No Bionicle in 2017 confirmed

[Aanchir]

We knew since day 1 that two characters named Ekimu and Makuta existed in the story. We even saw them in the animations. We knew we were gonna get them physically sooner or later.

And by January 2015, with the reveal of the Ekimu set, it was 100% guaranteed.

One thing is sure: we were promised the mask of ultimate power, they even showed it to us literally last week.

But we will never get it.

That's inexcusable.

None of those things you mentioned even comes close to amounting to a promise or a guarantee. There were all kinds of characters and creatures in the Bionicle G1 story that didn't become sets (Makuta's Matoran form from the Mata Nui Online Game, various other Matoran characters like Kotu and Tamaru, various Rahi from video games and online games, Graalok the ash bear, the mutated Kikanalo from the 2005 Bionicle comics, the Mata Nui robot), and even all kinds of things in the Ninjago TV series that haven't become sets (the Serpentine moving fortress, the Overlord's dragon form from the Season 2 finale, various Stone Army vehicles like the Tusk Invader and Hover Glider, Borg Industries mechs, Borg Tower, Master Chen's blimp, the Preeminent from the Season 5 finale). If those sorts of things amount to "promises", then LEGO has been breaking promises left and right for well over a decade.

LEGO is fully at liberty to show us things, even important things, and not release them as sets, particularly when they're forced to end a line prematurely due to weak sales and don't realistically have any other choice. Do you honestly expect ANY company to design and release a product, fully expecting it to be unsuccessful, just to fulfill "promises" they never actually made?

Edited July 31, 2016 by Aanchir

[Fulcrumfan91]

Hey Dorek, did the Bionicle team at least show you any concept art or models of potential Bionicle 2017 sets? If so, what is your opinion of what could have been? Of course, if this is confidential information, then just ignore the question. I'm just really curious about the potential designs of sets. :D

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Unfortunately, that was the idea; the video was definitely not intended to be released until after the episodes had been shown.

The video itself seems deliberately crafted to avoid mentioning the actual end of the line, but maybe that backfired and somebody thought it was okay to post since it didn't give away the "big secret".

Ah okay, that definitely changes things. Very odd that it happened. In that case I'm not so sour about the lack of a mask or Makuta set, but it's still disappointing nonetheless. Like I said before timing can really change how certain videos come off, now instead of coming off as false hope it now comes off as a fan-interactive celebration. Brings my spirits back up, so thanks for clarifying that!

For sake of posting someone is working on a shapeways MoUP on Deviantart ( http://cezium97.deviantart.com/art/3D-Printable-Mask-of-Ultimate-Power-625069022 ) I don't take any credit for this btw. Will order one or two when V2 is released and the compatibility is verified.

[Dorek]

Hey Dorek, did the Bionicle team at least show you any concept art or models of potential Bionicle 2017 sets? If so, what is your opinion of what could have been? Of course, if this is confidential information, then just ignore the question. I'm just really curious about the potential designs of sets. :D

If they were able to get to some concepting before the discontinuation, they didn't show us; I suppose there's an off chance something might be in the art book (I didn't get a look at EVERYTHING in that) but I doubt there was much to show, sadly.

Ah okay, that definitely changes things. Very odd that it happened. In that case I'm not so sour about the lack of a mask or Makuta set, but it's still disappointing nonetheless. Like I said before timing can really change how certain videos come off, now instead of coming off as false hope it now comes off as a fan-interactive celebration. Brings my spirits back up, so thanks for clarifying that!

For sake of posting someone is working on a shapeways MoUP on Deviantart ( http://cezium97.deviantart.com/art/3D-Printable-Mask-of-Ultimate-Power-625069022 ) I don't take any credit for this btw. Will order one or two when V2 is released and the compatibility is verified.

Excellent, I'm glad somebody is working on that. I had been trying to see if anybody was willing to take up the task, but I don't know any 3D modelers! I'll definitely order myself a few copies once it's been finalized. Maybe some BS01 giveaways...

[MrHerofan]

At least there is someway to now get the MoUP.

So Dorek I know this will be a silly question but did they mention how long it would take to create a whole new theme? I know that sets are made at least a year in advance, so I was wondering how long it would take for something to replace Bionicle, if at all.

