[ESL - FB1 - class 5+] Pride of Elysabethtown

[Legostone]

I've lately been thinking about how we, as MAESTRO, should expand our fleet - many more small ships just take up so much space! So I decided to let our best shipbuilders help design a ship which can help us to deal with that problem. They have come up with one of the biggest ships I've ever seen, it is just about the same size as the Margot, but this is not a Warship! It is a ship meant for carrying a lot of cargo while still being able to defend itself against most enemies. At least I hope so, considering she is armed with 24 guns! She'll be commanded by Captain Lamar Evercrees`. Now we just have to wait for our order of sails to arrive to send THE PRIDE OF ELYSABETHTOWN off to her first journey!

So, time for pictures - just 5 of them for now, as it got knocked over by the wind while I was taking these and I have to fix some stuff (and the wind got even worse, so...):

(Maxim, please use this picture for the index)

So, now its time to wait for the new classes as this ships doesn't fit into the current ones. I guess it could be something along the lines of 8T or similar as the current tradeships tend to have a gunrating 2 levels lower than their class. With the bowsprit she"s roughly a meter long, just barely fits in my window where she'll be sitting. I haven't decided if I want to make sails for it, I feel like my typical sails would just downgrade this ship. I'll see about that. The rigging will stay as it is as it already kinda survived falling over and being covered by a blanket (which it was standing on). Rigging is a pain as some of you should know ;)

Credit goes to many people:

Captain Green Hair for his tutorials and encouraging me to go with red gunports and many more hints he gave me

Maxim I for building the Margot and inspiring me to build a double decker with CGHs technique

Bregir for encouraging me to not go with a partially disarmed ship of the line and instead build an Indiaman (and some more shiptalk)

MAESTRO for support

Sebeus I for his amazing stern designs which I used to build mine

Many more shipbuilders who's builds I used for inspiration

Edited May 8, 2016 by Legostone

[Col. Brik]

Amazingly awesome. Great details. I love the old school windows used and the color schemes. Great job!

[Captain Braunsfeld]

Great ship, looks excellent!

Long live the Eslandolean fleet!

[SilentWolf]

This is a beautiful ship. I like the tumblehome and the cabins. The brickbuilt flag on the side of the ship is also a great addition. The bow and bowsprit is my favorite part of this ship though if I picked one part out. Great job overall!

[Fuzzy MacFuzz]

Wonderful job Legostone! The rigging is amazing...actually all of it is amazing!

[The Sarge]

That's quite the fine ship you have! I can only imagine the amount goods she'll carry on her voyages.

[Elostirion]

You guys keep pumping out those amazing ships like it was no business.

One can clearly see how much effort you put into that one, and the result is definitely worth it. Just an amazing ship, great work!

[TitusV]

Elysabethtown is honoured, and the batteries of Fort Viking fire a salute when the ships sails out on it's first mission

Waw, Legostone! Great ship, and the rigging is just plain out awesome! Keep it up man!

[Phadeout]

That will certainly deserve it it's 5+ rating, very nicely designed, nice flashes of colour, the minifig look great hard at work and I wish it luck out on the Brick Seas when you can afford the probably huge license cost!

[Capt Wolf]

Wonderful ship! I love the brick-built masts, and you've done an excellent job with the rigging! The tumblehome gives her a good shape, too. Inspiring! I need to start doing detailed rigging like this on my ships.

[Tezclatipoca]

Excellent ship Legostone ! The company is proud to have such good vessels to launch !

Your rigging is great ! And yes it's a pain to succeed a so good rigging... Your time and hard work on it prevailed, so hats off sir !

I hope the wind did not damaged her too much...

[Legostone]

Amazingly awesome. Great details. I love the old school windows used and the color schemes. Great job!

Thanks! I hoped someone would notice the windows:P

Great ship, looks excellent!

Long live the Eslandolean fleet!

