Is anyone else fearing that Nexo Knights is meaning NO new castle them

[Blondie-Wan]

Except there weren't any $11 LotR sets. There were only 2 sets around that price range, Gandalf Arrives and The Wizard Battle for 15€. Even smaller and less detailed sets like The Council of Elrond or Attack on Weathertop are sold for 40€ and 60€ respectively. LotR sets are also more expensive in Europe compared to USA. Even if you calculate USD:EUR as 1:1 (which isn't), most LotR sets, especially army builders like Uruk-hai Army, The Orc Forge or Battle at the Black Gate, are +10€ more expensive in Lego Stores in Europe. On the other hand, 2013-2014 Castle theme had the same prices for every set for USA and Europe. And I wasn't even joking in my earlier post. I'm not about to make a detailed comparison of piece count and prices of all sets in both themes, but going with one example; Pirate Ship Ambush, a 756 piece set, has the same price as King's Castle, which is the biggest set of its wave with 996 pieces. So, yeah, they are more expensive than Castle sets.

Oops, you're right - none of the sets retailed for $11. And yes, the prices for the Middle-Earth sets were disproportionately higher in Europe, so higher for you, but not so much for me.

Pirate Ship Ambush may have a lower piece count than King's Castle, but aren't the sets comparable in overall size? I believe the former does have some larger and/or more specialized parts than the latter, which is bound to affect things. Piece count is an important metric, but not all parts are created equal - a $10, 10-piece set is a terrible deal if the parts are all 1x1 round plates, but pretty darn fantastic if they're all Mindstorms controller bricks.

The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings was / were (an) expensive theme, to be sure, but I do think it had more to do with the size, complexity (including the need for new and exclusive molds), and number of sets than the fact they were licensed - at least in the U.S., anyway. But yes, YMMV for Europe and elsewhere.

[Artanis I]

I did a comparison across minifig themes last year or the year before to show the piece count difference between licenced and non-licenced sets of the same S@H price. The disparity is definitely there, but is significantly reduced in North America. I didn't do a scientific report or calculate a percentage btw, just made observations, so I don't remember how big the difference was, but it is considerable.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Artanis I

[The Maestro]

Although I consider Nexo Knights a sci-fi theme TLG make it clear it is part of the castle line and as most of us have agreed untill Nexo Knights have died out no new castle lines will be realesed. Another option is that the world of nexo knights took a sci-fi turn kinda like ninjago did, perhaps turning it from castle to sci-fi. This may or may not create room for another fantasy/castle series. But then theres also the elves...

[Sorrelon]

The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings was / were (an) expensive theme, to be sure, but I do think it had more to do with the size, complexity (including the need for new and exclusive molds), and number of sets than the fact they were licensed - at least in the U.S., anyway. But yes, YMMV for Europe and elsewhere.

Actually, I've forgotten about this. There were lots of new weapons, armors and other accessories both in LotR and Hobbit sets. That kinda makes sense for higher prices.

...ah, who am I kidding. I just wish Helm's Deep and Uruk-hai Army sets were cheaper so I could've bought several boxes of each of them

Edited July 26, 2016 by Sorrelon

[SirBlake]

That's where I cleaned up. I got several UHA sets because they were really a pretty good deal and a nice army builder. I got 3 Helms Deep sets and sold off the unique minifigs of the last two sets to offset the price and ended up with a ton of fresh grey bricks.

I was fortunate to come out of my dark ages just in time, but in hindsight, Middle Earth sets likely would have pulled me back anyway. Turns out that the greatness of Kingdoms was enough to do that though.

[Aanchir]

I honestly think we HAVE seen some of the design principles from The Lord of the Rings start to filter into other themes, even themes for much younger audiences, in small ways. When last year's Pirates range was revealed one thing I was struck by that most people seemed pretty much indifferent to was the rocky foundations in 70411 and 70410, or the brick-built walls of 70410 and 70412.

These things were not extraordinary building techniques compared to what MOCists were doing. But those rocky shores were far more detailed than the blocky beach of Rocky Reef (a Pirates set from MY childhood) or the giant landscaping brick of Loot Island. The buildings were far less simplistic in their construction than the buildings of Sabre Island and the (admittedly much bigger) Soldier's Fort. These techniques were unprecedented for Pirates sets. But not for The Lord of the Rings sets, and that's in fact what they reminded me of when I first saw them: the uneven edges of sets like The Orc Forge and the uneven brick-built wall construction of sets like Uruk-Hai Army. I found it odd that these details didn't make more of an impression on more dedicated Pirates fans — but that's perhaps because they were used to MOCs that had implemented those sorts of techniques years before LEGO sets started taking advantage of them.

