[GBC] Akiyuki project (EV3)(NXT)

[Courbet]

3 hours ago, Lego_GBC_NL said:

Hi all,

I've built around 12 GBC modules (mostly Akiyuki), but none of them contained any NXT/EV3 parts. I'm now thinking of building the Fast Ball Sorter as clear instructions and the program file have been beautifully created and shared here on eurobricks. Big thanks for that!

I had a few questions, though, before starting to order parts. I hope some of you who already built the Fast Ball Sorter (Courbet, Mogwai, Goggel...) would be willing to help me with my questions below.

1. Technic, Shock Absorber: is part # 2909c03 correct (Technic, Shock Absorber 9.5L, Complete Assembly (Soft Spring)) ? In one parts list it says 2909c02 (Hard Spring), so just to be sure.
2. Rubber Belt: is this the same red rubber belt as used in the Ball Factory, so part # x37 (Rubber Belt Medium (Round Cross Section) - Approx. 3 x 3) ?
3. Ribbed Hoses: same length as used in the spiral lift in the Ball Factory, meaning 11L (part # 78c11) ?
4. EV3 cables: how many EV3 cables do we need for building the Ball Sorting Robot and in which length(s) ? I guess at least 4 (Color Sensor & 3 Motors), but to avoid unnecessarily long cabling, which lengths would be most efficient ? I noticed these cables come in 25/35/50 cm (10/14/20 inches).
5. Powering the EV3 brick: what do you use for powering the EV3 brick: 6 AA batteries or the 2050 mAh lithium ion rechargeable battery ? The rechargeable battery seems quite expensive, so I just wondered if it makes any difference when building the Ball Sorter.
6. Powering the M-Motor: is it correct, for powering the M-Motor, that we have the choice between the normal PF power supply options and the Converter Cable for Mindstorms (part # 8528-1) ? I noticed this cable is very expensive and not offered a lot on BrickLink. Think Akiyuki uses one in his video. If I would use the cable, does the M-Motor automatically start when the EV3 program is executed ? I mean, is this also part of the EV3 program file or how does this work exactly ?
7. EV3 (general): I don't own any EV3 equipment yet, so I was wondering what would be the best approach to purchase this. Buying parts separately or a complete official EV3 Lego set, like set # 45544 or 31313. I'm a bit worried, because besides the brick, motors, sensors, cables and power supply, I guess I'll also be needing the software and the USB cable that connects the EV3 brick to a PC. Any advice from people having experience with purchasing EV3 parts ? Some guidance would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance for any support that might be helpful ! Can't wait to start building this one!

1 : Yes, black 2909c03 is correct (dark grey shock absorber is stronger iirc)
2 : x37, yes
3 : Yes, but ideally it should be a tad longer, like 11.5L. The lower one is longer, it might be a 12L or 13L, I don't recall.
4 : I used one 50cm (color sensor), one 35cm (large motor) and two 25cm (medium motors)
5 : I used fresh AA batteries and they didn't last very long, so a rechargeable battery is probably a better option.
6 : I tried to power the M motor with the 8528-1 cable (and a 8886 cable), and it worked but only if the EV3 program commanded a power variation (100 - 99 - 100 - 99) every second (see http://bricks.stackexchange.com/questions/2325/how-to-use-power-functions-with-mindstorms-ev3 ). To save batteries, and because the ceaseless variation felt weird I disconnected the M motor from the EV3 Brick and used a train regulator. I did not test using an old 9V motor, which is what Akiyuki actually used. If you really want to power the spiral lift motor with the EV3 brick, it's simpler to modify the design to use another EV3 motor and modify the program as Mogwai did.
7 : that's the one I cannot answer because I borrowed the EV3 from a friend

[Lego_GBC_NL]

45 minutes ago, Courbet said:

1 : Yes, black 2909c03 is correct (dark grey shock absorber is stronger iirc)
2 : x37, yes
3 : Yes, but ideally it should be a tad longer, like 11.5L. The lower one is longer, it might be a 12L or 13L, I don't recall.
4 : I used one 50cm (color sensor), one 35cm (large motor) and two 25cm (medium motors)
5 : I used fresh AA batteries and they didn't last very long, so a rechargeable battery is probably a better option.
6 : I tried to power the M motor with the 8528-1 cable (and a 8886 cable), and it worked but only if the EV3 program commanded a power variation (100 - 99 - 100 - 99) every second (see http://bricks.stackexchange.com/questions/2325/how-to-use-power-functions-with-mindstorms-ev3 ). To save batteries, and because the ceaseless variation felt weird I disconnected the M motor from the EV3 Brick and used a train regulator. I did not test using an old 9V motor, which is what Akiyuki actually used. If you really want to power the spiral lift motor with the EV3 brick, it's simpler to modify the design to use another EV3 motor and modify the program as Mogwai did.
7 : that's the one I cannot answer because I borrowed the EV3 from a friend

