Bionicle 2016 Sets Discussion

[Kalhiki]

At the rate that TLG is actively developing the new characters (read: slowly), ditching the characters after two years would probably be a greater offense than the possibility of them being overused by their first year. Especially if 2017 could potentially be the last year of G2, regardless of whether it actually will be, the new Toa team would end up being extremely underdeveloped, especially if they had no G1 counterparts to allow fans to fill in the blanks of their characters.

Also. Shall I mention Hero Factory's five-year run with the same characters?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't mind seeing the same team released every other wave (I mean, I pretty much got every HF set that came out!). I'm just saying that I can see where people are coming from. Heck, I would like to see some new characters eventually to mix things up, but right now the story isn't calling for it.

I don't know, there's a number of factors. Personally, I like to see new characters, but I also like to see older characters upgraded. I guess it all depends on how the story goes.

[DuplexBeGreat]

Let me ask you a question regarding that second point of yours as an answer: have you bought different versions of the same character throughout every Bionicle line? I sure have. I now own three versions of Tahu. Uniter Tahu is not Tahu Nuva from 2003, they are very different sets altogether. Secondly, it actually would be funner, because you get innovation out of the later releases. Maybe the first figure missed something, or there's a new design gimmick which works better.

The reason I dislike the idea of us getting "Toa 3.0" next year is that it invalidates the 2016 sets, just as the 2015 sets have already been invalidated. The concepts represented by the older Toa are no longer a part of the story; they have been replaced by the 2017 sets, and now in order to have an "accurate" representation of the current story one must purchase the Toa all over again. For the third time.

[dviddy]

Fans of every other toyline don't seem to mind getting different versions of the same characters over and over. Take a walk down the toy aisles and just count the different versions of the same red ranger. On the shelf at the same time. This is an industry standard for a reason.

[xboxtravis7992]

Well I'd like to see more characters... But in retrospect Gen 1 kind of introduced way to many characters. The original Toa Mata were only there 2001, 2002-3, and 2008. Despite being the main Toa, they missed half the franchise.

If Gen 2 ever introduced a second Toa team it would be nice to see them alternate yearly with the main Toa to keep both teams in the spotlight.

[santaends]

Well I'd like to see more characters... But in retrospect Gen 1 kind of introduced way to many characters. The original Toa Mata were only there 2001, 2002-3, and 2008. Despite being the main Toa, they missed half the franchise.

If Gen 2 ever introduced a second Toa team it would be nice to see them alternate yearly with the main Toa to keep both teams in the spotlight.

That would be awesome. New mask shapes.. new character. Maybe the next earth Toa won't be as cuddly as Onua. It will be badass instead.

If Gen 2 ever introduced a second Toa team it would be nice to see them alternate yearly with the main Toa to keep both teams in the spotlight.

1 word: Teamups!

I wonder why there aren't Toas with combined elements. Is it because it's too unstable for a mask to have 2 elements? If there was a way to circumvent that we would have nice things. Not like twoface from HF, but maybe characters with complementing colours. Different from primary colour + the ubiquitous silver/ gold/ white.

Edited February 7, 2016 by santaends

[Strakk]

Let me ask you a question regarding that second point of yours as an answer: have you bought different versions of the same character throughout every Bionicle line? I sure have. I now own three versions of Tahu. Uniter Tahu is not Tahu Nuva from 2003, they are very different sets altogether. Secondly, it actually would be funner, because you get innovation out of the later releases. Maybe the first figure missed something, or there's a new design gimmick which works better.

I was saying another thing: I was talking about playing with them. You are considering only the way the set looks.

I have all of the regular edition "medium" Bionicle sets excluding the Toa Mata and I own four versions of Tahu and five of Lewa (Nuva,Phantoka, Mistika, Master and Uniter) but I stopped playing with my sets years ago. Now I only put them only my shelf.

Fans of every other toyline don't seem to mind getting different versions of the same characters over and over. Take a walk down the toy aisles and just count the different versions of the same red ranger. On the shelf at the same time. This is an industry standard for a reason.

I don't know if you were indirectly answering to me, but it depends a lot on what type of line we are talking about. Some franchises have many collectors (nostalgia reasons or simply to collect them) that I don't think Bionicle has.

Also, perhaps I don't remember, when I was a kid, me or my friends having many versions of the same characters.

Anyway, my point is that with support coming from other media (TV show, more online content for example) a serie has more chances to survive while being repetitive (the power rangers that you were talking about). Unfortunately, the BIonicle TV show is going to be more like a serie of special episodes rather than a long show.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Strakk

[DraikNova]

Personally, I'd prefer if Bionicle went for the Hero Factory route of introducing enough characters to make a secondary team, which would allow for alternating of featured characters. That way we wouldn't get, say, Onua four years in a row, but after 2016 we would instead get Onua, [new Toa if Earth], Onua, [nToE], etc.