Thanks and indeed! I think the fleet can last a while if we keep building:P

This is a beautiful ship. I like the tumblehome and the cabins. The brickbuilt flag on the side of the ship is also a great addition. The bow and bowsprit is my favorite part of this ship though if I picked one part out. Great job overall!

Thanks! I was hesitating if I should leave them there and I guess I decided correctly:P I actually spent quite some time to get the bowsprit to this shape:P

Wonderful job Legostone! The rigging is amazing...actually all of it is amazing!

Thanks^2!

That's quite the fine ship you have! I can only imagine the amount goods she'll carry on her voyages.

Thanks! I sure hope that that is what she'll do:P

You guys keep pumping out those amazing ships like it was no business.

One can clearly see how much effort you put into that one, and the result is definitely worth it. Just an amazing ship, great work!

Well, and you keep pumping out great builds too! Thanks!

Elysabethtown is honoured, and the batteries of Fort Viking fire a salute when the ships sails out on it's first mission

Waw, Legostone! Great ship, and the rigging is just plain out awesome! Keep it up man!

I'm glad the major of her homeport likes her!

Thanks!

That will certainly deserve it it's 5+ rating, very nicely designed, nice flashes of colour, the minifig look great hard at work and I wish it luck out on the Brick Seas when you can afford the probably huge license cost!

We'll see once the next MRCA results and new ship classes are released:P I fear that it might take a few months until she'll be licensed, but luckily I won't be alone for the costs:D

Wonderful ship! I love the brick-built masts, and you've done an excellent job with the rigging! The tumblehome gives her a good shape, too. Inspiring! I need to start doing detailed rigging like this on my ships.

Thanks! I hope I inspired you there, I think your ships would definitely profit from some string based rigging;)

Excellent ship Legostone ! The company is proud to have such good vessels to launch !

Your rigging is great ! And yes it's a pain to succeed a so good rigging... Your time and hard work on it prevailed, so hats off sir !

I hope the wind did not damaged her too much...

Thanks! Well, luckily the rigging was sturdier than I had expected, so only one connection to one of the spars broke on the rigging, besides that it was just putting bricks back together. I'll take more pictures of it on the weekend, lets hope it isn't to windy then.

Should I try to make some simple triangular sails then? I think I should be able to do that, but I know I won't make the square ones - 11 of those are to much for me, considering how much more time they require to make compared to the rather simple triangular sails (I'm sorry Bregir and others who know more about ships than me for the incorrect names here;))

I would be really glad about recommendations for improvements - be it for this ship (which I might or might not change; depends on the required effort) or for future ships(which would be more useful as it wouldn't require me to change stuff with all the rigging in the way) - as I would like my future ships to be an improvement over this one.

[Captain Green Hair]

She has become a fine vessel, you really have a distinct own style which is always good!

[Tezclatipoca]

I understand your sail concern Legostone !

You rigged your vessel like something near a 3 masts schooner, or something near a brigantine but I think the best for her would be rigged and have the sail plan like a barque or an alternative, like a barquentine. You'd have less square sails to do but still some left to do...

Maybe I could help you for that, but that will be by PM. I will recommend you to see the sail plans of the vessels I recommend you. I will give you links when I can.

[Marock]

Nice Ship.

[Cousarmy0001]

Very nicely done! Though I do have to comment, I kind of feel like there should be a second gun deck.

[Legostone]

She has become a fine vessel, you really have a distinct own style which is always good!

Thanks! Wouldn't have been possible without your technique ;)

I understand your sail concern Legostone !

You rigged your vessel like something near a 3 masts schooner, or something near a brigantine but I think the best for her would be rigged and have the sail plan like a barque or an alternative, like a barquentine. You'd have less square sails to do but still some left to do...

Maybe I could help you for that, but that will be by PM. I will recommend you to see the sail plans of the vessels I recommend you. I will give you links when I can.

Its actually ship rigged, with square sails on all masts;) I feel like 17 sails would be to much effort, but thanks for the offer anyways!

Nice Ship.

Thanks!