@Courbet, thanks a lot for your answers! Very helpful

1. OK - good to know that the same part in another color is stronger.
2. OK
3. OK - have a few hoses laying around in flat silver, but now I know which lengths to buy extra.
4. Perfect - those cables/lengths are included in the official EV3 sets, if I would go for that option.
5. Yes, maybe it is the better option. Seems that the rechargeable battery is included in the official EV3 core set (45544) as well as the complementary power adapter (45517).
6. Hmm I need to think about this, maybe I'm making things too difficult for someone without any experience with EV3 I've got two train regulators and plenty of plain PF (rechargeable) battery boxes, so won't be an issue. I downloaded both EV3 program files, so yours and Mogwai's. So if I understood correctly, the programs are not completely the same and depending on how I decide to power the M-Motor (through EV3 or PF), I'll know which of the two programs to use ? Is that correct or am I putting things too simply now ?
7. No problem, I'll look/ask around some more on the net or perhaps someone else will still reply to the question here.

Thanks again!

[DrJB]

SInce we're talking about CBG EV3 modules, Akiyuki built a 5(?) DOF robotic arm as part of his GBC collection. Anyone ever reverse-engineered such marvel?  

[9v system]

58 minutes ago, DrJB said:

SInce we're talking about CBG EV3 modules, Akiyuki built a 5(?) DOF robotic arm as part of his GBC collection. Anyone ever reverse-engineered such marvel?  

no I don't think anyone has but it is not used for gbc

 

[Kristof]

He totally useed it for GBC :) (5:56)

He has this newer 6 axis robot which I believe hasn't been put in GBC line yet... or perhaps has but I haven't seen any video of it. Nevertheless, I agree with DrJB, these are marvellous.

[Courbet]

13 hours ago, Lego_GBC_NL said:

1. Hmm I need to think about this, maybe I'm making things too difficult for someone without any experience with EV3 I've got two train regulators and plenty of plain PF (rechargeable) battery boxes, so won't be an issue. I downloaded both EV3 program files, so yours and Mogwai's. So if I understood correctly, the programs are not completely the same and depending on how I decide to power the M-Motor (through EV3 or PF), I'll know which of the two programs to use ? Is that correct or am I putting things too simply now ?

You can easily test both programs whichever configuration you choose.
If you want to use Mogwai's program without the 4th EV3 motor, remove the 'D' motor block and recreate the 2 missing connections (a bit tricky when you're inexperienced with the software interface).
If you want to use mine with a 4th EV3 motor, just add a 'D' motor block right at the beginning.
Anyway it is most likely than neither program will be completely satisfying without some fine tuning (the two programs are similar in construction but use different power and timing values).

[Lego_GBC_NL]

1 hour ago, Courbet said:

You can easily test both programs whichever configuration you choose.
If you want to use Mogwai's program without the 4th EV3 motor, remove the 'D' motor block and recreate the 2 missing connections (a bit tricky when you're inexperienced with the software interface).
If you want to use mine with a 4th EV3 motor, just add a 'D' motor block right at the beginning.
Anyway it is most likely than neither program will be completely satisfying without some fine tuning (the two programs are similar in construction but use different power and timing values).

OK - need to learn a lot about EV3 and the software interface, but I'm willing to invest time in that. It's just too cool to not use Mindstorms if you're a GBC fan

Guess I'll just have to start buying pieces and get things rolling. At least I do have the two programs as a starting point.

Thanks again for your input !

[DrJB]

On 2/26/2017 at 0:34 AM, 9v system said:

no I don't think anyone has but it is not used for gbc

 

Of course Akiyuki DID use for his GBC setup ... It was for moving a box-full of balls from one end of the GBC chain to the very begining.

 

EDIT: Looks like krisandkris12 beat me to it :)

Edited April 6, 2017 by DrJB

[Kristof]

^ Oh yea, you get silver medal only in this race :D

[DrJB]

lol .. darn, someone once said: 2nd place is the first loser  :(

[9v system]

@Courbet are you able to do the container transporter? I would really like to do that one but my hands are full with the ball cleaner

I have sent an LDraw file to blakbird so he can make a render for the fast ball sorter.

[Courbet]

 

7 hours ago, 9v system said:

@Courbet are you able to do the container transporter? I would really like to do that one but my hands are full with the ball cleaner

I have been interested in this one for a long time, I have got the material (including the EV3 to 9V cables) and I think I clearly understand how it works, but some of the crucial details are kept hidden from view. There are simply not enough pictures on Akiyuki's blog for me to be able to build this module as faithfully as I'd like to.