[TwistLaw]

None of those things you mentioned even comes close to amounting to a promise or a guarantee. There were all kinds of characters and creatures in the Bionicle G1 story that didn't become sets (Makuta's Matoran form from the Mata Nui Online Game, various other Matoran characters like Kotu and Tamaru, various Rahi from video games and online games, Graalok the ash bear, the mutated Kikanalo from the 2005 Bionicle comics, the Mata Nui robot), and even all kinds of things in the Ninjago TV series that haven't become sets (the Serpentine moving fortress, the Overlord's dragon form from the Season 2 finale, various Stone Army vehicles like the Tusk Invader and Hover Glider, Borg Industries mechs, Borg Tower, Master Chen's blimp, the Preeminent from the Season 5 finale). If those sorts of things amount to "promises", then LEGO has been breaking promises left and right for well over a decade.

LEGO is fully at liberty to show us things, even important things, and not release them as sets, particularly when they're forced to end a line prematurely due to weak sales and don't realistically have any other choice. Do you honestly expect ANY company to design and release a product, fully expecting it to be unsuccessful, just to fulfill "promises" they never actually made?

It doesn't make any sense to compare obscure characters or things that can be recreated very easily with what would have been the most important piece of BIONICLE G2's third year, if not of all the reboot.

Ending a line like BIONICLE in such a way is an exception in LEGO's history, something that makes me wonder if they really hoped to get stellar revenues out of poor marketing. They literally decided to end it in 2015, and in my humble opinion giving such little time to a theme like BIONICLE sounds greedy. They prefered to have a whole year without CCBS-exlcusive themes rather than giving BIONICLE a decent ending.

By the way this post you made last May raises many interesting questions, since this is exactly what I thought until last week. They must have had sales figures already available in 2015, otherwise things get a little more complicated.

[Dorek]

At least there is someway to now get the MoUP.

So Dorek I know this will be a silly question but did they mention how long it would take to create a whole new theme? I know that sets are made at least a year in advance, so I was wondering how long it would take for something to replace Bionicle, if at all.

"Conventional" development time, as I was told, can be around 18 months. With a new theme, it's probably longer, which is why I'm not expecting anything until 2018.

For what it's worth, I was told both Christian Vonsild and John Ho had moved on to different product lines, but there was no mention of what Cerim Manovi was doing, so my hope is that means there's plans for a new line in the works =)

[Hisstori]

It doesn't make any sense to compare obscure characters or things that can be recreated very easily with what would have been the most important piece of BIONICLE G2's third year, if not of all the reboot.

Ending a line like BIONICLE in such a way is an exception in LEGO's history, something that makes me wonder if they really hoped to get stellar revenues out of poor marketing. They literally decided to end it in 2015, and in my humble opinion giving such little time to a theme like BIONICLE sounds greedy. They prefered to have a whole year without CCBS-exlcusive themes rather than giving BIONICLE a decent ending.

*snip*

By the way this post you made last May raises many interesting questions, since this is exactly what I thought until last week. They must have had sales figures already available in 2015, otherwise things get a little more complicated.

I agree. Sales might not be the only reason for Bionicle's cancelation. I have a feeling G2 may be a proverbial speedbump for a new theme in the works similar to how HF was for CCBS. Edited July 31, 2016 by Leewan

[Lord-Vorahk]

I'm going to copy my post from TTV onto here, to express why I'm disappointed with the line's ending, or rather, how it was handled.

There are some comments expressing gratitude that JtO managed to at least tie up the story cleanly given the limited budget and rushed ending. And I agree! Those two episodes of JtO were very enjoyable, certainly much better than any of the G1 movies. And the majority of G2's sets were a glorious way to see the characters of our childhood expressed through more modern and updated functions and designs.

The reason that I feel betrayed and let down by the ending of G2 is not because we won't be getting more sets or story content, but because there is nothing left behind for us to cling on to.

