Itaria No Shintaku

Is anyone else fearing that Nexo Knights is meaning NO new castle them

Will TLG produce historic castle themes in your opinion while Nexo Knights is in production?  

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  1. 1. Will TLG produce historic castle themes in your opinion while Nexo Knights is in production?



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Right, but you quoted me when you didn't have to. What was the point of dissecting what I said when you could have just said it yourself?

Because it was referencing part of something you said.

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Because it was referencing part of something you said.

And in doing so, you made it seem like I was saying something I wasn't. No hard feelings, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't do that.

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The problem with Castle is that they do keep rehashing the same sets. If they were to explore other options, like Forestmen, Wolfpack, and civilian sets like Mill Village Raid, they would diversify their Castle lineup and keep it from getting stale and repetitive.

Exactly. Same thing with Pirates. They literally rehash the same 5-6 sets every few years. It's really lame. At least this way we get 3 years off and maybe LEGO can think of something new to do or even if it is a rehash we will have grown to miss them.

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That doesn't say anything about Nexo Knights because they didn't release until January 2016. It would be interesting to see the 2016 Report.

The 2016 Annual Report probably won't be out until March 2017, since it encompasses the results for the entire year, but the LEGO Group's interim (half-year) result tends to be announced in September, so it won't be long before we get a bit of news on how the sets from the first half of this year have been doing. For instance, last year's interim result didn't give us as much detail about what the top themes and sets were as the annual report, but it did call out several themes like City, Creator, Technic, Star Wars, and Ninjago for contributing to the double-digit sales growth over that period, and also specifically mentions that Elves and Jurassic World made a positive impression with their launch waves. The interim result was also the first place it was publicly announced that Ninjago was now evergreen (the news had previously been shared here on Eurobricks from the LEGO Group's employee magazine, but those magazines aren't available to the public).

Anecdotally, it seems to me that Nexo Knights has been received positively, but I haven't seen any indication of the sort of record-shattering performance LEGO Ninjago or LEGO Friends had in their first years. That goes for both the sets and the TV show.

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I think too that the theme sells well, maybe except for the ultimate figures that are quite expensive.

The castle on threads looked cool on launch and a lot of kids would go for it, and it wasn't insanely priced.

But overall I can't get a grip on that theme, I don't like the color scheme and characters. The villains are the only midly interesting thing offered and they are already getting very stale; Lava and Rock monsters next? Aren't they already very similar? I don't even think the other products like the game and TV show are that succesfull, I watched a couple episodes and some gameplay and it left me cold.

But realistically speaking I think we are stuck with that theme, and for a good while sadly.

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Ah yes, I hate Nexo Knights with a passion. These sets are (mildly spoken) a complete eyesore! But this is also a good wake-up call for everyone. People who had complaints about the 2013-line might re-evaluate their opinion after suffering three long years with Nexo Knights. :innocent:

Some people will probably be more grateful with what is given to them once the next Historical Theme is out. When the 2013-line was introduced, we were all kind of spoiled, we had seen soo many castle themes through the years, we couldn't imagine there would be anything WORSE. Then came Nexo Knights. Talk about game-changer!

However, as a Classic Castle-fan, I'm kinda puzzled by one thing though; I have spotted arguments about how NK and Ninjago are about "the characters". And most importantly about "the series", which in turn, seems to be some sort of justification of the entire themes existance. We must love Ninjago and Nexo Knights, because, you know.. there's a TV Show about them and they have CHARACTERS IN THEM!

But! Who says there can't be:

A) A TV show with a historical setting?

B) A historical setting with memorable characters?

A) Good Historical stuff that are not fantasy, dragons or castles on wheels?

Just some elaborations. Don't take it all too seriously. We're all LEGO-friends, ain't we?

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Don't think its really accurate to base set sell rates off shelves, I know europe is very heavy on webshop sales, which are often cheaper then physical stores at least over here (not counting special sticker discounts you just have to happen to run into).

