Have LEGO products become more violent?

[Vindicare]

If they compared LEGO to other toys, they'd be the lowest on the totem pole. One of the most iconic toys out there are "Green Army Men". There's a whole slew on toys on the market that's sole purpose is conflict. One comment on the article even mentions the "Tom & Jerry" cartoon show...

This is just another lame attempt at bubble wrapping the world & trying to ruin it. Instead of playing with LEGO, these kids would likely be playing video games...doing the same thing this article is poorly attempting to highlight, being violent.

[xboxtravis7992]

Oh wait, I know what it was...I had parents that gave a damn and acted like parents! They taught me a set of values, instilled right and wrong into my brain...my fathers been gone more than ten years and I still hear his voice in the back of my head.

So I guess if you let a tv, video game, or a toy raise your kids, and they don't turn out so great...well I guess you've got an easy scapegoat.

Well there's the answer it looks like!

[davee123]

The study is cute. It looks like a student research paper that was done because the students like LEGO, and wanted to do something LEGO-related as their project, which is fine.

They downloaded BrickLink data, and used the easiest metric they could find to identify "weapons", because it would be very time consuming to include things like Johnny Thunder's torso, where he's packing heat (for example):

Plus, they didn't account for set life. You'll see a big spike in their data at 1984, when LEGOLAND castle had a huge inflow of sets, and another one in 1989 when Pirates showed up, but those themes didn't disappear in 1985 and 1990 respectively, unlike more modern sets which have a quick shelf-life.

As such, it's an acceptable metric, but it's not all that great. It's only enough to give a very rough idea.

Then, they did an online survey-- they didn't use people off the street of more diverse backgrounds-- they just did an online survey. Probably shot out some emails for feedback, quite possibly on LEGO boards-- and asked people. And the people that responded were mostly male (no surprise). And they rated catalog scans. But it's not clear at all what they used to represent catalog images. They say:

"In addition, we excluded pages that did not use the standard LEGO scale, such as those featuring DUPLO or Junior products."

Which... is probably fine for DUPLO. But "Junior"? I'm not sure I would have excluded it-- especially since the new Juniors line contains minifigs. Jack Stone, maybe. Even then, I'm not sure. But did they include LEGO Friends? Clearly they didn't include the Architecture series, or Creator sets.

However, that brings up a critical point regarding their FIRST metric. I thought it was pretty strange that it seemed to suggest that roughly a whopping 25% of all elements were "Minifig Weapons" as categorized by Bricklink, and that nearly 30% of sets contained weapons. Were they skipping over DUPLO, Friends, Junior, Technic, etc. in the weapon counts too? They don't say.

So. The study's title appears to be WRONG. And that's very annoying. The study is apparently a study of MINIFIG-BASED LEGO products, NOT LEGO as a whole. That's misleading-- sorta like click-bait. I expect that the study's results are still correct-- LEGO has gotten more violent. But I doubt it's as pronounced as it would suggest. So my advice to the authors: Change the title. Be exact about what you're studying.

I expect that overall, LEGO has gotten more violent, yes, but that it's probably not getting all that much worse in the last, say, 10 years. With LEGO Friends, Elves, and Disney Princess, LEGO's been attempting to attract a far less violent female market base. And things like Creator, Winter Village, Architecture, more D2C sets, etc, are likely balancing out the overall level of violence.

It WOULD be interesting to do a better study on this-- but it would take more dedication to the data than these students (I'm assuming students) really took the time for. When did violence peak? What themes have been the most violent? Etc. I think this study pointed out the rather obvious general trend, which honestly isn't really that interesting to the AFOL community at large-- I mean, really, we already knew that. It's more dangerous to the general public, because they WON'T know this study's failings, and the TITLE makes it dangerous negative publicity.

DaveE

[firefox]

i'm not going to spend a whole lot amount of time depating this pathetic excuse for a study.

I played with "violent lego" most of my young years (i didn't have any other!) and they didn't make me into a mass murdering tyran. I did however get a good education and values on the way to adulthood.

All the rest are pathetic excuses to put the blame somewhere else then where it really belongs.

[Oshikaru-Sensei]

The best way I could put how I see it is that they're letting kids see more facets of reality through Lego, rather than making it more violent. If something exists, why snuff out it's existence in their interpretation? That's just dishonest portrayal to it's source material. Example:

Lego Star Wars? Blasters exist in Star Wars, so there are blasters in Lego Star Wars Sets. Lego Superheroes? The Joker and his Goons have guns, so Lego gave them those comical Chicago Typewriters in Superhero Sets.

