1980-Something-Space-Guy Posted September 27, 2016 I remember that glorious day in 2011 when it was announced both Marvel and DC licenses for Lego. It was my greatest Lego dream come true (although still a lot of the minifigs I want to see in Lego form haven't been made, looking at you FF and X-men). However, there were a lot of things I didn't understand about how things went down, and I have never been able to find much by researching into this. My understanding is that, initially, Lego had the license for Spider-man and Spider-man 2. How did they lose the license against the-brand-which-must-not-be-named for Spider-man 3? Was it because they wanted to pick up Batman? Or did they pick up Batman because they lost the Spider-man license? Why was the Batman theme discontinued in 2008? Did they lose the license for that? Then, what was the catalyst for Lego deciding to go for both of the licenses in 2011? How did they steal the Marvel license away from the-brand-which-must-not-be-named? How did they manage to get both Marvel and DC to be OK with Lego making toys for both under the "Super Heroes" theme? Finally, can we expect Lego to keep these licenses for many years to come, and never lose either to the-brand-which-must-not-be-named? It's funny, on the other side of this story, fans from the-brand-which-must-not-be-named regret the day that Lego got the Marvel license back, and dream of Lego losing the license again. My hope is that Lego's superior quality and status as the #1 toy maker in the world will allow them to keep both licenses for many years to come. 2011 was an incredible year for Lego. They managed to get licenses for Marvel, DC, and Lord of the Rings / The Hobbit, which they added to their already existing Star Wars line! Clearly they started being more aggressive in their search for licenses, and luckily to this day it looks like they're succeeding. I'm curious to learn what brought this newfound competitiveness to Lego, especially when a little more than a decade before they made almost no licensed sets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
just2good Posted September 28, 2016 I'm interested in the questions you raised as well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert8 Posted September 28, 2016 Most of this will be known as we do not have access to LEGO's license agreements The most interesting point in the Marvel/DC thing. LEGO even puts them together in catalogs and such... They even share subthemes like the mighty micros Can you even imagine what would happen if LEGO gets permission to make a crossover???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robianco Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Both Marvel and DC have had crossover events before and there have been writers and artists that have worked for both (although maybe not at the same time) so it wouldn't be a complete first. They're rivals but I think as far as the comics go there a healthy respect for each other. Batman has appeared with Punisher, Captain America and Daredevil while the JLA have appeared alongside the Avengers. They can't hate each other that much. I'd also be interested to know how licenses lapse or are lost and how the negotiations to get both DC and Marvel happened. Maybe one of them just didn't want the other to have a full line of toys so they agreed. Let's be honest... you don't want DC to have a full line made by Lego while your toys are being made by Megabloks or vice-versa. No matter how much money you make from a license surely there's a professional pride element whereby you know your toys are made by the number 2 or 3 company in the world and your competitor is made by the number one. Especially when that number one has the brand name that's associated with all brick based toys. Edited September 28, 2016 by Robianco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xboxtravis7992 Posted September 28, 2016 Megablocks was working with Sony Pictures just for the Spider-Man franchise. Disney held the rights to the Avengers films, comics, and cartoons. Disney allowed Lego to make Marvel sets at the same time Megablocks was making Spider-Man sets with Sony. In 2012 both Lego and Megablocks released different Spider-Man sets based on separate works (Sony's films for Megablocks/ Disney's cartoons for Lego). In 2014 it appears Sony moved their license back over to Lego since Lego made one polybag for the Amazing Spider-Man 2. Now that Disney has partial control over Spider-Man now, I bet the license is well secured in Lego's hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aanchir Posted September 28, 2016 These are very interesting questions. Unfortunately, I feel like the answers may be hard to come by, since LEGO often doesn't disclose the specific terms of their agreements with other companies. It's worth noting that the original Spider-Man license ended around when LEGO was attempting to get back on their feet after nearly going bankrupt in 2003. It could be that during this period of self-analysis and self-correction they found that the Spider-Man license was not making them enough money to be worth renewing it. Their possible reasons for giving up the Batman license are a little harder to pin down. But since both