[Aanchir]

It is boring from two points of view as a toy line (only):

- if you follow the story you always read about the same characters (because after all the story is mainly about them);

There's nothing boring about that at all unless the characters are badly written. Harry Potter fans didn't seem to have a problem reading about the same main characters for seven books over ten years. The Animorphs chapter book series stuck with the same main characters for over 50 books released over 5 years. LEGO Ninjago has gone over 5 years and 64 episodes with the same main characters and is still one of the LEGO Group's strongest original themes. My Little Pony Friendship is Magic has managed to keep the same main characters for over 5 years and 100 episodes. If the characters of all these franchises can have so much staying power, why do are so many people so convinced that Bionicle's main characters can't make it more than two or three years without wearing out their welcome? It's strange to hear such a dire view of the Bionicle story from actual Bionicle fans.

- this is mainly for kids (after all the theme became simpler for them), but if you are playing with your Bionicle sets as action figures, is it really fun to play with many versions of the same character?

Personally, yes, I'd generally rather play with characters I know and understand and care about, and who I've gotten to see grow and develop, than with random newcomers who show up to take their place. Not that new main characters can never work in an established series, but they generally have to work a lot harder to prove themselves than characters who have already secured a place in existing fans' hearts. Particularly if those existing fans blame the new characters for the series' most beloved characters being shoved out of the spotlight.

Bionicle G1 was able to get away with it in part because aside from 2009 (which only shared one main character with previous story years), every year's main characters WERE established characters, even if they'd originally been introduced as supporting characters. Even so, I do not know if its frequent cast-switching was the wisest strategy.

[Bbrink1996]

Personally, I'd prefer if Bionicle went for the Hero Factory route of introducing enough characters to make a secondary team, which would allow for alternating of featured characters. That way we wouldn't get, say, Onua four years in a row, but after 2016 we would instead get Onua, [new Toa if Earth], Onua, [nToE], etc.

I think this aspect is covered with the Protectors. If Bionicle lasts beyond 2017, they could make the Protectors the new Toa through a story development. Kinda of like how the Toa Inika/Mahri were Matoran first. If they go this route that would mean we would get a female Toa of Earth(Korgot) which i'm sure the community would love.

[Leewan]

Even so, I do not know if its frequent cast-switching was the wisest strategy.

It was refreshing. I think what we had was better than seeing Tahu Metru, Tahu Hordika, Tahu Inika, and so on. Introducing new characters allow to bring in new design concepts without having characters that don't look like their past selves, like the Toa of 2008. dviddy mentioned the Red Ranger, but it's not really comparable to Bionicle, because different persons have taken the name of Red Ranger over the years, while there has already been only one Tahu in the G1.

[dviddy]

It's comparable because there are all those red rangers on the shelf, at once. Just like the dozen different Batman toys, or Star Wars figures. You're talking two different versions a year apart, these other lines are doing different versions at once.

[xboxtravis7992]

It was refreshing. I think what we had was better than seeing Tahu Metru, Tahu Hordika, Tahu Inika, and so on. Introducing new characters allow to bring in new design concepts without having characters that don't look like their past selves, like the Toa of 2008. dviddy mentioned the Red Ranger, but it's not really comparable to Bionicle, because different persons have taken the name of Red Ranger over the years, while there has already been only one Tahu in the G1.

And I kind of disagree. We went 4 years without the Toa Nuva (while the Metru and Ignition story happened). While I love the Inika and Metru, it was frustrating to see so little of the Toa Nuva. I remember when they briefly showed up in 2006 in the books,only long enough to be beat by the Pirahka. By the time they returned in 2008 it seemed a little late to the story.

[Strakk]

There's nothing boring about that at all unless the characters are badly written. Harry Potter fans didn't seem to have a problem reading about the same main characters for seven books over ten years. The Animorphs chapter book series stuck with the same main characters for over 50 books released over 5 years. LEGO Ninjago has gone over 5 years and 64 episodes with the same main characters and is still one of the LEGO Group's strongest original themes. My Little Pony Friendship is Magic has managed to keep the same main characters for over 5 years and 100 episodes. If the characters of all these franchises can have so much staying power, why do are so many people so convinced that Bionicle's main characters can't make it more than two or three years without wearing out their welcome? It's strange to hear such a dire view of the Bionicle story from actual Bionicle fans.

Personally, yes, I'd generally rather play with characters I know and understand and care about, and who I've gotten to see grow and develop, than with random newcomers who show up to take their place. Not that new main characters can never work in an established series, but they generally have to work a lot harder to prove themselves than characters who have already secured a place in existing fans' hearts. Particularly if those existing fans blame the new characters for the series' most beloved characters being shoved out of the spotlight.