Good luck finishing the Ball Cleaner!

[9v system]

21 minutes ago, Courbet said:

 

I have been interested in this one for a long time, I have got the material (including the EV3 to 9V cables) and I think I clearly understand how it works, but some of the crucial details are kept hidden from view. There are simply not enough pictures on Akiyuki's blog for me to be able to build this module as faithfully as I'd like to.

Good luck finishing the Ball Cleaner!

Email akiyuki, he will send you more pictures, I got some more pictures of the ball cleaner as I was stuck.

[9v system]

instructions for Akiyuki's ball sorter have been tested and are available for download 

first I will credit, Courbet, Mogwai and Goggel for the combined work on this module, they did an excellent job to make sure that this module works well. I must admit this module works very well based of the videos I have seen so far, If you are considering to build any of these modules I would start with this one.

some notes about the module:

• There are actually two versions of the instructions, this is because Mogwai's version uses the seconded large EV3 motor from the mindstorms kit to drive the spiral lift, wares Courbets version uses a pf M motor to drive it. ether way they both work well.
• The render (by Blakbird) above is slightly different from the instructions because it was the first draft of the module, and doesn't include the black box connector at the end like Akiyuki's one does.
• the shocks are the soft type 2909c03, the rubber band is the same band that is used on the ball factory x37
• this module drains batteries quite fast so the EV3 should be connected to mains if you want to use it in a GBC circuit, the rechargeable battery is a good option but is also quite expensive.
• the spiral lift has a overflow on the ramp to stop the balls from backing up to much.  

I have yet to build this module to see if there are any flaws with the instructions, but it looks like most of the problems have been sorted already.

 

stay tuned for more modules

[tismabrick]

Thanks so much for sharing this with us. Looking forward to seeing the ball cleaner ... :)

Btw: Seems you forgot the link to the instruction or are they hidden somewehere?

Edit: Found them in the first post

Edited April 2, 2017 by tismabrick

[9v system]

On ‎2‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 8:01 PM, tismabrick said:

Thanks so much for sharing this with us. Looking forward to seeing the ball cleaner ... :)

Btw: Seems you forgot the link to the instruction or are they hidden somewehere?

Edit: Found them in the first post

no worries, it was easy

once courbet has done the container transporter I will post a review and same for the ball cleaner.

On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 0:41 PM, Lego_GBC_NL said:

@Courbet, thanks a lot for your answers! Very helpful

1. OK - good to know that the same part in another color is stronger.
2. OK
3. OK - have a few hoses laying around in flat silver, but now I know which lengths to buy extra.
4. Perfect - those cables/lengths are included in the official EV3 sets, if I would go for that option.
5. Yes, maybe it is the better option. Seems that the rechargeable battery is included in the official EV3 core set (45544) as well as the complementary power adapter (45517).
6. Hmm I need to think about this, maybe I'm making things too difficult for someone without any experience with EV3 I've got two train regulators and plenty of plain PF (rechargeable) battery boxes, so won't be an issue. I downloaded both EV3 program files, so yours and Mogwai's. So if I understood correctly, the programs are not completely the same and depending on how I decide to power the M-Motor (through EV3 or PF), I'll know which of the two programs to use ? Is that correct or am I putting things too simply now ?
7. No problem, I'll look/ask around some more on the net or perhaps someone else will still reply to the question here.

Thanks again!

have you been able to build it yet?

[Lego_GBC_NL]

9 hours ago, 9v system said:

have you been able to build it yet?

no, I haven't started yet

I did order and receive all parts from BrickLink, but I didn't find the time yet to start building (usually quite busy when I'm working, so most of the time building Lego during holidays only)

will keep you updated once I've started

[Innocity]

Hi~ I expect the rest of the modules besides 'Fast ball sorter EV3' to complete the instructions. Thank you, 9V system.

[9v system]

40 minutes ago, Innocity said:

Hi~ I expect the rest of the modules besides 'Fast ball sorter EV3' to complete the instructions. Thank you, 9V system.

progress is slow going but I'm getting close

[9v system]

@Courbet have you had any luck with the container transporter module? I would really like to do this one but my hands are full, I may be able to help if you send me a draft file

[Courbet]

14 hours ago, 9v system said:

@Courbet have you had any luck with the container transporter module? I would really like to do this one but my hands are full, I may be able to help if you send me a draft file

Sorry to disappoint but I'm not working on it.
Other stuff got in the way and I'm not sure I will ever tackle it one day.

[yoyo08190]

Hello everyone, I present my reproduction of moc mogwai.

It works very well, just a little long.

Tell me what you think?