If anybody interpreted this question as "Have LEGO products become more violent INTENTIONALLY?" Then they don't deserve to cover this in a study or on a News outlet. They're asking the wrong question, and interpreting our question incorrectly.

It's like Strip Clubs or Prostitutes in Grand Theft Auto. The game isn't sexist for having them, they exist IN REAL LIFE. It's just emulating facets of reality for the player and the purposes of being realistic, nothing more.

[MAB]

^^^ it's not the student that likes Lego, it is the boss!

[davee123]

The best way I could put how I see it is that they're letting kids see more facets of reality through Lego, rather than making it more violent. If something exists, why snuff out it's existence in their interpretation? That's just dishonest portrayal to it's source material.

Actually, I think that's totally fair. Prostitutes exist in real life (and have for thousands of years), but as a parent, I might not want my kid to have a LEGO City set where cops raid a brothel.

Being "honest" to source material doesn't necessarily mean that you include everything with no filter. You can select the aspects of that source material that are appropriate. For example, they made Indiana Jones sets-- but for the Temple of Doom, they made a model of the mine cart chase, rather than tearing a heart out of a chest or eating monkey brains. They made Raiders of the Lost Ark, but they chose the snake pit in the tomb rather than the scene where someone's face melts off.

So, what's interesting is where they've elected to put their filter. Back in the 1980s, the police didn't even have criminals to arrest in LEGOLAND Town sets. The police used walkie talkies, traffic signs, megaphones, and apparently sat around directing traffic all day. It wasn't until 1995 that we saw our first "prisoner" minifig (funnily enough, the first set with a depiction of an "arrest" is actually in Fabuland in 1984!). Nowadays, the police lineup is a lot more "cops-and-robbers" style-wise, but they still don't have guns, tasers, pepper spray, etc. They're pretty tame for police.

Even in Star Wars (a recent and more violent theme), their filter has changed-- sets with hand-held blasters have gone from almost not there at all (2/13 in 1999) to being in almost every set (nearly 84% in 2015):

LEGO's been getting more violent as time goes on-- that's pretty clear.

But one thing that may be an important piece of the puzzle is that (I think) kids toys in general have been getting more violent and gruesome. As the internet has been getting more prevalent, kids are exposed to more and more extreme things, and it takes more extreme things to excite them-- including extreme violence. So the market in general (I expect) has been getting more violent, and LEGO's followed the trend.

DaveE

[legoman19892]

Have reseachers ran out of topics to study?

[Oshikaru-Sensei]

Actually, I think that's totally fair. Prostitutes exist in real life (and have for thousands of years), but as a parent, I might not want my kid to have a LEGO City set where cops raid a brothel.

Being "honest" to source material doesn't necessarily mean that you include everything with no filter. You can select the aspects of that source material that are appropriate. For example, they made Indiana Jones sets-- but for the Temple of Doom, they made a model of the mine cart chase, rather than tearing a heart out of a chest or eating monkey brains. They made Raiders of the Lost Ark, but they chose the snake pit in the tomb rather than the scene where someone's face melts off.

Okay, so this was my mistake - I didn't mean that I don't agree with the concern, or that portrayals of source material should continue without filter. What I meant was that, with Lego's advancements with prints, molds, and set size and scope, it totally makes sense for them to delve into more realistic, authentic blasters, swords, guns, and portrayal of more conflict-based scenarios. I merely made the Grand Theft Auto realism/authenticity comparison for the reasons of immersion, not that I think people are overreacting/not right to be concerned.

To summarize, the GTA comparison was "Here are two things that have improved in their immersion and features over time, both Lego's weapon molds and subject matter, and Grand Theft Auto's world authenticity." NOT "GTA does Strippers, so Lego should have guns and murder!"

I'm sorry if that caused any confusion.

[kermit]

Lego toys have ceased to become educational but more violent? According to a new study, the answer seems to be a yes.

According to this study from New Zealand's HIT Lab at the University of Canterbury, published in the open-access journal PLOS ONE, toys produced by The Lego Company are not as innocent as they once were.

The study's goal was not to determine the negative effects of the lego toys are at the present. Instead, the objective was to analyze how the popular toys have increasingly become more violent since they were launched in 1958.

Apparently, there is a research gap looking into this pattern and explain why toy companies will make these things designed for children become "more violent" as time goes by. "There is little research studying how violent the toys themselves have become; that is, how the toys' design might connote, encourage or depict violence, aggression or anti-social behavior," the study says.

