Is anyone else fearing that Nexo Knights is meaning NO new castle them

[Itaria No Shintaku]

13 minutes ago, RetroInferno said:

Has ayone seen this? http://www.hothbricks.com/lego-nexo-knights-concept-inedit-original-quil-a-lair/

Who knew Lego would rip off a 1988 Hasbro license 

A bunch of knights with powers coming out of their shield and chest, medieval and space, a virtual wizard mentor.

I don't blame Lego but I had a good laugh reading through it. 

I honestly see little in common.

[Lyichir]

45 minutes ago, RetroInferno said:

Has ayone seen this? http://www.hothbricks.com/lego-nexo-knights-concept-inedit-original-quil-a-lair/

Who knew Lego would rip off a 1988 Hasbro license 

A bunch of knights with powers coming out of their shield and chest, medieval and space, a virtual wizard mentor.

I don't blame Lego but I had a good laugh reading through it. 

The similarities have been noted, but it's not really "ripping off". Several themes like Chima and Nexo Knights definitely DO take inspiration from '80s franchises—after all, those are the kinds of toys and cartoons many current Lego designers grew up with—but those designers develop the themes well beyond the rough concepts or inspiration provided by those earlier works.

Even more "traditional" themes or figures often take inspiration from pop culture like that. For instance, you can trace a line between a theme like fantasy Castle and other works like Lord of the Rings, the Prydain Chronicles, and even role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons. Space themes similarly draw from existing sci-fi works. Even City draws not just from the real world and its history, but also from more specific sorts of tropes and motifs made popular by media (especially media related to the ever-present theme of crime and law enforcement).

Bringing things back around to this topic, the media zeitgeist can play a big role in when themes go away or subsequently come back. For instance, the unpopularity of the Western theme among kids can be chalked up partly to the "family-friendly western" falling out of favor on television and being replaced with a smaller number of grittier, adult-themed westerns in movies. But conversely, most of the Pirates theme's post-2000 revivals probably owe a good deal of thanks to Disney's repopularization of pirate movies with the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. I haven't been paying close attention to many historical movies lately, especially those aimed wholly or partly at kids, but I'm definitely aware of some—for instance, the How to Train Your Dragon movies could point to a potential demand that could be capitalized on with a new take on the Vikings theme.

[Roebuck]

I am hoping for a caste theme with civilian based sets in it, but that seem unlikely with nexo knights around.. Unfortunately nexo knight sets are only "clash of the titans" and no damsel or farmer in distress

Other traditional sets like pirates only get a wave every 5-6 years and definitely not one when we have a POTC movie with a ghost ship 

Western is another good old theme which came out when I was in the middle of the dark age so I do not own them, but they seem very nice especially the indian sets, although a new release is not imminent I guess

We will have to be patient I think and I for one find comfort in the upcoming city wave with an adventure's vibe

[Legoman123]

2 hours ago, Roebuck said:

I am hoping for a caste theme with civilian based sets in it, but that seem unlikely with nexo knights around.. Unfortunately nexo knight sets are only "clash of the titans" and no damsel or farmer in distress

Other traditional sets like pirates only get a wave every 5-6 years and definitely not one when we have a POTC movie with a ghost ship 

Western is another good old theme which came out when I was in the middle of the dark age so I do not own them, but they seem very nice especially the indian sets, although a new release is not imminent I guess

We will have to be patient I think and I for one find comfort in the upcoming city wave with an adventure's vibe

I would of thought they'd have done a western theme after the Lego Ideas (cussoo at the time) western set reached 10,000 followers.

[Artanis I]

They did, it was called The Lone Ranger, and it bombed, possibly because the movie (which was reasonable) got such bad reviews. Discounts up to 50% off. I thought the sets seemed decent, so perhaps the market isn't there after all.

So I wouldn't expect the next Western theme release for some time.