Very nicely done! Though I do have to comment, I kind of feel like there should be a second gun deck.

Thanks! This is not a warship, so there is only one gundeck:P I just started working on a frigate, which will also just have one gundeck, but overall more guns. If you want to check out the WIP, go here; I'm trying to build it in under 24 hours buildtime:P

[Franco Clarke]

Great ship, I love the flag built into the side

[Bregir]

It has been really interesting to follow the development of this fine vessel, and I am very happy my comments on her type were helpful.

She turned out great, and the colourscheme is very striking and seems to fall in great with the other MAESTRO vessels. Let me give you a few comments:

Rigging:

Generally, she is ship-rigged, with three square-rigged masts. The only thing I can see missing is the spankersail on the mizzen mast. The mizzen spanker is an important sail, as it aids in steering and balancing the vessel, (Since squaresails have limited capabilities in this regard.) plus helps her when going closer to the wind. Perhaps a spritsail would help make the bowsprit less bare too.

If you really wanted increased realism, I would suggest dividing the masts in three parts: Lower masts, topmasts and topgallant masts - so basically, your masts should be divided once more at the platforms (tops) just above the lowest yard arms.(Basicly like your bowsprit) Of course, I would also suggest adding sails, and I will still maintain that even paper sails can add a lot. Alternatively, furled up sails would work well too, and should reasonably easy to implement.

My main concern with your rigging is the lack of tautness of the standing rigging. I think that working on getting tauter rigging would move you alot forward, as it gives you a better understanding of how the rigging actually works, looks better, and makes the whole thing more sturdy. You would need something to hold down the bowsprit (look up dolphin striker on wikipedia, for instance), to counteract the tension of the forestay. Generally, building up the tension mast by mast and spar by spar can be complex, but I find it strangely satisfying when it all stands taut and stable!

Hull:

Her overall hull shape is looking good, especially the lower deck. It seems like this could carried over to the top deck a bit better, as it seems flat in comparison. Typically, the curvature would increase as you go higher up the vessel. The tumblehome is very well-executed too.

I am also thinking it would be more accurate if the guns were placed on the upmost closed deck, rather than on the lower deck as now. It does upset the balance of the vessel abit, but also gives her longer range and easier handling of the guns, while putting the heavy cargo lower and better protected in the vessel.

The cabin is very nice, and I like the protruding windows at the end of the row of guns. The backwards sloping stern is great too, and I like the ornamental details you have included. And I like how it overhangs the rudder.

Rating:

As to her rating, I would rate this a WR, as she is a sort of compromise. She has a lot of guns for a tradeship - and with many guns comes compromises as a tradeship. First of all, they take up space and weight that must be deducted from the cargo capacity. Secondly, it takes a large crew to operate all these guns, which again takes up more space and provisions, and makes it a more expensive vessel to operate. So, given her size, she has a sizeable complement of guns, and thus crew, and must compromise on cargo.

This of course all depends on the look of the new classes, but this is a multipurpose vessel to me.

I think that was all I wanted to say for now. Very nice indiaman, and well done overall - looking forward to more from you.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Bregir

[Legostone]

Great ship, I love the flag built into the side

Thanks! I'm glad someone mentions it, I just felt like the sides needed some more decoration:D

It has been really interesting to follow the development of this fine vessel, and I am very happy my comments on her type were helpful.

She turned out great, and the colourscheme is very striking and seems to fall in great with the other MAESTRO vessels. Let me give you a few comments:

Rigging:

Generally, she is ship-rigged, with three square-rigged masts. The only thing I can see missing is the spankersail on the mizzen mast. The mizzen spanker is an important sail, as it aids in steering and balancing the vessel, (Since squaresails have limited capabilities in this regard.) plus helps her when going closer to the wind. Perhaps a spritsail would help make the bowsprit less bare too.

