Secret Enemies - Day Two

[Chromeknight]

But that's very risky, passing four mafia policies accounts for a kill which, whilst may be useful, only helps the scum achieve their goal.

I quite agree. Town should never pass scum policies if they have a choice, not even to get powers to use against the scum.

Anyone who says they had a choice and picked the scum policy to get the powers is a lying scumbo.

[fhomess]

Remember that while the mayor is important, we have only limited control over who the mayor is. The mayor is selected randomly. We can reject a mayor, and we should if they have previously passed a scum policy, but we're not guaranteed to get a town mayor after that.

From my point of view, I know I'm town so me being TCC would be immensely preferable to a person of unknown alignment being TCC, as they could well be scum. As I said before, switching governments helps scum, as they benefit from governments failing and they can vote tactically to prevent townies from becoming the TCC (since they know who is town and who isn't)

Switching governments doesn't necessarily help scum. It only helps them if the prior government was not in their control. It can hurt them if it wasn't. Not switching governments hurts town because we lose the chance to see who other people would nominate. As the game goes on and scum policies get passed, we're going to have more reason to distrust people and more reason to be cautious about getting the government right but no more information on which to go on. We have flexibility early on that we won't later.

If Joshua is scum then Robert is town. There is no point stacking the council yet, the Mayor controls what the TCC sees, so can manipulate it so a townie must pass a scum policy. Or he could be the GF being set up to appear townie by passing a town policy.

Nonsense... a stacked council can pass whatever they like and lie about what they saw to suit their needs.

Anyone who says they had a choice and picked the scum policy to get the powers is a lying scumbo.

Or rather, they'd be an honest scumbo. Dumb and scum as some might say. The mayor gets the power, but the TCC is the one that gives it to them.

[Chromeknight]

Nonsense... a stacked council can pass whatever they like and lie about what they saw to suit their needs.

Yes, but. My statement wasn't that it'd never happen, it was that there's no need to do it now, when the scum are trying to appear town so as not to be outed and marginalised.

[JackJonespaw]

Yes, but. My statement wasn't that it'd never happen, it was that there's no need to do it now, when the scum are trying to appear town so as not to be outed and marginalised.

Technically, if the mayor is scum, he could lie about the policies, right? For instance, if he gets 1 Town 2 Mafia, he takes out the Town and tells the TCC that he had 3 Mafia cards.

[fhomess]

Technically, if the mayor is scum, he could lie about the policies, right? For instance, if he gets 1 Town 2 Mafia, he takes out the Town and tells the TCC that he had 3 Mafia cards.

Yes. I fully expect scum mayors to lie about the 3rd card they got at some point. By the time the deck runs out, we should have a sense for whether or not we were lied to at some point, but I'm not sure yet how easy it will be to figure out which mayor lied.

[jluck]

I think I just realized some strategy to this game. We don't know much, but we do know how many cards we started with and we know that the policy that is passed is discarded. So we have a pretty good idea of what cards are likely to be passed handed to the mayor. For example, this time it's highly unlikely that the mayor receives 3 town policies. As the game progresses it'll be more and more difficult for the government to lie about what cards they got. Probability should play a big role in our decisions.

I know this is an obvious observation, but I can't think of much more strategy involved here.

[Bob]

"I've decided which card to place down." Robert said.

