LEPIN brings out Monster Fighters HAUNTED HOUSE (16007)

[Robianco]

LEPIN 10179 Falcon is not released yet

Not yet... but it's on presale and will probably be shipping soon. Even with many of them being available I still don't think an original 10179 will drop in value because of it.

It's the use of the rigging parts, radar dish and levers where studs are hidden or don't exist that may cause an issue with people selling the rigging and levers as a cheaper alternative. Those three parts along with the yellow technic beams and sticker come to a combined cost of £800 + shipping on BL.

It's the secondary market on those parts that might take a hit but not a complete 10179 itself.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Robianco

[crossmr]

Its not anywhere near that easy. The LEGO inventory system is insanely complex. There is cost for storing bricks for old sets and the logistical complexity of being ready to produce more of all the old sets on demand, it just doesn't make any sense for the potential profits. Right now they are sometimes unable to produce enough of current sets so they'd have no motivation to dedicate bandwidth to old sets less likely to sell.

There is a cost, but that cost is only increased by specialty parts unique to a set. They already have pick a brick, which covers a lot of the parts. The only thing they need to do is increase its range for out of print sets to include their specialty parts, and possibly decide on whether or not to keep minifigure prints in stock or not. If they just add those, the rest can be managed from the existing inventory. Many of the parts in sets are used in many sets both past and present. Especially since the older sets were simpler, it would probably be very little trouble for them to offer almost complete older sets (perhaps without the minifigures) and a sticker sheet instead of the printed bricks.

Let's look at something like this:

https://www.toysperiod.com/img/cache/ec/800x600/u21384r274y2c454w2b4t2n2s5h4c4r2b4w244q2b4v2v2.jpg

What pieces aren't really made anymore?

The thin verticles that made up the garage door, the bikes, and the base plate? That's about it right?

Those bikes were common back then I believe, they appeared in several sets, and I'm sure people would enjoy having them again. Same with those doors, I believe those were used in a few sets and the only really unique thing is the base plate. But it's also a versatile plate that could go well with a road series. Good for building a house on with a garage if you're into more traditional building projects.

So basically by running 3 pieces, they could offer that set through pick a brick without the minifigures. Now the figures themselves had a standard head, which I think they could have no problem running again and sell out forever. People would love the traditional head, and the legs were all black, no prints. So all the printing was 2 torsos. So for 2 torsos, an old style hat and helmet, and you have all the minifigures.

So that's a total of 9 additional pieces and you'd have that set and many like it available. very few sets had truly unique pieces back then.

[Sebiron]

So maybe now it s the good time to sell my genuine 10179 before LEPIN arrive...

(And I will gain a lot of space)

[quark12000]

Do you know what color plates the retired sets (CC, MS, GG, FB, GE, and TH) use? And could I substitute one 32x32 for two 16x32 plates?

Anyone, please?

Edited September 19, 2016 by quark12000

[Aanchir]

There is a cost, but that cost is only increased by specialty parts unique to a set. They already have pick a brick, which covers a lot of the parts. The only thing they need to do is increase its range for out of print sets to include their specialty parts, and possibly decide on whether or not to keep minifigure prints in stock or not. If they just add those, the rest can be managed from the existing inventory. Many of the parts in sets are used in many sets both past and present. Especially since the older sets were simpler, it would probably be very little trouble for them to offer almost complete older sets (perhaps without the minifigures) and a sticker sheet instead of the printed bricks.

Let's look at something like this:

https://www.toysperi...244q2b4v2v2.jpg

What pieces aren't really made anymore?

The thin verticles that made up the garage door, the bikes, and the base plate? That's about it right?
Those bikes were common back then I believe, they appeared in several sets, and I'm sure people would enjoy having them again. Same with those doors, I believe those were used in a few sets and the only really unique thing is the base plate. But it's also a versatile plate that could go well with a road series. Good for building a house on with a garage if you're into more traditional building projects.

So basically by running 3 pieces, they could offer that set through pick a brick without the minifigures. Now the figures themselves had a standard head, which I think they could have no problem running again and sell out forever. People would love the traditional head, and the legs were all black, no prints. So all the printing was 2 torsos. So for 2 torsos, an old style hat and helmet, and you have all the minifigures.

