Secret Enemies - Conclusion

[Bob]

SECRET ENEMIES

Conclusion: It's Over Friends

Michael Wright / jluck stood before the town.

"Mwahaha! You fools, you elected the Godfather as the Town Council Chair!"

His cohort, Ralph Brooks / Actor Builder stood next to him, with a smile on his face.

"I'm always smiling." he said.

"This means we get to kill all the townies now, right?"

Nope, I said at the beginning of the game that I didn't want any killing." Bob said.

The departed town members returned just at that moment.

"Aw shoot!" Betty said. "You guys sure screwed the pooch on this one!"

"Yeah, great going." Anne said.

The remaining two mafia members, Patricia Davis / Tariq J and Joshua Sutton / Peanuts took their place behind Michael.

"But wait." the NPC Policeman said. "We know who the Godfather is now, why don't we just arrest him?"

"Nope, sorry. They won fair and square."

"But that doesn't make any sense."

Congratulations to the mafia!

"Aw shit!" the cop said.

~~~

Well, that's it folks! The Mafia have won the very first game of Secret Enemies! Quick fun fact, the scum won the very first game of Mafia that was played on Eurobricks, so I guess it's only right they win this too.

The mafia played this game really well in my opinion, but the town did as well. I gave players on both sides, town and mafia, advice throughout the game privately when I handed out the cards if I thought they needed it. I treated this is a mafia school since most of the players had never played before. I treated this as a beta test and I'm very glad that I didn't have to restart at any point in the game. I also listened to some of the players and adapted accordingly.

Anyway, this was a fun game to host and I welcome all feedback, good or bad. Anyone can post in this thread. I'd also like feedback from the spectators that may have watched this game.

[fhomess]

Nicely done, scum! There was this niggling thought in the back of my head that jluck was the GF, but at some point you just have to try things. I'll have more thoughts later.

[Dragonfire]

So I was right about Patricia...

Sorry to everyone I doubted, like Erik ( ) and Lindsey too.

Can't believe Ralph and Joshua were both mafia, that was a very risky play for you guys to make

Can I just ask, how many town cards did you guys discard in the end?

[Actor Builder]

We did it! Me and Peanuts and Tariq J and Jluck and Bob and Anne and Ishmael won!

This was fun. Quite slow at times, but fun.

Can I just ask, how many town cards did you guys discard in the end?

I forgot to keep track.

Bob, this might be too big of a suggestion, but what if the policies passed actually affected the game mechanic in some way? Like one of the Town Policies said "If passed, the mayor gets another investigation." Or a Mafia Policy had a recruiting thing, or something.

Basically the policies would greatly temporarily affect the game. It might be cool.

Thanks for a fun game, Bob!

[jluck]

Nice! This game definitely needs to be ran again. As gf I decided early on that I wouldn't make any attempt to contact my teammates. It was too high a risk and I feel would have actually weakened my cover. As it was, I was completely in the dark making conjectures just like the rest of you, which made my cover stronger. Also, I discarded a town policy as mayor which I feel was likely a mistake but it's hard to say.

Bob, this might be too big of a suggestion, but what if the policies passed actually affected the game mechanic in some way? Like one of the Town Policies said "If passed, the mayor gets another investigation." Or a Mafia Policy had a recruiting thing, or something.

Basically the policies would greatly temporarily affect the game. It might be cool.

Thanks for a fun game, Bob!

Here's a thought, wonder if there's some type of mechanism we could put in place where mayors or TCCs could chose an action instead of passing the policy. I don't know if that'd be a worthy trade but it's an idea.

[Actor Builder]

Jluck, who did you think was Scum at which points in the game? That's something I was curious about pretty much the whole second half, when Peanuts and I kept switching around in the Town's eyes.

[Dragonfire]

Nice! This game definitely needs to be ran again. As gf I decided early on that I wouldn't make any attempt to contact my teammates. It was too high a risk and I feel would have actually weakened my cover. As it was, I was completely in the dark making conjectures just like the rest of you, which made my cover stronger. Also, I discarded a town policy as mayor which I feel was likely a mistake but it's hard to say.

Oh right, so you never made contact with the other scum....

And that wasn't a mistake, it made fhomess look scummier when he was given 3 mafia policies on the next day (we were confident that a town policy would come up)

[Tariq j]

Yeah good job, especially Peanuts and Actor the fact the town passed two mafia policies kind of helped us as well!

[fhomess]

