets that seem to be aimed more towards adults with design and size/cost.

Thanks for your explanation. Do you think my  Grey Skull Frigate fill fit for D2C?

 

 

Some fans are not sure what I heard about LEGO pirate movir. Perhaps I still have the e-mail from LEGO service in which LEGO designers mention that movie and say they can't mention any details. If I find it, I'll quote it here.

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I personally love the imperial flagship! it was the one setthat I eyed for almost 6 years! I finally started to build it myself and it is just fantastic! the only thing I didn't like was the cage design on the top deck

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Oh boy, I never like any set design since they are designed for children. I rather make my own ''realstic'' models.

That being said I like new sets, new sets come with awesome new parts which make my models more awesome. :grin:

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I am not much of a set collector any more.  I do like that 2015 has bluecoats to complement the redcoats I bought in 2009.  Now I am properly equiped for a Tournament of Retribution.  So when is the next ToR?  :pir-classic:

If LEGO release some greencoats, it would be good for the Brethen of the Brick Seas. :wink:

 

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On 02.11.2016 at 0:02 AM, azog said:

I personally love the imperial flagship! it was the one setthat I eyed for almost 6 years! I finally started to build it myself and it is just fantastic! the only thing I didn't like was the cage design on the top deck

Why do designers always put twice as less guns as gunports- on all the ships as I know? I improved that on my LEGO ideas project - fans often think where to get more gun.

On 02.11.2016 at 5:35 AM, Captain Green Hair said:

Oh boy, I never like any set design since they are designed for children. I rather make my own ''realstic'' models.

That being said I like new sets, new sets come with awesome new parts which make my models more awesome. :grin:

As I once wrote to LEGO designers, even small and cheep sets can be created with lots of details  realistic and historically acurate to be more educational for children and more interesting for adults. I alwas try to do so.

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On 02.11.2016 at 0:33 PM, dr_spock said:

I am not much of a set collector any more.  I do like that 2015 has bluecoats to complement the redcoats I bought in 2009.  Now I am properly equiped for a Tournament of Retribution.  So when is the next ToR?  :pir-classic:

If LEGO release some greencoats, it would be good for the Brethen of the Brick Seas. :wink:

 

As far as I remember, greencoats were Armada officers in 1997. But unfortunately they had no epaulets which turns any coat into a military uniform. As for me a black shining Spanish helmet and a silver cuirass of those years are better than resent golden but not shining.

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