IvanTheBuilder

Pirate theme getting worse

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I rather thought the last pirate wave was supposed to be "classic". Except for some new parts & little improvement for figs there was just nothing creative about it.

As a child I would have also wanted something more intense & creative. The Possibilities are endless: Mermaids, seamonsters, treasure islands, exotic islands... & What did they design? Red themed pirates vs. blue themed soldiers. The forts were were smaller than the ones from the last waves. Figs were just slightly better compared to the ones before. Wow. I also liked the mid-sized ship's, they were a good compromise to the small boats & the $100+ sets.

If you look at the price per part ratio, amount of figures, new molds or the creativity from the Ninjago line, the latest Castle & Pirates themes were just horrible.

Another thought: a pirate wave could profit from "normal skin" figures & therefore more diversity with the skin colours.

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If you look at the price per part ratio, amount of figures, new molds or the creativity from the Ninjago line, the latest Castle & Pirates themes were just horrible.

Compared to Ninjago, maybe. But compared to past Pirates waves last year didn't seem so bad. 70410 had a lower PPP than 6240 or 6257, and as many or more figures. 70411 had a lower PPP than 6241 or and as many or more figures. 70412 had a lower PPP than 6242 or 6265, with one fewer figure than 6242 but two more than 6265. 70413 had a lower PPP than 6243 or 6274 and, technically, as many or more figures (Brickset lists it as one fewer than 6243 because the figurehead is not fully assembled; however, the legs you need to complete him are included loose elsewhere in the set so you can complete it if you so choose). This is all without making any adjustment for inflation.

The only set that could be said to have an unusually high PPP was 70409, which cost 2.2 cents more per piece than 6239 but had the same number of figures. Even so, it still offered a much better PPP than classic Pirates sets like 6235 and 6245.

As for new molds, there were six of them: the new bandana, the new sawfish jaw, the 3x6 half-circle plate, and the three new crocodile molds. As far as I remember, the 2009 Pirates theme had seven: the feather, spyglass, fish, dynamite, and two boat hull sections. So the latest Pirates theme has only slightly fewer new molds, assuming I'm not forgetting any from either year.

Edited by Aanchir

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On 2016-08-24 at 0:44 AM, Robert8 said:

The Pirate line is very formulaic: Pirate Ship, Outpost, etc...

Some sets like 6253 and 10210 are rare jewels

I think LEGO should try something different for the next in house line. I have 4 suggestions to keep it fresh.

-Bring back Inslanders. They already did it in CMF Series 11. It just need to be its own "independent" theme to avoid controversies

- Include magical/mythological creatures like the Kraken, sea dragons, mermaids, etc...

- A theme more focused in the soldiers than the pirates, so a huge fortress would be the biggest set of the line, etc...

- A pirates vs pirates theme with 2 different pirates "factions" fighting against each other.

You are almost asking Lego to now copy Enlighten. Enlighten released a new pirate series this year, and it basically has everything you're asking for: (ignore the old rip off sets they used to do listed on that page, they're all original now)

http://enlighten-brick.com/pirates.html

 

There are sea creatures, islanders, magic, supernatural stuff, etc About the only thing they're lacking is a focus on the soldiers. I'd also like to see that. The pirates always got the biggest best boats in the old series. I'd like to see larger forts and unique interest outposts done by lego. But also some other stuff, to make a kind of pirate town. Tavern, merchants, that kind of thing.

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That's awesome.  I'm glad Enlighten is taking advantage of this absence, hopefully this will inspire LEGO to make their move back into the Pirate game.

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16 hours ago, x105Black said:

That's awesome.  I'm glad Enlighten is taking advantage of this absence, hopefully this will inspire LEGO to make their move back into the Pirate game.

Sadly what their competitors make, as long as it's not a bootleg of a Lego set, doesn't seem to influence Lego at all. If it did, all the companies making military sets, especially good ones like Oxford would have spurred them to consider that. Or at least Enlighten providing cheap clones of old Lego train sets might have gotten them to do that. I'd say that attempting to rebrick the enlighten stuff in Lego or mixing it as much as you can for the special parts might be your best home here. I might buy some of them and if I do, I'll scan up the instructions.

