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Bob

Secret Enemies - Day Eight

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SECRET ENEMIES

Day Eight: Reused Picture Day

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"Seen this picture before?" Bob asked. "Well, shush."

~~~

Characters (10)

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Lindsey Green - Khscarymovie4

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Ralph Brooks - Actor Builder

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Joshua Sutton - Peanuts

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Scott Howell - Jackjonespaw

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Erik Kelly - Umbra-Manis

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Patricia Davis - Tariq J

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Michael Wright - Jluck

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Edward Cook - Chromeknight

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Christina Phillips - Fhomess

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Robert Butler - Dragonfire

Out of Town:

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Betsy Bowers - Forresto (town)

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Anne Martin - Mediumsnowman (town)

DAY EIGHT

Today's Mayor is Robert Butler / Dragonfire!

The new mayor must pick a Town Council Chair and nominate that person publicly here. Then you will have 24 hours to approve his government by voting either Yes or No. He should do so ASAP without delay. If he does not within 24 hours from now, it will be a failed government and a new mayor will be selected.

Remember, if three governments fail in a row (that would be 72 hours theoretically - three 24 hour periods), then the top card is flipped and that policy is enacted.

Edited by Bob

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Okay, so I'm guessing this means that Joshua was the one telling the truth and Ralph is scum. We know they cant bothe be on the same team and if Anne was town it only makes sense.

We need to think very hard as to who to nominate as TCC, if the GF is nominated its game over. Seeing as he has technically been "confirmed" as town I would suggest Joshua?

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Well it absolutely sucks that Anne was Town, at least now we know for sure that Ralph is Scum and Joshua is Town.

With that in mind, I'm going to nominate Joshua Sutton (Peanuts) as my TCC. He's the only person I know and trust is Town, and I'm not risking nominating anyone who might be the Godfather.

I, obviously, vote Yes to this.

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I'd like to encourage people to vote SLOWLY. We're getting to the point where we really need to think through this.

So... Anne was town. Lindsey didn't have any issue switching her vote, and overall didn't seem to care much who was killed. I still think Lindsey is scum.

Betsy being town should've been obvious based on the fact that Scott has been kept around despite not being here.

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I wrote a goodbye love letter to Anne, and she's simply "Out of Town"?

I formally object. As this is a beta game, Bob, I would like to suggest a proper funeral for our deceased Anne. She deserves it.

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I wrote a goodbye love letter to Anne, and she's simply "Out of Town"?

I formally object. As this is a beta game, Bob, I would like to suggest a proper funeral for our deceased Anne. She deserves it.

And I think that just proves you're scum. Three people have accused you of being scum and you haven't even tried to defend yourself. Instead you're writing love letters to Anne.

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At least we got to the bottom of this. It should be obvious now that Ralph is scum.

I'd like to encourage people to vote SLOWLY. We're getting to the point where we really need to think through this.

So... Anne was town. Lindsey didn't have any issue switching her vote, and overall didn't seem to care much who was killed. I still think Lindsey is scum.

Betsy being town should've been obvious based on the fact that Scott has been kept around despite not being here.

Well, I obviously think I'm the best candidate for TCC, so I'll vote yes. But everyone should take their time. I also don't distrust Robert more than anyone else at this point. But if I understand correctly, if this government fails, I still can be TCC, right? It's just Robert who can't eb mayor anymore.

Maybe Betsy asked to be taken out, but Scott just didn't show up? I don't know if it means he's scum, but it could mean he's the godfather. Bob can't take the godfather out of the game. Either way, we can't make him TCC anyway. Even in the best case the government just fails because he's not reporting in.

I agree about Lindsey. She passed a scum policy, then wanted to kill an inactive player, and had no problem killing someone instead who is now a confirmed townie. She also didn't really give us any opinion of herself, just "town doesn't like me killing Scott, so I kill Anne".

I wrote a goodbye love letter to Anne, and she's simply "Out of Town"?