So that's a total of 9 additional pieces and you'd have that set and many like it available. very few sets had truly unique pieces back then.

Your link doesn't work but through a little Google-fu I figured you were talking about this set. Looking at its inventory, there are at least 16 molds in that set that are discontinued and have no direct current equivalent:

• 1x4x5 glass door
• 1x4x5 wooden door
• 1x4 hinge plate
• sunroof plate
• sunroof glass
• tail rotor holder
• tail rotor
• top rotor holder
• top rotor
• 2x2 wheel assembly
• tire
• 1x4x5 window frame
• 1x4x5 window glass
• baseplate
• 4x4 wedge with left cutout
• 4x4 wedge with right cutout

For reference's sake, that means re-releasing this set would require introducing more molds than this year's entire first wave of Ninjago sets.

"Specialty parts unique to a set" are not remotely the only cost associated with re-releasing a set. LEGO keeps their number of specific elements closely in check due to limited production space. That means any part, even if it's just a recolor of a common, basic part, has to be able to justify its existence, because even putting a common part in a once-common color back into production effectively means taking a part from more recent sets OUT of production. "The existing inventory", as you put it, isn't just parts being pumped into warehouses with no particular purpose in mind, They are parts being produced specifically for use in current sets.

And what makes you think there'd be a market for bringing back a set like that? In the early naughts LEGO created a line called "LEGO Legends" focusing on re-releases of beloved discontinued sets. Like many lines from the early naughts, it was a flop. And some of those were sets that are still revered by AFOLs to this day, like the Black Seas Barracuda and Metroliner. Not sets that have zero meaningful advantages over their modern counterparts. Right now demand for that Police Command Base set on BrickLink is negligible — the 24 used copies on BrickLink are selling for an average of just under $45. That's less than what it cost new ($27.99, the equivalent of $62.82 in today's money)!

And this isn't just a question of "can this make money?" It's "can this make MORE money than a new set?" Because bringing back any old set means diverting space and resources on the production line that would normally go towards new sets. A modern LEGO police station suited to the tastes of today's kids will ALWAYS make more money than a small, ugly police station that's 30 years obsolete. And a modern police station is generally cheaper to make, too, since you don't have to create over a dozen "new" molds just to put it on shelves. The handful of people who would appreciate obsolete parts being re-introduced are nowhere near as significant as the thousands of kids and adults who will appreciate new molds that create meaningful, genuinely new building and play opportunities.

[Captain Pirate Man]

Now Lepin is doing Tower Orthanc. I have the real one, so it's not of interest to me, but I thought someone else was interested.

It really looks like they are going back and doing all of Legos big sets. I wonder how far back they are planning on going? Like I wonder if some of the castles and other sets from the 80s will get a Lepin redo?

[Borex]

Lepin monorails? Forestmen? Classic space sets?

[agrof]

Conspiration theory anyone?

What if Lepin is an unpromoted / hidden part of the LEGO Group, which is dedicated for a special market, with slightly lower quality, for much affordable local price?

This is not unusal practice for different industires (automotive, IT, ...), so it is a common move to prevent not only piracy in countries, where customs or ideology (or both) would block otherwise the expansion.

Actually, whatever, don't take this line too serious!

[quark12000]

Well, since no one was answering me about the baseplates, I did a little more research and found out this information: Café Corner and Green Grocer both use two 16x32 green plates, Market Street and Fire Brigade both use two 16x32 dark grey plates, and Grand Emporium and Town Hall both use 32x32 tan plates. Further investigation into the instructions doesn't show me any reason I can't use a 32x32 green on CC and GG. The green and tan 32x32 are readily available, but I think I'll have to use Bricklink or Brick Owl to get the grey plates.

As I said, the Pet Shop (which is still being produced, so get it from Lego!) is actually two buildings, a brownstone townhouse and a pet shop with an apartment above, so it requires two 16x32 plates. However, I don't see anything in the instructions for the retired sets that necessitates using two plates, unless I'm missing something?

[lanesteele240]

Is anyone suggesting that LEGO keep every set on the shelves all the time? That's the first I've heard anyone say that. But I think most would agree and support what they are currently doing with the Star Ship, re-releasing updated versions every so often.