Bionicle G1 was able to get away with it in part because aside from 2009 (which only shared one main character with previous story years), every year's main characters WERE established characters, even if they'd originally been introduced as supporting characters. Even so, I do not know if its frequent cast-switching was the wisest strategy.

I wrote it in my previous post, but I repeat: toy line (only). Then in the same post I wrote

As toy line based on a TV show, the fact of using the same characters may not be as bad at all. I guess that helps to develop more the characters and to get more attached to them.

That, seeing the numer of views on youtube for example, could have helped the Hero Factory formula last longer.

If Bionicle was getting a higher number of episodes, I would see a stronger possibility of surving longer with the same characters.

Is there any toy line (born as a toy line), whose story is based on a single adventure, that has lasted more than three years repeating the same characters, without the help of a TV show?

Also I added

However the first generation of Bionicle had a more developed story too and that helped introducing, as Toa, characters that in fact had already been introduced in the first years.

At the moment apart from the Toa,we haven't much about the secondary characters.

what I mean is that introducing characters that weren't mentioned before in the story isn't as interesting as developing characters that you already have in the story that were not in the spotlight.

So far (apart from books or comics that only a small part of who buys Bionicle read) I don't see much information about the secondary characters or their personality.

In my opinion if the Bionicle G2 story is kept to a minimum together with only a few TV episodes, games and online content, it will be hard to introduce different characters as heroes. Do another MNOG. In 2016 many more kids have access to the internet and that could be a good success and help expanding the story, telling more about the single characters. Compare it to the first Bionicle years and you will see that this opportunity could be used way more.

One last thing, you say "Personally, yes, I'd generally rather play with characters I know and understand and care about, and who I've gotten to see grow and develop, than with random newcomers who show up to take their place." But how do you play with three versions of the same character at the same time unless you create new characters and give them those bodies?

Edited February 7, 2016 by Strakk

[Leewan]

It's comparable because there are all those red rangers on the shelf, at once.

But it's not always the same Red Ranger. They all are Red Rangers, but under the masks there are different guys (although it's certainly not obvious when you see the toys). However, the same can't certainly be said for Batman, so on this point I agree.

And I kind of disagree. We went 4 years without the Toa Nuva (while the Metru and Ignition story happened). While I love the Inika and Metru, it was frustrating to see so little of the Toa Nuva. I remember when they briefly showed up in 2006 in the books,only long enough to be beat by the Pirahka. By the time they returned in 2008 it seemed a little late to the story.

I was talking about the sets, not the story. Although yes, the (almost) total absence of the Toa Nuva from the story during four years was certainly a mistake, and in 2008, I wasn't much following the story, so when I saw that they were coming back, I thought "Huh, but what did they do during all this time ?"

[Aanchir]

It was refreshing. I think what we had was better than seeing Tahu Metru, Tahu Hordika, Tahu Inika, and so on. Introducing new characters allow to bring in new design concepts without having characters that don't look like their past selves, like the Toa of 2008.

I don't think it has to be a choice between replacing the main characters every two years and having characters who don't look like their past selves. Besides the 2.0 and 3.0 versions in 2011, most new versions of Hero Factory heroes managed to be very recognizable for who they were. LEGO Ninjago's main characters also tend to do a good job staying true to their past appearances without feeling like a straight rehash of their previous forms. Even the new 2016 Toa, in spite of whatever flaws they might have, are unmistakably the same characters as their 2015 counterparts — and the 2015 Toa, in turn, were fairly recognizable for what G1 characters they were based on.

The 2008 Toa may not have been very recognizable for who they were, but LEGO has done a much better job keeping their characters recognizable in recent years. So I don't think it's unreasonable to think the 2008 Toa could have been more recognizable, particularly if they'd had the opportunity for their appearances to change gradually from year to year instead of having to go straight from 2002 design standards to 2008 design standards without any new designs in between.

[avatarbrickman]

What if there were 3 Toa from the current team, and 3 NEW Toa introduced in the same year? Like Tahu, Onua, and Pohatu. and then 3 new ones. The year after that they could bring back Lewa, Kopaka, and Gali and 3 more new ones to complete the new Toa team? Then people would have time to get used to the new Toa, while still having the main group.

[ToaDraco]

Honestly, I'd prefer to stick to the core team every year while introducing a new hero character in the summer to fight the villain wave, like Takanuva did in 2003 and Ekimu last year. Hopefully, if the line continues past next year I think Ekimu should be more behind the scenes from a story perspective and bring in a new hero or Toa to freshen things up and represent new elements. What HF did worked well adding in new characters a little at a time and swapping them out to keep the team fresh but it also meant that certain characters didn't get much spotlight, like poor Stringer or Bulk while characters like Furno, Stormer and Rocka got a new version every year and in some cases multiple versions. I'd be concerned that certain characters would get pushed aside for the sake of ensuring we still had a new Tahu and Kopaka every single wave. Pohatu wouldn't stand a chance for sure, he'd be left back in a village polishing rocks to make room for a Toa of Lightning or something cooler and flashier.