I think the next time Castle comes around it'll be able to take advantage of more of those same sorts of techniques. We already saw a bit of that in Dragon Mountain, which despite the small size of the black tower itself, still had a delightful "ruggedness" to it, suggesting it was built atop the ruins of a much older castle. I always think it's awesome when the details of a set sort of tell a story of their own, beyond just how kids are expected to play with it. I hope the next Castle theme is able to do that.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Aanchir

[SirBlake]

Very insightful. I hadn't thought about it that way but I think you're right.

[legobear]

Man I miss LOTR. I wish they would make a movie about the "new" book out already so we can get some more sets :). This won't happen until i'm old and rickety in a chair probably.

Edited July 28, 2016 by legobear

[BrickCurve]

I honestly think we HAVE seen some of the design principles from The Lord of the Rings start to filter into other themes, even themes for much younger audiences, in small ways. When last year's Pirates range was revealed one thing I was struck by that most people seemed pretty much indifferent to was the rocky foundations in 70411 and 70410, or the brick-built walls of 70410 and 70412.

I absolutely agree. The fact that there wasn't a large reaction to it was simply because those techniques had become stock standard on MOCs. They did have some handy parts for those techniques in them as well.

[josykay]

I watched recently some Ninjago reviews, and then I saw that 70593 "The Green NRG Dragon" and I thought... erm guys? This set contains a dragon, some little stone tower, a quite nice catapult (Which is quite weird, since the pirates use flintlocks and cannons as range weapons)... and several guys with a sword/ staff. Replace the minifigures and you have essentially an awesome castle set. So sad, that Ninjago has more "Castle" in it, than Lego's current castle serie. *cry*

Edited July 29, 2016 by josykay

[MAB]

The Germans better get back to collecting Castle sets!

If German kids are anything like UK kids then Castle sales will be high. Meaning sales for the current Castle sets, as in Nexo Knights. I dread to think how many 6-9 year old boys' parties I have been to with my kids, and how many of the birthday boys have been getting small sets of NK from their friends and the Fortrex from their parents. That one in particular seems to be outselling the Jestro's Lair and other mid-large sets. I guess Jestro's Lair will be saved for Christmas.

For me, the heroes sets are too blue, but the villains are actually quite decent castle sets (mainly Jestro's Lair) for MOCs. Quite black, but I use a lot of black. It could have been much worse, given Jestro's colours are red and purple, they could have made his lair much more purple than black. Fortunately they didn't.

I'm a little surprised that they have both NK and Ninjago out at the same time. Obviously different inspirations behind the themes but both quite action focussed sets aimed at mainly boys of a certain age.

[Sorrelon]

I watched recently some Ninjago reviews, and then I saw that 70593 "The Green NRG Dragon" and I thought... erm guys? This set contains a dragon, some little stone tower, a quite nice catapult (Which is quite weird, since the pirates use flintlocks and cannons as range weapons)... and several guys with a sword/ staff. Replace the minifigures and you have essentially an awesome castle set. So sad, that Ninjago has more "Castle" in it, than Lego's current castle serie. *cry*

They are relasing really nice Ninjago sets recently. This last Sky Pirates subtheme of Ninjago has lots of useful parts for both Castle and Pirates builds. Also, Temple of Airjitzu is golden for anyone who builds historical Japanese buildings.

If German kids are anything like UK kids then Castle sales will be high. Meaning sales for the current Castle sets, as in Nexo Knights. I dread to think how many 6-9 year old boys' parties I have been to with my kids, and how many of the birthday boys have been getting small sets of NK from their friends and the Fortrex from their parents. That one in particular seems to be outselling the Jestro's Lair and other mid-large sets. I guess Jestro's Lair will be saved for Christmas.

For me, the heroes sets are too blue, but the villains are actually quite decent castle sets (mainly Jestro's Lair) for MOCs. Quite black, but I use a lot of black. It could have been much worse, given Jestro's colours are red and purple, they could have made his lair much more purple than black. Fortunately they didn't.

I'm a little surprised that they have both NK and Ninjago out at the same time. Obviously different inspirations behind the themes but both quite action focussed sets aimed at mainly boys of a certain age.

Well, I remember that they've declared Ninjago an evergreen theme like City, Technic, Castle etc., so that's probably why they are both out at the same time.

[x105Black]

Well, I remember that they've declared Ninjago an evergreen theme like City, Technic, Castle etc., so that's probably why they are both out at the same time.

Castle was once an evergreen theme, but as you can see, things change. What is evergreen now can be cancelled at any moment. Or worse, replaced like a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[thetang22]

Yeah, "evergreen" has lost a bit of it's meaning. Evergreen these days means "it's evergreen until we decide we don't want it to be evergreen anymore".

