[MOC] Incom T-65 x-wing (heavy modifications of Inthert's design)

[Gray_Mouser]

UPDATE : Here is a picture and the ldd file of the latest version. Cehnot also uploaded some upgrades, check out the following pages!

http://bricksafe.com/files/Gray_Mouser/GM_T65_v1.1.lxf

Flickr album: https://flic.kr/s/aHskH13nM3

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Hi,

A few months ago, Inthert set forth a MOC of the T-65 xwing. A fantastic MOC. Not only that, but he also took the time to publish instructions as well.

It so happened I was looking for an x-wing MOC at the time, so that I could use it as a gift for my girlfriend. But even though there were instructions, there was no brick list, and some pictures were not quite clear. So I downloaded LDD and built a numerical version of Inthert's MOC.

You can find more about Inthert's design here:

http://www.eurobrick...howtopic=138324

Upon completion, I realized I was proficient enough with LDD to try to improve some parts of Inthert's design that didn't seem as good as the rest of the MOC. Don't get me wrong, Inthert's MOC looks very, very good and fitted very well with what I remembered from the T-65 x-wing. But when compared to visuals from the movies, there were definitely differences. Subtle ones, to be sure, but differences nonetheless.

I started with very minor modifications (the canopy and the slopes on the wings). And things kinda got out of control from here. Since then I've spend a lot of time modding Inthert's MOC with the intent of making it as close to the real thing as possible. So the original MOC underwent very heavy modifications. I feel I modified most of the ship, and if you cannot tell at first glance that's good, it means I didn't screw everything up.

So here is the result of my efforts. I don't know if you will notice what I modified, but I'll make a list of what I did if anyone is interested.

Please let me know what you like, what you dislike, what looks better and what looks worse. Maybe I'll tweak this mod a bit further.

Here is the link to the Flickr album :

https://www.flickr.c...157672532315820

Edited December 27, 2016 by Gray_Mouser

[Hold0511]

Looks great - wonder what the real like version would look like - have you started to build this beauty?

[cehnot]

Nice changes. Do you plan to release the LDD file to us?

[Magmafrost]

Did you find a way to stop the nose cone from drooping? Its a bit of an issue I at least have with Inthert's design. Actually, I suppose you might not know for sure until you've build a physical one.

Also, I just have to comment on the roller skate piece as the targeting camera. That is the greatest thing I've ever seen in an x-wing moc.

[Inthert]

Hi Gary, sorry for not responding on the other thread, I've had a lot on recently.

Wow! this has been worth the wait :D You've managed to improve on so many areas I hardly recognise it!

The tiles on the nose look like they could be easily changed to match any individual X-wing's colour scheme, same with the wings, love the possibility of customisation there :) And you can't talk about the wings and not mention the engines! your 4-wide solution perfectly matches the slightly bulkier style of fuselage you've made. If I'm right in thinking you've managed to get the nosecone inline with the centre of the ship, you have my respect. As you probably know the nose was a stud lower than it should of been on my own, guess that was made possible by the higher fuselage, which was made essential by the engines which was caused by the side slopes.... I can see how and why you've wanted to redesign everything now ;P

All in all, a truly impressive modification, its been a pleasure to see it's journey from my design to this, certainly worthy of its own thread ;)

Did you find a way to stop the nose cone from drooping? Its a bit of an issue I at least have with Inthert's design. Actually, I suppose you might not know for sure until you've build a physical one.

Also, I just have to comment on the roller skate piece as the targeting camera. That is the greatest thing I've ever seen in an x-wing moc.

Don't suppose you could post a picture on my original thread showing the drooping? It's not an issue I've had with my physical version so I'm just curious to see what the cause of that might be :) Possible its just down to the slight differences between different brick types or clutch power but if its something wrong with the actual design I'd like to see if its something that could be improved :)

I'll second that!, an amazing use of the roller skate part! :D

[Gray_Mouser]

Thank you all for the kind words.

