Bionicle 2016 Sets Discussion

[Ikaatril]

"I'm not going to buy any bionicle sets."

"Why is BIONICLE failing?"

The past few pages in a nutshell.

If BIONICLE is failing, then, remember when I said it showed in the designs of the sets? Well, the Beasts are a lot of evidence for that. You don't design something as atrocious as Quake Beast for a successful theme.

I can't help but notice something.

In 2010, Hero Factory was introduced. It basically built off what late Bionicle had introduced, but with its own little twists here and there. In 2011, it changed things up quite a bit by introducing a different style of building. The sets that first used said style weren't the best, but as time went on things improved.

Meanwhile in 2015, Bionicle was reintroduced. It basically built off what late Hero Factory had introduced, but with its own little twists here and there. In 2016, it changed things up quite a bit by introducing a different style of building. The sets that first used said style weren't the best.

Really? When I lurked in the past, most people really disliked Brain Attack for being a huge step down from Breakout, and the machines were controversial too.

-I can't defend Umarak the Destroyer. The legs are out of proportion, with tiny thighs and gigantic shins. The arms are.. awkward, and I'm being nice. The entire neck/head section looks like a bunch of parts thrown together. The colour scheme is boring, a far cry from the striking and unique colour palette of Umarak the Hunter. The otherwise good mask is rendered useless by the neon green top. There's not even an extra mask included.

-The only good part is the torso build..but that can't justify my purchase, especially since it's made up of parts I most likely already have.

-It's unaccetable that Grievous is such a good figure while BIONICLE 2016's main antagonist gets such an underwhelming set. Umarak the Hunter is a terrifying and unique monster, this "upgrade" of his looks like a generic brute.

Er, I don't think Umarak the Destroyer, with the huge claws, extremely wide upper shoulders and large claws is supposed to be a figure with super-humanoid proportions... but I do agree that Umarak the Destroyer looks like a generic brute. It really says something when they share only one colour and the torso armour piece and that's it. Why does everyone always overlook Grievous atrocious' legs? It's funny you call out Destroyer's legs when Grievous has legs that are just as horrible.

Actually, thinking about, most of the Toa this year don't look anything like their previous forms either, Tahu and Gali especially. Pohatu, both forms, hardly looks like any previous form, and we can't forget Master Lewa. Then we've got Master Kopaka, the extremely armoured set that really goes against everything G1 Kopaka's sets stood for. And of course, Master Onua, the set with the atrociously wide and awkward shoulders everyone liked for some reason, with the only resemblance to previous forms being the mask and the hunched neck.

[Leewan]

If BIONICLE is failing, then, remember when I said it showed in the designs of the sets? Well, the Beasts are a lot of evidence for that. You don't design something as atrocious as Quake Beast for a successful theme.

And what's the logic behind designing "something as atrocious as Quake Beast" for a failing theme ? You'd think if a theme is not successful, they would at least try to save it by designing good sets, wouldn't they ?

The designers are trying to make something different from the Uniters, and I like that. However, they are seemingly lacking budget. Quake Beast and Storm Beast have some neat ideas, but they clearly suffer from being 15€ sets.

What mostly disappoints me with this wave is the lack of originality. Humanoid beasts, yay ! I had a discussion with TheOneVeyronian a few weeks ago, and we evoked the possibility of the Beasts being like the corrupted Rahi : basically evil animals. From the names, I was seeing Storm Beast as an electric bird (with a flapping function constructed like either Skull Basher or some of the Creatures), Quake Beast as a gorilla-like creature (a mix of Terak and Raw Jaw), and we thought of Lava Beast as a hound-like creature, with a jaw feature similar to Muaka & Kane-Ra, but which made use of a shadow trap as a mouth.

With the actual sets, the designers are trying new things, which is good, but the basic idea behind the Beasts is too unoriginal.

EDIT : I also fail to understand the reason behind the custom legs on the Beasts. Seriously, why not using regular bones ?