I know most physical toy stores in my region actually sell sets at or above lego.com price, with only the smallest category of sets ending up in more generic discount stores.

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Again, I think we'll be more likely to hear more about Nexo Knights' performance when the interim results are announced next month. For now, the only thing I've heard about Nexo Knights in terms of actual performance is that the Nexo Knights magazine is the UK's top-performing new magazine title for the first half of 2016, although its sales haven't risen to the same level of sales as the Star Wars and Ninjago magazines. I have no idea whether sales for these magazines would correlate directly to things like sales of the sets or TV viewership, let alone whether Nexo Knights is more or less popular in other parts of the world.

However, as a Classic Castle-fan, I'm kinda puzzled by one thing though; I have spotted arguments about how NK and Ninjago are about "the characters". And most importantly about "the series", which in turn, seems to be some sort of justification of the entire themes existance. We must love Ninjago and Nexo Knights, because, you know.. there's a TV Show about them and they have CHARACTERS IN THEM!

But! Who says there can't be:

A) A TV show with a historical setting?

B) A historical setting with memorable characters?

A) Good Historical stuff that are not fantasy, dragons or castles on wheels?

I can't think of any strict reason there COULDN'T be a LEGO cartoon with a more historical setting, although TV networks and other media partners are often big on novelty, so might be more enthusiastic about "classic genre with a wacky modern twist" than just "classic genre played straight". Also, the "tween" age range that Nexo Knights and Ninjago target (slightly older than the age range for general City/Castle/Pirates) also generally respond well to that sort of mash-up since it gives them the sense of being something that no kids have seen or played with before, as opposed to the kind of toy or storyline that's been around for decades. Even though there have been previous attempts at "cyber-knight" series like Visionaries, seven-year-olds aren't as likely to have heard of them as they are to have heard of more traditional knight storylines, so Nexo Knights will still convey that sense of novelty. So to achieve peak popularity, a more historical LEGO cartoon might need to be aimed slightly younger, at an audience that isn't so used to classic traditional knights-and-dragons stories.

Also, on a personal note, I kind of like the way the more wacky modern themes tend to be more character-driven and the way the "classic themes" remain more archetypical and open-ended. It sort of makes them feel more faithful to their roots that way. I realize that might be hypocritical of me, though, since the themes I personally collect are almost always the more character-driven ones. So while it comforts me to know that more open-ended and less character-driven themes exist, I'm not really in much of a position to vouch for them.

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I just had a dream last night:

We get pictures of 2017 and the Juniors line has a Castle subtheme.It's like Kingdoms.The first wave come with four sets(the biggest is the castle) and the summer wave come with other four sets.I wish that wasn't a dream :laugh: .

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I just had a dream last night:

We get pictures of 2017 and the Juniors line has a Castle subtheme.It's like Kingdoms.The first wave come with four sets(the biggest is the castle) and the summer wave come with other four sets.I wish that wasn't a dream :laugh: .

Juniors has done Castle sets before, but I don't know about it doing ANY sort of subtheme that large... Usually a given franchise gets two sets per wave, at best, and the theme as a whole seems to go for variety over any heavy focus on one theme over another.

That said, one or two Castle Juniors sets next year is totally within the realm of possibility (especially since the previous Juniors castle will be two years old by then).

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one or two Castle Juniors sets next year is totally within the realm of possibility (especially since the previous Juniors castle will be two years old by then).

Sadly, they would likely be Nexo Knights sets rather than proper Castle sets.

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Also, on a personal note, I kind of like the way the more wacky modern themes tend to be more character-driven and the way the "classic themes" remain more archetypical and open-ended. It sort of makes them feel more faithful to their roots that way. I realize that might be hypocritical of me, though, since the themes I personally collect are almost always the more character-driven ones. So while it comforts me to know that more open-ended and less character-driven themes exist, I'm not really in much of a position to vouch for them.