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18 minutes ago, crossmr said:

Sadly what their competitors make, as long as it's not a bootleg of a Lego set, doesn't seem to influence Lego at all. If it did, all the companies making military sets, especially good ones like Oxford would have spurred them to consider that. Or at least Enlighten providing cheap clones of old Lego train sets might have gotten them to do that. I'd say that attempting to rebrick the enlighten stuff in Lego or mixing it as much as you can for the special parts might be your best home here. I might buy some of them and if I do, I'll scan up the instructions.

That's partly because most of the LEGO Group's competitors in the building toys department are many orders of magnitude smaller than them. So they often have more to gain from products (like retired LEGO sets or themes based on certain genres) that might have an extremely niche audience by LEGO standards. When the LEGO Group is influenced by competitors, it's more likely to be by much larger companies such as Hasbro and Mattel which do a lot of their business outside the building toys sector.

With the military thing there are also company values and PR considerations that probably outweigh any perceived advantage to the LEGO Group having a modern military theme of their own. And likewise with 9V trains, there are many safety considerations that have changed since those first came out and influenced the switch to Power Functions trains.

Even if the LEGO Group were to take inspiration from a smaller competitor like Enlighten, it would still be subject to the same scrutiny during the development process as any other theme, and that might lead to them taking on a different form by the time of release. Brands like Enlighten and Oxford primarily serve the East and Southeast Asian markets, while most LEGO products are designed for a global market, and thus have to cater to a much wider pool of prospective buyers. Also, while LEGO has a lot of insights into how their OWN product lines sell, they can't get anywhere near as clear a read on the sales performance of other companies' brands — the fact that another company HAS products based on a certain theme doesn't necessarily mean those products are successful enough to be worth the LEGO Group's time.

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2 hours ago, crossmr said:

Sadly what their competitors make, as long as it's not a bootleg of a Lego set, doesn't seem to influence Lego at all. If it did, all the companies making military sets, especially good ones like Oxford would have spurred them to consider that. Or at least Enlighten providing cheap clones of old Lego train sets might have gotten them to do that. I'd say that attempting to rebrick the enlighten stuff in Lego or mixing it as much as you can for the special parts might be your best home here. I might buy some of them and if I do, I'll scan up the instructions.

I am actually amazed by the amount of themes and products Lego has. There really doesn't seem like there could possibly be space for more.

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Even though I saw the height of the pirates era, I only got a few sets, at the time my parents thought that spending more that 40 bucks on a set was too much so I never really got the bigger ones, but now more than anything I am glad I got the whole entire 2015 wave, back in 2009 I remember seeing them at TRU and almost bought the ship of that wave but I wasn't into Lego at that time, what made me start was losing my first baby to the point I bought the entire Kingdoms waves when they were out and saved them just in case I had another.  Honestly I love pirates, it's my favorite theme of all time from Lego and still feel kind of bummed out by the fact that it didn't do so good, I can still find the entire wave and buy them at retail but that's my next step in getting another ship.

I am hoping POTC revitalizes the interest in the line again, but guys/gals after seeing the positive buzz from the teaser, I will save my money to get these sets from day 1!  I know the new movie is a soft reboot but I hope Barbossa still sports the QAR, and maybe Lego will update it along with the Pearl, and finally the Flying Dutchman since it's in the trailer. 

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On 9/30/2016 at 9:41 PM, BrickHat said:

I am actually amazed by the amount of themes and products Lego has. There really doesn't seem like there could possibly be space for more.

My thoughts exactly.  

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On 30/09/2016 at 10:41 PM, BrickHat said:

I am actually amazed by the amount of themes and products Lego has. There really doesn't seem like there could possibly be space for more.

Themes Lego has currently or ever?

Lego indeed has a lot of IPs, and are impressive indeed but the quality of them... well miss and hits. I think Lego's latest pirate theme was servicable, the figs were very nice and most of the sets featured nice play value but nothing really spectacular the way 6276 is or the Admiral's flagship. In many ways much better than Castle 2013 ( shudders ). 

Many themes are also on their way out, hopefully something good will rise from their ashes ( trigger alert warning, can Nexo knight be vaporized into oblivion, please ? ) 

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1 hour ago, RetroInferno said:

Themes Lego has currently or ever?