The crowd looked on as a Mafia policy was placed on the ground!

~~~

One mafia policy has been passed! This means that the mayor is allowed to investigate one player!

The Mayor and the Town Council Chair are now able to post again in this thread.

[Chromeknight]

So.

Let the lies and fingerpointng begin.

Clearly there weren't three town policies in play. And likely not two, since that would mean both Joshua and Robert both discarded town policies and out themselves both as scum.

Will Joshua say he gave Robert one of each (to which Robert must cry liar!) or will Robert post first saying he was given no choice and was handed two scum policies leaving Joshua to cry liar! Or protest that, against probability he was given three scum policies and also had no choice.

Which will it be?

[Dragonfire]

I was given two Mafia policies.

Either Joshua (regardless of alignment) was given three Mafia policies, or he deliberately discarded a town one, in which case he is scum. I'm sure that he'll claim the former, rather than accuse me of lying about my policy choice.

[Peanuts]

Robert is telling the truth, I handed down two scum policies to him. I was given three scum policies myself, so I had no choice. I decided to use the investigation I was given on Anne Martin/Mediumsnowman, and apparently I was wrong about her, she is town.

[jluck]

So Anne should be tomorrow's TCC.

[mediumsnowman]

Yep, I'm town. Told ya.

With the deck distribution it is inevitable that three scum cards be drawn, so I'm inclined to believe our government is telling the truth.

I agree with the sentiment that I be elected TCC, as I am confirmed by the investigation result.

[Peanuts]

So Anne should be tomorrow's TCC.

I agree with that. Best thing would be to install her as TCC as often as possible from now on.

[Tariq j]

I agree with that. Best thing would be to install her as TCC as often as possible from now on.

Indeed, although one person can't be town chairmen two days in a row so possibly every other day.

[Dragonfire]

Robert is telling the truth, I handed down two scum policies to him. I was given three scum policies myself, so I had no choice. I decided to use the investigation I was given on Anne Martin/Mediumsnowman, and apparently I was wrong about her, she is town.

Hang on a minute, doesn't it say in the rules / C&D thread that you had to post your decision publicly after a communal discussion? Anyway, Anne is likely to be town (unless of course you're scum and faked the result)

Indeed, although one person can't be town chairmen two days in a row so possibly every other day.

Where does it say that? It only says that the Mayor cannot be the previous day's Mayor/TCC, not that the TCC can't.

[Peanuts]

Hang on a minute, doesn't it say in the rules / C&D thread that you had to post your decision publicly after a communal discussion? Anyway, Anne is likely to be town (unless of course you're scum and faked the result)

Does it explicitely say that? I can't find it, neither that we can discuss nor that I have to share my result. I guess it doesn't say that we can't discuss, so maybe I jumped the gun here.

Where does it say that? It only says that the Mayor cannot be the previous day's Mayor/TCC, not that the TCC can't.

Well, since I just read the rules again:

Neither the Mayor nor the Town Council Chair can be a member of the previous day's government.

[fhomess]

Only the kill action needs to be submitted publicly for discussion according to the rules. I think submitting the investigation action to the public for scrutiny would've been a townie move, but it doesn't appear to be required.

Day 1:

Mayor - Edward

TCC - Lindsey

Cards - Mafia, Mafia, Town

Town passes

Day 2:

Mayor - Joshua

TCC - Robert

Cards - Mafia, Mafia, Mafia

Mafia passes

Joshua investigates Anne - she is town

Remaining Cards: 5 Town, 6 Mafia

At the moment, I'm inclined to believe the current regime, but I think there are a few steps that need to be taken to mitigate against the possibility of a scum plot.

First, neither of today's regime should be selected as TCC (or Mayor) by a future mayor.

Second, Anne is installed as TCC whenever possible until/unless she enacts a mafia policy.

The odds of all three cards coming up as mafia are quite a bit lower tomorrow, so hopefully we'll be in good shape.

[Khscarymovie4]

I think it is possible for Anne to be town, but I could definitely see this as a scum plot to make other scum look less suspicious.

[Actor Builder]

I think it is possible for Anne to be town, but I could definitely see this as a scum plot to make other scum look less suspicious.

That is a point, and I think a good one! If we can't trust Mayor or TCC because of the Malicious Mafia Pass, can we trust the Investigated Citizen?

On the other hat, If we can trust the Mayor, then we can absolutely trust the Investigated Citizen!

So, I vote Betsy for Mayor! She's out of town, so she can do the Town no harm!

[jluck]

I think it is possible for Anne to be town, but I could definitely see this as a scum plot to make other scum look less suspicious.

Id say it's 99% likely this isn't a scum ploy. If the government was scum and they fake investigated another scum to clear one person, that ties all 3 of them together. Meaning if one goes down, they'd all go down. It just seems far too unlikely.

Did the mayor and the TCC both receive the investigation result, or just the mayor?

Here's a possible scenario, the mayor is scum. He got 2 Mafia and 1 town card and discarded the town card. He the used his investigation to clear a scum-bud. That seems plausible to me, especially if the mayor was the only one to receive the investigation result.

[Chromeknight]

That's using your brain.

Remember. The scum know who the GF is but he doesn't know who they are.

They want to clear the GF so the town will install him (her) as TCC later in the game, which gives them the instant win.

Robert doesn't need to be scum for that to have gone down. In fact, it's better if he's not, makes him a patsy.

[Bob]

This day is now concluded. Day Three will be up Bob sucks.