Bionicle 2016 Sets Discussion

[MakutaOfWar]

Curious, is NYTF this month?

[xboxtravis7992]

Curious, is NYTF this month?

Yes. I know FBTB is going; although we'll need some constraction fans to go to it.

[Mesonak]

TTV will be attending NYTF as well, so we'll be reporting extensively on BIONICLE as well as most other major Lego themes. :D

[dviddy]

BZP is always there too.

[Aethersprite]

I built Umarak today, and I must say, he's incredible! I've not been this impressed with a set since 2015 Onua. I must admit that I glanced over him when I first saw the prelim images; he looked generic and boring. But after building him, I fell in love! The colours go well excellently to evoke that "forest spirit" vibe, and the trans-green is used in just the right amounts. It blends in with the other darker colours perfectly.

Also, I'm finally able to appreciate the waist articulation of the new sets. I only have Kopaka so far, and I felt like waist articulation didn't add much to him. For Umarak, however, it allows him to swing his bow around as you aim it. As an archer myself, posing him is a dream! I was starting to get tired of seeing bows in G2 sets but Umarak convinced me.

Truly a great set. I was initially convinced to get him because his mask was simply gorgeous. But now that I have him, I've come to appreciate the set as a whole! He's a refreshing change from the abysmal Skull villains. I didn't buy any of them, so technically speaking Umarak is my first G2 villain (I bought MMvSG but sold Kulta and kept Ekimu, heh). Overall, highly recommended.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Lockon Stratos

[Aanchir]

I built Umarak today, and I must say, he's incredible! I've not been this impressed with a set since 2015 Onua. I must admit that I glanced over him when I first saw the prelim images; he looked generic and boring. But after building him, I fell in love! The colours go well excellently to evoke that "forest spirit" vibe, and the trans-green is used in just the right amounts. It blends in with the other darker colours perfectly.

Also, I'm finally able to appreciate the waist articulation of the new sets. I only have Kopaka so far, and I felt like waist articulation didn't add much to him. For Umarak, however, it allows him to swing his bow around as you aim it. As an archer myself, posing him is a dream! I was starting to get tired of seeing bows in G2 sets but Umarak convinced me.

Truly a great set. I was initially convinced to get him because his mask was simply gorgeous. But now that I have him, I've come to appreciate the set as a whole! He's a refreshing change from the abysmal Skull villains. I didn't buy any of them, so technically speaking Umarak is my first G2 villain (I bought MMvSG but sold Kulta and kept Ekimu, heh). Overall, highly recommended.

Umarak is awesome, though I kind of wish he used the spring shooter like we see in this year's Star Wars buildable figures instead of yet another rapid-shooter. The spring shooter would feel a lot more "arrow-like" and, more importantly, less like a rehash of Skull Warrior's weapon. As it is, not only do Umarak's weapons feel a lot like Skull Warrior's, they almost feel like a DOWNGRADE of Skull Warrior's weapons in one key respect — he can't store his bow on his back when he's using his sword. On the plus side, his gear function makes more sense with his bow than Skull Warrior's did, since as you say it can be used to help him aim.

[Kalhiki]

he can't store his bow on his back when he's using his sword.

All you really need is a 2 module axle. Hook it to his shoulder assembly and use the included hinge bits for the Shadow Trap. Then hook the bow onto that.

Though I will agree it's sad that they didn't do that in the first place. And yeah, his weapons are pretty bland. Personally, I just leave them all stored away using my aforementioned fix.

[Aethersprite]

Umarak is awesome, though I kind of wish he used the spring shooter like we see in this year's Star Wars buildable figures instead of yet another rapid-shooter. The spring shooter would feel a lot more "arrow-like" and, more importantly, less like a rehash of Skull Warrior's weapon. As it is, not only do Umarak's weapons feel a lot like Skull Warrior's, they almost feel like a DOWNGRADE of Skull Warrior's weapons in one key respect — he can't store his bow on his back when he's using his sword. On the plus side, his gear function makes more sense with his bow than Skull Warrior's did, since as you say it can be used to help him aim.

I don't own Skull Warrior so I didn't realize their similarities in weapons; you're right! It doesn't really bother me, though - the bow and hook blade fit Umarak very well.

I don't mind the lack of bow storage. I'm more irked by the fact that the Shadow Trap halves on his shoulders get in the way of any unification. Uxar, for one, has to fold his front legs out of the way into an awkward position to properly unify with Umarak. Of course, the obvious solution is to remove the Trap halves, but I feel like they add so much character to him that removing them really diminishes from his overall look. Other than this minor gripe, though, I think he's a great set! Definitely the best G2 villain design so far (and by the looks of it, the best villain design in the first 2 years of G2).

