Brick Built Sails: a symposium

[kurigan]

Trying something new here, join in and show your support!

Though I am a proponent of functional cloth sails myself I am still fascinated and often impressed my brick-built sails on Lego ships. For a static model, it’s often a superior way to capture action or suggest motion while maintaining Lego purity in a MOC. Unlike most everything else about Lego ship building though there is little to no convention on the matter. We even give names to the different hull building techniques, write tutorials on cloth sail making and keep indices to categorize all the different ships and elements. So my intent here is to start a discussion and gather examples with which to create that convention for ourselves and encourage the pursuit in future builds.

To start things off I’m going to reference two museum displays which, sadly, are no more, but have very impressive sails.

I shared this Schooner some time ago and was informed in the original topic that it was no longer there. These are some of the best I’ve personally seen, with very realistic bolster and bellies. The more impressive thing is that it appears to be using all Lego elements to support all that.

I stumbled across this carrack the other night and it too was part of a museum's display, but the Canadian Science and Technology Museum has sadly closed its doors. The hull here is rather impressive in its own right but the sails here are very convincing. Form the one image I can find I can’t tell what the masts are made of.

LEGO® Ferdinand Magellan by Canada Science and Technology Museum, on Flickr

It looks like that same schooner came from or wound up in the same display.

Both of my examples here raise the question: can an all Lego rig support all Lego sails? What do you all think?

Go ahead and add your own examples.

If anyone knows the creator’s of these MOCs, please get us in contact with them or at least make them aware of this post. We’d love to have their input on the discussion.

[Cousarmy0001]

Both of my examples here raise the question: can an all Lego rig support all Lego sails? What do you all think?

I, personally, don't like brick built sails because of the studs, though in my book they're tolerable if they're depicting furled sails. As for your question, I would think a smaller sail set, like the carrack's, might be able to be supported purely by other Legos, but I question whether a large set like on the schooner could be built with any degree of sturdiness without involving glue or some other form of "cheating".

[BrickCurve]

Wow, brick built sails being this effective is a new one for me! When I saw the title I was prepared for them to be not that impressive when compared to cloth ones. How wrong I was!

[Captain Spyro]

I have to agree with Cousarmy0001's opinions on brick built sails. I don't think brick built sails would be very sturdy on a large ship. The only way I could think of for good support would be the use of technic bricks internally for the sails, which would mean that the sails would be too thick perhaps.. IMHO brick built sails would be very sturdy only for mini-scaled ships.

[kurigan]

This is starting to feel like a bit of a miss-fire, but come on mates; the prevailing sentiment can't be all negative. Who actually likes the idea?

There's got to be someone out there who's seen such a build and though "hey, there's a good idea" or "wow, that looks impressive". Come on out of the woodwork, give your two cents. How about someone who's actually built something of the like? I know you are all out there, join in!

I did reach out to the museums mentioned but have not heard back, so the original builders of my examples remain a mystery.

[ejred]

I've wanted to try it sometime, but haven't yet. (Edit: well, i was doing brick built sails on my pre-teen lego boats in the early 1980s, but they were not super sophisticated)

I've shared similar fears expressed by others that it wouldn't be sturdy without "cheats" of some kind. I very much wonder about those cool models you posted.

Standing rigging might help the masts bear up, but then that sort of feels like an odd pairing with brick sails? On the other hand, i guess stays would be necessary anyway for brick built fore and aft sails...

Finally I must admit to being annoyed when people make pretty brick sails in LDD that are just floating in space :)

Edited July 21, 2016 by ejred

[TitusV]

Awesome sails! I'd love to see more

[Capn Frank]

The schooner's sails look like they're usually more than one brick thick. That's a lot of weight. The model definitely never traveled to any conventions.

Finally I must admit to being annoyed when people make pretty brick sails in LDD that are just floating in space :)

I was too, until I realized that you can't really make your own custom sails in LDD. There's no fabric or paper.

KB and Dunkleosteus do a great job at floating, plate sails.

[kurigan]

Finally I must admit to being annoyed when people make pretty brick sails in LDD that are just floating in space :)

Wo there cully. It's one thing to have an opinion, but let's not go slandering our mates. That certainly was never the intent here, and we don’t want to seem exclusive. What is your particular concern with floating sails, since you've brought it up. Only seems fair that you offer a little more by way of explanation so long as your naming names as example.

[Cousarmy0001]

It was Phred that named names.