Lego indeed has a lot of IPs, and are impressive indeed but the quality of them... well miss and hits. I think Lego's latest pirate theme was servicable, the figs were very nice and most of the sets featured nice play value but nothing really spectacular the way 6276 is or the Admiral's flagship. In many ways much better than Castle 2013 ( shudders ). 

Many themes are also on their way out, hopefully something good will rise from their ashes ( trigger alert warning, can Nexo knight be vaporized into oblivion, please ? ) 

I meant right now. The aisles are just filled with sooo many sets from so many different themes. It's not even fair to the lesser brands :laugh::laugh: .

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On September 30, 2016 at 10:41 PM, BrickHat said:

I am actually amazed by the amount of themes and products Lego has. There really doesn't seem like there could possibly be Space for more.

Fixed that for ya. :grin:

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15 hours ago, RetroInferno said:

Themes Lego has currently or ever?

Lego indeed has a lot of IPs, and are impressive indeed but the quality of them... well miss and hits. I think Lego's latest pirate theme was servicable, the figs were very nice and most of the sets featured nice play value but nothing really spectacular the way 6276 is or the Admiral's flagship. In many ways much better than Castle 2013 ( shudders ). 

Many themes are also on their way out, hopefully something good will rise from their ashes ( trigger alert warning, can Nexo knight be vaporized into oblivion, please ? ) 

Nexo Knights will presumably get a two and a half to three year run, like Exo-Force, Chima, or the original plans for Ninjago. I've seen no indication that it's been as monumental a hit as Ninjago was, but conversely, I've seen no indication that it's been a flop. A lot of AFOLs were ready to dismiss Chima as a flop from day one but it still got a solid three years of sets.

That said, of current themes that are "on their way out", aren't the main ones Bionicle and Mixels? I can't exactly see either of their absences opening up a market for more traditional themes. And otherwise I don't see any of the current non-licensed themes on the brink of disappearing.

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Wasn't Angry Birds on it's way out too? I don't think any sets are planned for 2017, could be a sign ( hopefully ). There's also Jurrasic world and scooby-doo that don't get anything in 2017 if that counts. 

Concerning Nexo Knights sales in Lego's latest financial report they stated the theme had an okay start in german, and used ''a good start'' in english, was something lost in translation I don't know. They clearly stated that both Starwars and Ninja are their top sellers though. 

I think the whole apathy towards the theme is that Lego replaced something people liked a lot with something totally out of tone with it's predecessor. 

 

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5 hours ago, RetroInferno said:

Wasn't Angry Birds on it's way out too? I don't think any sets are planned for 2017, could be a sign ( hopefully ). There's also Jurrasic world and scooby-doo that don't get anything in 2017 if that counts. 

Concerning Nexo Knights sales in Lego's latest financial report they stated the theme had an okay start in german, and used ''a good start'' in english, was something lost in translation I don't know. They clearly stated that both Starwars and Ninja are their top sellers though. 

I think the whole apathy towards the theme is that Lego replaced something people liked a lot with something totally out of tone with it's predecessor.

Yeah, I guess there's Angry Birds, but I never expected it to be anything but a one-and-done theme, like Jurassic World was the year before. If they replaced it with anything I'd have expected them to replace it with another one-and-done movie license, though I guess the chances of that may be slim since LEGO has two of their own movies out next year. Jurassic World and Scooby-Doo didn't really get anything this year besides polybags/DVDs, so I wasn't even thinking of those as current themes.

While Nexo Knights is the current incarnation of LEGO Castle, I'd consider it as much the successor to Chima and Ultra Agents as it is to Castle. After all, it takes over the TV/multimedia angle from Legends of Chima as well as the app integration from Ultra Agents.

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Sort of. However, pirates is my favourite lego theme and the 2009 imperial flagship is my favourite set. Although, pirates is still a good theme I agree that classic pirates is way better.

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Those Enlighten sets...I think my eyes are still burning and I'm struggling to see what they have to do with Pirates in a lot of them.