Look back at G1's ending. Yes, the Stars were an atrocity. Yes, we moaned (and are still moaning) about those unfinished online serials. So G1's ending had some rough edges. It was definitely rushed. But it left behind infinite potential for imagination, for creativity, for fanfics and MOCs and everything the community needed to survive. It left behind a whole planet full of diverse characters. Some were heroes, some were villains. Some had been around since '01, while others we had just met. Some could proudly claim to exist in physical form in the households of children around the world, while others were conceived in the mind of Greg Farshtey and existed only in words. We had MUians and Bara Magnans, strong warriors and humble villagers, Vortixx, Skakdi, Steltians, and Skrall. We had some greater evils like the Shadowed One's new collection of villains, and some lesser evils like Strakk, an outcast and a thug.

Do you know why my profile picture is Ehlek? Look more closely. He's missing something. His spines. Ehlek was already a waterbreather before he was thrown into the Pit, so when the Barraki were mutated, his only change was to grow spines on his back. And when Mata Nui cured everyone and everything that had been twisted out of its natural shape, Ehlek was therefore the only Barraki to now be represented as a set. All the others had been returned to their original forms, and we don't know what they look like. So to me, Ehlek represents a perfect example of the potential for uniqueness and personality that every G1 Bionicle character has. He was just some random villain from '07, part of a team of six, just like always... and then Carapar died, and Takadox turned traitor, and they made an alliance with the Order, and then with the Shadowed One, and--- do you see what I'm getting at? G1's characters had the potential to be more than what the set design teams and marketing department wanted them to be. They could sell toys, make money, and still create a world for children (and adults) to explore and generate their own ideas in.

G2, in contrast, leaves behind only a single island, populated by one species, with precisely fifteen at-large individual characters released as sets: the Protectors, the Creatures, and Ekimu, who isn't even his powered-up form anymore. The Toa are gone. Agil is gone (and it's not even clear why!). We have the names of exactly two non-set villagers: Harvali and Bingzak. There's a scarcity of villains, too: all of the villains to receive individual names and personalities are either trapped under rubble in a sealed-off cave (Kulta and Axato), or imprisoned by magic runes which they'll never escape from in the Mask Maker's Forge (Skull Basher), or dead (Lord of Skull Spiders and Umarak).

Oh, wait, I guess that means Skull Slicer's still around. Great, except that he has never talked, he has no personality (we're not even sure if he's sentient), and all of the source information on him is conflicting or nonexistent. (Hook Blades fused to hands? Under the control of LoSS? And why does he have four arms?) And even if the villains that had personality, like Kulta and Umarak, were still around to cause trouble, or even if the Skull Spiders and Shadow Traps suddenly gained sentience and started crafting elaborate plots to assassinate Ekimu, at the end of the day, they're all two-dimensional, because every single villain in the series (after Umarak's transformation) was just a servant of the one Big Bad. No unique characters like Takadox or Roodaka or Malum, loyal only to themselves, willing to work for the villain if it will benefit them, but equally willing to stab him in the back just to make a quick profit.

"But Duplex!", you say. "This means we can create the story ourselves! We can think of other islands, other hidden threats on Okoto, anything we want!" Guess what? We could do that with G1 too. We always could. With the vast planet of Spherus Magna and the hidden depths of the Matoran Universe, there was always the potential for a determined fanfic writer to create whatever they wanted, to find some undiscovered place where an undiscovered creature or species lurked. The rich roster of G1 characters and locations provided a backbone that fans could expand with their own ideas however they chose. And yes, there's nothing stopping you from doing that with the scraps that remain of G2 as well. But it's not the same. It never will be, and we all know it.

I just went on Amazon and purchased, from various retailers, the remaining Protectors and Creatures that I don't have. Some, like Narmoto and Ketar, are in my opinion not very good sets, and I would not have bought them otherwise. But they're all we've got left. It's just sad that the failings of G2's story and worldbuilding are ultimately the same problems that leave us now, that the line has ended, with a bland, unfulfilling Okoto with limited creative potential.

THIS. So much THIS.