[Aanchir]

If BIONICLE is failing, then, remember when I said it showed in the designs of the sets? Well, the Beasts are a lot of evidence for that. You don't design something as atrocious as Quake Beast for a successful theme.

You'd have to be crazy to believe that the person who designed Quake Beast thought it was an atrocious design. Hardly anybody designs toys badly on purpose, whether it's for a successful toy line or a failing one. "Atrociousness" is subjective, and I'm sure you could find people who consider sets from wildly successful themes like Ninjago or Friends "atrocious".

This is not a defense of Quake Beast's design. I don't like it either. But your argument rests on the shaky assumptions that the designer knowingly made the set unlikable, and that designers for failing themes care less about the quality of their designs than designers of successful ones. Neither of those assumptions holds water.

Actually, thinking about, most of the Toa this year don't look anything like their previous forms either, Tahu and Gali especially. Pohatu, both forms, hardly looks like any previous form, and we can't forget Master Lewa. Then we've got Master Kopaka, the extremely armoured set that really goes against everything G1 Kopaka's sets stood for. And of course, Master Onua, the set with the atrociously wide and awkward shoulders everyone liked for some reason, with the only resemblance to previous forms being the mask and the hunched neck.

Regarding Kopaka Master of Ice, there's nothing about an "extremely armored" design that really goes against anything G1 Kopaka's sets stood for. Kopaka has never really been any less armored than his teammates. His shoulders were narrower than Tahu's, Gali's, or Onua's in his original 2001 design, but it takes some real self-delusion to say that one trait of that one set equates to "everything G1 Kopaka's sets stood for". By that argument you could say that Toa Metru Onewa went against everything previous Onewa sets stood for because he was one of the shortest Toa Metru despite being the tallest Turaga. Really, bundling Kopaka up for increased protection fits both his environment and his personality to a T, considering he inhabits an inhospitable icy region and has always been very "guarded" emotionally.

Besides Onua Master of Earth's primary color, mask, and hunched neck, he was also tied with Pohatu as the shortest of the 2015 Toa, and had clawlike weapons. Additionally, his new bulky design was a reflection of the character's incredible physical strength... which, even though it was a a magical ability of the G1 Onua rather than a physical trait, played a big role in how he interacted with his friends, enemies, and with the world around him.

Lewa Master of Air had weapons that allowed him to soar through the air and echoed both his 2001 and 2002 tools, a green primary color, a mask with a dome-shaped forehead and air vents in the cheeks to simulate a grin, and lanky, almost simian-looking proportions that emphasized his playfulness and agility. Whether or not you liked these design choices, they were true to a very straightforward interpretation of the character.

Even Pohatu Master of Stone, in addition to having an extremely familiar-looking mask, was given armored boots that gave him a sturdy, well-rooted look to emphasize his steadfastness. He was shorter than all of his fellow Toa besides Onua, and had a slightly ragtag look that suited his desert environment. His primary color was a middle ground between his 2001 and 2008 primary colors. Overall, these may have been major reinterpretations of how these characters looked, they were still fundamentally rooted in how the designers saw these characters. They definitely did their research.

And besides, even a lot of the controversy over the 2016 redesigns has more to do with people disliking some of the design decisions on their own individual merits than with those design decisions being unfaithful to the characters. 2016 Gali has asymmetry that 2015 Gali did not have, and as I've learned, a weapon that makes her awkward to try and pose, but these things is not fundamentally at odds with the character's identity. 2016 Tahu is still a tall, resplendent, and fiery hero like the 2015 version, even if his silhouette is no longer as distinctive. There are many of these changes I do dislike, but I don't make the mistake of thinking they go against everything the characters stand for.

What mostly disappoints me with this wave is the lack of originality. Humanoid beasts, yay ! I had a discussion with TheOneVeyronian a few weeks ago, and we evoked the possibility of the Beasts being like the corrupted Rahi : basically evil animals. From the names, I was seeing Storm Beast as an electric bird (with a flapping function constructed like either Skull Basher or some of the Creatures), Quake Beast as a gorilla-like creature (a mix of Terak and Raw Jaw), and we thought of Lava Beast as a hound-like creature, with a jaw feature similar to Muaka & Kane-Ra, but which made use of a shadow trap as a mouth.

