LEPIN brings out Monster Fighters HAUNTED HOUSE (16007)

[Jedi-Bendu]

On 7-10-2016 at 7:02 PM, AFOLguy1970 said:

I can understand the temptation to purchase a clone at a low price, especially when it is something no longer in production and off the charts expensive in the aftermarket.  In the "Shameful Confessions" thread, I even stated as much.  I gave some serious thought to acquiring every modular that I missed out on in my dark ages.  However, something about the thievery of AFOL designs and MOCs really has rubbed me the wrong way.  Now I would not buy even a Galaxy Explorer from them if they made one.  When someone purchases a set from Lepin, they are supporting a company that is stealing designs from others, whether it is Lego or an individual designer.  I would plead that no one purchase a Lepin set from this moment forward.  Every profit they make can be reinvested into stealing yet another design from somewhere.  Even if Lego loses the lawsuit in China, Lepin could still be defeated by not supporting them.  Again, I understand the appeal of having a chance to own a replica of something that has long been considered to be out of reach.  In this case, doing the right thing will not be easy.  

This.

PLUS: if more people buy Lepin instead of Lego, Lego's profits will decline. Worst case scenario: they will stop with IPs or stop expanding by buying new IPs....or stop making new parts/molds.

There's a lot Lego can improve and I've always criticised them for a lot of things.....but the quality they deliver is excellent. They invest, they are creative...instead of stealing ideas.

[Captain Pirate Man]

I don't disagree with all of you that it is illegal, and laws exist for a reason. Is Lepin crossing a line that they shouldn't be crossing? Yes. Should Lego take action if that's what they feel they need to do? Yes. Lepin has CLEARLY stolen a lot for Lego here, I don't for one second deny that. I am by no means defending any of that action, I guess that message hasn't been portrayed effectively by me.

 

I guess where we differ is that my desire to get affordable "versions" of these RETIRED (I cant stress that enough) is not above buying some of these knockoffs. Why? Because I am creating extremely large MOCS in my basement and these sets will help complete my vision. When I got out of my dark ages (about two and half years ago) these sets where already long gone, and we'll out of any reasonable price range. I have gone back and purchased many modearatly expensive retired sets (QAR, Imperial Trading Post, Eldorado Fortress, Rock Island Refuge, multiple castles) just to name a few. So I have gone above the original price to get retired sets, but the difference is NONE of these are going for HUGE money. Take The Imperial Flagship for example, that thing is so expensive that I can buy 3 Or 4 other LARGER sets for that amount of money. I just can't logically talk myself into that set. So I either decided to find a way to brick link it (still $300 range, and a lot of work) or go without it. But for someone like me, having THAT set absent from my MOC seems hollow. That's were Lepin stepped in. You might think I'm wrong for choosing this route, and you are entitled to that opinion, just as I am entitled to make a LEGAL purchase online. 

 

Which that's where the line is IMO, what I did is legal. I read someone say "what does that say to my child if I tell them I bought fake Lego?" You did nothing wrong, why do you feel the need to justify that action? Its called be a smart shopper IMO. "I bought fake Lego son, because it was the best finacial option." What Lepin did is stealing, yes, but not what I did. Sure you could argue "you supported a company that stole designs." and you would not be wrong. But how many of you have purchased products that were made in sweat shops by children? Probably a lot more than you realize. So again, why even bother going down that rabbit hole? Everybody is guilty of something.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Captain Pirate Man

[Adamskii]

Lego is a building system that demands replication. They publish books on replicating their ideas. Kids all over the world try to build things they have seen others build because that what Lego is, Unlike a plastic model plane where you have to paint it etc and no two could ever be considered identical, Lego solves that as anyone can copy an idea provided they have the bricks. That is the principle Lego is founded on. You do not have to buy a Lego set to build that model. I can buy all the Lego in the world from Bricklink and never buy a Brick from Lego, and still go and build every kit Lego ever made. According to some, I would have stolen the IP of Lego designers. If I onsell those assembled bricks as complete Lego sets, using Lego pictures of those sets, apparently I am doing the wrong thing. I think allot of AFOL would have assembled sets from bricklink in one way or another (Millenium Falcon for example - So many threads on this site dedicated to just that - No argument about using Lego design/IP to build those sets?) and if they sell them have they not profited from Lego IP ? 