I never got into G2 MOCing. I made one model, and then tore it down and rebuilt the sets I'd dismantled to make it. I just found the universe simultaneously too stifling and too thin to use, just like HF. Thin because the lore was so bare-bones and you'd have to invent everything to make it work, and stifling because everything was very, very specific. The torso prints and masks were explicitly tied to the characters, and rather than providing a unique secondary power, they were elemental in nature. We basically got Great and Noble versions of the same six masks, except all the Noble ones were identical. This is like G1 having no alternate masks and all of the Turaga having a Huna. And even then, the masks that the Toa were advertised as wearing didn't do anything- They were powerless until they got the golden ones. Okoto did not feel like a universe that I could work with, it was a single location with no real memorable organisations, factions, or even characters. This got worse in 2016- The masks were still elemental, but were now dual-coloured, which severely decreased their usefulness in MOCs (Want to use the Golden Unite Mask of FIre? Better include some trans-red-orange or it'll look like an eyesore!), and the chestpieces were now a solid printed thing with no room to customize, with the unique Nuva symbol printed on them.

THe villains were extremely underwhelming, which is a disappointment because G1's villains were so good. They weren't just Saturday Morning Cartoon antagonists (Heck, the G2 villains don't even compare to some of those guys), each of them had their own personality and traits, as well as feeling like a group. Characters like Sidorak, Roodaka, the Piraka, the Barraki, and especially the 08 Makuta were so memorable because of their personalities. Federation of Fear was awesome because it took a bunch of these characters and put them in a Suicide Squad-esque story, with some excellent interactions and dialogue. The Mutran Chronicles is an excellent story and look at the history of the Brotherhood from the eyes of the delightfully witty mad scientist. And this is all without mentioning Makuta Teridax, who, to this day, is my single favourite villain of all time, and one of my favourite characters. G2's antagonists just did not hold up.

At best, G2 has provided me with an interesting supplement for G1, some new Matoran, a meh Rahi, and some post-2010 Toa Nuva.Tahu has his golden armour, Lewa has his shoulder spikes, they still have metallic armour pieces, and Pohatu is orange-y.

[Pate-keetongu]

I think the difference - the big difference - between G2 and G1 marketing and the attractiveness of the sets was the catalogue marketing. At least until 2006. Remember those spreads in the catalogues, with no set information at all, just sheer Faber graphic design genius, impressive CGI for the time, true feel of legends unfolding. Those catalogues were like sacred artifacts back then, I remebered the new bits of Bionicle story by heart. We got internet in 2007. I remember seeing some set online before the catalogue - fist must have been 2003 Makuta - But I'll always remember the feel of the new catalogue being finally found in a toy store. I always cheked the Bionicle story page first to see what adventures our heroes would face this time.

I stopped taking those instructions few years back, so I can't say if there's cool promotional spreads about G2 sets in them, but I suppose not. And I neither have any sense if "kids today" find them as exciting as me back in the early years of this millenia. But after they ceased to do those spreads without actual set information - I think it was with Piraka - the theme began to feel somewhat... Ordinary? Commonplace? Something like that.

There wasn't much G2 promoting overall in Finland. Most stores didn't have all the sets, and couple of creatures of this year weren't even released, or that's what I heard. At least they dubbed the netflix show or at least some animations: A couple of months back I was sitting in a bus, travelling to Helsinki to take part in entrance exam to some university, and took of my earphones and listened a bit; kid on the seat front of me was watching something that, deriving by the lines, couldn't be anything else that the new bionicle (skull spiders were mentioned). I think it was silly and I slumped back to my odd Finnish music.

Of course the main reason I found G1 more attractive than G2 was that I was 7 at the time and now I'm on my early twenties and not that interested in plastic warriors; Or, I'm very interested in plastic warriors given than they are designed by meself and not anyone can get them by walking into a store. It just isn't the same thing any more, getting a new set. I'm getting boring, probably.

Federation of Fear was great, by the way.

[DraikNova]

THIS. So much THIS.

I never got into G2 MOCing. I made one model, and then tore it down and rebuilt the sets I'd dismantled to make it. I just found the universe simultaneously too stifling and too thin to use, just like HF. Thin because the lore was so bare-bones and you'd have to invent everything to make it work, and stifling because everything was very, very specific. The torso prints and masks were explicitly tied to the characters, and rather than providing a unique secondary power, they were elemental in nature. We basically got Great and Noble versions of the same six masks, except all the Noble ones were identical. This is like G1 having no alternate masks and all of the Turaga having a Huna. And even then, the masks that the Toa were advertised as wearing didn't do anything- They were powerless until they got the golden ones. Okoto did not feel like a universe that I could work with, it was a single location with no real memorable organisations, factions, or even characters. This got worse in 2016- The masks were still elemental, but were now dual-coloured, which severely decreased their usefulness in MOCs (Want to use the Golden Unite Mask of FIre? Better include some trans-red-orange or it'll look like an eyesore!), and the chestpieces were now a solid printed thing with no room to customize, with the unique Nuva symbol printed on them.