Thank you for your insightful post. There's some things in there I can't say I agree about, but I can at least understand your mindset. I brought the question up, partly because I couldn't understand how Characters could be the main argument for keeping the brand "futuristic and strange". Now I understand these arguments better. But I also happens to have some Comic Books with small LEGO comic strips. I found them very intriguing and funny and it made me want for more. These are from the mid eighties, but I would love if LEGO would come up with some medieval history setting with memorable characters and stories. If they don't - I WILL! :wink: I still believe in medieval characters and settings, and I do believe it's all about how you portray the world and mastering the storytelling.

Edited by AViewToALego

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Thanks for the discussion. I have enjoyed reading the opinions.

Just to toss in some input from an old classic castle guy. Lack of castle sets and now Nexo Knights threw me into a mini dark age. I have barely built anything or bought anything in the last 12 months. I have mostly abandoned these forums. I am still going to conventions and active in my LUG. However, TLG has nothing that has inspired me since Kingdoms. 2013 castle and LOTR sets were useful for me and I bought a lot, but they have been off the shelves for over a year.

The Cinderella castle is what brought me back to visit. It is a nice set. However, heraldry, figures, and new molds are what get me excited the most. Nothing makes me want to build like having a new faction of knights to make a kingdom for. I suppose the CMFs offer a little inspiration. However, hundreds of clones of the same minifig do not make a faction for me. I need a little variety to make my MOCs look good.

Nexo Knights are nice enough for what they are, a theme aimed at young boys. When I was young I liked the classic castle theme. I am not sure if I was young again whether I would enjoy Nexo Knights? I do know that both Ninjago and Nexo Knights draw kids away from castle themes so they will not run them together.

I think that Ninjago actually even hurt LOTR sales. I know the target audience is different but minifigs with swords and hand to hand combat skills has crossover appeal. Castle fans were attracted to the ninja theme back in the late 90's. It is obvious many castle kids were drawn to Ninjago. If Ninjago wasn't available I would imagine LOTR and other castle sets would sell much better.

I will note this. With Ninjago now being an evergreen theme, and if Nexo Knights is successful, the castle themes we were used to are going to be a rare sight on shelves. I am thinking that things have changed for the near future and possibly forever. I would guess that the castle theme's presence will be spotty for a prolonged period of time. This makes me sad, but even with as much LEGO as I buy, I know that I am not the target audience.

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The Cinderella castle is what brought me back to visit. It is a nice set. However, heraldry, figures, and new molds are what get me excited the most. Nothing makes me want to build like having a new faction of knights to make a kingdom for. I suppose the CMFs offer a little inspiration. However, hundreds of clones of the same minifig do not make a faction for me. I need a little variety to make my MOCs look good.

The Cinderella Castle set is really nice. I'm having trouble justifying the price to myself, let alone my other half. I will probably just BrickLink the things I do like, but it's disappointing to see that those shields are stickered rather than printed.

I agree on the CMF comment, though. Great Castle minifigures, but lots of repetition and little variety.

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Dale, you nailed it. Especially as it pertains to little interest at retail impacting building and forum participation. I'll probably always build on my own, but there is just no grist for the mill presently.

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I will note this. With Ninjago now being an evergreen theme, and if Nexo Knights is successful, the castle themes we were used to are going to be a rare sight on shelves. I am thinking that things have changed for the near future and possibly forever. I would guess that the castle theme's presence will be spotty for a prolonged period of time. This makes me sad, but even with as much LEGO as I buy, I know that I am not the target audience.

Forever is a powerful word. Ten years, max. Ninjago can and will die out, and it will happen sooner than later. They're already clearly running out of ideas, and I don't think a reboot will go over well with the original fans.

Nexo Knights is planned for three years, it will be off the shelves by 2019/2020 even if it gets an extension due to popularity, which could happen.

