How to tell Light Grey from Light Bluish Grey?

[LRDark]

1 hour ago, minimat said:

I got a brand new 10221. It contains both old grey and light blue gray pieces.

I haven't kept up with the Star Wars forums here, so maybe there is more information out there about it, but I find this incredibly difficult to believe. Could you let us know what pieces you found to be Old Grey?

[minimat]

8 hours ago, LRDark said:

I haven't kept up with the Star Wars forums here, so maybe there is more information out there about it, but I find this incredibly difficult to believe. Could you let us know what pieces you found to be Old Grey?

Lots of them, from bottom plates to side wings (10% on one side and 70% or so on the other). Pics on reddit.

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by minimat
Pics

[ReplicaOfLife]

1 hour ago, minimat said:

Lots of them, from bottom plates to side wings (10% on one side and 70% or so on the other). Pics on reddit.

That is very likely a case of age-related yellowing (pieces can yellow even when misb) and/or the usual color variations we get in Lego sets nowadays. I have some light gray pieces that match neither old gray nor light blueish gray. One of the side effects of the color change was and is that Lego sometimes has propblems keeping the colors consistent nowadays.

 

Why I am so sure that that's also the case here? Simple:

The 6x3 wedge plates were NEVER even made in light gray - they first came out in 2006, 2 years after the color change. (See here & here).

And the 8x8 plate also was never released in light gray.

Edited December 27, 2018 by RogerSmith
spelling. gah.

[minimat]

Thanks for your answer. It's somewhat comforting but I wonder what to do next. Maybe forgetting about this is the best move.

[Space Police XVIII]

I've never seen light bley discolored like that.  Starting to wonder if it's not actually a lepin set.

[minimat]

8 minutes ago, Space Police XVIII said:

I've never seen light bley discolored like that.  Starting to wonder if it's not actually a lepin set.

I’ve never opened a Lepin set but the box was perfectly legit, as were the three inner boxes and the box containing the instructions (perfectly printed as well). Also I bought it from a collector who I’ve been buying from for a few years.

No other types of pieces (apart from the ones you see on the pics) are yellowed. Any way to make sure?

[62Bricks]

3 hours ago, RogerSmith said:

That is very likely a case of age-related yellowing (pieces can yellow even when misb) and/or the usual color variations we get in Lego sets nowadays. I have some light gray pieces that match neither old gray nor light blueish gray. One of the side effects of the color change was and is that Lego sometimes has propblems keeping the colors consistent nowadays.

 

Why I am so sure that that's also the case here? Simple:

The 6x3 wedge plates were NEVER even made in light gray - they first came out in 2006, 2 years after the color change. (See here & here).

And the 8x8 plate also was never released in light gray.

Color changes never happen all at once - LEGO uses up all old stock even after new colors and variations are introduced, so to find an old color in a set two years after a new one is introduced is not impossible.

Bricklink is a good guide, but it is not always accurate on when parts or colors were used. This is because the catalog is based on set inventories. There are many examples of parts that were in use before the date given in Bricklink, and in colors that are not "known." You cannot say a part was NEVER produced in a certain year or color based on the Bricklink catalog. I have a small collection of parts just like this.

In the case of this set, the mixed gray colors has been documented in other new sets. There is a note about it at Bricklink: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=10030-1&name=Imperial Star Destroyer - UCS&category=[Star Wars][Ultimate Collector Series][Star Wars Episode 4/5/6]#T=S&O={"iconly":0}

 

[ReplicaOfLife]

1 hour ago, 62Bricks said:

Color changes never happen all at once - LEGO uses up all old stock even after new colors and variations are introduced, so to find an old color in a set two years after a new one is introduced is not impossible.

Bricklink is a good guide, but it is not always accurate on when parts or colors were used. This is because the catalog is based on set inventories. There are many examples of parts that were in use before the date given in Bricklink, and in colors that are not "known." You cannot say a part was NEVER produced in a certain year or color based on the Bricklink catalog. I have a small collection of parts just like this.