EDIT: And yeah, the spring shooter would be a nicer function for a bow, but it's going to require a lot of System parts to integrate it to CCBS, or a new piece like Star Wars. It'd probably be too much work for Lego. The six-shooter looks good and works great; it's a gatling bow gun! Either way, I think both of them are amongst the best projectile launchers Lego has put out so far, so it doesn't really matter to me which was used.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Lockon Stratos

[MakutaOfWar]

*clears throat* On the subject of Umarak and his being a proper villain, I must say I'm feeling a little bit more irked by how emaciated/scrawny the villains have been and will be. The heroes already outnumber villains, must the villains appear so weak? On the plus side I am guessing that, UmarakTD aside, the summer villains will be a soldier class/army/horde, but still. It's not even about height, just armoring and such. They're all so skinny compared to the Toa, which was excusable last year because they were skeletons, but this year? I'm hoping next year the villains will be more substantial in numbers and size, it will be the showdown after all, give a larger sense of urgency.

[Dorek]

I don't mind the lack of bow storage. I'm more irked by the fact that the Shadow Trap halves on his shoulders get in the way of any unification. Uxar, for one, has to fold his front legs out of the way into an awkward position to properly unify with Umarak. Of course, the obvious solution is to remove the Trap halves, but I feel like they add so much character to him that removing them really diminishes from his overall look. Other than this minor gripe, though, I think he's a great set! Definitely the best G2 villain design so far (and by the looks of it, the best villain design in the first 2 years of G2).

This was actually intentional; even though the advertisements tend to show Umarak uniting with the creature as simply as the Toa do it, you're meant to take the trap halves for Umarak's specific shadow trap that gets made with the extra pieces before uniting them.

[DraikNova]

*clears throat* On the subject of Umarak and his being a proper villain, I must say I'm feeling a little bit more irked by how emaciated/scrawny the villains have been and will be. The heroes already outnumber villains, must the villains appear so weak? On the plus side I am guessing that, UmarakTD aside, the summer villains will be a soldier class/army/horde, but still. It's not even about height, just armoring and such. They're all so skinny compared to the Toa, which was excusable last year because they were skeletons, but this year? I'm hoping next year the villains will be more substantial in numbers and size, it will be the showdown after all, give a larger sense of urgency.

Yeah, that's a pretty major annoyance for me. I'd like to see them maybe split up the Toa over two waves, so that they could give them all the $15 pricepoints and leave the $20's over for some imposing villains. Or at least they could make next year's small sets villains too. Not being able to get more than one villain for the heroes to battle is a pretty major oversight.

[Ikaatril]

I think 2017 could do with being like 2003, having two waves of villains instead of one, and making the Toa the creature/protector sized sets for once. LEGO once said that small sets, impulse sets, sold the best, so why not make the protagonists the best-selling level of sets while also giving them villains which would then in all likelihood be larger and thus more threatening? Might increase the sales, too, seeing as apparently they're selling poorly enough to almost entirely pull them from Europe. Not even HF sold that badly...

[Lyichir]

I think 2017 could do with being like 2003, having two waves of villains instead of one, and making the Toa the creature/protector sized sets for once. LEGO once said that small sets, impulse sets, sold the best, so why not make the protagonists the best-selling level of sets while also giving them villains which would then in all likelihood be larger and thus more threatening? Might increase the sales, too, seeing as apparently they're selling poorly enough to almost entirely pull them from Europe. Not even HF sold that badly...

Firstly, two waves of villains in a year would likely be too much—it didn't work well in 2003, despite that year basically following your formula by making the smaller sets "good guy" Matoran. Secondly, it'd be hard to consider smaller Toa sets anything other than a downgrade—kids who already had the 2016 Toa would probably not be lining up to get smaller, weaker-looking versions of them. Thirdly, I'm pretty sure that while small sets do generally sell the best, solely on account of their price point, hero sets ALSO sell better than villain sets. Your formula basically amounts to combining two separate groups of sets that are both already predisposed to sell well, while making the larger sets that actually NEED a sales boost that much less desirable on account of all being villains.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Lyichir

[Bigger Fish]

It would be interesting if they pulled a 06-07 and released the villains first and the Heroes later.

[Lyichir]

It would be interesting if they pulled a 06-07 and released the villains first and the Heroes later.

Interesting... but not necessarily the best idea. Swapping the hero and villain waves isn't as bad as eliminating one or the other, since you'll still have both heroes and villains in a given year. The problem is, when making that transition, you inevitably wind up with a six month period when the only sets to be found reliably on shelves are the winter villain wave and the last year's summer villain wave—sets from more than a year back are not stocked nearly as reliably.

I think Lego has had a pretty winning formula for the past two years. Start with a wave of larger heroes and smaller companions, with tiny villainous minions (Skull Spiders/Shadow Traps) in some/all of the hero/companion sets, and one larger villain to command them. Then release a wave of villain sets in the summer, with one "special" hero (Ekimu in both years) to round it out.