[ElectroDiva]

Does anyone know how well Nexo Knights is selling? I really don't like its futuristic/castle mash-up and from my perspective the sooner it's done the better.

[x105Black]

Does anyone know how well Nexo Knights is selling? I really don't like its futuristic/castle mash-up and from my perspective the sooner it's done the better.

It's impossible to tell, really. All we have to go by is anecdotal, how the shelves look in stores nearby. As far as I know, no official word has been released on the subject.

It is, however, planned to be a 3 year theme at the least.

Edited August 7, 2016 by x105Black

[ElectroDiva]

They have dropped other themes before the full planned run though right? Or is that wishful thinking?

Anecdotally, my nephews and nieces (all <10 years old) don't like Nexo Knights either. The boys are mad for Ninjago and Star Wars, and the girls go for mostly Disney and Friends. Both also like Minecraft and some City stuff

They have seen my LOTR and Kingdoms sets and minifigures and given the opportunity, I think they would go for a traditional castle/fantasy theme

[Lyichir]

It's not any more "historic" than Nexo Knights (or Knights Kingdom II or Fantasy Castle, for that matter), but if you ask me Lego does already have a perfectly good Castle theme running alongside Nexo Knights—that being Elves. Just built Ragana's Magic Shadow Castle yesterday and was amazed at how great it is—not only does it have a great structure and overall aesthetic, but it packs in plenty of livable detail and interesting functions, as well. The day before that I built the Queen Dragon's Rescue set and was similarly impressed. The Elves theme is a fantastic source for medieval-fantasy architecture and in general I'd consider it one of the best Castle themes in years.

Of course, there's also still the possibility of another Castle theme beyond those, particularly if a good enough license comes along. Personally I'm still holding out hope that the numerous Ideas projects that have made it to review might have been enough to convince Lego and Nintendo to pursue a Legend of Zelda theme next year, to tie in with the upcoming game for Wii U and NX.

[SirBlake]

It's not any more "historic" than Nexo Knights (or Knights Kingdom II or Fantasy Castle, for that matter), but if you ask me Lego does already have a perfectly good Castle theme running alongside Nexo Knights—that being Elves. Just built Ragana's Magic Shadow Castle yesterday and was amazed at how great it is—not only does it have a great structure and overall aesthetic, but it packs in plenty of livable detail and interesting functions, as well. The day before that I built the Queen Dragon's Rescue set and was similarly impressed. The Elves theme is a fantastic source for medieval-fantasy architecture and in general I'd consider it one of the best Castle themes in years.

Of course, there's also still the possibility of another Castle theme beyond those, particularly if a good enough license comes along. Personally I'm still holding out hope that the numerous Ideas projects that have made it to review might have been enough to convince Lego and Nintendo to pursue a Legend of Zelda theme next year, to tie in with the upcoming game for Wii U and NX.

Funny, I was looking at Elves sets last night at Target with that in mind. There are some decent builds and useful parts for sure. There are a couple of problems though, centered around this: minidolls don't cut it for most of us.

There are no factions, armor, weapons or most importantly, heraldry. Aside from a lot of grey bricks and fun builds, that's one of the biggest reasons for us to buy castle sets. As an extension of that issue, with no usable minifigs, the price point to get some cool windows and a neat railing piece is just too high. That's why I left Target last night with exactly zero Elves sets.

[LegoRomania]

I would like Vikings theme return.

[Aanchir]

Yeah, "evergreen" has lost a bit of it's meaning. Evergreen these days means "it's evergreen until we decide we don't want it to be evergreen anymore".

I don't know if the term "evergreen" has ever meant that there would never be any sorts of hiatus. The announcement of Ninjago becoming evergreen in one of the LEGO employee magazines mentioned "cycles of renewal", and I think that's a pretty big factor in what is considered evergreen. Note that since 2000, LEGO has been pretty consistent about putting out a new take on LEGO Castle every three or four years. Not all of them end up lasting the full three years until the next incarnation comes out, and not all of them end up offering what AFOLs want from a Castle theme, but they still come out pretty much like clockwork.

I think there's a strategic aspect to having these kinds of renewal cycles. Each incarnation of LEGO Castle still has to succeed on its own merits, and if it can't maintain its momentum for the full three years LEGO has to go back to the drawing board. They can't just rush out a new version of LEGO Castle each time the previous version ends if they haven't had enough time to develop a replacement and figure out how to set it apart from the previous incarnation. City, of course, doesn't deal with these kinds of hiatuses, but that's because City sells like hotcakes pretty much without fail, so they don't have to worry about the current incarnation running its course and needing to be put on the back burner while they look into ways to reinvent it.