I will eventually build it, but first I hope I will be able to improve it. For example there are no landing gears yet. The front one could be made easily because the nose is pretty much hollow. For the rear ones, I think maybe the cylinders could sit on something (without being attached) when the xwing is not in "flying mode". I don't know yet, but something must be done.

I will share the LDD file, but I'm reluctant to do it now. There may still be critical flaws. I fixed a "weak spine" issue after making the pictures by the way. And because of that, I will have to move the bulge back, which I think is a good thing. There is something wrong with the overall shape when seen fro the side, and I think that's the reason. And some parts of the fuselage are not attached as solidly as I'd liked. When I posted the pictures I thought I was pretty much done, but now I'm not so sure.

Did you find a way to stop the nose cone from drooping? Its a bit of an issue I at least have with Inthert's design. Actually, I suppose you might not know for sure until you've build a physical one.

Also, I just have to comment on the roller skate piece as the targeting camera. That is the greatest thing I've ever seen in an x-wing moc.

Do you mean the tip of the nose or the whole nose? Either way, I think it shouldn't do that with Inthert's design (because the tip is attached by the white slopes, and the 63868 brick that allows the rest of the nose to tilt should rest on a 4x4 plate below). I used a similar trick, but in my mod there is a risk that the tip will droop a little. I may have to work on that.

And thanks for your comments on the roller skate piece. When I saw it in LDD, I had no clue what it was, but I knew exactly what to do with it.

Wow! this has been worth the wait :D You've managed to improve on so many areas I hardly recognise it!

Thank you :-) It means much coming from you. You exaggerate though. I think it's obvious what the bloodline of the mod is. By the way, I don't know if you noticed but in one of the picture in the flickr album, the moc and the mod fly side by side.

If I'm right in thinking you've managed to get the nosecone inline with the centre of the ship, you have my respect. As you probably know the nose was a stud lower than it should of been on my own, guess that was made possible by the higher fuselage, which was made essential by the engines which was caused by the side slopes.... I can see how and why you've wanted to redesign everything now ;P

Nice! That's pretty much what happened, yes. The tip of the nose is indeed pretty much in line with the centre of the ship. But I simply used 73983 hinges to tilt the nose upward, so that the top and bottom angles are roughly the same. That's why the red line is not continuous by the way, so that it's not too obvious that it is tilted. Filling the gaps in the fuselage was not easy though, and it's still not perfect.

Furthermore I'm not 100% sure that it will stay in place when it is built, even though I've given this some thoughts. The two sides of the nose are tilted inward as well as upward, and it seems to me they should stay up (the two sides are linked together, so they shouldn't tilt back outward, in turn preventing them from tilting back downward). It kinda sounds like circular reasoning though, so I don't know.

There are a lot of other things I did, although a lot occurred inside, as you can imagine.

Other comments, positive or negative are most welcome. I think I value criticism even more, because it may give me an opportunity to correct mistakes.

[blbills]

Very Nice Gary! Those are some great improvements over Inthert's original design. Not even sure where to start.

FYI I have had no issues with the "droopy nose" syndrome with Inthert's physical model.

[Gray_Mouser]

All right. This time I think I'm done. Hopefully. Maybe.

Since last time, I made the following modifications:

• a lot of things around the cockpit to make the whole build sturdier (I keep using that word, I hope it's correct)
• added landing gears (the rear ones are not retractable nor attached, they're a sort of glorified stand). And before you ask, there are no hinges for the front gear hatch. The bricks have to be moved manually when the gear is retracted (but they are still part of the build).
• made the cannons slightly longer.
• lowered computer so that the pilot can see through the canopy
• greebling on top of the craft
• mechanism locking the two sides of the nose together

I also had to change some bricks because some colors are not available. I most notably had to modify the canopy. I lack words to say how unhappy I was about that, but I think I managed to make the new one look roughly the same. The nozzles in the turbines are now gray (again, not happy), as are the slopes on the bulge. It is actually gray on one of the studio model so I may leave it like that. I still like white better, so I may still do something.