[Roebuck]

To me the lone ranger do not count, but it probably do to Lego... The problem with making sets from movies is that they are limited to what is recognizable from the movie. If they make a unlicensed theme like western they are much more free and can make sets they think people will imagine the wild west looked like (not what a specific movie they did not see made it look like)..

If the movie is a flopp, the sets most likely will as well..

[MAB]

9 hours ago, Artanis I said:

They did, it was called The Lone Ranger, and it bombed, possibly because the movie (which was reasonable) got such bad reviews. Discounts up to 50% off. I thought the sets seemed decent, so perhaps the market isn't there after all.

So I wouldn't expect the next Western theme release for some time.

 

Did The Lone Ranger sets (not the movie) bomb? I think they sold reasonably well, especially the train, and I parted loads out on BL. Sure, they were available at 50% in some places, but that is true of many series. In the UK, The Hobbit third wave sets were 50% within 3 weeks of release. The Lonely Mountain was regularly £50, Battle of Five Armies £25 (58% off). I rarely part with any money for a general release set unless it is at least 33% off. Does that mean all series bomb? Or everything is just overpriced and people know they can wait for discounts.

[x105Black]

On 3/6/2017 at 11:55 AM, RetroInferno said:

Has ayone seen this? http://www.hothbricks.com/lego-nexo-knights-concept-inedit-original-quil-a-lair/

Who knew Lego would rip off a 1988 Hasbro license 

A bunch of knights with powers coming out of their shield and chest, medieval and space, a virtual wizard mentor.

I don't blame Lego but I had a good laugh reading through it. 

I've been saying that since it was first announced.  I'm frankly surprised it took this long for an article about it to surface.

[AmperZand]

On 05/03/2017 at 2:30 PM, Tragic Banjo said:

That right there's your problem. TLG is a global company and has been pursuing Asian markets more aggressively recently. Western bias does not make for a good strategy in that kind of business environment.

Although Asian markets may be growing faster than others, that's starting from a relatively small base. The largest markets are North America and Europe. They're considerably bigger than the others. It would be a strategic error to focus on growth to the detriment of established markets. LEGO already knows that. You can see it in the CMF line where there are references to western culture that have little meaning in most of Asia, and no examples in the line of the reverse. You can also see it in the choice of some of the licences LEGO has pursued. Lord of the Rings/the Hobbit, for example, isn't nearly as popular in Asia as it is in the west.

Given that there are few universal cultural references especially historical ones, LEGO would be better off having a line that speaks fairly strongly to major markets rather than one that is equally but weakly culturally resonant worldwide.    

On 05/03/2017 at 2:53 PM, Lyichir said:

Your theory seems to overlook the fact that up until Ninjago launched in 2011 ninja was not really a "perennial theme that had done well historically" but rather a two-year theme from the '90s that had not been revisited in over a decade. And in fact, Ninjago found its success largely through "mash-ups", with the ninja (who were themselves far from traditional ninja, utilizing high-tech vehicles) fighting skeletons, snakes, cyborgs, ghosts, and pirates, among several others. Considering Ninjago is one of the most successful new themes of the modern era the fact that its success seems to run totally counter to your theory seems to be a significant sticking point.

There's also the matter of other historically successful themes that have been far less successful in the modern era—just look at the 2013 Castle theme or the 2015 Pirates theme, both of which represented those successful classic themes at their most pure and traditional, yet still failed to enjoy great success themselves.

Ninjago is actually a good example of what I was saying. Sure it's a mash-up but from the start LEGO went to considerable effort (and no doubt expense) to build its cultural capital among kids through a popular game system (Spinjitsu) and cartoon. The problem with China was that the game play and the cartoon weren't that popular. A company trying to build its own cultural capital is playing a game of high risk. The reward may be worth it but only if the company gets it right. Generally, LEGO seems to get it wrong more often than it gets it right, so should probably stick to safer options.