And LEGO CAN compete with knockoffs, they are the price makers, the knock offs are the price takers. TLG can undercut current prices, even if it results in short term losses, as a method of putting a barrier into he market for competitor/knock offs.

And finally, the 12 week wait for knock off production of current releases is no longer true, as witnessed by the Spider Man Bridge Set, and a few other super hero sets.

My only recommendation for users buying LEPIN modulars is to buy the LEGO 32x32 or 32x16 base thin baseplates. That way if you have any legit modulars they will fit together.

LEPIN's modulars come with the 3-4mm LEGO base.

Nobody is sugesting that But it would be awesome if i could get 95% of a set on pick a brick. Would it really hurt them to have 1x6 and 1x4 sand green bricks on hand at pick a brick. Instead you have to pay 60-75 cents each on brick link for 20 and find another dealer and pay more shipping

Edited September 20, 2016 by lanesteele240

[lanesteele240]

Conspiration theory anyone?

What if Lepin is an unpromoted / hidden part of the LEGO Group, which is dedicated for a special market, with slightly lower quality, for much affordable local price?

This is not unusal practice for different industires (automotive, IT, ...), so it is a common move to prevent not only piracy in countries, where customs or ideology (or both) would block otherwise the expansion.

Actually, whatever, don't take this line too serious!

Illuminati confirmed

[Big G]

Conspiration theory anyone?

What if Lepin is an unpromoted / hidden part of the LEGO Group, which is dedicated for a special market, with slightly lower quality, for much affordable local price?

This is not unusal practice for different industires (automotive, IT, ...), so it is a common move to prevent not only piracy in countries, where customs or ideology (or both) would block otherwise the expansion.

Actually, whatever, don't take this line too serious!

Not so sure about that. Many years ago I worked for a company that provided some of the leather that Louis Vuitton use to trim their luggage. Every month Louis Vuitton would send a couple of inspectors to our factory and they would go through every single piece of leather we had produced for them, grading them from 1 - 4 or rejecting them altogether. Unknown to Louis Vuitton we were then selling the pieces they had rejected to the people in the Far East that manufactured the fake LV luggage on sale there. If LV had ever found out we were supplying H.Y.I.L.C.L. (the initials of the faker's company name) we would have lost our contract and also a very large percentage of our client base

[agrof]

Bit off:

It is a different story what You describe. Your ex-company acted as supplier. What I sketched, the main company who owns the brand, in the goal of growth, invest to build up an alternative brand.

They supply all the technology and know-how, with some compromises, to be able to sell the product on actual market (like lower quality). Alternative brand is needed to protect the original, and not to mismatch them. The main company actually owns this shadow one, maybe not transparently or even secretly, but financially in the background, so the wallet will be filled via two or more channels. In this way they made the expansion on global market, and prevent copycats. And also comes to the story, that China is a very-very special case, you can not compare with western business modells. The chinese state is co-owner in every company, whatever size... and there are mega-factories there, like VW, Daimler, BMW etc... way above LEGO.  Automotive producers went there to get a slice from a huge cake, and therefore they made sacrifices. Money speaks.  I hope understandable, what I typed.

ON: Curious on news from Lepin, what will come next... and how durable their Power Functions will be. Strange to see Lepin's such quick growing portfolio. I stay loyal to LEGO for the moment. I can withstand greediness to own everything on Earth.

Edited September 22, 2016 by agrof

[dirk]

 

my Lepin Parisian restaurant under construction ...

[dr_spock]

FYI...

 

 

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

I'm not too familiar with clone brands. Is Lepin the biggest one, hence them being targeted by Lego?

[agrof]

2 hours ago, dr_spock said:

FYI...

 

 

Good news, I am curious how will the story end up. Seeing what is happening in other industries, I am not sure what will happen, but fingers crossed for LEGO. 

Lepin must learn a lesson (Intellectual Property), but seeing the reviews, and the quality of their products, I hope they can develop own designs, and will be ready for a healthy competition.

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

3 minutes ago, agrof said:

Good news, I am curious how will the story end up. Seeing what is happening in other industries, I am not sure what will happen, but fingers crossed for LEGO. 