licenses were held for three years, it's not hard to imagine that it might've just been a case of the license agreements expiring and the LEGO Group, for whatever reason, choosing not to renew them at that time. It might've even been that LEGO simply didn't want to exhaust the novelty of those characters, something that's less of a concern with the Super Heroes brand since they don't have to focus specifically on one character or movie franchise. Even though the DC Super Heroes sets still focus extensively on Batman, they still ultimately have a wider range of characters and media to draw from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1980-Something-Space-Guy Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) On 9/28/2016 at 5:36 AM, Robianco said: Both Marvel and DC have had crossover events before and there have been writers and artists that have worked for both (although maybe not at the same time) so it wouldn't be a complete first. They're rivals but I think as far as the comics go there a healthy respect for each other. Batman has appeared with Punisher, Captain America and Daredevil while the JLA have appeared alongside the Avengers. They can't hate each other that much. I'd also be interested to know how licenses lapse or are lost and how the negotiations to get both DC and Marvel happened. Maybe one of them just didn't want the other to have a full line of toys so they agreed. Let's be honest... you don't want DC to have a full line made by Lego while your toys are being made by Megabloks or vice-versa. No matter how much money you make from a license surely there's a professional pride element whereby you know your toys are made by the number 2 or 3 company in the world and your competitor is made by the number one. Especially when that number one has the brand name that's associated with all brick based toys. Well, but I've heard their rivalry has been a little more serious in the present years. I think I remember someone saying that either Marvel or DC paid or gave something to sellers who would destroy comics of the other company, but that's just an anecdote I heard and I can't confirm a source. I agree that if I was a company I'd want my building toys to be made by Lego and not Megabloks because of the superior quality and status. 23 hours ago, xboxtravis7992 said: Megablocks was working with Sony Pictures just for the Spider-Man franchise. Disney held the rights to the Avengers films, comics, and cartoons. Disney allowed Lego to make Marvel sets at the same time Megablocks was making Spider-Man sets with Sony. In 2012 both Lego and Megablocks released different Spider-Man sets based on separate works (Sony's films for Megablocks/ Disney's cartoons for Lego). In 2014 it appears Sony moved their license back over to Lego since Lego made one polybag for the Amazing Spider-Man 2. Now that Disney has partial control over Spider-Man now, I bet the license is well secured in Lego's hands. Well, apparently they did have the license for the first films in the MCU, like this Hall of Armor from Iron Man 2 (that only includes 2 actual armors ). I heard something along the lines of Lego having a good relationship with Disney and Disney buying Marvel in 2009-2010 caused Disney not to renew Megablok's license in order to give it to Lego. Edited September 29, 2016 by BrickHat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrickSantorum Posted September 28, 2016 FWIW, DC and Marvel jointly hold the trademark to "Super Heroes." So I'm not even sure that the theme could be called "Super Heroes" if both brands weren't participating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aethersprite Posted September 29, 2016 I'm not sure about how it started, but hasn't it been confirmed that the Super Heroes theme is 'evergreen', i.e. scheduled to last indefinitely like Star Wars? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1980-Something-Space-Guy Posted September 29, 2016 22 hours ago, Aanchir said: It's worth noting that the original Spider-Man license ended around when LEGO was attempting to get back on their feet after nearly going bankrupt in 2003. It could be that during this period of self-analysis and self-correction they found that the Spider-Man license was not making them enough money to be worth renewing it. Their possible reasons for giving up the Batman license are a little harder to pin down. But since both licenses were held for three years, it's not hard to imagine that it might've just been a case of the license agreements expiring and the LEGO Group, for whatever reason, choosing not to renew them at that time. It might've even been that LEGO simply didn't want to exhaust the novelty of those characters, something that's less of a concern with the Super Heroes brand since they don't have to focus specifically on one character or movie franchise. Even though the DC Super Heroes sets still focus extensively on Batman, they still ultimately have a wider range of characters and media to draw from. You do provide some interesting context I had never thought about. It's a real shame that we never got to see Spider-man 3 sets. I really wanted that film version black suit spider-man. It's interesting to note that they made the Batman line to go along with the new Batman films, and they didn't stick with it until the final film of the trilogy, which is exactly what happened with Spider-man. Maybe they decided they were done after "The Dark Knight". 