I formally object. As this is a beta game, Bob, I would like to suggest a proper funeral for our deceased Anne. She deserves it.

And I think that just proves you're scum. Three people have accused you of being scum and you haven't even tried to defend yourself. Instead you're writing love letters to Anne.

Obviously he is. He asked to be killed yesterday. His only defense is playing the lunatic by now. But you now know that I didn't lie about my investigation, unlike him. There should be no more doubt now.

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I'd like to encourage people to vote SLOWLY. We're getting to the point where we really need to think through this.

So... Anne was town. Lindsey didn't have any issue switching her vote, and overall didn't seem to care much who was killed. I still think Lindsey is scum.

Betsy being town should've been obvious based on the fact that Scott has been kept around despite not being here.

I think it's fairly obvious that Joshua is town at this point, and he's the least likely person here to be the Godfather. Are you urging us to vote slowly because you think I'm scum, or what? I understand we need to avoid electing the Godfather as TCC, but Joshua is not the Godfather so it's fine...

I agree with you on Lindsey's scumminess. To be honest, I don't trust anyone anymore except myself and Joshua.

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I think it's fairly obvious that Joshua is town at this point, and he's the least likely person here to be the Godfather. Are you urging us to vote slowly because you think I'm scum, or what? I understand we need to avoid electing the Godfather as TCC, but Joshua is not the Godfather so it's fine...

I vote No. There's something not right here.

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I vote No. There's something not right here.

Can you elaborate? Is it only that Robert is pushing for people to vote quickly? Or is it the lack of opposition from any scum members? This is something that concerned me, I feel like they should push harder to do something at this point, given how close they are to winning. Or do you have a problem with me as TCC or Robert as mayor?

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I vote No. There's something not right here.

I'm not sure I'm liking this, we know all the scum have to do is nominate the GF as TCC and they win. We're trying to get the most townie person we know as TCC and you're saying we shouldn't?

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I don't trust Robert and after reading through a bunch of the past days I just feel uncomfortable with him. Call it a gut feeling if you want. I can't really say that I have any sort of hard evidence or smoking gun on this. I reread his calling out of Ralph yesterday for his scummy no vote, and it just didn't seem genuine.

I really wish more people would elaborate on their opinions here about folks.

I'm not sure I'm liking this, we know all the scum have to do is nominate the GF as TCC and they win. We're trying to get the most townie person we know as TCC and you're saying we shouldn't?

If we assume that Ralph and Lindsey are both scum for now, then that leaves 2 other scum out there. I've got more suspicions than I do trusts, which may just be the nature of this game. Regardless, I don't like the way today is going. It seems like every time we go with the majority opinion it's wrong. If you're so confident this is the right move, why haven't you voted?

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My bet is that if our mayor was scum, he'd not nominate the godfather first day first time, but that's just my current working hypothesis.

I've been busy the last few days, so I'm going to withhold my vote until I've had time to get a grip on the current situation. However, my current instinct is to vote yes.

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Can you elaborate? Is it only that Robert is pushing for people to vote quickly? Or is it the lack of opposition from any scum members? This is something that concerned me, I feel like they should push harder to do something at this point, given how close they are to winning. Or do you have a problem with me as TCC or Robert as mayor?

I don't think the scum can do anything at this point, since opposing the vote would draw attention to themselves, as Christina is doing.

I don't trust Robert and after reading through a bunch of the past days I just feel uncomfortable with him. Call it a gut feeling if you want. I can't really say that I have any sort of hard evidence or smoking gun on this. I reread his calling out of Ralph yesterday for his scummy no vote, and it just didn't seem genuine.