So what sets Lepin apart  from an average AFOL? 2 things I can see, the sheer magnitude of their operation - but where do you decide Joe average doing 3 or sets a year versus Chinese corporation as being illegal? If it is a principle you argue, then scale should not form part of the argument, Like saying someone was a little bit stolen from, you either were or weren't. That's the problem with principle, it has to be black and white, not making exceptions.

The other thing that sets Lepin apart, is they have decided to not buy the bricks and assemble the sets, but manufacture them themselves. This was not a problem before apparently with Clone brands - because the quality was basically rubbish. The quality of Lepin however is remarkable, and could very easily be incorporated into Lego set MOC's and never be realised by the audience they were looking at a clone. (how long before this raises it head at Lego conventions?) Now the patent has expired on Lego bricks, So copying them is probably not illegal. No one bothered when it was Enlighten or Sluban or whoever the clone brands were as they were not in the same quality league. Suddenly people are taking notice of a very cheap alternative to Lego that is getting dangerosly close in the quality department. What if  they start making Lego style bricks that is superior?  But again IF the copying of the brick is not illegal then that sure cannot form part of a reason to avoid them ? (or censor them).

Lego does not have a serious competitor in the marketplace. They are a monopoly. That is not a healthy thing for the consumer. Having brands like Mega Blox is good but their range is very small by comparison. Lepin have directly challenged that monopoly and we should see how serious Lego take that challenge by their reply. So far the lawsuit set for a year from now seams like a whole lot less of a response than what some would expected. 

 

[agrof]

We have fine conversation with arguments in depth here, this is a good thing. 

@Adamski

I think Your thinking is a bit twisted and forced. It is the scale and the drive which makes a difference. An AFOL or kid will replicate LEGO sets for FUN - and does it once or twice. Lepin replicates them for making MONEY - and does it in mass production.

LEGO's advantage furthermore is being open source, inspires to creativity, and to discover new things You can build (see 3 in 1 creator sets). Are this values to be find in LEPIN? Absolutely not. There is no any added value in their products. Nothing. They not even bothered to create an own logo. Replacing letters doesn't count, it is the same size logo, same format, same colors, same lettering. And we all know why: it must be so close to original, that it misleads the people, us. On purpose. They just don't want more, than utilize LEGO's history and all the values and promotional advantages they have built up in the last decades. Here comes general ethic in the discussion.

If someone made intellectual value before, and knows how much time and passion goes in it, than there is no question about why it is destructive. I know, I did, and not for money.

Honestly, I don't mind that they release retired sets, I was also tempted as I saw them. But copying fresh sets in that amount as they do, is clearly broke the symphathy from my side. As the situation now, I take my mature head, and say: things must be stopped at a certain point, I don't need to feed my greediness, I will not be happier due to having some materials more, believing: "yes I made a good (cheap) business". I know, I would lie to myself, and would feel bad later.

I would be happy to see competition with LEGO, and in good quality probably I even would combine the two systems. (I made actually with Oxford bricks, they do original designs and have good quality bricks.)

Cheers!

Edited October 9, 2016 by agrof

[CaptvirgilHilts]

The thing to note is that they only are legally going after Lepin, not the other manufacturers that have bootlegged sets for years now. This likely points to something specific Lepin did and I imagine it would be a certain IP holder that was unhappy over the reproduction of their set and I would hazard a guess it was also a high value set. The Ghostbusters HQ is a probability but I would bet that Porsche was unhappy about the GT3 RS getting duplicated especially on the scale and the quality of the packaging.

[Jedi-Bendu]

Ok, here we go........

I wrote an article (in Dutch) about Lepin (it was published 2 days ago: https://www.starwarsawakens.nl/toyscollectibles/lepin-vs-lego-clone-wars/)

I was curious, wanted to experience the whole thing myself, wanted to write an article about it and I can safely say: never, ever again. Call me an tree hugging idealist, but giving money to a company that steals is wrong.

The article was posted in some groups/boards and then something occurred. Some people (Lepin fans) got pretty hostile. I was a Lego-lover who only wants to bash clone sets, I never really tried a Lepin set......and I also got some other 'not so friendly' messages.

They claim Lepin is the same quality (yeah, Luke's hairpiece is great! And look at that translucent helmet.....o, wait...)