The 2013 Castle theme suffered from its thematic similarity to the LotR line: there was overlap in the time when they were on store shelves. Certainly, there were slight (and probably intentional) differences in the age ranges appealed to (LotR to older kids, Castle to younger kids), but they both featured knights on horses, castles and fantasy monsters, so were tapping the same area of interest. I suspect that there were execs at LEGO at the time who were (rightly) concerned that Castle's sales would eat into the tail end of the LotR sales, and because LEGO had already paid a lot for the LotR licence, Castle was deliberately starved of marketing oxygen by LEGO.     

[Legoman123]

On 08/03/2017 at 10:16 AM, x105Black said:

I've been saying that since it was first announced.  I'm frankly surprised it took this long for an article about it to surface.

With any luck the theme will get stopped for 'licensing issues'   Then we can get our traditional Castle theme back.

[x105Black]

54 minutes ago, sigmund1410 said:

And maybye Lego is just teasing with us? They keep rejecting every castle-related project on Ideas, maybye because there's an official Castle line coming soon? As someone mentioned before, 2018 is Castle's anniversary and seriously, if Lego does not release anything decent, I'm going to retreat to my "dark ages basement" and literally buy NOTHING until Castle pops up.

If you look at some of the details of the Nexo Knights sets and marketing, you could think that way.  There are some things that could come across as a nod to the old fans, but in reality they seem almost condescending.

One of these would be the old introduction video for Lance.  This shows the 1978 Castle knights as somewhat dumb and inept.

There are also the 'banners' from the Fortrex:



These have the number "375-6045" that was the set number of the original 1978 yellow castle set.  For a lot of Castle fans, the Fortrex is a mockery of castles, so referencing that old castle like this can seem like they are teasing us.

But these are subjective positions.  I don't think LEGO really wants to alienate their Castle fans.  I think these are genuinely supposed to be 'shout-outs' to the fans of classic Castle.

And I wouldn't expect a real Castle theme in 2018.  Nexo Knights is supposed to continue for one more year after this one, so a real Castle theme shouldn't be expected until 2019.  Even then, there's no guarantee.  But there are a lot of us hoping very strongly.  It would be awesome, however, if they teased the 2019 Castle theme with a nice big D2C Castle set in 2018.  Maybe an update if the 1978 castle.  But now I'm just wishlisting.

Edited March 10, 2017 by x105Black

[MAB]

4 hours ago, sigmund1410 said:

And maybye Lego is just teasing with us? They keep rejecting every castle-related project on Ideas, maybye because there's an official Castle line coming soon? As someone mentioned before, 2018 is Castle's anniversary and seriously, if Lego does not release anything decent, I'm going to retreat to my "dark ages basement" and literally buy NOTHING until Castle pops up.

 

 

What has even made it to review to get rejected? The market street, which was way too big. What else got rejected?

[Aanchir]

19 hours ago, MAB said:

What has even made it to review to get rejected? The market street, which was way too big. What else got rejected?

There was the Merchant's House and a bunch of Lord of the Rings and Zelda projects, but I feel like in a lot of those cases the rejection probably had more to do with licensing complications or the projects themselves being too big and ambitious than with them being castle-related.

I feel like Castle and Pirates are tough themes to push through Ideas, especially since some of the most treasured parts of those themes tend to be the big stuff — castles, villages, pirate ships, and huge island forts. The small and mid-range stuff is appreciated, but mostly in its ability to complement the bigger sets. That's a lot different from, say, Space or City, where I feel like there are a lot more small and mid-range sets that become iconic on their own merits rather than just as accessories to their bigger builds. I'd love to see some more modestly-sized Castle proposals get more attention through LEGO Ideas. Particularly more niche stuff we don't see so often in Castle sets, like Forestmen. Trouble is, there either aren't enough people making smaller Castle projects, aren't enough people supporting/promoting them, or both.