If you really wanted increased realism, I would suggest dividing the masts in three parts: Lower masts, topmasts and topgallant masts - so basically, your masts should be divided once more at the platforms (tops) just above the lowest yard arms.(Basicly like your bowsprit) Of course, I would also suggest adding sails, and I will still maintain that even paper sails can add a lot. Alternatively, furled up sails would work well too, and should reasonably easy to implement.

My main concern with your rigging is the lack of tautness of the standing rigging. I think that working on getting tauter rigging would move you alot forward, as it gives you a better understanding of how the rigging actually works, looks better, and makes the whole thing more sturdy. You would need something to hold down the bowsprit (look up dolphin striker on wikipedia, for instance), to counteract the tension of the forestay. Generally, building up the tension mast by mast and spar by spar can be complex, but I find it strangely satisfying when it all stands taut and stable!

Hull:

Her overall hull shape is looking good, especially the lower deck. It seems like this could carried over to the top deck a bit better, as it seems flat in comparison. Typically, the curvature would increase as you go higher up the vessel. The tumblehome is very well-executed too.

I am also thinking it would be more accurate if the guns were placed on the upmost closed deck, rather than on the lower deck as now. It does upset the balance of the vessel abit, but also gives her longer range and easier handling of the guns, while putting the heavy cargo lower and better protected in the vessel.

The cabin is very nice, and I like the protruding windows at the end of the row of guns. The backwards sloping stern is great too, and I like the ornamental details you have included. And I like how it overhangs the rudder.

Rating:

As to her rating, I would rate this a WR, as she is a sort of compromise. She has a lot of guns for a tradeship - and with many guns comes compromises as a tradeship. First of all, they take up space and weight that must be deducted from the cargo capacity. Secondly, it takes a large crew to operate all these guns, which again takes up more space and provisions, and makes it a more expensive vessel to operate. So, given her size, she has a sizeable complement of guns, and thus crew, and must compromise on cargo.

This of course all depends on the look of the new classes, but this is a multipurpose vessel to me.

I think that was all I wanted to say for now. Very nice indiaman, and well done overall - looking forward to more from you.

Thanks!

Rigging:

I'll try to add a spankersail (or the spars for it at least) once I have time to build again. The mistake with the masts (I guess this only counts for the fore- and main mast as the mizzen mast is quite a bit shorter and only has one platform on it) is way more difficult to fix (and I did it again on my frigate, you were literally 5 minutes late with this comment - it was just to late to fix it at the point I read this comment), so I'll keep it this way for now. I'll see about sails, everyone seems to want those... The tautness does annoy me too, but I always end up destabilising another part of the rigging while stabilising another, so I tend to end up with a compromise like this one. For the Bowsprit, I was actually thinking about that, but somehow forgot about it further down the line. I might still change it once I have time again.

Hull:

I think a bit more curvature would definitely help, but isn't really possible on a prefab, at least not with the default midsections. It might be possible with custom midsections though.

The guns - I think those were basically the first thing I placed and never really considered moving up a deck, and I'll definitely not change it on this one;) But your idea does make sense, and I think you missed the point of weather - while this isn't a ship of the line, it still has its gunports on the lower deck and will most likely not be able to defend itself that well during bad weather unlike some frigates which would have their guns higher up. Thanks for your compliments on the Stern, I'm glad you like it:D

Rating:

For that I was thinking both of real indiamen - which were well armed most of the time - and the way the classes currently go. As of now, a trade vessel seems to have a gun rating 2 lower than its class level (5T - G:3; 4T2 - G:2, 3T1 - G:1, 2T - G: 0), so this one would be a fit for a class 8T with its 24 guns. If you look at real indiaman (for example the list on wikipedia, most of those were well armed too - and those in the range of a bit over 40 meters (this one is 120 studs long, at slightly under 3 studs a meter thats slightly over 40m) often had 26 guns+ (at least those where the armament is mentioned). And Indiaman seem to be a typical trade ship of the time.

Thanks for your comment again, and same here - I want to see more ships for these seas!

[Bregir]

Gald the feedback (and praise) was useful!