THe villains were extremely underwhelming, which is a disappointment because G1's villains were so good. They weren't just Saturday Morning Cartoon antagonists (Heck, the G2 villains don't even compare to some of those guys), each of them had their own personality and traits, as well as feeling like a group. Characters like Sidorak, Roodaka, the Piraka, the Barraki, and especially the 08 Makuta were so memorable because of their personalities. Federation of Fear was awesome because it took a bunch of these characters and put them in a Suicide Squad-esque story, with some excellent interactions and dialogue. The Mutran Chronicles is an excellent story and look at the history of the Brotherhood from the eyes of the delightfully witty mad scientist. And this is all without mentioning Makuta Teridax, who, to this day, is my single favourite villain of all time, and one of my favourite characters. G2's antagonists just did not hold up.

At best, G2 has provided me with an interesting supplement for G1, some new Matoran, a meh Rahi, and some post-2010 Toa Nuva.Tahu has his golden armour, Lewa has his shoulder spikes, they still have metallic armour pieces, and Pohatu is orange-y.

Huh, I felt G2 was more stifling to work with MOC-wise than Hero Factory, since HF had a wide-open universe with the existence of many other hero teams established. I mean, compare the settings, a small island vs. a galaxy that presumably contains about 100 billion stars with several times that many planets, moons and other locations, assuming it's an average galaxy.

On the positive side, G2 was rife with good recolors for making HF MOCs.

[Lord-Vorahk]

Huh, I felt G2 was more stifling to work with MOC-wise than Hero Factory, since HF had a wide-open universe with the existence of many other hero teams established. I mean, compare the settings, a small island vs. a galaxy that presumably contains about 100 billion stars with several times that many planets, moons and other locations, assuming it's an average galaxy.

On the positive side, G2 was rife with good recolors for making HF MOCs.

HF was stifling to me because the helmets were character-specific, save for the 2.0, which, while they were more generic, were also a bit naff. A red hero would pretty much always look a lot like Furno.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

It doesn't make any sense to compare obscure characters or things that can be recreated very easily with what would have been the most important piece of BIONICLE G2's third year, if not of all the reboot.

Ending a line like BIONICLE in such a way is an exception in LEGO's history, something that makes me wonder if they really hoped to get stellar revenues out of poor marketing. They literally decided to end it in 2015, and in my humble opinion giving such little time to a theme like BIONICLE sounds greedy. They prefered to have a whole year without CCBS-exlcusive themes rather than giving BIONICLE a decent ending.

*snip*

By the way this post you made last May raises many interesting questions, since this is exactly what I thought until last week. They must have had sales figures already available in 2015, otherwise things get a little more complicated.

Then G2's cancellation was an inside job in the works since the leaks first came out in 2014? Maybe it was retribution for our leaky sins.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Leewan

[xboxtravis7992]

With all the lamentation over the lack of a Mask of Ultimate Power, I wonder if a future Constraction line could release it as a generic villain mask? Kind of similar to how Von Nebula used a recolored G1 mask.

[GK733]

With all the lamentation over the lack of a Mask of Ultimate Power, I wonder if a future Constraction line could release it as a generic villain mask? Kind of similar to how Von Nebula used a recolored G1 mask.

The connection is so specified and the mask so special I don't see it being released unless the spiritual successor is some form of continuation.

[Logan McOwen]

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Can't help but feel he hit the nail on the head.

And that alt ending would have made everything so much less depressing. Such a simple change and suddenly I realise how backwards the whole thing is. Ekimu's character suddenly is ruined in the space of an episode.

[The Outsider]

Yeah, it feels like when Linkara "fixed" One More Day with two small changes. It's disappointing that a single fan can think of a better story than a team of writers that do this for a living.