Castle will come back one day. The Castle fans of today are in the same position as the Castle fans from 1997-2007, but were rewarded with five years of strong sets and two classic sub themes, and well as gems from the lines in that bracket.

Also, feel free to post on these boards anytime you want. It's pretty dead in here right now, and we could use a lively discussion about....something. :laugh:

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Forever is a powerful word. Ten years, max. Ninjago can and will die out, and it will happen sooner than later. They're already clearly running out of ideas, and I don't think a reboot will go over well with the original fans.

I disagree about that. I haven't seen any indication that the Ninjago team is running out of ideas. If there's any weakness to the current wave, it's probably due to them having to develop it more hastily than usual due to the movie (originally scheduled for Fall 2016) being delayed a year. A similar thing happened when they decided to continue Ninjago in 2014 — it was on too short notice to commit the same amount of development time they'd normally have for a new year of sets and stories, so the 2014 sets were weaker than usual, but by 2015 they were back on track and it ended up being one of their five top-selling themes.

There's been some grousing about the movie being a separate continuity with different voice actors, but I haven't seen any indication that this will change the course of the TV series. Some people speculated that "Day of the Departed" (the 2HY 2016 story arc with the returning villains) would be a "grand finale", but we now know for certain that this is not the case, because they've already announced the 1HY 2017 story arc "The Hands of Time", which will focus on Kai and Nya and involve them learning more about their parents.

Moreover, I don't think there's any sense in thinking that a separate movie universe will hurt the theme as a whole. When the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie came out in 1990, they had already existed in comic books for six years and in cartoons for three. All three forms of media had separate continuities, but starting fresh with the movie didn't jeopardize any of them. In fact, the movie ended up getting two sequels in 1991 and 1993, the cartoon series ended up getting six more seasons from 1991 to 1996, and the comics persisted all the way to 2014!

So I fail to see how a Ninjago movie that starts fresh with a separate continuity from the TV series is expected to deal a killing blow to the existing continuity and its fanbase. Ninjago might die out one day, but I don't see any signs that it's already moving in that direction, and the movie strikes me as an indication that Ninjago is growing, rather than on the verge of decline.

All that said: I don't exactly see Ninjago being a huge threat to the future of LEGO Castle. After all, if LEGO had the confidence to invest heavily in launching Nexo Knights, which is more similar to Ninjago than past Castle themes, then why would they or their fans consider Ninjago and traditional Castle, or Ninjago and The Lord of the Rings, too similar in subject matter to coexist? Ninjago has no more in common with Castle, The Lord of the Rings, or The Hobbit than with Nexo Knights, Legends of Chima, or Elves, all of which have experienced respectable success.

Ninjago has also proven itself to be highly mutable. If LEGO wants to launch a new Castle theme without competition from Ninjago, they just have to differentiate the corresponding waves of Ninjago to be that much less castle-ish. It's the same as how they have managed to keep diving, space, and mining subthemes of City (another long-running, massively successful theme that dabbles in very diverse subjects) visually and contextually distinct from themes like Atlantis, Galaxy Squad, and Power Miners.

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All that said: I don't exactly see Ninjago being a huge threat to the future of LEGO Castle. After all, if LEGO had the confidence to invest heavily in launching Nexo Knights, which is more similar to Ninjago than past Castle themes

I know it's context and perspective...but I'm pretty sure the success of Ninjago is EXACTLY why Nexo Knights exist in the first place, rather than an actual Castle theme. So in a sense....Ninjago was, and remains, a big threat to current and future Lego Castle.

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There's been some grousing about the movie being a separate continuity with different voice actors, but I haven't seen any indication that this will change the course of the TV series. Some people speculated that "Day of the Departed" (the 2HY 2016 story arc with the returning villains) would be a "grand finale", but we now know for certain that this is not the case, because they've already announced the 1HY 2017 story arc "The Hands of Time", which will focus on Kai and Nya and involve them learning more about their parents.