Anyway, here are some new visuals.

 

From above, I hope you'll agree this is about as good as it gets scale wise, especially since the reference materials are not always consistent:

From the side, it's more complicated. I couldn't find a visual I could trust without a perspective problem. So I had to go with my guts.

 

I went out of my way the make the build as solid as I could. But really, I have no way of knowing if the mod will not collapse under its own weight, let alone be swooshable. I'm not sure the rear landing gears will hold the xwing either.

Is anyone with a big supply of bricks interested in alpha testing this mod? If not, I'll run a few more test, and order the bricks if I'm confident enough. There are 1223 bricks by the way (including two transparent darts for the lasers, and four transparent dishes for the thrusters, but excluding the figs).

As always, comments are welcome.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Gray_Mouser

[ScottishDave]

Well done: it looks really, really good. I love that top view - and I do agree, it looks "as good as it gets".

About the only thing that I would do differently is the angle of the rear edge of the wing - it looks to me as if three 2x4 wedge plates would be perfect, instead of the 3x12 that you used. However, I have a strong feeling that you used the 3x12 due to considerations of strength and rigidity, and I can't fault that.

There are some side views of x-wings available... perhaps not photographs of the original filming miniatures, but just typing "x-wing side view" into Google produced a fairly consistent set of pictures... and your x-wing matches up really well.

I wish I had the time to test this - but alas, "real life" has forgotten its rightful place and is interfering with my lego time.

Well done again, and I look forward to seeing the finished LXF at some point!

 

[Gray_Mouser]

Thanks ScottishDave. You're right the smaller wedges are better.

I'm aware the lengths of the guns are a little off. I fixed it already, but I made the visuals before.

Someone also commented on Flickr he didn't like the underside of the fuselage around the canopy. He felt it was too tall, and I kinda agree. I removed the structurally important plate at the bottom but it probably doesn't help much. I also changed the slopes at the bottom so that the angle is steeper... It's more accurate but it screwed a lot of things inside the cockpit. Does it look better or worse? Can you even see the difference?

Before:

After:

I aslo fixed some other little things, but you couldn't have known about them.

Anyway, my time playing with virtual legos is unfortunately almost up, so it's time to work on the final version. Please let me know what options you like best, and I'll hopefully be able to upload the ldd file soon.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Gray_Mouser

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

5 hours ago, Gray_Mouser said:

I'll hopefully be able to upload the ldd file soon.

Does the new Eurobricks now support LFX attachments, because I have not been able to do such when it first came online?

[Gray_Mouser]

Ldd files seem to be back.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done and I've begun buying bricks. I try to make adjustements to decrease the overall price. My main problem is the 2780 connector peg, it's pretty rare. Do you think it can be replaced by the more common 3673 peg? Ldd won't let me slide it all the way along a bar, and I need to do that... From the 3d model, I can't see why it couldn't be done. Does it work with the real peg?

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

1 hour ago, Gray_Mouser said:

Ldd files seem to be back.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done and I've begun buying bricks. I try to make adjustements to decrease the overall price. My main problem is the 2780 connector peg, it's pretty rare. Do you think it can be replaced by the more common 3673 peg? Ldd won't let me slide it all the way along a bar, and I need to do that... From the 3d model, I can't see why it couldn't be done. Does it work with the real peg?

Technic pin 2780 is currently produced in exclusively black.  As for 3673, it does not have friction ridges as 2780, so it spins relatively free, though its mold does not permit bars to slide through completely—so it will not work with 3673.

[Gray_Mouser]

It can never be easy huh? It's not a big deal, I'll find a way.

Thanks for the information.

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

38 minutes ago, Gray_Mouser said:

It can never be easy huh? It's not a big deal, I'll find a way.

Thanks for the information.

That is what makes LEGO so great!

You are welcome.

[Surox]

why not render in ldd to povray? it looks nicer that way

[Gray_Mouser]

2 hours ago, Surox said:

why not render in ldd to povray? it looks nicer that way

Because I've never heard of it? I'm really quite new at this.