I quite liked last year's Pirates wave. Yes they replicated the 2009 sets but the kids that got those sets have probably moved on and I it was a good source of new torsos to add to piratical scenes (the 2009 and 2015 torsos work very well together). The lack of gold coins was a bit disappointing, I'll admit. The sets had a fairly limited run and sold out so Lego can't complain that they were left with tons of stock unsold and I presume they did a pretty good job matching demand to product produced. They also have a pretty good record at producing a new Pirate ship almost annually, so we'll continue to see those turn up quite often until the next "true" Pirates theme.

 

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I want to see what comes with POTC before I decide that the theme is clearly in decline. 2015 wave was a mixed bag for me personally. I DID feel the fort sets were all lackluster for the most part. The blue coat sets, when combined were ok, not great, but ok. I do feel when the two sets were combined they were better than any individual Imperial fort sets except for EF, ITP, and the 2009 fort. So it's really pretty good when combined. The only flaw with that logic is that if you combine 2 classic sets they would become better than the combined 2015 sets, so again that's why I rated them as just ok. The pirate sets though (minus the ship) are quite lackluster imo though. They are the weakest part of the 2015 theme.

One thing I do like about the theme, a lot actually, is The Brick Bounty. No it's not as good as BSB and some of the other classic ships, but it's still better than most people realize. When it was first announced, I was moderately excited tbh. The pictures just don't do it a lot of credit. I thought for sure that Brickbeards Bounty was better. But after buying, putting it together, I gained a new appreciation for that ship. I DO feel it is slightly better than BBB (I still like that ship as well). TBB is clearly the best set of the 2015 wave, and I recommend it to anyone that doesn't own it.

So I'm conclusion, I give the 2015 Pirates wave a solid B rating. If the Blue Coats would have gotten a ship, as well, I would have given it an A- type grade. But still, I can't call a B grade a sefinitve sign things are getting worse. As someone that owns or owned (a lot of sets from my childhood I no longer own, but I did have at one point) I can give good insight into the Pirates theme over the years.

Classic Pirates (80's and 90's)- A+

2009 Pirates (I only own The Brick Bounty, so I can't give a solid insight into this theme. But considering that the Imperial Flagship is part of it does give it credibility) 

POTC (2 ships, nice sets) A-

2015 (1 ship, 4 sets) B

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On 23/08/2016 at 9:35 PM, IvanTheBuilder said:

Hello. I have over the past year realised that the LEGO pirate sets are getting worse.

Only in the past year?  Better late than never! :pir-grin:

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The 2015 release was definitely a let down for me mainly because it was just a rehash of the 2009 sets but down-scaled slightly, i.e. the ship is a carbon copy minus the giant shark Q_Q . Although the soldiers fort gave value for money minifigure wise it still should have been a bigger layout.
Overall I think the Pirate theme needs another faction (like the Islanders from 1993) and I would love a fantasy/mystical injection. I went nuts for the 2007 fantasy era castle theme as it gave 3 totally diff factions (troll,dwarf and undead/dark magic + the humans) so it was a great breakaway from  2 human factions + bandits setup..... then Nexo knights came along *Insert cricket chirp* ... yes about those hits n misses lol.
TLG may struggle to bring fantasy into pirates though because POTC already has that element. And as much as I'm hoping for some good POTC sets in 2017 I suspect it'll just be the ship(s) worth getting as with many Disney/Starwars/licensed inspired themes they are quite restrictive in the sets i.e. they are all specific scenes from a film and I find this kills functionality/play ability.
As a side note I did build a fantasy pirate MOC, the result was a ship captained by Medusa towed by 4 giant sharks with a crew of mermaids (and one of the collapsed masts has been converted into a trebuchet to fling octopi at their enemies :pir-grin:). Was rather pleased to see the shark towing idea in the Enlighten set lol

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Pirates theme is getting better...pirates theme is getting worse...it is the same as the glass is half full...the glass is half empty. So it's for fans and time to decide.

On 08.10.2016 at 7:28 AM, The lego fan said:

Sort of. However, pirates is my favourite lego theme and the 2009 imperial flagship is my favourite set. Although, pirates is still a good theme I agree that classic pirates is way better.

I think lots of fans agree and I hope to see a new wave of pirates on their jubilee in 2019.

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20 hours ago, Staslegomaster said:

 

I think lots of fans agree and I hope to see a new wave of pirates on their jubilee in 2019.

I certainly hope so too!☺

The lego fan.

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