Here's what I was getting at. Ninjago literally just brought back every villain ever for this wave, and when almost every franchise does this it is an indication that said franchise is over, or is rebooting. Does Lego play by those rules? No! They could have just rebooted with the movie, but instead we have next year's January wave, which, in my opinion, is a shameless cash grab. Lego already made evil, red and black stone samurai. Do we really need evil, red and black human Samurai?

This iteration of Ninjago has run its course. It was already brought back once, and next year looks like another hastily put together extension. I'm sure it can go on for several more years, but eventually the fans are going to get sick of seeing the same thing over and over again with virtually no change.

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City churns out the same thing every few years, it's still hugely popular with long-time fans and the new kids. Could Ninjago be the same?

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City churns out the same thing every few years, it's still hugely popular with long-time fans and the new kids. Could Ninjago be the same?

And for that matter, why is Castle different? Fans expect demand something fresh each wave.

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Here's what I was getting at. Ninjago literally just brought back every villain ever for this wave, and when almost every franchise does this it is an indication that said franchise is over, or is rebooting. Does Lego play by those rules? No! They could have just rebooted with the movie, but instead we have next year's January wave, which, in my opinion, is a shameless cash grab. Lego already made evil, red and black stone samurai. Do we really need evil, red and black human Samurai?

This iteration of Ninjago has run its course. It was already brought back once, and next year looks like another hastily put together extension. I'm sure it can go on for several more years, but eventually the fans are going to get sick of seeing the same thing over and over again with virtually no change.

That's a big assumption to make. This is toys we're talking about, after all. Look at other long-running toy lines like Transformers, TMNT, and My Little Pony. On a conceptual level, they repeat themselves all the time, and yet you don't see any kind of mass exodus of fans. Their longevity is based on ensuring they bring in new fans at the same rate old fans leave. Also, just because LEGO hasn't rebooted the story when you expected them to doesn't mean they will never have another opportunity. Tommy Andreasen has said on Twitter that he'd be open to rebooting the story if it ever becomes stale. So far, though, it doesn't seem like it has. The toys are still selling remarkably well and the fan community is quite strong. The fact that Ninjago continues to revisit past ideas doesn't mean the creators have run out of ideas. It just means that they still see new potential in ideas they've touched on before.

"Rebooting the series with the movie" sounds like an OK idea at face value, but doing so would have probably meant either closing the door on future Ninjago movies or closing the door on future Ninjago TV seasons. It's pretty difficult to run a movie series and a TV series concurrently if they take place in the same universe and focus on the same cast of characters. And production issues aside, having the movie universe completely take the place of the existing TV universe would have generated widespread animosity for the movies among the theme's existing fanbase, whereas by keeping them separate it's more likely that fans will eventually come around to appreciate them as different universes that don't jeopardize one another's existence.

And for that matter, why is Castle different? Fans expect demand something fresh each wave.

I don't think Castle is all that different than City or Ninjago in that respect, to be honest. As much as the designers try to make each wave unlike the one immediately before it, they also aren't afraid to revisit the core ideas from past years whenever they see new potential in them. The thing that sets Castle apart from City and Ninjago is mostly that in the past decade or so it hasn't been able to sustain the same year-on-year sales. Which means that instead of coming out wave after wave like clockwork, the Castle theme has hiccups every few years when the previous take on Castle has lost momentum but the designers don't have an entirely new take ready to launch just yet.

And of course, you do have AFOLs complaining about repetition in City and Ninjago just as you have AFOLs complaining about repetition in Castle. But AFOLs aren't the core audience for any of those themes. And while it's tempting to blame themes' successes and failures strictly on the things that we like or dislike about them, that isn't always how things work out. If kids and AFOLs felt the same way about sets, then City would be collapsing under the weight of its numerous police stations, and Ninjago might never have taken off in the first place due to its utter weirdness, while numerous short-lived but beloved themes like Kingdoms, Pharaoh's Quest, and Monster Fighters might've lasted years longer.

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