I didn't intend to make new visuals before the pictures of the physical build because although I made a lot of changes, it doesn't show all that much. But now maybe I will.

Thanks for pointing this out, I'll look into it.

[Surox]

20 hours ago, Gray_Mouser said:

Because I've never heard of it? I'm really quite new at this.

I didn't intend to make new visuals before the pictures of the physical build because although I made a lot of changes, it doesn't show all that much. But now maybe I will.

Thanks for pointing this out, I'll look into it.

Np, didnt know you were new :D Aside from that the model looks great!

[Gray_Mouser]

Indeed, it looks much better than in LDD.

[Gray_Mouser]

I'm almost done with the instructions. I've shortened the rear body length by one stud, it feels more accurate that way. My orders start to pile up, I will soon be able to test it for real.

In the meantime I've played a little with povray. Next stop, pictures of the real thing. I can't wait!

 

[MoppeW40k]

I admire your dedication to this project. I thought 3 iterations ago, that it looks perfect. Getting even better ;-)

 

Cheers

Sebastian

[MilkPls69]

Can't wait to see the final version with those instructions. Might I add those renders are fantastic!

[Gray_Mouser]

9 hours ago, MilkPls69 said:

Can't wait to see the final version with those instructions. Might I add those renders are fantastic!

Thank you!

Actually, I have just finished to build it.

The good news is that it can be done, with some slight modifications and omissions (some elements that can attach to each other in LDD cannot in real life). The targetting computer is gone (although it could be included in a display model), as are the transparent dishes at the rear of the thrusters (not a big loss).

The bad news is that:

• it is a terminal pain in the neck to build. The sides of the cockpit and the nose are attached to the body with ball joints, and they are so stiff that the angles have to be right before assembly. It wouldn't be so bad if the joints could be easily reachable but they're not.
• the nose is too flimsy. It is tilted upward, and in theory it shouldn't be able to tilt back downward. In reality it can, because the bricks are not perfectly in place to begin with, and they can move a little.
• The engines are not attached as solidly as I would like (but I think I could live with it)
• The wings are too flimsy as well. The gray areas and the red stripes prevented the use of sturdier solutions. Maybe they can be moved, or removed altogether (I guess the red stripes wouldn't be missed, although I like them)
• I don't think the wings would stand a lot a closings / openings before something detach inside the body. I doubled the number of hinges though, so the wings would stay in place for some time even with a loose hinge.
• The front landing gear is faulty, because it is attached to the top of the nose, which is allowed to tilt upward... Not good at all. The rear landing gears work fine though (I was afraid the cylinders would slip on them)

So sadly, it is still a work in progress. It could be considered as a display model, I guess, but it would be a very sloppy one.

I'm not giving up though. The main problem is the nose (especially the top), it's flimsy as hell. But it is mostly empty, so there must be some kind of way to link the top of the nose to the sides (and ideally the sides to the tip too). It probably means that the front landing gear won't be retractable anymore, but compromises will have to be made.

I already took the model apart, and I really shouldn't work on it in the near future. But maybe I will all the same :-)

I did take a picture though:

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Gray_Mouser

[cehnot]

visually, this looks stunning. I understand that you need to look at the durability and structure of the frame and construction, but that looks like a great T-65

[Gray_Mouser]

16 hours ago, cehnot said:

visually, this looks stunning. I understand that you need to look at the durability and structure of the frame and construction, but that looks like a great T-65

Thank you. But trust me, you wouldn't want to build it as it is now.

I may have a solution though. I don't like it much, but it gets the job done. I have stuck a minifig back plate in the gap due to the upward tilted nose. No way it can come down now. I have also added a 1x1 plate with tooth to prevent the top of the nose to tilt upward. It almost feel sturdy now. The retractable landing gear is gone for good though. But I'm confident a removable one can be done.

Here is a picture (the plate with tooth is yellow, it can be seen from a gap on the right). What do you guys think?