(Edit: unless that was before the edit. Sorry.)

Edited July 22, 2016 by Cousarmy0001

[kurigan]

It was Phred that named names.

(Edit: unless that was before the edit. Sorry.)

My mistake, you are correct sir. looks like EJRED has some company under the bus .

Apologies.

Still though, lets hear a little more on the matter.

[ejred]

Wo there cully. It's one thing to have an opinion, but let's not go slandering our mates. That certainly was never the intent here, and we don’t want to seem exclusive. What is your particular concern with floating sails, since you've brought it up. Only seems fair that you offer a little more by way of explanation so long as your naming names as example.

Not much more to say really-just a personal pet peeve. LDD is neat, but when used to make designs that can't really be built then it doesn't seem like LEGO anymore to me, might as well use Photoshop.

But if that's your thing, then go for it-- I'll restrain myself from commenting.

And at least I did put a smiley!

The schooner's sails look like they're usually more than one brick thick. That's a lot of weight. The model definitely never traveled to any conventions.

I wish I could look from all angles :D

[Mike S]

I don't really think this works very well for minifig scale. Even scaling down with the use of plates for sails, I still prefer fabric for minifig scale. In my opinion, brick built sails only look good on massive ships that your average EB user won't have the bricks for. I consider this more of a professional technique for a model that would be put on long term display in a public venue.

[kurigan]

Not much more to say really-just a personal pet peeve. LDD is neat, but when used to make designs that can't really be built then it doesn't seem like LEGO anymore to me, might as well use Photoshop.

But if that's your thing, then go for it-- I'll restrain myself from commenting.

And at least I did put a smiley!

I wish I could look from all angles :D

No need to feel restrained or chastised, in fact, thanks for stepping up. Perhaps I should have used some smiles my self. I'm just trying to encourage the sharing of ideas and opinions with out anyone feeling picked-on or harassed. I know those guys are pretty ok with criticism as I've had conversations with them on their own threads, but what about outsiders or potential members? So to everyone, not just you (bad thanks for being my lighting rod), do, share, comment. Be critical if you are so moved, just don't assume that everyone knows your basically-a-good-guy and do take that extra moment to explain yourself.

I don't really think this works very well for minifig scale. Even scaling down with the use of plates for sails, I still prefer fabric for minifig scale. In my opinion, brick built sails only look good on massive ships that your average EB user won't have the bricks for. I consider this more of a professional technique for a model that would be put on long term display in a public venue.

I see your point. You can see some figs on the Carrick and its clear by that comparison that these are rather impracticality large MOC for private purposes. I know either one would take up all my space.

Perhaps I picked bad examples, but isn't there anyone out there with a MOC to prove the theory, or at least enough spare bricks to give it a shot?

[Captain Green Hair]

I didn't see this topic coming from one of our most non-purist builders

[kurigan]

Hey now… It’s totally true , but I can still have respect for the thing, even if I don’t subscribe. Purism has value in certain realms, particularly where direct comparison is key or where promoting the brand is concerned.

I too distinctly remember seeing good examples offered here before but upon pursuing the MOC Index once again found very few at all. I did find these three good examples offered up in a similar discussion on Classic Castle. Though they are medieval rigs and far simpler than most of what you’ll see around here I think they show some merit. It seems it can be done, on at least a limited scale.

Check em out:

Lomero

Stone-Goblin

Hippotam

The topic where I found them

In my searching I also found this old CP topic form back in 2006. DO NOT bump it, please, but take a look. I found it interesting that many of the same sentiments were expressed back then.

Perhaps the community just isn’t going to accept brick-building sails as a viable option, but I argue that there simply hasn’t been enough development. At one point the CGH method was seen as the pinnacle of Lego ship building, but since then his work has inspired many builders to approach the craft from different perspectives and as a result we’ve now have several new techniques emerging. I’m not ready to close the books on this just yet, not even with old hearts-of-oak like the captain himself as proponents against it.

[Cousarmy0001]

Almost all of those are either cogs or triremes, though. They're all quite well done, but these ships are also quite small, with equally small sails. Making the larger sailing vessels of the late 1600s to mid 1800s like we generally do in this thread would be more difficult, I think. The sails and rigging that we portray on this thread are much larger and far more complex. I think trying to do this purely out of Lego on the scales that we usually work with here would be much more challenging.

Out of curiosity, how much trouble would I be in if I bumped that thread, just to spite you, Kurigan?