You're entitled to your own gut feelings, but if this government fails, the only other person I'm sure is town (Joshua) won't be in a position of power - but then again, if you're scum that is what you want isn't it? It looks like the scum's role this game (as per Ralph) is sowing seeds of distrust here and there, and making us doubt other townies (such as Ralph's fake investigation result on Joshua). Tell me, Christina, who would you rather be Mayor/TCC if not myself and Joshua? 'Cause I'm sure scum are going to do everything they can to ensure that the Godfather - or, failing that, a regular scum - is installed as Mayor/TCC. If my government fails, then another mayor will be randomly selected; with 10 alive, the new mayor will be chosen from 8 of us (ruling out Joshua and myself) - either a 3/8 or 50% chance of them being scum (depending on whether there are 3 or 4 scum alive). And if they are scum, then it's game over as they will elect the Godfather as TCC.

If we assume that Ralph and Lindsey are both scum for now, then that leaves 2 other scum out there. I've got more suspicions than I do trusts, which may just be the nature of this game. Regardless, I don't like the way today is going. It seems like every time we go with the majority opinion it's wrong. If you're so confident this is the right move, why haven't you voted?

How are you so certain there are four scum?

Let's say you're right, and there are four scum. If Lindsey is scum then it's likely that both Edward and Patricia are town, because town policies were passed when she was in government with the two of them. With Ralph being scum number two in that case, the third scum would be between you, Scott, Erik, Michael and me. I know I'm town, and Scott hasn't posted for days (so no reads on him can be gotten) - also, he was Lindsey's first kill choice, so he's unlikely to be scum if she is. So you, Erik and Michael. Erik and Michael passed a town policy together, so they're not both scum. Which leaves you as scum number four. If there are four scum and Lindsey is one of them, then it's Ralph, Lindsey, Christina and one of Erik and Michael.

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I don't trust Robert and after reading through a bunch of the past days I just feel uncomfortable with him. Call it a gut feeling if you want. I can't really say that I have any sort of hard evidence or smoking gun on this. I reread his calling out of Ralph yesterday for his scummy no vote, and it just didn't seem genuine.

But even if you think Robert is scum. I think a scum mayor wouldn't want too nominate the GF immediately after 4 policies were passed. The town know what the scums' win condition is and nominating the GF would set alarm bells ringing and would definitely cast suspicion on the mayor and elected TCC in question. I think a scum mayor would want to wait a day until they brought the GF in.

And even if, worst case scenario, Joshua is scum, the worst thing that could happen is a mafia policy passing, and the reveal of another alignment. But I don't think Joshua is scum, a scum investigating another town player as town instead of clearing the GF doesn't make much sense. It could happen, just unlikely.

I vote YES to this government.

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I don't think the scum can do anything at this point, since opposing the vote would draw attention to themselves, as Christina is doing.

You're entitled to your own gut feelings, but if this government fails, the only other person I'm sure is town (Joshua) won't be in a position of power - but then again, if you're scum that is what you want isn't it? It looks like the scum's role this game (as per Ralph) is sowing seeds of distrust here and there, and making us doubt other townies (such as Ralph's fake investigation result on Joshua). Tell me, Christina, who would you rather be Mayor/TCC if not myself and Joshua? 'Cause I'm sure scum are going to do everything they can to ensure that the Godfather - or, failing that, a regular scum - is installed as Mayor/TCC. If my government fails, then another mayor will be randomly selected; with 10 alive, the new mayor will be chosen from 8 of us (ruling out Joshua and myself) - either a 3/8 or 50% chance of them being scum (depending on whether there are 3 or 4 scum alive). And if they are scum, then it's game over as they will elect the Godfather as TCC.

And here you're sowing misinformation. Voting down this government does not prevent Joshua from being selected as mayor by random chance or as TCC by the next selected mayor. The TCC can't be a member of the previous government, but a failed vote doesn't count for that, AFAIK.

I would be happy with either Edward or Joshua as mayor. Myself, too, of course, but I understand why people wouldn't trust me. Of course, I've been one of the few people this entire time to suggest that people think beyond the group think that everyone else has followed. If that's scummy, so be it.

How are you so certain there are four scum?