On some levels I disagree. We don't know much about the story significance of these beasts, but just judging from what we've seen so far, they are probably not meant to be a part of nature like the creatures are. Rather, they seem to be the island's natural forces warped into something disastrous and profoundly unnatural. That's not to say they HAVE to be humanoid, necessarily, but even if they were based more on the physiques of real creatures, I think they would've needed some even stronger design cues to emphasize that no, they aren't just enemy wildlife. They should, on some level, feel like abominations.

I think that's something that the beasts do fairly well, actually, though they could have arguably done it just as well or better with less humanoid designs. There's no mistaking them for a race of people like the Toa or the islanders of Okoto, or even on some levels the Skull Creatures, which besides Scorpio can be assumed to have once been people. But there's also no mistaking them for mere animals, not even evil ones like the Lord of Skull Spiders or Skull Scorpio. They are something that falls unsettlingly outside both of those spheres — monsters.

As for Umarak the Destroyer, it's true that he seems more like a brute than a wily spirit of darkness and the hunt, but I believe that is the intent. His transformation doesn't seem to me like it's meant to be merely an "upgrade". It corrupts him, turning him, too, into a monster. Unlike the Toa, who we're typically meant to believe are still the same people inside before and after a typical transformation, I don't think we can safely assume the same of Umarak.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Aanchir

[DraikNova]

They evoke the "abomination" aspect pretty well, but only by being abominations towards good design sense. Really, if they wanted them to look like abominations rather than natural creatures, they could have probably have evoked that best by giving them extremely unnatural proportions, like long, spindly legs (being consistently unarmored looks better than making limbs half-armored) for Storm Beast (evoking cartoonish lightning bolts with their digitgrade jaggedness), freakishly bulbous shoulders with short lower arms for Lava Beast (possibly using a special piece to make the shoulders look more like little volcanos) and maybe a large number of single-bone limbs and no eyes for Quake Beast (evoking cave-adapted creatures). They'd have to ditch the functions for these things to work best, but while the functions are original, they also have a profoundly negative effect on the Beasts' appearance.

[Leewan]

That's not to say they HAVE to be humanoid, necessarily, but even if they were based more on the physiques of real creatures, I think they would've needed some even stronger design cues to emphasize that no, they aren't just enemy wildlife. They should, on some level, feel like abominations.

Of course, I should've been more precise, what I had in mind was closer to monstrous beasts than evil counterparts for the 1H Creatures, without going as far as DraikNova (what you're suggesting could give nightmares to kids ).

[Quisoves Pugnat]

If BIONICLE is failing, then, remember when I said it showed in the designs of the sets? Well, the Beasts are a lot of evidence for that. You don't design something as atrocious as Quake Beast for a successful theme.

You know, I'm getting rather annoyed with all this presumptuous, implicit dissing of the designers' work-ethics. Do folks really think that, faced with a line that's at its end, they simply shrug and think Meh, why bother? That would be terribly unprofessional. You might dislike some of the sets they design, but with no insights into their lives, you've no reason to attribute that to a failure of character on their parts.

Besides, what about one-off themes like Monster Fighters or Galaxy Squad? Those are quite common. Are you saying that the designers don't give a tinker's cuss about doing those well?

EDIT: In fact, if we could glean insights into Gen2's success from the 2016 sets (and, given how far in advance LEGO prepares these things, I don't think we can,) then surely shoddy sets would be indicative of a rushed design-period, the sort of thing that might occur if LEGO were trying to meet an overwhelming demand for the series?

Edited February 18, 2016 by Quisoves Pugnat

[BrickBuilder3213]

Has anyone worked out how to replicate the beasts' functions?