Also, I discarded a town policy as mayor which I feel was likely a mistake but it's hard to say.

Not at all, it was a very good play. I think that scum mayors should always discard town policies because, and this was one of the problems with this game... there was no way for town to ever figure out what the mayors were doing. When I got 3 scum policies at the end of the deck, yes it put some spotlight on you, but it also put spotlight on 3 others who were all town. It strikes me that it's extremely easy to erode trust in this game, and extremely hard to restore trust. Just a little thing here and there makes the difference. I felt like as town we just had to guess at things and hope we were right. Scum could actually plan and coordinate.

Edited August 26, 2016 by fhomess

[jimmynick]

Congrats mafia, and Actor Builder. I was convinced you were Town from day 4.

[Actor Builder]

Congrats mafia, and Actor Builder. I was convinced you were Town from day 4.

Hah-ah!! YES!

That makes me happy, but... Who are you? Have you just been watching the whole time? That's really cool. Are you Ishmael? Please tell me you were Ishmael.

[Umbra-Manis]

Well played scum! It's a fun game, but it is very hard to trust anyone!

[Chromeknight]

Gah!

Both scum.

Well played.

How much did you scum talk behind the scenes?

[Tariq j]

Here's a thought, wonder if there's some type of mechanism we could put in place where mayors or TCCs could chose an action instead of passing the policy. I don't know if that'd be a worthy trade but it's an idea.

I like that, kind of substituting regular action like a recruit or an investigation instead of a town policy.

[Dragonfire]

Gah!

Both scum.

Well played.

How much did you scum talk behind the scenes?

Yeah, I'd like to know that too, and see the scum writeboard too (if it was a writeboard, and not just a PM).

Next time, it would be quite fun if lynches were included, just to put a spin on things.

[Tariq j]

There was quite a lot of talking going on behind the scenes and it was a PM.

Maybe if we were to have lynches it could be a kind of "3 in a row" thing. I.E If the town passes three town policies in a row the next day one player can be lynched.

[Chromeknight]

Talked a lot behind he scenes.

This is where this game diverges from the one played around the table. You probably never would have pulled off the scum-Ralph investigates scum-Joshua if you hadn't talked about it cleanly. Which you can't do if we're all sitting face to face.

Not that I'm complaining, you guys earned your win. But you had an advantage that the rules, as written, don't take into account. Any future games of this will need to take that into account.

[Actor Builder]

I think, personally, the game by itself was very slow and potentially boring. I actively work to make nothing in my life boring, so I made an extreme character choice in order to fill the void, for me, and hopefully others found it somewhat entertaining, if not just completely annoying. I know it's supposed to be a serious type game, but I always like to add a little insanity...

That said, it was a fun game. I enjoyed it, and I thank you Bob for tolerating my silliness. If you had been like "Yo, Actor Builder. No more man. That's dumb. Be serious." Then I certainly wouldn't have had as much fun, so I truly thank you.

[mediumsnowman]

Fun game, something new. Thanks Bob.

I think the game started really slow but got better towards the end, when everything starts to fall into place. Too bad I was dead!

I never really considered that Ralph and Joshua could both be scum. I always figured it had to be one or the other. Well played.

[jluck]

Jluck, who did you think was Scum at which points in the game? That's something I was curious about pretty much the whole second half, when Peanuts and I kept switching around in the Town's eyes.

I batted around a few ideas but never was 100% sure enough to contact anyone. Once the town had confirmed a scum player I decided against making contact because at that point I had nothing to gain and didn't want to change my game style.

[Khscarymovie4]

Had a really fun time playing. I will definitly sign up for another game of Secret Enemies.

[Chromeknight]

Some things that might help.

-Keep the game distinct from mafia. ie. No (extra) kills, no alignment reveals, stick with the rules as written (for a while at least).

-Keep all conversation in thread. The scum being able to PM and strategise was a huge advantage for them, one that likely can't be balanced except by large changes to the ruleset.

-perhaps explore the use of the POLL functionality the board offers to streamline voting.

-Be tougher on missing players. Betsy was right to be clear about stepping out. Scott should have been booted. Depending on when it was done, yes it might have given scum the majority, but it sets precedent for future players that they need to be involved.

[Bob]

Sorry for the delay in my replies, I've been a bit busy these past few days.