Let's say you're right, and there are four scum. If Lindsey is scum then it's likely that both Edward and Patricia are town, because town policies were passed when she was in government with the two of them. With Ralph being scum number two in that case, the third scum would be between you, Scott, Erik, Michael and me. I know I'm town, and Scott hasn't posted for days (so no reads on him can be gotten) - also, he was Lindsey's first kill choice, so he's unlikely to be scum if she is. So you, Erik and Michael. Erik and Michael passed a town policy together, so they're not both scum. Which leaves you as scum number four. If there are four scum and Lindsey is one of them, then it's Ralph, Lindsey, Christina and one of Erik and Michael.

I think there are 4 scum based on the Secret Hitler rules available at BGG. This is not the first time I've suggested it but it's the first time anyone has had any qualms with the suggestion. The rules there suggest a game of 10 have 6 townies.

I don't think Edward and Lindsey are both scum because of Day 1, so I'm comfortable with Edward. I disagree with the idea that Scott is necessarily town because Lindsey wanted to kill him. He's AWOL, so his absence doesn't hurt anyone and it would've left the situation with Ralph/Joshua/Anne unresolved. I think the reason Scott hasn't been booted from the game is because he's scum.

But even if you think Robert is scum. I think a scum mayor wouldn't want too nominate the GF immediately after 4 policies were passed. The town know what the scums' win condition is and nominating the GF would set alarm bells ringing and would definitely cast suspicion on the mayor and elected TCC in question. I think a scum mayor would want to wait a day until they brought the GF in.

I don't agree with this suggestion at all. This is exactly when the scum would want to get the GF in power because it ends the game a day earlier than otherwise. Once they've passed 5, it doesn't matter which scum is the TCC as long as they get 1 scum policy. They pass it, they win.

That said, I did not suggest that Joshua is the GF.

And even if, worst case scenario, Joshua is scum, the worst thing that could happen is a mafia policy passing, and the reveal of another alignment. But I don't think Joshua is scum, a scum investigating another town player as town instead of clearing the GF doesn't make much sense. It could happen, just unlikely.

The worst thing that can happen is that the GF is the TCC and we lose. The next worst is what you describe with a scum mayor, who then has control over who dies. That is actually pretty bad. We need to make sure we have a town mayor.

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His only defense is playing the lunatic by now.

To be fair...I've been the lunatic the entire time!

At least I'm consistent.

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Considering the unlikeliness of drawing 3 scum cards, as well as my trust for this tcc, I vote yes.

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Considering the unlikeliness of drawing 3 scum cards, as well as my trust for this tcc, I vote yes.

The odds of that could be as high as 50%. Do you know something we don't?

You're assuming neither Christina nor Lindsey are scum, when Robert lists them both as people he thinks are.

Why is that?

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The odds of that could be as high as 50%. Do you know something we don't?

You're assuming neither Christina nor Lindsey are scum, when Robert lists them both as people he thinks are.

Why is that?

We know that we had 2-3 scum cards yesterday and likely 1 scum card the day before, even factoring in the quite plausible chance for lies. So if the scum team is in the mayoral position, the chance of them getting 3 scum cards is slim.

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We know that we had 2-3 scum cards yesterday and likely 1 scum card the day before, even factoring in the quite plausible chance for lies. So if the scum team is in the mayoral position, the chance of them getting 3 scum cards is slim.

Repeating something doesn't make it true.

Being certain of something is either scummy or dumb.

I'll ask again. How do you know?

Do you think Robert is right in saying Christina and Lindsey are scum or not? If he is right, which is more likely, that they drew scum cards and discarded them or drew town cards and discarded them?

Do you thin kRobert is wrong about Christina and Lindsey? If so, what else is he wrong about?

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I don't think the scum can do anything at this point, since opposing the vote would draw attention to themselves, as Christina is doing.

Well, I think they need to try at the very least. We know I am town, and if you are too, we are almost certain to pass the fourth town policy after this. So I think either Robert or Christina is scum. Either they were lucky and Robert became mayor, or they were not, he's town and they are getting desperate.