[santaends]

This thread is getting more toxic with every passing day. Everyone feels so self entitled when we all know designers have budgets to work with. How else can we get an affordable price without sacrificing some parts.

We got to appreciate how they try to bring more technic functions with such a small budget, but everyone else is complaining why it doesn't look as good as G1, 2015 or this year's Toa.

Can't we hear something good for a change..

[Fulcrumfan91]

I for one am absolutely buying Storm Beast whenever he comes out. I'm terribly interested in building it and playing around with the function. I like lava beast, and I also don't mind quake beast, even though he doesn't look pleasing to the eye....but again, I think that's the point. Quake beast is an abomination, he's got weird, unnatural colours, crystal growths for arms...it makes sense to me. I'm still likely only getting Storm Beast out of them all...but would consider Lava Beast and Ekimu. Don't care too much about Umarak...not sure if that'll change, I get the idea behind him and kinda like it....but I dunno, I'm pretty pleased with the Hunter version.

[geezerman402]

Hey I can be positive! I can't wait to get Storm Beast, and maybe Lava Beast (his colours remind me of Torch from Throwbots). But I still need to get Umurak the Hunter and Kopaka w/ Melum. I wish I had the time and money to get all the Bionicle sets, but so many other Lego themes call to me just as strongly. It's not easy being me.

[TwistLaw]

The team behind the second generation of BIONICLE did an amazing job, especially considering the limited budget they had.

Now, if we wanna talk about the aforementioned budget and how in general LEGO did handle the return of their strongest IP ever... that's another story.

I sure like to be pessimist and enjoy using hyperboles and such, but for sure there are many things to be disappointed about G2. But very few of them are caused by "laziness" or any other derogatory term.

[GK733]

The problem with the lack of villains and the feel of sets lacking overall would be easy to counter by making the smaller $10 sets almost polybag tier.

Certainly they wouldn't be as cool as the $10 sets but for me personally I could easily do without the traps at least. Making the smaller sets, well smaller would help to focus with the larger sets. I'm not saying I know it, it's just what I'm assuming would happen.

I feel that the protectors used too many pieces for their torso build, two shells, 2 technic CCBS connectors and addon + some pins. While now you could simply slap something like unity piece on there and save a lot.

[dviddy]

LEGO did handle the return of their strongest IP ever... that's another story.

I don't know, I liked Ninjago: Rebooted okay.

[santaends]

Hey I can be positive! I can't wait to get Storm Beast, and maybe Lava Beast (his colours remind me of Torch from Throwbots). But I still need to get Umurak the Hunter and Kopaka w/ Melum. I wish I had the time and money to get all the Bionicle sets, but so many other Lego themes call to me just as strongly. It's not easy being me.

I feel you buddy. I haven't got Kopaka Melum as well. Saving up for a DSLR and a proper backdrop.. but I gave in and got Umarak.

He's a good build.. very unique, gives a strong 2016 vibe. Introduced me to more ccbs cum technic pieces like the Hordika necks.. which is what CCBS needs to progress imo.

Storm beast will be a pass for me, I'm sure many would buy it for earth blue shell though. Lava beast would be good for the trans red bone..

Didn't play with Bionicle when I was a wee lad, so I don't know how close the colours are to Torch. Picture for comparison anyone? :D

Edited February 19, 2016 by santaends

[Aanchir]

I don't know, I liked Ninjago: Rebooted okay.

Ohhhhhh! He said it!

In all seriousness, Ninjago is probably a lot stronger than Bionicle has been in a long, long time. A look at Google Trends could give you a good sense of that. It's generated more search interest in the past twelve years than Bionicle did, and it didn't even exist for the first seven of those years. I think Bionicle still may have a lead in terms of net sales by virtue of having had a longer overall lifespan, but in terms of single-year sales, Ninjago beat Bionicle (and for that matter, every other previous theme) in its very first year. And it continues to demonstrate an insane amount of momentum, especially for a theme that was very nearly discontinued.