Some things that might help.

-Keep the game distinct from mafia. ie. No (extra) kills, no alignment reveals, stick with the rules as written (for a while at least).

-Keep all conversation in thread. The scum being able to PM and strategise was a huge advantage for them, one that likely can't be balanced except by large changes to the ruleset.

-perhaps explore the use of the POLL functionality the board offers to streamline voting.

-Be tougher on missing players. Betsy was right to be clear about stepping out. Scott should have been booted. Depending on when it was done, yes it might have given scum the majority, but it sets precedent for future players that they need to be involved.

I thought it was pretty faithful to the standard rules of Secret Hitler. You're allowed to kill up to two players in that game, so I felt it was only right to include that aspect as well. Alignment reveals shouldn't be allowed and it was a bit of a mistake that I included them, but at the time it felt justified and I couldn't go back on it afterwards.

From now on, yes, all conversation will take place in thread. There will be no private communication between anyone, town or scum. Jackjonespaw also said he wouldn't be able to play, but I didn't want to boot him as well like I did with Forresto because I felt it would've given the scum an advantage. Another error on my part.

Some other general responses:

As for including lynches, I don't think so. This isn't Mafia. It's very far from it. The policies are not meant to be descriptive. They're just a way to further the game.

Actor Builder, you did a really good job and I even encouraged your outlandish behavior at one point in time, so you were fine!

I'd like to see this game potentially run with more players just to see how it would work out. In the real game, the maximum is ten people. However I think in an online version, there is some room for more players. I also would've liked to see more participation. It may not seem like there's a lot to talk about, but there is. You're meant to point fingers, sow discontent, act differently than you would in Mafia. Remember, there's no lynches in this game. I'm not saying go overboard, because then you're liable to be killed if enough Mafia policies are passed, but have fun with the game. I think Actor Builder had the right idea. Outlandish behavior like I said above yet still participating and playing admirably.

In the early game you could tell some people were trying to play Mafia, but it's like trying to put a square block in a round hole. By the end though, I think more people caught on.

Regardless, I'm thinking of hosting again with a different setting. What's holding me back is the lack of set pieces. I was lucky this game being able to host it in a town I've already got built. I just don't have much time anymore to build sets. I will provide proper avatars and proper banners and whatnot, but if I do build sets they will be very barebones.

That said, look for Secret Enemies: Excalibur sometime in the very near future!

[mediumsnowman]

Will we ever get another standard Excalibur (not secret enemies) game?

[Peanuts]

So, I haven't really had time to write anything yet, but here I go.

I had a ton of fun. My scum team was great to play with. And Actor's behavior made the game much more interesting.

Something I have been thinking about: Most townies assumed a scum mayor would want to clear the godfather or a fellow scum member and that's why you assumed for a while Medium's townieness made me town as well. Maybe I was too much in a mafia mindset where you can get away with less as scum, but my motivation for clearing Medium was that he was the only one I had expressed suspicion for, and I was too conservative to pretend he's scum. Now that the investigation is more decided by public opinion then by the mayor I wonder what the best move for the scum would be. I guess if they control the investigation they can lobby for the godfather or one of their own, but if I play again, I will be extra wary of out-of-the-blue investigation suggestions. I suppose investigating the first investigator is a solid choice for the second investigation, if only because it means that investigating the godfather becomes a dangeroud choice for the scum mayor controlling the first investigation.

I agree that communication should be in thread and alignments should not be revealed. Either that or go the mafia route and allow the town to communicate as well. As for alignments of dead players, if the town plays it right they can use them as 100% confirmed investigations. It's too powerful in a game in which losing team members is not as big a problem as in mafia. Just my 2 cents.

Otherwise it was a great game, thanks for hosting, Bob.

I'll see whether I can play in the next game. The days were slow in this one, so it was not a problem for me. But I will be busy in the near future, and if the game speeds up, I might not be able to keep up.