You're entitled to your own gut feelings, but if this government fails, the only other person I'm sure is town (Joshua) won't be in a position of power - but then again, if you're scum that is what you want isn't it? It looks like the scum's role this game (as per Ralph) is sowing seeds of distrust here and there, and making us doubt other townies (such as Ralph's fake investigation result on Joshua). Tell me, Christina, who would you rather be Mayor/TCC if not myself and Joshua? 'Cause I'm sure scum are going to do everything they can to ensure that the Godfather - or, failing that, a regular scum - is installed as Mayor/TCC. If my government fails, then another mayor will be randomly selected; with 10 alive, the new mayor will be chosen from 8 of us (ruling out Joshua and myself) - either a 3/8 or 50% chance of them being scum (depending on whether there are 3 or 4 scum alive). And if they are scum, then it's game over as they will elect the Godfather as TCC.

As Christina said, this is false. I am still eligible, and maybe I would be better as mayor than as TCC. Then again, we really don't want the TCC to be the godfather.

Let's say you're right, and there are four scum. If Lindsey is scum then it's likely that both Edward and Patricia are town, because town policies were passed when she was in government with the two of them. With Ralph being scum number two in that case, the third scum would be between you, Scott, Erik, Michael and me. I know I'm town, and Scott hasn't posted for days (so no reads on him can be gotten) - also, he was Lindsey's first kill choice, so he's unlikely to be scum if she is. So you, Erik and Michael. Erik and Michael passed a town policy together, so they're not both scum. Which leaves you as scum number four. If there are four scum and Lindsey is one of them, then it's Ralph, Lindsey, Christina and one of Erik and Michael.

I think Christina is actually right in that Scott makes a good kill target for scum Lindsey even if he's scum himself. He is not going to do anything to further the scum cause, so maybe she was trying to whack him in order to buy credibility for herself. We can be certain that if she is scum, he is not the godfather, but that's about it. I don't think the fact he wasn't taken out logically implies he is scum, though.

I would be happy with either Edward or Joshua as mayor. Myself, too, of course, but I understand why people wouldn't trust me. Of course, I've been one of the few people this entire time to suggest that people think beyond the group think that everyone else has followed. If that's scummy, so be it.

I wouldn't mind Edward as mayor either, but I won't vote myself down on the off-chance that Edward is chosen at random.

I don't agree with this suggestion at all. This is exactly when the scum would want to get the GF in power because it ends the game a day earlier than otherwise. Once they've passed 5, it doesn't matter which scum is the TCC as long as they get 1 scum policy. They pass it, they win.

I don't want to think too highly of myself, but I'm pretty sure any TCC other than myself would have been a huge red flag (which is fitting, given that Lexington once was taken over by communists; good times). So I doubt we can infer anything about Roberts allegiance from his choice as TCC. The worst that could happen is that a scum mayor passes the fifth scum policy, kill someone (either Ralph to play along, or me if they don't bother anymore) and are close to winning. I don't think both Ralph and Robert would be on the same scum team, so either he is the godfather or he is a townie and the scum is now trying their best to fail a government that will most likely pass a town policy. I'm happy with my vote where it is.

To be fair...I've been the lunatic the entire time!

At least I'm consistent.

I gotta admit, it's true. In a previous life I was a pyromaniac in an asylum, so I can relate. We should have a beer sometime. Preferably before we kill you and your team. Or "make you leave the town". Which raises and important question: If the scum just leaves the town, what stops them from forming a new mafia in another town? Is Lexington's judicial system simply "not my problem anymore"? Normally, the mayor would have to step down over such allegations, but since the last properly elected mayor died they have been changing on a daily base anyway, who cares.

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And here you're sowing misinformation. Voting down this government does not prevent Joshua from being selected as mayor by random chance or as TCC by the next selected mayor. The TCC can't be a member of the previous government, but a failed vote doesn't count for that, AFAIK.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, sorry if I misled you accidentally. Bob, could you please clarify whether this is the case?