And yeah, I'll vouch for this year's LEGO Elves range having more of what I've always wanted in LEGO medieval fantasy than actual Castle sets have ever had. Brilliant and highly posable dragon designs? Check! Castles that actually feel livable? Check! An exciting and magical fantasy world? Check! It's true that there's pretty much no armor, but there have been some weapons like a crossbow in Queen Dragon's Rescue, a sword and shield in The Secret Market Place, and a shield and magic staff in Ragana's Magic Shadow Castle. As for heraldry, Elves has some fantastic iconography like printed element tiles in two sizes, and some pretty amazing flags for both good and evil factions, plus various stickers that bear many of those same symbols.

Mind you, it's entirely your choice whether figures you dislike are reason enough to skip several-hundred-piece sets. It's the same choice girls who dislike the minifigure have been forced to grapple with for decades. Settle for a figure that is (in their eyes) mediocre and off-putting? Or skip sets entirely in favor of other, more appealing hobbies? There's no point trying to force yourself to like something you don't. That said, I think there would be plenty for adult Castle fans to like in many Elves sets like the Shadow Castle, Queen Dragon's Rescue, and the Starlight Inn even if they didn't come with any figures at all.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aanchir

[x105Black]

Funny, I was looking at Elves sets last night at Target with that in mind. There are some decent builds and useful parts for sure. There are a couple of problems though, centered around this: minidolls don't cut it for most of us.

There are no factions, armor, weapons or most importantly, heraldry. Aside from a lot of grey bricks and fun builds, that's one of the biggest reasons for us to buy castle sets. As an extension of that issue, with no usable minifigs, the price point to get some cool windows and a neat railing piece is just too high. That's why I left Target last night with exactly zero Elves sets.

Elves is definitely the closest thing to Castle that is currently available, just as Nexo Knights is the closest thing to Space.

But I agree that factions, armor, weapons, heraldry, and minifigures (not minidolls) are really important for Castle fans. We haven't had a Castle theme since 2013, and the CMF series provide very little over the years (next year will be particularly bad with only 1 normal series). I've considered buying Elves sets as well, but I can't get past the minidolls. A big negative. I wouldn't have a problem if they also came with minifigures, but the lack of those acts as another negative.

It's really disheartening knowing that the 2 themes that are closest to Castle, that appeal nicely to certain groups, have no real content to offer to Castle fans aside from a few interesting new pieces.

[Artanis I]

Evergreen is the wrong word these days. Either that, or once-evergreen themes are now not.

No evergreen tree goes years without leaves.

If TLG still refers to Castle/Space/Pirates as "evergreen" then they mean "always on our radar", not "always new sets on the shelf". The only true evergreen minifig themes these days are City, SW, Super Heroes (licence depending) & Ninjago.

[thetang22]

I don't know if the term "evergreen" has ever meant that there would never be any sorts of hiatus.

I'm pretty sure the classic evergreen themes were "evergreen" before the term was even used, and it basically meant that no matter what else we (Lego) dabble in, these few themes are the foundation of our themes...and you can always expect them to be represented. The term may be more "official" today than it was back in the 80's and 90's...but it seems like the idea meant more back then than it does today.

[Blakstone]

I don't like the Nexo Knights although it does not bother me if anyone else does. I have three criteria when I look at any LEGO set: the minifigures, the build, and the parts. Nexo Knights strikes out on all three. I bought that Lavaria Ultimate pack twice (once one clearance) for the flick-fire crossbow and since the minifig print was okay.

I still don't like 2013 Castle as the minifig prints look too childish for my tastes. The builds were okay and the part selection and colors weren't bad.

As the level of detail on minifigs increase in both the licensed lines (LotR, PotC, etc) as well as in the CMF lines, it makes the older minifigures less appealing. Sure I got the Classic Knight this year and I love him for the nostalgia factor. But both him and any old school Forestman will never find themselves in a MOC.

Kingdoms was the last great Castle line with detailed and realistic enough minifigures for my taste. I will keep consuming the CMF and hope to get tons of the new Disney Castle shields on Bricks and Pieces as I like that style of heraldry even better than the CMF ones.

While we do not know how well Nexo Knights are selling, I think it is safe to say they are not doing as well as Elves. Here is the only true glimce we get to see from the LEGO 2015 Annual Report to Shareholders:

Among the top selling lines in 2015 were core themes like LEGO® City, LEGO® Star Wars™, LEGO NINJAGO, LEGO Friends and LEGO® DUPLO®. Furthermore, the new fantasy theme LEGO Elves is off to a good start as is LEGO DIMENSIONS, a new play experience that merges physical LEGO brick building with interactive console gameplay. Like with LEGO video games, LEGO DIMENSIONS is developed by TT Games and published by Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment.