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Didumos69

[TIP] Sturdifying Balloon Tire (94.8 x 44 R)

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My experience with the LEGO 94.8 x 44 R Balloon tires (54120) is that they are quite sloppy and noisy. I use them for my Steppenwolf, which weighs a little more than 2kg, that's about 500gr per tire. When I move the vehicle around I can hear the tires reshaping and refitting all the time. It makes a strange grinding noise which I find quite annoying.

A pure Lego way to make them less sloppy is to insert a LEGO 94.2mm D. x 22mm Motorcycle Racing Tread tire (88516) as a kind of inner tube. It adds extra tension to the tire, as if it was filled with more air. The effect is constant over the entire tire and still allows for some reshaping.

After playing around with the tires on a flat surface for a while I noticed they ride a lot lighter too, with far less resistance. I can imagine this could also be of use for RC trial trucks to avoid these tires from severe misshaping under heavy circumstances, causing them to run off the rims completely.

EDIT: As a nice side effect, this solution also prevents the rim from slipping inside the tire, something that has actually been reported for this tire. The motor tire expands the balloon tire slightly - diameter increases by approx. 3mm - which causes the sides of the tire to be pulled inwards slightly. This in turn causes the edges of the tire to induce more grip on the edges of the rim.

 

Edited by Didumos69

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That's an interesting and clever solution. This was one of my favorite tires, and I first found it in the 4x4 set. I might be trying what you suggest.

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On 23-9-2016 at 6:20 PM, BrickHat said:

That's an interesting and clever solution. This was one of my favorite tires, and I first found it in the 4x4 set. I might be trying what you suggest.

It's certainly worth trying. After playing around with them on a flat surface for a while I noticed they ride a lot lighter too, with far less resistance. You could compare it with more tire pressure. I can imagine this could also be of use for RC trial trucks to avoid these tires from severe misshaping under heavy circumstances, causing them to run off the rims completely.

Edited by Didumos69

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What also works great is putting 7 tyres (only the tyres no rims) 30.4x14 VR Inside the 98.4x44 tyre with the opening towards the rim. I don't know where I read this, but it was in a forum or building instruction.

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Interesting indeed, yet, I am still  a huge proponent of third party tires.  I think LEGO tires are not worth the save.  A+ for effort though.....

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10 hours ago, vliet said:

What also works great is putting 7 tyres (only the tyres no rims) 30.4x14 VR Inside the 98.4x44 tyre with the opening towards the rim. I don't know where I read this, but it was in a forum or building instruction.

Good to know! There are probably more ways to fill the tire with soft LEGO pieces. What I like about my solution is that it only adds extra tension to the tire, as if it was filled with more air. The effect is constant over the entire tire and still allows for some reshaping.

7 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Interesting indeed, yet, I am still  a huge proponent of third party tires.  I think LEGO tires are not worth the save.  A+ for effort though.....

Thanks! To be honest I have been looking for the right third party tire first. This solution has partly to do with all the images not showing in the third party tire thread right now :wink:. What I like about this LEGO balloon tire is that it's contact surface is a bit curved, just like you see with bias-ply tires on classic cars. Such tires may not be very realistic these days but it does allow for a perfect operation - or demonstration - of the active camber angle incorporated in the Steppenwolf suspension. A hard tire with a flat contact surface wants to stay flat when you compress the suspension.

Edited by Didumos69

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This is a neat solution, love it! :thumbup:

Could you please check wether this also prevents the rim from slipping inside the tire? Try to check wether someone else asked this already, but can't find it... :classic:

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On 9/24/2016 at 11:41 AM, 2LegoOrNot2Lego... said:

Could you please check wether this also prevents the rim from slipping inside the tire? Try to check wether someone else asked this already, but can't find it... :classic:

As a matter of fact it does! I just checked and I managed to rotate the rim in the tire without having the motor tire inserted, which required quite some torque though. After inserting the motor tire I was no longer able to slip the rim inside the tire. I think the explanation is that the motor tire expands the balloon tire slightly - diameter increases by approx. 3mm - which causes the sides of the tire to be pulled inwards slightly. This in turn causes the edges of the tire to induce more grip on the edges of the rim.