I don't think Edward and Lindsey are both scum because of Day 1, so I'm comfortable with Edward. I disagree with the idea that Scott is necessarily town because Lindsey wanted to kill him. He's AWOL, so his absence doesn't hurt anyone and it would've left the situation with Ralph/Joshua/Anne unresolved. I think the reason Scott hasn't been booted from the game is because he's scum.

Are you referring to the Betsy situation here? As far as I understand, Betsy asked to leave the game and said she couldn't play anymore, so she was removed. Scott has not said anything, so he stays in the game. I'm not sure I've ever actually seen someone get kicked from a Eurobricks mafia game for being AFK...

The worst thing that can happen is that the GF is the TCC and we lose. The next worst is what you describe with a scum mayor, who then has control over who dies. That is actually pretty bad. We need to make sure we have a town mayor.

Yesterday, we as town forced Lindsey to kill the communal choice (Anne) rather than her own choice (Scott). With a hypothetical scum mayor, this would be the same situation: they would be forced to kill whoever the town wanted, instead of choosing who they liked and outing themselves as scum. However, I'm not scum, and so I will gladly kill whoever the town wants, within reason.

We know that we had 2-3 scum cards yesterday and likely 1 scum card the day before, even factoring in the quite plausible chance for lies. So if the scum team is in the mayoral position, the chance of them getting 3 scum cards is slim.

1 scum card the day before? If I remember correctly, Christina and Patricia's government passed a scum card the day before yesterday; if there was only 1 scum card, as you say, then they are both scum...

Do you think Robert is right in saying Christina and Lindsey are scum or not? If he is right, which is more likely, that they drew scum cards and discarded them or drew town cards and discarded them?

Do you thin kRobert is wrong about Christina and Lindsey? If so, what else is he wrong about?

I never said Lindsey was scum, my discussion of a possible scum team was based on Christina's hypothesis that Lindsey was scum. Sure, I find both Christina and Lindsey scummy, but there's nobody I'm certain is scum except Ralph.

Well, I think they need to try at the very least. We know I am town, and if you are too, we are almost certain to pass the fourth town policy after this. So I think either Robert or Christina is scum. Either they were lucky and Robert became mayor, or they were not, he's town and they are getting desperate.

It's clearly the latter option, but I can only see one desperate person, Christina. So maybe you're right, and she is scum, or maybe she's just a paranoid townie who suspects me and is inadvertently doing the scum's work for them.

I just hope that at least one town policy is in the deck this time. Last time I was TCC I had no choice but to pass a scum policy. This time the game hinges on it, and I'm confident in your towniness so we'll hopefully have a town policy passed today.

As Christina said, this is false. I am still eligible, and maybe I would be better as mayor than as TCC. Then again, we really don't want the TCC to be the godfather.

Okay, sorry, I wasn't aware of that. But I agree, if you were mayor, anyone you chose might be the godfather, or a random scum. It's now late game, and I'm expecting the scum to be making some pretty risky plays, such as deliberately passing a scum policy as TCC when they have a choice between scum and town...

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Yesterday, we as town forced Lindsey to kill the communal choice (Anne) rather than her own choice (Scott). With a hypothetical scum mayor, this would be the same situation: they would be forced to kill whoever the town wanted, instead of choosing who they liked and outing themselves as scum. However, I'm not scum, and so I will gladly kill whoever the town wants, within reason.

Though there is a difference between the fourth and the fifth scum policy passed. And, of course, the target. I guess the scum wasn't overly reluctant to kill Anne, at least the investigated townie is dead. And if they had opposed the public yesterday, they still would have had to pass two more policies, while after the fifth they might be close enough to winning that killing a proactive townie might be more beneficial than playing town. Especially if the latter means killing one of their own. And after the fifth scum policy there are no kills left, so there is less room for punishment even if the godfather is known to us.

Either way, I don't really believe you will discard a town policy, otherwise I wouldn't vote yes, obviously. Let's just hope for the best.

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