17 hours ago, BrickSantorum said: FWIW, DC and Marvel jointly hold the trademark to "Super Heroes." So I'm not even sure that the theme could be called "Super Heroes" if both brands weren't participating. As far as I know that just means nobody is allowed to use the term "Super Hero" in advertising a product, unless it's Marvel or DC. I found an interesting link about this. 1 hour ago, Aethersprite said: I'm not sure about how it started, but hasn't it been confirmed that the Super Heroes theme is 'evergreen', i.e. scheduled to last indefinitely like Star Wars? The Star Wars license usually has an expiration date. It's just that they keep renewing it. I don't think there is a truly "evergreen" license. It must all be contingent upon Lego making good sales and them liking Lego's products, which I hope is a safe bet for at least a couple of decades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aethersprite Posted September 30, 2016 9 hours ago, BrickHat said: The Star Wars license usually has an expiration date. It's just that they keep renewing it. I don't think there is a truly "evergreen" license. It must all be contingent upon Lego making good sales and them liking Lego's products, which I hope is a safe bet for at least a couple of decades. You're right; which is why I put 'evergreen' in inverted commas! It's not evergreen per se in that it lasts forever. The license would need to be renewed time and again, of course. But it's 'evergreen' because the license is expected to be renewed every time it's expiring. I can't remember where I'd seen it, but I recall that there's an article somewhere labelling the Super Heroes theme 'evergreen' like Star Wars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1980-Something-Space-Guy Posted September 30, 2016 15 hours ago, Aethersprite said: You're right; which is why I put 'evergreen' in inverted commas! It's not evergreen per se in that it lasts forever. The license would need to be renewed time and again, of course. But it's 'evergreen' because the license is expected to be renewed every time it's expiring. I can't remember where I'd seen it, but I recall that there's an article somewhere labelling the Super Heroes theme 'evergreen' like Star Wars. Oh OK, got it! Well, it's a shame that it looks like we won't really know for sure a lot of these details in the foreseeable future. I wish there was some interview of some sorts with someone at Lego about these things, but it really looks like there hasn't been any. Their press releases don't really say much either. I was hoping the community here at EB would have some insider knowledge about all of this, but alas it looks like we'll have to be satisfied with speculating. There's been some interesting theories here, though! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aethersprite Posted October 1, 2016 8 hours ago, BrickHat said: Oh OK, got it! Well, it's a shame that it looks like we won't really know for sure a lot of these details in the foreseeable future. I wish there was some interview of some sorts with someone at Lego about these things, but it really looks like there hasn't been any. Their press releases don't really say much either. I was hoping the community here at EB would have some insider knowledge about all of this, but alas it looks like we'll have to be satisfied with speculating. There's been some interesting theories here, though! Given the popularity of Super Heroes - not just in Lego sets, but in movies and merchandise in general - I wouldn't worry about the theme ending any time soon. IIRC Star Wars just got renewed recently, so that's not ending any time soon, either! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobb Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) In 2009 two lego designers (Mark Stafford and I don't remember the other one..) got a hold of a special DeLorean. With that device they could travel to the near future and discover the upcoming popularity of the superhero genre. They travelled back to 2009, but it took them a year to convince Jørgen Vig Knudstorp that these would be viable licences to aquire. (the Delorean was destroyed, but they aquired the designs of a certain Hottub from John Cusack). Luckily they pulled it off and we are were we are today. Edited October 1, 2016 by Cobb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1980-Something-Space-Guy Posted October 1, 2016 13 hours ago, Cobb said: In 2009 two lego designers (Mark Stafford and I don't remember the other one..) got a hold of a special DeLorean. With that device they could travel to the near future and discover the upcoming popularity of the superhero genre. They travelled back to 2009, but it took them a year to convince Jørgen Vig Knudstorp that these would be viable licences to aquire. (the Delorean was destroyed, but they aquired the designs of a certain Hottub from John Cusack). Luckily they pulled it off and we are were we are today. I guess that's why they are so secretive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