In the case of this set, the mixed gray colors has been documented in other new sets. There is a note about it at Bricklink: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=10030-1&name=Imperial Star Destroyer - UCS&category=[Star Wars][Ultimate Collector Series][Star Wars Episode 4/5/6]#T=S&O={"iconly":0}

 

Of course there are pieces in existence that were never in a production set. However, those either are rare prototypes/test runs, or they hail from one of the Legoland building shops. If there had been mixed stock during the production of a set, those pieces would be rather common.

And, yes, obviously you were likely to find pieces of both colors in sets produced during the transition period, like the one you linked to, which was in production when the change occured.
Stuff like that also happens with different moulds of the same piece - e.g. my Fire Brigade has jumpers in the same color both with and without groove.

But: The set in question here was released in 2011, seven years after the change happened, and some of the pieces it uses didn't even exist before the color change. So, for example, even if we assume that they made a preliminary production run of that wedge plate in the old light gray more than two years before it was first introduced in a set, I still would say it's extremely unlikely that some of that stock remained 7 years later and found it's way into sets in 2011 - together with a high number of other pieces in old gray. There's just no plausible scenario in which it make sense for that to happen. That wedge was in a number of sets between 2006 and 2010, so surely any stock produced in the mid 00s would've been long gone by 2011.

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by RogerSmith

[62Bricks]

Just now, RogerSmith said:

Of course there are pieces in existence that were never in a production set. However, those either are rare prototypes/test runs, or they hail from one of the Legoland building shops. If there had been mixed stock during the production of a set, those pieces would be rather common.

And, yes, obviously you were likely to find pieces of both colors in sets produced during the transition period, like the one you linked to, which was in production when the change occured.
Stuff like that also happens with different moulds of the same piece - e.g. my Fire Brigade has jumpers in the same color both with and without groove.

But: The set in question here was released in 2011, seven years after the change happened, and some of the pieces it uses didn't even exist before the color change. So, for example, even if we assume that they made a preliminary production run of that wedge plate in the old light gray more than two years before it was first introduced in a set, I still would say it's extremely unlikely that some of that stock remained 7 years later and found it's way into sets in 2011 - together with a high number of other pieces in old gray. There's just no plausible scenario in which it make sense for that to happen. That wedge was in a bumber of sets between 2006 and 2010, so surely any stock produced in the mid 00s would've been long gone by 2011.

 

I'm not only talking about prototypes or Legoland pieces. Bricklink defines a "known" color as one that has been included in a Bricklink inventory. Likewise, the years of production are based on the inventories. There are many instances of regular production pieces that are not "known" colors in the catalog simply because they have not been inventoried. The inventories are also frequently wrong - wrong variations are listed, wrong colors (especially with the grays), making the years of production incorrect.

For another point of reference, here is the Peeron inventory from an opened set, from Feb, 2012: http://peeron.com/inv/sets/10221-1

It lists the 3x6 wedge plates in Old Gray.

I think you have to do much more twisting and rationalizing to come with an explanation that this is not an original part in old light gray, especially when we know that a) Bricklink is sometimes wrong about dates and colors b) LEGO has mixed old and new colors in other sets and c) other people have reported this exact same thing in this set.

 

[TeriXeri]

I remember getting 2 older style clips in my 2016 Fortrex set. 

 

So instead of the 4x 4085d , I got 2x 4085b and 2x 4085d.

 

[ReplicaOfLife]

18 hours ago, 62Bricks said:

I'm not only talking about prototypes or Legoland pieces. Bricklink defines a "known" color as one that has been included in a Bricklink inventory. Likewise, the years of production are based on the inventories. There are many instances of regular production pieces that are not "known" colors in the catalog simply because they have not been inventoried. The inventories are also frequently wrong - wrong variations are listed, wrong colors (especially with the grays), making the years of production incorrect.

For another point of reference, here is the Peeron inventory from an opened set, from Feb, 2012: http://peeron.com/inv/sets/10221-1

It lists the 3x6 wedge plates in Old Gray.

I think you have to do much more twisting and rationalizing to come with an explanation that this is not an original part in old light gray, especially when we know that a) Bricklink is sometimes wrong about dates and colors b) LEGO has mixed old and new colors in other sets and c) other people have reported this exact same thing in this set.