Am I totally satisfied with the sets we've been getting? Not necessarily—I'd love some larger figures as much as anyone, and maybe even vehicles or playsets. The theme in general still has a lot of room for growth. But I don't think there's any fundamental issue with the release strategy as a whole that would merit shaking things up beyond additional set releases to each wave.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Lyichir

[Strakk]

The thing is that I don't see a new group of heroes coming next year. Unless they have already decided from more years, another wave of heroes would mean getting the Toa Mata/Nuva once again in only three years.

With 2017 as the final year, I'd like to have villans in winter and then only a few big sets in summer.

[Dorek]

The thing is that I don't see a new group of heroes coming next year. Unless they have already decided from more years, another wave of heroes would mean getting the Toa Mata/Nuva once again in only three years.

With 2017 as the final year, I'd like to have villans in winter and then only a few big sets in summer.

I would think it'd be the reverse; with three years planned, the Toa appear for one final time in the winter of 2017, and then if they extend beyond that, that's when they can play slightly looser with the concept. I can't imagine we won't see the same pattern of Heroes/Villains next year.

[Lyichir]

The thing is that I don't see a new group of heroes coming next year. Unless they have already decided from more years, another wave of heroes would mean getting the Toa Mata/Nuva once again in only three years.

With 2017 as the final year, I'd like to have villans in winter and then only a few big sets in summer.

I still fail to see what's wrong with getting the same Toa characters every year. They are the MAIN CHARACTERS. There is really no good reason to have them unavailable for buyers for any length of time.

It's true that in 2003, Bionicle went without new versions of the Toa Nuva. That was, in short, a mistake. 2002 to 2003 was Bionicle's peak and it STILL was less successful than it could have been, because apart from Takanuva there were no new Toa for kids to buy. And Toa have always been more successful than villain sets.

Also, people keep talking as if 2017 is the end of the new theme, when in reality that's far from a given. We know that they had a three year plan from the start of the theme. So did the original Bionicle. So did Ninjago. And both of those outlasted that original "end date" significantly. Lego creates these plans with the possibility of both failure and success in mind, and adjusts accordingly as the theme wears on.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Lyichir

[Kalhiki]

I still fail to see what's wrong with getting the same Toa characters every year. They are the MAIN CHARACTERS. There is really no good reason to have them unavailable for buyers for any length of time.

My only guess is repetitiveness. Getting the same characters 3 years in a row just seems... Excessive. But I guess they need to... Replenish the stock, so to speak. Except the stock is new iterations of the characters.

I guess folks like me who already have the full team from 2015 don't really feel a need to get all the 2016 Toa or all of the inevitable 2017 Toa. It all comes down to "do I need a character I already have, even if it's a different version?"

At least, that's my reasoning.

[Storm Verse]

Getting the same characters 3 years in a row just seems... Excessive.

At least, that's my reasoning.

At the rate that TLG is actively developing the new characters (read: slowly), ditching the characters after two years would probably be a greater offense than the possibility of them being overused by their first year. Especially if 2017 could potentially be the last year of G2, regardless of whether it actually will be, the new Toa team would end up being extremely underdeveloped, especially if they had no G1 counterparts to allow fans to fill in the blanks of their characters.

Also. Shall I mention Hero Factory's five-year run with the same characters?

[Fulcrumfan91]

Yeah Im in agreement with Lychir....there'0 chance the Toa a) get replaced by a new team and b) of there being two villain waves in the same year. It would make no sense tosuddenly do that.

[Ikaatril]

Also, people keep talking as if 2017 is the end of the new theme, when in reality that's far from a given. We know that they had a three year plan from the start of the theme. So did the original Bionicle. So did Ninjago. And both of those outlasted that original "end date" significantly. Lego creates these plans with the possibility of both failure and success in mind, and adjusts accordingly as the theme wears on.

While it's possible to continue past 2017, given the fact that the sets are very limited in Europe right now is significantly lowering the chances of it continuing past 2017, let alone 2016. G2's in a dire situation, and it's showing - if it repeats last year's performance of shelf-warming, there will certainly be no more BIONICLE in 2018. And, given the limited availability of this wave of G2 in Europe, it'll be hard to make sales outside North America, and you don't severely limit a theme from an entire continent if it's doing well. Like how the second wave of Chima ultrabuilds were only available on the Eurafrasian supercontinent because the first wave didn't sell well, and then stopped completely. So there's a significant amount of evidence that G2 isn't doing well at all. And, considering how much money LEGO seemed to sunk into G2's launch...