 

Hello everyone, I present my reproduction of moc mogwai.

It works very well, just a little long.

Tell me what you think?

 

 

[RohanBeckett]

very cool! show us a video of it working!

Could you use the EV3 as a scoreboard?  that would be interesting!  or have it randomly shoot each basket, and keep a score of each one going throughout the day?

[Lego_GBC_NL]

Finally found some time to build the Fast Ball Sorting Robot. YouTube video below. I must say it was a great build, another fantastic GBC module by Akiyuki! I enjoyed this one especially as it was my first experience with Mindstorms/EV3.

As for the building instructions and EV3 program file made by Courbet: 100% accurate (as usual)! Built it in one go without any mistakes Thanks again!

At first I used a normal PF M-motor to operate the spiral lift, accordingly the instructions. This worked perfectly. Later on I built in a 2nd EV3 large servo motor to see if this worked as well (it was included in the EV3 Lego set anyway).

Besides the extra motor I obviously had to make some minor changes to the EV3 program, as predicted by Courbet

• The horizontal movement of the arm was slightly off for my build, so I made minor changes to the number of rotation degrees of the B motor (played around with this until I noticed the best results)
• Added a new block at the beginning containing the extra D motor (inverted direction - power 7). I guess the power value is quite low as I didn't use all the gears that were needed with the PF M-motor. The EV3 large servo motor has a more or less direct connection to the mechanism below the spiral lift.

What I was wondering:

• @Courbet noticed that B&C motors are now at 75% power in your program file. Did you test at 100% using this setup? I'm a bit afraid to test, don't want to mess up things 75% is fast enough for me, just asking out of curiosity to see if you tried already...
• I noticed in Akiyuki's original video that the robot arm only moves to the middle whenever the color sensor has detected a ball/color. Otherwise the arm remains at the left side. Also in Akiyuki's video the arm moves "automatically" to its starting position next to the EV3 brick as soon as the balls stop coming. Any specific reason why this wasn't included in the program? Did the others, who built this module, also have to manually push back the arm to its original starting position each time the program was restarted (both horizontally and vertically)?
• How exactly can we add a ball counter, like Mogwai did? My knowledge of the EV3 software is still very limited

 

[Courbet]

14 hours ago, Lego_GBC_NL said:

Finally found some time to build the Fast Ball Sorting Robot. YouTube video below. I must say it was a great build, another fantastic GBC module by Akiyuki! I enjoyed this one especially as it was my first experience with Mindstorms/EV3.

As for the building instructions and EV3 program file made by Courbet: 100% accurate (as usual)! Built it in one go without any mistakes Thanks again!

At first I used a normal PF M-motor to operate the spiral lift, accordingly the instructions. This worked perfectly. Later on I built in a 2nd EV3 large servo motor to see if this worked as well (it was included in the EV3 Lego set anyway).

Besides the extra motor I obviously had to make some minor changes to the EV3 program, as predicted by Courbet

• The horizontal movement of the arm was slightly off for my build, so I made minor changes to the number of rotation degrees of the B motor (played around with this until I noticed the best results)
• Added a new block at the beginning containing the extra D motor (inverted direction - power 7). I guess the power value is quite low as I didn't use all the gears that were needed with the PF M-motor. The EV3 large servo motor has a more or less direct connection to the mechanism below the spiral lift.

What I was wondering:

• @Courbet noticed that B&C motors are now at 75% power in your program file. Did you test at 100% using this setup? I'm a bit afraid to test, don't want to mess up things 75% is fast enough for me, just asking out of curiosity to see if you tried already...
• I noticed in Akiyuki's original video that the robot arm only moves to the middle whenever the color sensor has detected a ball/color. Otherwise the arm remains at the left side. Also in Akiyuki's video the arm moves "automatically" to its starting position next to the EV3 brick as soon as the balls stop coming. Any specific reason why this wasn't included in the program? Did the others, who built this module, also have to manually push back the arm to its original starting position each time the program was restarted (both horizontally and vertically)?

 

Hi @LEGO_GBC_NL, thanks for your kind words.

Since 75% is the default setting for motors, I kind of thought it might be the best setting for consumption consideration (I was running the EV3 on LR6 batteries, and they exhausted themselves very fast during the tedious test period). I also thought running the motors at 100% and constantly switching rotation might hurt them a bit in the long run, a thing I wanted to avoid since the whole EV3 material was not mine.

Akiyuki's program is more sophisticated that mine and seems to incorporate a return to initial position after a delay without activity.
As it was the first (and as of today, only) program I was to write for EV3, I aimed at simplicity and effectiveness and did not even tried to incorporate this behaviour which would indeed avoid the annoying need to manually reset the grabber each time the program is run.