Recently approved projects like the Old Fishing Store and Saturn V Rocket do indicate that as LEGO Ideas sets continue to be well received, LEGO Ideas is beginning to approve bigger projects for production. Even so there's an element of risk with those proposals. The bigger the project, the more it will need to have going for it to convince LEGO that they'll see a return on their investment.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Aanchir

[BrickJagger]

On March 6, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Artanis I said:

They did, it was called The Lone Ranger, and it bombed, possibly because the movie (which was reasonable) got such bad reviews. Discounts up to 50% off. I thought the sets seemed decent, so perhaps the market isn't there after all.

So I wouldn't expect the next Western theme release for some time.

I actually remember reading somewhere that Lego was developing a regular Western theme in 2012 when Disney came to them and asked if they could do Lone Ranger sets. Some of the original designs were barely altered, which explains why not all of the sets are faithful to the film.

 

On March 10, 2017 at 11:01 AM, sigmund1410 said:

And maybye Lego is just teasing with us? They keep rejecting every castle-related project on Ideas, maybye because there's an official Castle line coming soon? As someone mentioned before, 2018 is Castle's anniversary and seriously, if Lego does not release anything decent, I'm going to retreat to my "dark ages basement" and literally buy NOTHING until Castle pops up.

I would bank on a new line in 2019. Possibly an anniversary set such as a D2C next year, like @x105Black mentioned. 

3 hours ago, Aanchir said:

There was the Merchant's House and a bunch of Lord of the Rings and Zelda projects, but I feel like in a lot of those cases the rejection probably had more to do with licensing complications or the projects themselves being too big and ambitious than with them being castle-related.

I think these (here, here, here) have a good chance of being made. They're fairly small, and obviously they have a huge base of support. Keep in mind the first in this series achieved 10,000 supporters in a matter of days a few weeks ago.

[nine09nueve]

On 11/03/2017 at 4:07 PM, Aanchir said:

= I'd love to see some more modestly-sized Castle proposals get more attention through LEGO Ideas. Particularly more niche stuff we don't see so often in Castle sets, like Forestmen. Trouble is, there either aren't enough people making smaller Castle projects, aren't enough people supporting/promoting them, or both.

Does my stuff count as Niche castle?

[x105Black]

6 hours ago, nine09nueve said:

Does my stuff count as Niche castle?

I would say that all of your proposals fit neatly into Fantasy Castle.

[RetroInferno]

I may be wrong but don't Lego theme lasts 2 years in general, not 3?

[zoth33]

Nexo knights is slated for 3 years and apparently is doing well.  I don't think lego is trolling us with the nods to old school castle sets I think you guys are reading way to much into things. 

[x105Black]

3 hours ago, zoth33 said:

Nexo knights is slated for 3 years and apparently is doing well.  I don't think lego is trolling us with the nods to old school castle sets I think you guys are reading way to much into things. 

My understanding is that it is doing OK.  And you're probably right about the trolling.  Probably reading too much into it.

[SirBlake]

13 hours ago, zoth33 said:

Nexo knights is slated for 3 years and apparently is doing well.  I don't think lego is trolling us with the nods to old school castle sets I think you guys are reading way to much into things. 

I agree that there's no way it's intentional trolling. I also still feel slighted that these perfectly good references are buried in in a theme that's very existence feels like an insult.

Not bashing NK out of sport here, just how I feel.

[Artanis I]

When the NK designer designs a set, he likes to throw little references & "easter eggs" to old sets or sub-themes. It is intentional, but not intentional trolling, he is meaning it in an affectionate way. Sadly, in the case of NK, most Castle fans are only disappointed by it. It's like a sudden memory of a lost loved one (without closure). "You'll never see those knights or castles again..."

[legobear]

I'm hoping for Nexo Knights to end as soon as it can but I have a feeling it won't.  I fear it will become Ninjago.  I prefer Ninjago because it fills a niche that we're always missing out on - Ninjas and samurais etc.  However, unlike Ninjago........Nexo knight destroys TWO EVERGREEN themes - space and castle.  Both of these themes are a pivotal reason why AFOLs exist in droves.  With Nexo knight (knight in space), why would Lego make a third space theme alongside star wars?  Why would they continue with another castle theme that contradicts Nexo knights?  