Just a few comments:

1) Tautness: Well, that was exactly my point - if you can't make it taut, you are doing something wrong. I really like the challenge of stringing it all up in the right order, to make it stand correctly. Take a look at the Otter or the Athena - I used slightly different methods for making the bowsprit and the hull the origin of the tension, and it just stands better. It is not necessarily historically correct, and I am certain other, more experienced shipbuilders have better solutions, but it works!

2) Curvature: I think the current curvature is great. My comment was related to the fact that it seems to be evening out a bit as we go up the hull-levels, where historically, it should be getting more pronounced as we move to the higher decks.

3) Rating: I agree, she is very much the indiaman. But that is my exact point - Indiamen were not designated traders, but a compromise in themselves, with added guns for protection. For their size, they didn't have the largest possible cargo hold. Instead, many of them sacrificed some of that for a considerable armament. Of course, the line is a bit blurry: Some of them carried many guns, some fewer, but I think yours belong in the former catagory, and would hold herself against a considerable enemy. Therefore, I maintain that as a well-armed indiaman, she will be most fitting for a WR, at least in the vision of the new classes I have in my head.

Obviously, there will be some leeway, and it all depends on the new classes, so it really is speculation I just do not really see how she could be anymore armed without turning into a full warship. There seems to be no room for a WR in between.

[Legostone]

Gald the feedback (and praise) was useful!

Just a few comments:

1) Tautness: Well, that was exactly my point - if you can't make it taut, you are doing something wrong. I really like the challenge of stringing it all up in the right order, to make it stand correctly. Take a look at the Otter or the Athena - I used slightly different methods for making the bowsprit and the hull the origin of the tension, and it just stands better. It is not necessarily historically correct, and I am certain other, more experienced shipbuilders have better solutions, but it works!

2) Curvature: I think the current curvature is great. My comment was related to the fact that it seems to be evening out a bit as we go up the hull-levels, where historically, it should be getting more pronounced as we move to the higher decks.

3) Rating: I agree, she is very much the indiaman. But that is my exact point - Indiamen were not designated traders, but a compromise in themselves, with added guns for protection. For their size, they didn't have the largest possible cargo hold. Instead, many of them sacrificed some of that for a considerable armament. Of course, the line is a bit blurry: Some of them carried many guns, some fewer, but I think yours belong in the former catagory, and would hold herself against a considerable enemy. Therefore, I maintain that as a well-armed indiaman, she will be most fitting for a WR, at least in the vision of the new classes I have in my head.

Obviously, there will be some leeway, and it all depends on the new classes, so it really is speculation I just do not really see how she could be anymore armed without turning into a full warship. There seems to be no room for a WR in between.

Well, there is alot of space for more guns on the upper deck, I'm sure that I could squeeze another 8 guns on there without it looking to odd... But I've always felt like WR classes were somewhat inconvenient in their pricing(to expensive for their cargo hold, to expensive to serve as a defending ship with their armarment). Also, their is not a single gunport on the second deck - if I really wanted I could make this vessel be about as well armed as a Margot-class ship of the line (who thought of that? Thats the name for the two ships of the line on the ship index;))

Short: if I would fit more guns on the upper deck I could get maybe 8 more guns on, for a WR rating, if I would also fill the second deck with guns this could easily be a warship with over 50 guns(22+20+10). But we'll have to see how this goes anyways.

[Bregir]

For me, if this gets any more guns, it would be a warship. It is too small to be a threedecker, so the additional 8 guns you are talking about would be warship armament, and would make her useless as a cargoship, as there would be no room for cargo!

Well, that is my opinion. And I think the fact that you don't really like the WR stats is a pretty bad excuse!

But let us wait until we see the new classes!

[Captain Dee]

Beautiful ship. The overall form is really nice and the stern especially looks great. White over brown has never appealed to me, but it looks nice here with the black, tan, and red accents. The rigging is pretty good even without sails. The row of gunports seems pretty low, but the explanation seems reasonable enough. Overall she's a fine vessel. Good work.