When confronted with the question what they think about the fact Lepin steals IP's they go silent......or reply with the stupidest of all replies: "well, millions download movies etcetera....so...". Yeah, that completely justifies everything!

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I have criticised Lego a lot (C&D mails, Insult on Hoth, No Bespin sets!!!) but d***, they invest in fantastic IP's, produce/design great sets and their products are of great quality.

O, and I never got hostile reactions from LEGO fans as well...

 

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by Jedi-Bendu

[Sebiron]

How is the ink quality of those minifigs? Shit like SY and Pogo?  Or better ? 

Edited October 9, 2016 by Sebiron

[Robianco]

1 hour ago, Sebiron said:

How is the ink quality of those minifigs? Shit like SY and Pogo?  Or better ? 

Oh come on... we know for a fact that SY and DLP have good ink quality. Pogo, Xinh, Bella, Dargo, JLB... even Decool... are all bordering on crap most of the time but if there's one thing that SY and DLP (probably because they're closely linked) have got right is the quality of their print.

We can probably put Lepin's figures down in the 'utter crap' pile. Whatever kind of work they're putting into getting their brick quality up to scratch everything I've seen people say about their figures have been pretty dire.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Robianco

[Big G]

Judge for yourselves how they look, these are the figures from the Lepin Haunted House set.  I truly have no opinion either way as I've never really cared about the minifigures in any set.  Didn't have any of them in my Lego when I was a kid so I've never got caught up in the hype over them.  I know others do care passionately about their figures so here they are

and

 

One thing I've noticed is concerning the female figure.  The torso to lower body clutch is abysmal, my cat can come up to sniff it and the cat's nose will knock it apart.  The rest of them are pretty tight.  The figures come COMPLETELY disassembled, you have to connect the legs to the waist, push the hands into the arms and attach the arms to the torso

The "Frankenstein's" upper skull is only offset from his face because I wasn't paying attention to exactly how I lined it up when I put it on

[Sebiron]

I cant judge with pics,,,,

Just wonder if the print rub off easily like SY, DLP, Pogo, or not.

[Big G]

16 minutes ago, Sebiron said:

I cant judge with pics,,,,

Just wonder if the print rub off easily like SY, DLP, Pogo, or not.

if a pair of 16 megapixel photos can't help you form an opinion to the quality then I can only suggest you buy a set yourself if you really NEED to find out.  For me they will just sit on a shelf in front of the house for 1 month a year, the rest of the time they'll be put away with the rest of the family's halloween decorations, so it's a non-issue

At the end of the day, they're toys.  I've bashed paint off of so many matchbox and hot wheels cars in my life that most of them seemed to have more silver color than any other, but it never stopped me enjoying them 

Edited October 9, 2016 by Big G

[Sebiron]

OK , just for display.

It is bad if I say I like take or play with my figs without the fear that the print rub off? 

Am I the only one here? 

 

[crossmr]

I have several SY figures that my daughter regularly plays with, the print has never rubbed off on any of them.

 

[Big G]

6 minutes ago, Sebiron said:

OK , just for display.

It is bad if I say I like take or play with my figs without the fear that the print rub off? 

Am I the only one here? 

 

Not at all, you're entitled to do with your possessions whatever you wish.  I just mean I can't offer any more help or guidance than posting those photos, except suggesting you find your own to test the quality of.  There are always going to be people with their own agenda telling horror stories that they've heard, I didn't want to do that.  Instead I wanted to give people an opportunity to see the quality level of what I have received in the set I bought.  

People who collect minifigures know a lot more about them and what to look for than I do, and different people probably have different features of the figures that they want to concentrate on.when assessing their worth.

If my earlier response came across as too harsh I apologize, it wasn't my intention.  I've just spent the last 5 minutes rubbing the torso of the female figure between my thumb and first finger (and consequently received a real weird stare from my wife that made me wonder if she's thinking she's going to need to seek out professional therapy) and I can say that the print on the torso appears unchanged and my digits don't appear to have any ink stains on them.

[Captain Pirate Man]

I will give a more detailed account when I get my sets. I have purchased sets from Enlighten, Kazi, Aussini, Sluban, mega bloks, and of course Lego. I actually did a pretty detailed minifigure comparison video a while ago (it's on my YouTube channel, link in my signiture). 