And this is the issue.  They will breed new fans of space knights?  But they will disappoint a very important demographic - AFOLs.  It's imperative that in order to reach and sustain popularity with a large fan following that they rotate themes in and out and not alienate fans of historical western, castle, and space themes.  I just hope it comes sooner than later so I can say good riddens to the space knights.  

[Aanchir]

5 hours ago, legobear said:

I'm hoping for Nexo Knights to end as soon as it can but I have a feeling it won't.  I fear it will become Ninjago.  I prefer Ninjago because it fills a niche that we're always missing out on - Ninjas and samurais etc.  However, unlike Ninjago........Nexo knight destroys TWO EVERGREEN themes - space and castle.  Both of these themes are a pivotal reason why AFOLs exist in droves.  With Nexo knight (knight in space), why would Lego make a third space theme alongside star wars?  Why would they continue with another castle theme that contradicts Nexo knights?  

And this is the issue.  They will breed new fans of space knights?  But they will disappoint a very important demographic - AFOLs.  It's imperative that in order to reach and sustain popularity with a large fan following that they rotate themes in and out and not alienate fans of historical western, castle, and space themes.  I just hope it comes sooner than later so I can say good riddens to the space knights.  

I still see no particular likelihood of Nexo Knights becoming like Ninjago. Ninjago's sales performance was extraordinary even in its first year, and despite that it was still planned at that point to end after two and a half years. The 2011 Annual Report said that Ninjago "exceeded expectations and was the biggest product launch in company history". Nexo Knights seems to have had a good start, but not of nearly the same magnitude. All LEGO had to say about it in their 2016 Annual Report was that it "was also a contributor to growth". That's even less praise than they had for Legends of Chima in the 2013 report ("LEGO Friends that was launched in 2012 and LEGO Chima that was launched at the beginning of 2013 added the most to sales growth in 2013").

I wouldn't overstate AFOLs' importance to the LEGO Group, but frankly kids are an even more pressing reason for LEGO to rotate their themes every few years. LEGO likes to put out a new "Big Bang" every few years so they can make a strong impression on a new generation of kids. But they can't keep doing that if they also keep more and more massive themes from previous years chugging along at full steam. They can't grow their production capacity or marketing budget but so quickly. And while a "top seller" might be fairly secure from being rotated out, a mere "contributor to growth" doesn't necessarily have that same assurance.

The reality is that as successful as Ninjago has been since its launch, that kind of success is not in any way the new normal, and three years is still a pretty generous expectation for a new theme's lifespan. And a futuristic twist is no silver bullet — just look at Chima or Ultra Agents.

[kabel]

I think I may repeat myself here, but what I don't get is why Lego is giving anything historical the boot, whereas Playmobil does their castle and pirate stuff over and over again and seems to be doing alright. In fact, their current Egyptians/Romans topic is so well designed that my kids forgot all about Lego over it. So why would the folks at Lego assume, that historical themes don't sell when Playmobil proves that there still is a huge demand for themes like that?

[ElectroDiva]

22 minutes ago, kabel said:

I think I may repeat myself here, but what I don't get is why Lego is giving anything historical the boot, whereas Playmobil does their castle and pirate stuff over and over again and seems to be doing alright. In fact, their current Egyptians/Romans topic is so well designed that my kids forgot all about Lego over it. So why would the folks at Lego assume, that historical themes don't sell when Playmobil proves that there still is a huge demand for themes like that?

 

I just googled the current Playmobil historic sets and WOW - they're fantastic. Not patronising or dumbed down - just really well thought through with a genuine historic vibe.

 

Why can't TLG do something like that? Kids would lap it up (the intelligent ones anyway) and it would be a historic MOC'ers dream