*sick burn* aside, Ninjago: Rebooted was probably one of the weaker story arcs and set lines, but it was a good first step to getting the line back on its feet after what would have been its grand finale. Bionicle G2 did have a lot more to prove, though, since it was a theme whose peak sales were over a decade ago, not less than two years gone. Bringing back a theme that was mistakenly set to be discontinued too soon is probably an easier decision than bringing back a theme that was ended after much deliberation because it had been in decline for years.

[geezerman402]

Didn't play with Bionicle when I was a wee lad, so I don't know how close the colours are to Torch. Picture for comparison anyone? :D

The resemblance is really just that it is red and black, but my nostalgia makes that matter!

http://brickset.com/sets?query=Slizer Have a glance through those... the precursors to Bionicle, in a way.

[Quisoves Pugnat]

Bringing back a theme that was mistakenly set to be discontinued too soon is probably an easier decision than bringing back a theme that was ended after much deliberation because it had been in decline for years.

But wasn't the reason BIONICLE was cancelled when it was, as opposed to a few years down the line, that LEGO wanted it to be viable for a reboot? I'm under the impression that it was always a matter of "when," not "if."

That said, yes, I'd imagine LEGO wanted to test the waters with Gen2. I don't doubt that BIONICLE has the potential to be as huge as Ninjago, what with LEGO's current popularity, but Metru Nui wasn't built in a day. If nothing else, there has always been something of a Constraction Ghetto, what with the system being spun off of a spin-off of the main System. This is perfectly natural, but it does mean that any original constraction line has to work extra-hard to succeed.

[Logan McOwen]

EDIT : I also fail to understand the reason behind the custom legs on the Beasts. Seriously, why not using regular bones ?

This. I'd understand if the builds offered angles, details or whatever that bone-based builds couldn't, by really they don't offer much at all besides a slightly higher piece-count. Good intentions, bad execution.

toxic

entitled

stop

[santaends]

stop

What about it. Anything constructive to add, voice out. I don't take shit from anyone just because they say stop for no reason.

But yeah I agree with you. Things will only get better.

[Voxovan]

I don't doubt that BIONICLE has the potential to be as huge as Ninjago, what with LEGO's current popularity, but Metru Nui wasn't built in a day.

It definitely has a potential, but it's nearly impossible for this theme to become the "next big thing" with its pretty much non-existent advertising campaign.

[DraikNova]

Of course, I should've been more precise, what I had in mind was closer to monstrous beasts than evil counterparts for the 1H Creatures, without going as far as DraikNova (what you're suggesting could give nightmares to kids ).

Kids tend to be quite good at handling scary stuff, probably because kids have a tendency to misinterpret a lot of stuff to be scarier than it actually is.

Anyway, I doubt Bionicle G2 will be particularly big. It has relatively little media compared to big bang themes, and there's always the anti-constraction bias to overcome. I figure that the only way a constraction theme will become really popular is if it consists of system-based action figures.

[santaends]

I hate to say it, but you may be on to something. Maybe insert a couple of IP minifigs in it. They sell like hot cakes.

But then again, invasion from below didn't do that well either.

[DraikNova]

Was that ever confirmed?

Anyway, even if that's true, it was still based on CCBS rather than system.

[Tazakk]

The big deal is the Journey to One trailer right now, but the first 2016 designer video and a new "Kids Video" have popped up on the site, too.

[Quisoves Pugnat]

It definitely has a potential, but it's nearly impossible for this theme to become the "next big thing" with its pretty much non-existent advertising campaign.

Non-existent? This year, it's got a Netflix-series. Last year, it had the animations. Not to mention the various TV spots and the books and the graphic novels. That's far from non-existent.

Besides, how much advertising did Ninjago get in its first two years? More than BIONICLE, yes, but how much more? I honestly don't remember it getting that much. It wasn't until LEGO decided to bring it back that I keyed into what a big deal it was.

Speaking of which, what was up with that? Did Ninjago's popularity surge unexpectedly in its second year? It seems odd, nowadays, that LEGO could so underestimate the popularity of one of its lines.