Edited by Didumos69

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Brilliant Idea here. Looks great, its simple and yet effective. You certainly wont get the same effect with bubble warp or a soft foam insert inside the tire. When it comes to the rubber on the Lego Tire I notice its like a mixture between a soft rubber and hard plastic and I say this by comparing the Lego tire against a soft rubber tire along with a hard plastic tire I have for RC cars. 

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7 hours ago, Boxerlego said:

You certainly wont get the same effect with bubble warp or a soft foam insert inside the tire.

I think so too. It will prove very hard to add tire pressure by filling the tire with soft material. And if it doesn't add tire pressure it will probably only add friction as the reshaping under the vehicle's weight will absorb more energy.

I know a little bit about off-road bicycle tires. The best performing tires are tires that absorb the least of energy while reshaping. Such tires - usually with a thin treat - can be ridden with low pressure with a relatively small performance drop. This is very convenient on gravel-like surfaces.

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3 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

I think so too. It will prove very hard to add tire pressure by filling the tire with soft material. And if it doesn't add tire pressure it will probably only add friction as the reshaping under the vehicle's weight will absorb more energy.

I know a little bit about off-road bicycle tires. The best performing tires are tires that absorb the least of energy while reshaping. Such tires - usually with a thin treat - can be ridden with low pressure with a relatively small performance drop. This is very convenient on gravel-like surfaces.

That is very informative. I was wondering a few months ago why something like that wasn't done. Thanks!

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I have come up with a non Lego way of doing this, if you have any 3rd party inner tire foam, if you put it in the tire they gip the rims great, have almost no slip, and firm them up a lot.

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45 minutes ago, JJ2 said:

I have come up with a non Lego way of doing this, if you have any 3rd party inner tire foam, if you put it in the tire they gip the rims great, have almost no slip, and firm them up a lot.

So apparently inserting tire foam can serve the same purpose. I suppose you mean with firming them up it actually reduces the constant reshaping of the tires.

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Does this also work with the Offroad Bike Tires? from set 42007 i believe

 

Edited by KikoTube

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1 hour ago, Didumos69 said:

I suppose you mean with firming them up it actually reduces the constant reshaping of the tires.

Yes thats what I mean.

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3 hours ago, KikoTube said:

Does this also work with the Offroad Bike Tires? from set 42007 i believe

I think not, because that tire has over 100mm radius, but I'll try and let you know.

Edited by Didumos69

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Just now, Didumos69 said:

I think not, because that tire has over 100mm radius, but I'll try and let you know.

thank you

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47 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

I think not, because that tire has over 100mm radius, but I'll try and let you know.

That should be 100mm diameter of course.

Edited by Didumos69

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On 9/23/2016 at 2:11 PM, vliet said:

What also works great is putting 7 tyres (only the tyres no rims) 30.4x14 VR Inside the 98.4x44 tyre with the opening towards the rim. I don't know where I read this, but it was in a forum or building instruction.

Just to inform you, ZBLJ on this forum came up with that idea initially. It's great that so many people are coming up with solutions for their tires.

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3 hours ago, KikoTube said:

Does this also work with the Offroad Bike Tires? from set 42007 i believe

I tried but I can't get the Moto Cross Bike tire (11957) straightened inside the 94.8 x 44 R Balloon tire (54120). It's too big :pir-cry_sad:

800x600.jpg

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Just now, Didumos69 said:

I tried but I can't get the Moto Cross Bike tire (11957) straightened inside the 94.8 x 44 R Balloon tire (54120). It's too big :pir-cry_sad:

800x600.jpg

Sad for me :) 

i have 2 Motorcycle and 2 Cross tires ... 

But thanks for the try ?

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