 

In my experience, peeron inventories are a lot more unreliable than bricklink's (peeron as a whole also hasn't been updated since 2012...). When I got back into Lego, I used peeron to piece together some of my old sets, and more often than not I was missing pieces despite having the exact number listed on peeron when building them. Only had that happen once with bricklink so far.

In this case, peeron lists every gray piece in 10221 as OldGray / OldDkGray, which, again, is implausible and points to an error during entry. If Lego had released a set using the old grays in 2011, this would be widely known. Just imagine the buzz that would have created in the AFOL community.

 Brickset also has that wedge plate down for first being released in 2006.

 

Btw: I already posted this in the 'identifying parts' thread a long while back, but since it fits here as well:

Take a look at the clip in the middle of this picture:

What color is that? It's equally far off old gray and light blueish gray. The pieces in this pic are (from left to right) dark blueish gray, dark gray, ??? gray, light gray, light blueish gray.

I'm not sure where that particular piece came from. But this seems to happen from time to time - some of the light blueish gray clips in my Palace Cinema show similar color variations.

 

[dr_spock]

I think LEGO add colorants to each batch now instead buying plastic pellets already coloured.  Kind of like when you buy paint at the paint store and they mix the colour for you on the spot.  If they don't add the colour pigments exactly when you go back for more paint, you'll get colour variations between batches.

 

[62Bricks]

9 hours ago, RogerSmith said:

Btw: I already posted this in the 'identifying parts' thread a long while back, but since it fits here as well:

Take a look at the clip in the middle of this picture:

What color is that? It's equally far off old gray and light blueish gray. The pieces in this pic are (from left to right) dark blueish gray, dark gray, ??? gray, light gray, light blueish gray.

I'm not sure where that particular piece came from. But this seems to happen from time to time - some of the light blueish gray clips in my Palace Cinema show similar color variations.

 

The middle shade of gray is particular to this part and is fairly common. These clips were once made from a different type of plastic that was more flexible than ABS.

[Bornin1980something]

Why exactly did TLG change all the grays?

[Peppermint_M]

The old grey dyes had lead in. At the time the dye was used, the lead levels that were in the finished plastic were deemed "safe" by the powers that be. Regulations have tightened up since then (especially for children's toys) and public attitude is more concerned about things like lead levels near children, so LEGO changed the dyes so there was no lead in them.

My Aunt is mad about this sort of thing, so will always ask me if my little cousin is safe playing with my Uncle's old LEGO (It is, you would have to lodge an old grey brick inside yourself for decades for the lead to be harmful). 

[MAB]

On 12/27/2018 at 3:22 PM, RogerSmith said:

Of course there are pieces in existence that were never in a production set. However, those either are rare prototypes/test runs, or they hail from one of the Legoland building shops.

 

1

Or (in the case of minifigure parts) they have been in BAM sections of the LEGO store. I have found a few parts in the past that were unprinted versions of parts that had only been available as printed parts in retail sets.

 

[62Bricks]

On 1/10/2019 at 3:56 AM, Peppermint_M said:

The old grey dyes had lead in. At the time the dye was used, the lead levels that were in the finished plastic were deemed "safe" by the powers that be. Regulations have tightened up since then (especially for children's toys) and public attitude is more concerned about things like lead levels near children, so LEGO changed the dyes so there was no lead in them.

My Aunt is mad about this sort of thing, so will always ask me if my little cousin is safe playing with my Uncle's old LEGO (It is, you would have to lodge an old grey brick inside yourself for decades for the lead to be harmful). 

I had not heard of lead being present in LEGO pieces. They did use cadmium in early red parts, and bromine was added to all parts for a while as a fire retardant. It is the brownish bromine leeching to the surface of old bricks that causes yellowing.

[coinoperator]

On 12/27/2018 at 4:22 PM, RogerSmith said:

Color changes never happen all at once - LEGO uses up all old stock even after new colors and variations are introduced, so to find an old color in a set two years after a new one is introduced is not impossible.

Lego nowadays has molding plants in eastern Europe lands,
some minor color differences are probably to blame to this separate production, it's near to impossible to get the colors 100% between the plants.

[Northcott]

Cool