So I look forward to seeing how these Lepin figures stack up. I can say with absolute certainty that all the other clone brands I mentioned (excluding MB) the figures were utter crap. Enlighten were the best of the bunch, but still well behind Lego. So if these Lepin figures are better than Enlighten (which from Big G's assessment, they appear to be) I will be satisfied. 

Honestly anyone that buys knockoff sets shouldn't be doing so for the minifigs anyways, it's for the sets. If you find the minifigs "passable" that's really a bonus from my experience. The minifigs are usually the weakest part of knockoff sets. I literally have a junk bin for all my knockoff figs, never to see the light of day. I might have sets out on display, but never the minifigs. Gotta draw the line somewhere. ?

Edited October 10, 2016 by Captain Pirate Man

[Big G]

yes, even to my untrained eye the figures are better than Enlighten's.  For the past few years I've had an Enlighten Christmas train around the tree (no more of that now my son has the latest winter village train) and the Santa that came with that set was appalling even to someone with self diagnosed Minifigure Apathy Syndrome.  I'm not sure if the new train has a Santa figure included but I think we have 3 or 4 Lego versions from one of the seasonal vignettes I bought extras of last year 

Edited October 10, 2016 by Big G

[quark12000]

5 hours ago, Big G said:

The "Frankenstein's" upper skull is only offset from his face because I wasn't paying attention to exactly how I lined it up when I put it on

Frankenstein's monster or creature.  Frankenstein is the name of the doctor who created the monster.

 

Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine.  ;)

[Florian_Wayne]

17 hours ago, quark12000 said:

Frankenstein's monster or creature.  Frankenstein is the name of the doctor who created the monster.

 

Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine.  ;)

Frankenstein ist the name of the castle here in Germany too.

[H3ssian]

My ex kinda looked like Frankenstein's monster when she woke up in the mornings with no makeup :P

[Adamskii]

SO they have brought out another Modular, I will not post a pic, or a link, But I have seen the box art and pictures on one of their official pages. This time it is the natural history museum corner modular MOC. I think this was an Ideas offereing ? That's 2 now including STarbucks. 

 

 

 

[agrof]

I just googled it, and found this comment on Facebook, by the MOC designer:

Quote

Jme Wheeler: I designed this building. I put a tremendous amount of work, time, and money into designing and building this, and it's disgusting to me that this company feels they have the right to produce it and make a profit from it. I implore all of you who buy these sets to stop supporting a company that steals not just from other companies, but from individuals.

No further comment needed.

[AFOLguy1970]

Honestly, I think Lepin will impact more people than originally thought.  It is not just TLG and the designers who had their ideas stolen who will suffer.  I see at least two more nasty side effects

(1) Brick conventions:  It is my understanding that MOCs are only supposed to be made from Lego parts per standing rule.  How long will it be until someone's display is discovered to have bootleg parts in it, whether they are aware of it or not?  Imagine being told you have to remove your MOC because some rogue parts are discovered on your 20,000 part masterpiece.   

(2) Bricklink and Ebay:  It is only a matter of time until someone places an order, thinks they are getting Lego, and guess what shows up?  If you are a buyer, now not only do you have to count your parts, you have to make sure every one of them is a real Lego part.  If you are a seller, and you are getting your stock from anywhere other than official Lego outlets or sets, you need to verify authenticity.  I have a feeling that bootleg parts are going to pollute the inventory real soon.  If you see a sand green 1x8 going for less than a dollar a part, be afraid.  Be very afraid.  

[Robianco]

With brick parts there's still the obvious thing of it having lego stamped onto each stud. If it doesn't have that then it's not Lego. It's other parts that don't have the Lego stamp in the same way... such as I mentioned on the Falcon. The levers on there as well as the Technics yellow angled bricks don't have those obvious markers so they might be easy to swap out without anyone noticing.

[Captain Pirate Man]

I am also concerned about fake parts getting mixed in with real, but I'm more concerned with brick link. I wouldn't be surprised if some sellers are already selling fake parts on there. So I would be careful about ordering parts that can't be easily identified.

[Jedi-Bendu]

8 hours ago, agrof said:

I just googled it, and found this comment on Facebook, by the MOC designer:

No further comment needed.

I feel bad for him.

Lepin are just crooks, bums, thieves. I'm fed up with them and their fans.