And upon watching that video, I can think of another issue with G2: the app marketing didn't really link to the toys. Think about the examples he gave with LEGO, Ultra Agents and Nexo Knights: the app game requires you to buy the toy. And I don't know how well they sell or sold, but a Transformers line with a similar premise (Robots in Disguise) has recently gone from "two seasons and a couple TV movies" to "confirmed third season and rumored fourth"; unless the third and fourth season are actually the TV movies split into episodes, I'd say that's pretty good.

BIONICLE, on the other hand, didn't have that. The app games and webisodes were basically interactive commercials: they showed the toys and what they did, but they didn't involve them in any way. And just because you like a commercial doesn't mean you'll necessarily buy the product.

[xboxtravis7992]

Although Nickon's tone of voice is a bit more negative than my thoughts are, I agree with most of what he said. Something about G2 failed bad, either marketing or the toy just didn't resonate with kids anymore. There are a few things I didn't agree with but not a lot.

I do agree the sour attitude of the community was really bad the last few months. While I think many of us saw the writing on the wall saying the theme was doing badly some way or another, the fans who crammed that into other's throats and were happy when G2 ended have been annoying to say the least. Also the fans who viewed G1 as sacred and infallible, with G2 being a sin; where ludicrous.

With that said, I have come to the desicion G2 gave us far better 'canister' sets than G1 did. I wish G2 lasted a little longer to allow us to get a proper Titan or Vehicle set, but alas I will leave it to the community to work that out. If I ever master the Technic system, I hope to someday build some cool Toa vehicles!

[One Very Agile Cat]

This thread makes me sad, especially that post by Duplex.

I don't hate G2. I'm not gonna lie and say it was great, or even good. It was aimed at such a young audience, but even then it was simplistic. But yeah, whereas G1 felt like even if the story was over, the universe still lives on. But now that we're finished on Okoto, it feels like nothing else is really gonna happen. It feels incidental, like a tall tale, which I suppose makes the end of JtO fitting. It was just a fairytale with no real depth aside from the recanting of events and most surface level character moments. Something easily condensed for the sake of young listeners. It's almost amusing how self aware it seems.

I only wish we didn't have the assumption/announcement of a three year plan. We may not have been "promised" a MoUP, but it and Makuta are unmistakably noticeable omissions from the lineup when they were so integral to the story. Maybe I just don't feel like hating things for being things anymore, but I'd have virtually zero animosity towards G2 if it's end was less sudden. I mean I still don't hate it. It wasn't an "insult" or anything towards G1, it was just a brief reboot. Harmless, somewhat entertaining, and you can still tell that underneath all the mandates and pitiful budgets, the people actually creating it cared. As much as Faber or Farstey? I don't think that's a fair comparison, but they did care.

At least I got some cool sets out of it. I really do love my 2015 Toa, and the Protecters, Umarak's, etc. To me, it's like an AU story that got a toy line.

[DuckBricks]

Oh yes. I love Nickon, mostly because I really agree with all his Bionicle videos, and this is no different. I have to heartily concur with his sentiments - and face the truth that Gen2 really must have flopped. I did my part, as he said, and bought every set on launch day, but the truth is that people like me who did that only bought them because of our familiarity with Gen1 and the characters.

[ZORK64]

As someone who was mostly interested into G2 Bonkles for the parts (I feel this way about most constraction lines, though I did like the very open feel of Hero Factory's setting), my only gripe with the series ending is that we have no idea of what will come next - as of now, we don't even know for sure if LEGO has already prepared another constraction line, ready to be released in late 2016/early 2017.

That being said, I appreciated G2 for the sets it gave us. Not only did they offer plenty of new parts (which were also helpful when mixing G1 with HF CCBS), but they also expanded upon Hero Factory's design with new and interesting builds.

Also, to be completely frank, I couldn't care less about that unique mask. It's not a design that interests me that much. Though it's of course a bummer for all the mask collectors out there.

Edited August 13, 2016 by ZORK64

[CM4Sci]

Well, obviously, no BIONICLE in the catalog this year from what I heard. No replacement either

[TheLastToaofLight]

Well, obviously, no BIONICLE in the catalog this year from what I heard. No replacement either

Any constraction at all?

[Mesonak]

Any constraction at all?

Probably just three more Star Wars Buildable Figures.