Lepin must learn a lesson (Intellectual Property), but seeing the reviews, and the quality of their products, I hope they can develop own designs, and will be ready for a healthy competition.

Well, if they have been using Lego's designs for too long, they might have a hard time setting aside people and resources for original designs. I guess we'll see what happens.

[Sebiron]

2 hours ago, BrickHat said:

I'm not too familiar with clone brands. Is Lepin the biggest one, hence them being targeted by Lego?

Bella is more bigger.

[crossmr]

Seems strange to target Lepin. They might have a hard time winning since Lepin could simply cite them allowing Bella and other brands to continue, as well as Lego allowing Enlighten to clone them for like a decade with no action. Lepin's argument may simply be that Lego's inaction for a decade became a de facto permission in China. They'd have better luck getting customs in other countries to reject shipments with Lepin items in them.

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

2 hours ago, crossmr said:

Seems strange to target Lepin. They might have a hard time winning since Lepin could simply cite them allowing Bella and other brands to continue, as well as Lego allowing Enlighten to clone them for like a decade with no action. Lepin's argument may simply be that Lego's inaction for a decade became a de facto permission in China. They'd have better luck getting customs in other countries to reject shipments with Lepin items in them.

Is that a legit legal argument people can make? Sounds surprising to me.

[Robianco]

I'm not sure how it works legally. It actually wouldn't surprise me that a failure to file a suit against a previous company for the same infringement would be something that would hold up.

I know in employment that even if you don't sign a contract you can be legally bound by it. If you don't actively raise your objections to any points in that contract but continue to work at the company there is an assumption that you're happy to abide by that contract even if you haven't signed it.

[crossmr]

21 hours ago, BrickHat said:

Is that a legit legal argument people can make? Sounds surprising to me.

It works in Trademark. I know this will likely be some kind of copyright argument, but when it comes to trademark if you let it become diluted and don't actively protect it, you basically lose it. This is an example on Trademark: http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherzfeld/2013/02/28/failure-to-enforce-trademarks-if-you-snooze-do-you-lose/#5c234cdc7718

Now this talks about something that goes on for nearly 40 years, and I don't know how long Chinese companies have been creating Lego knock-offs, but it may not be a simple straightforward argument. In this case, they aren't actually violating the Lego trademark. They aren't using the Lego name, they are using the image, and set design. I don't believe lego has a trademark on the minifigure shape in China, so really it'll probably come down to using their images and design. Lepin could take their own photos, so really it would mostly be about design and whether China gives you legal protection over a design like that. If they don't, Lego can't do anything.

Edited September 23, 2016 by crossmr
fix link

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

3 hours ago, crossmr said:

It works in Trademark. I know this will likely be some kind of copyright argument, but when it comes to trademark if you let it become diluted and don't actively protect it, you basically lose it. This is an example on Trademark: http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherzfeld/2013/02/28/failure-to-enforce-trademarks-if-you-snooze-do-you-lose/#5c234cdc7718

Now this talks about something that goes on for nearly 40 years, and I don't know how long Chinese companies have been creating Lego knock-offs, but it may not be a simple straightforward argument. In this case, they aren't actually violating the Lego trademark. They aren't using the Lego name, they are using the image, and set design. I don't believe lego has a trademark on the minifigure shape in China, so really it'll probably come down to using their images and design. Lepin could take their own photos, so really it would mostly be about design and whether China gives you legal protection over a design like that. If they don't, Lego can't do anything.

Thanks! That's very informative. I guess I always assumed that Lego's patent on the minifigure was a worldwide thing.

[crossmr]

1 hour ago, BrickHat said:

Thanks! That's very informative. I guess I always assumed that Lego's patent on the minifigure was a worldwide thing.

As far as I know they only have trademark not patent. All their basic patents are expired. The minifigure thing is a trademark issue as far as I know. Which is really too bad. Let's be honest, it is the most basic and functional design for a figure to be compatible with these bricks. As much as I love Oxford here in Korea, I do wish they could have the more traditional legs and be compatible with the existing Lego figures. But they're still a decent figure without being weird like some of the other companies make.