The lead researcher, Christoph Bartneck, is also a former Lego employee. He said he felt compelled to perform the research after he observed some old Lego catalogs. Bartneck, who penned a total of eight books on these popular toys, told Mashable through email that, "My curiosity was triggered when I saw some very old Lego catalogs. Their products and the scenarios in which they were shown looked so peaceful."

in the research, Bartneck and his team carried out two investigations. First they look at the how the number of traditional lego bricks holds up to the number of weapons in sets, the number of sets that has weapons and the number of new weapons introduced yearly changed in comparison to the number of traditional bricks being introduced.

Second, they asked Lego customers how they perceive violence in the Lego toys changed through the years.

Results showed that the number of weaponized sets and parts increased steadily since the 1980s. By 2015, roughly 30% of all Lego sets included some forms of weapon. On how people perceived the violence of the sets, results showed that the participants perceived a dramatic increase of violent imagery since the 1980s. However, most perceived that the violence can be considered "playful."

The lead researcher clarified that the research in no way posits a relationship beween the increased violence of these toys and the behavior of the children who play them.

An editorial published by The Guardian however claimed that children often build weapons through lego so this should not be a big deal. Lego for one, keeps children's creativity flowing, amid all the online games and entertainment that children are bombarded with.

http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/40433/20160525/lego-toys-more-violent-potentially-dangerous-kids.htm

[Fugazi]

This article is already being discussed in another topic, merging.

[Forresto]

This issue seems to be a non issue. So what if lego is becoming more violent? If the study pointed out a causation of increased violent tendencies of children who played with Lego, then that's interesting. To say Lego is more violent without the focus being on actual tangible results regarding negative effects on those who play with them, is as useful or relevant as saying the sky is blue.

Lego is about imagination and creativity and the violence of play is going to rest within the individual child. To be honest even playing violently with Lego isn't a bad thing it's just imaginary fun i'm a strict adherent of non violence but I like war movies.

Anyways John Oliver did a hilarious and dead on segment about something similar to this on

[Youtube link].

[TheMindGarage]

LEGO has become more violent - a lot of new themes are about fantasy combat these days. But then (not going to be too political about it), the world has become more violent in some ways. Barely a day goes past without hearing about some conflict/riot. Part of this is down to stuff like improved media, but that isn't the only factor.

Plus, people are more tolerant of violence these days (mostly...). When Space Invaders was made, the makers thought "We can't have them kill people... Let's have them kill aliens instead!". Now we just sit back and laugh at this, surrounded by violent games that would probably have been banned 30 years ago. Since people are more tolerant of these things, LEGO is able to have their new themes contain a little more violence, albeit still in a fantasy setting.

[Jedi Master]

Not a bad idea. But I mean really, some of that stuff is just unavoidable. For example, you can't take away guns from Star Wars figures. I mean that's going overkill on the liberalism. There is a lot of garbage that chases teenagers away though, like all this new spy, pirate, and whatever the heck stuff, and makes Lego directed to more of a specific audience, and starts to exclude AFOLs. It's been in the history of Lego there has always been guns. I don't care and actually prefer it, it makes Star Wars feel more like Star Wars.

Ironic that it's a (now) Disney-licensed theme that's the most violent :)

That is such a good point.

[PicnicBasketSam]

Pfff. Does this study take into consideration stud-shooters and the like? That's as far away as you can possibly get from actual weapons. This year's firefighting sets use them as hose nozzles... if anything, they make things LESS violent by LEGO-izing what would otherwise actually look like a missile turret or whatever. Plus Ninjago sets come with a ton of extra weapons anyway... Master Wu Dragon came with like 5 extra katanas, and there were 4 used as decoration. I don't think these researchers were thorough enough, and frankly, aren't there other things they could be researching than clickbait?

[Andrzej777]

What was this pstudy actually about to prove?

IMHO its just a pathetic study that nobody needed and nobody asked for - just another study that doesnt get us anywhere.

IMHO there is no correlation between media and real life violence, otherwise the majority of us would be violent psychopaths (how many people have bought and played GTA?)

Most people can get violent if given the right incentives. Lego certainly isnt a part of this!

[MattGee]

First people blamed television, then music, then video games...now LEGO.

If you think the toy is too violent, stop buying it!

Oh wait, I know what it was...I had parents that gave a damn and acted like parents! They taught me a set of values, instilled right and wrong into my brain...

So I guess if you let a tv, video game, or a toy raise your kids, and they don't turn out so great...well I guess you've got an easy scapegoat.

I agree! I do not think Lego has become more violent of itself, perhaps only in the many mentions above of some of the licensed themes, where there is "conflict" portrayed.