[Dorek]

What if there were 3 Toa from the current team, and 3 NEW Toa introduced in the same year? Like Tahu, Onua, and Pohatu. and then 3 new ones. The year after that they could bring back Lewa, Kopaka, and Gali and 3 more new ones to complete the new Toa team? Then people would have time to get used to the new Toa, while still having the main group.

Then people would go "but where's XXXX? he/she was my favorite!" at any given point. Look what happened with Hero Factory. The structure of set releases doesn't really support that kind of rotation, which is why G1 BIONICLE would replace entire teams.

[xboxtravis7992]

I was talking about the sets, not the story. Although yes, the (almost) total absence of the Toa Nuva from the story during four years was certainly a mistake, and in 2008, I wasn't much following the story, so when I saw that they were coming back, I thought "Huh, but what did they do during all this time ?"

Makes sense. And the Toa Metru and Toa Inika were really great sets, although storywise that was a long time without the Toa Nuva... I love all three teams, but the Toa Nuva were the most iconic.

But if Lego wants to introduce a new team they need to balance the story better to.

Edited February 7, 2016 by xboxtravis7992

[Leewan]

I don't think it has to be a choice between replacing the main characters every two years and having characters who don't look like their past selves.

I don't necessary think we should change the main characters specifically every two years (and I'd be kinda disappointed if the Toa we know aren't those who fight Makuta in 2017), but I think it would be good to see new heroes after 2017, if Lego decides to keep Bionicle running. I'd like to see a new story arc bringing its own heroes (or even put in the spotlight characters we already know, like the Protectors).

LEGO Ninjago's main characters also tend to do a good job staying true to their past appearances without feeling like a straight rehash of their previous forms.

It's not really the same thing, Ninjago's characters are minifigs, and their appearances mostly rely on different prints (and, in Ninjago's case, different headgears). When it comes to a Constraction line, it's a lot different, they have to offer new and / or unique builds and stay true to the original characters. It's much more complicated. However, I agree about the Heroes, although I think the fact that they had the same helmets in 2010 and in 2012 (except Evo and Nex, of course) greatly helped, because the helmets were an important part of their identities. Which makes me think that perhaps, instead of having new masks again, the Toa of 2017 could have full-transparent versions of their original masks.

[xboxtravis7992]

Finally got Umarak! My thoughts, he is tall and imposing and looks cool, but that bow is harder to pose than Skull Warrior's bow

[CabooseBM]

I wouldn't mind a new cast of characters after 2017, since then the original team will have completed their "arc".

[The Outsider]

Just to to give my two-cents on the "new team vs. old team" debate: I think that really depends on the kind of story LEGO tells. Something like this generation of BIONICLE or Ninjago, where there is only one operating team from the start, doesn't really need new heroes every year, as the focus is on the development of said fixed cast. Though new characters might be introduced/promoted later, these should be saved for special occasions such as final battles (the fight with Teridax in G1; the search for the Green Ninja and the battle with the Ghost Army in Ninjago) or in the passing of the torch, to symbolize the end of a cycle.

However, in stories like Hero Factory and Exo-Force, where the heroic team is part of a larger organization, I think it would be best for the cast to rotate a bit, to avoid the sense of wasted potential. One of the things that annoyed me on both of those lines was that, according to the setting, there were so many other adventures and characters we could be following as well, but we always got stuck with the same group, with little to no addition to their ranks (Hero Factory only had Nex, Evo and Rocka as newcomers, and Exo-Force only got Hitomi for a single year before being discarded in the Jungle arc). Hero Factory was a bit better, rotating among the fixed cast of 9, but they still got stuck using three "central" characters (Stormer, Furno and later Rocka) in every storyline instead of, for example, having one or two in one mission/wave and the other(s) in another mission/wave occuring simultaneously in-story.

However, what's really important (at least for me) is that both these new and old characters are suitably explored, and that the old heroes don't just get ditched so the new ones can sell their toys (unlike, say, Transformers: The Movie).

I wouldn't mind a new cast of characters after 2017, since then the original team will have completed their "arc".

Seconded, as long as the original cast has some role to play in the story (for example, as a mentor; or as a King In The Mountain).

Edited February 8, 2016 by The Outsider

[Onepu the Protector]

A smaller cast is easier to manage and develop so I don't necessarily want a new Toa team in G2.

[Toa_Bomb]

man, i haven't been here in a while

and i don't mean to derail the discussion

because i'm not sure which topic (story or sets) to post this under

but Mask of Control iOS?????????