I think using the same theme name and character names for the Toa for G2 was a mistake. also. Added a lot of unneeded baggage and confusion to G2, shooting itself in the foot from the start. Not enough time had passed.

[Strakk]

I still fail to see what's wrong with getting the same Toa characters every year. They are the MAIN CHARACTERS. There is really no good reason to have them unavailable for buyers for any length of time.

It's true that in 2003, Bionicle went without new versions of the Toa Nuva. That was, in short, a mistake. 2002 to 2003 was Bionicle's peak and it STILL was less successful than it could have been, because apart from Takanuva there were no new Toa for kids to buy. And Toa have always been more successful than villain sets.

Also, people keep talking as if 2017 is the end of the new theme, when in reality that's far from a given. We know that they had a three year plan from the start of the theme. So did the original Bionicle. So did Ninjago. And both of those outlasted that original "end date" significantly. Lego creates these plans with the possibility of both failure and success in mind, and adjusts accordingly as the theme wears on.

It is boring from two points of view as a toy line (only):

- if you follow the story you always read about the same characters (because after all the story is mainly about them);

- this is mainly for kids (after all the theme became simpler for them), but if you are playing with your Bionicle sets as action figures, is it really fun to play with many versions of the same character?

When I was still a kid, I came up with a plot about substitute souls for the last point, but that's basically adding new characters.

Of course if you (not you Lyichir, I am talking in general) don't care about the story, but only about the sets, this point is irrevelant, but so it is the discussion.

That's your opinion, because I don't think there is an objective way to know that with the Nuva again the following years would have been better.

The fact that heroes sell better may be true (I wrote it too some pages ago), but wasn't my point: I said that I wouldn't like to see a new wave of the same heroes if 2017 is the final year (personal opinion from a story point of view).

However the first generation of Bionicle had a more developed story too and that helped introducing, as Toa, characters that in fact had already been introduced in the first years.

At the moment apart from the Toa,we haven't much about the secondary characters.

Also, I have never said it is going to end next year. Actually, I don't think so. However since that was the original idea and I don't think we have had any news about it so far, I added that possibility.

Also. Shall I mention Hero Factory's five-year run with the same characters?

Honestly if Hero Factory was selling as LEGO wanted, it would be still there. I am not saying it was cancelled because of the reused characters only, but it could be one of the reasons.

I didn't really care about Hero Factory that much, but wasn't the basic plot very repetitive?

As toy line based on a TV show, the fact of using the same characters may not be as bad at all. I guess that helps to develop more the characters and to get more attached to them.

That, seeing the numer of views on youtube for example, could have helped the Hero Factory formula last longer.

If Bionicle was getting a higher number of episodes, I would see a stronger possibility of surving longer with the same characters.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Strakk

[Fulcrumfan91]

there will certainly be no more BIONICLE in 2018.

I think using the same theme name and character names for the Toa for G2 was a mistake. also. Added a lot of unneeded baggage and confusion to G2, shooting itself in the foot from the start. Not enough time had passed.

Why on earth does this matter? So what if it ends in 2017? You would have gotten a plethora of good Bionicle sets that fans could only have dreamt of in g1's earlier years. It's likely subjective, but I don't see the big deal in Bionicle ending in 2017. Also, I have zero idea why you would say that last part. Bionicle, Tahu, Gali, Pohatu, Onua, Kopaka, Lewa are not names that children today (let's be reminded of the fact that Bionicle is a toy aimed at the age range given on the front of boxes) would at all be familiar with. That's the point, the brand is being re-booted, it's not the same as it was, nor is it aimed at the audience of that first line. Sure, maybe and I mean maybe, kids would do some research about these characters and find their older versions and stories on the internet, and maybe that becomes a point of confusion...although, I find that difficult to believe considering anybody will know these sets came out in 2008, 2003, 2002, etc. and that information would be just as available as information about these characters form that era.

It is boring from two points of view as a toy line (only):

- if you follow the story you always read about the same characters (because after all the story is mainly about them);

- this is mainly for kids (after all the theme became simpler for them), but if you are playing with your Bionicle sets as action figures, is it really fun to play with many versions of the same character?

Let me ask you a question regarding that second point of yours as an answer: have you bought different versions of the same character throughout every Bionicle line? I sure have. I now own three versions of Tahu. Uniter Tahu is not Tahu Nuva from 2003, they are very different sets altogether. Secondly, it actually would be funner, because you get innovation out of the later releases. Maybe the first figure missed something, or there's a new design gimmick which works better.

[santaends]

Not sure if I am right, but doesn't later releases of the same character get more complicated builds? The mote remakes there are the more complicated they get. In this case shouldn't we embrace the fact that the earlier model givse us lots of nice basic parts, and that later models give us lots of cool techniques?

Just a thought. Correct me if I am wrong but there is reason to buy the same character as differemt set models :)