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EDIT: After just over ten months of development the project is finished. See the last post for more details.
Instructions can be bought on my site

 

Hi,

I have started the development of my next (and probably my final) supercar, the new Aston Martin DB11. Here is a picture of the original car:

Aston-Martin-DB-11-1024x768.jpg

I want to use the new rims of the Porsche, so that is basically determining the scale of this model: 712/80.4 = 1 : 8.85

I have started by trying to design the shell of the car first. Starting with the bonnet:

26802633461_fe464fb153_b.jpg

As you can see the bonnet hinges at the front and wraps around the headlights that won't tilt with the bonnet:

26265971753_c7033ac2b1_b.jpg

Features I'd like to include in the model (and of which I have the basic design in my head):

- independent suspension (double wishbone on the front, multilink in the rear)

- realistic steering geometry (ackermann, kingpin inclination, positive camber)

- 8 speed sequential gearbox operated by paddleshifters on the steering column

- a V12 engine (which, as you can see, still fits under the bonnet)

- opening doors, hood & bonnet

One feature I really would like to add is working diskbrakes. I have a working concept for both front & rear wheels, but that was based on the assumption that I would be able to put an axle through the middle of the Porsche rims. However it turns out that it is not possible to put an axle all the way through :sceptic: . So I have to go back to the drawing board on these... And if I am forced to use the lego hubs I am not sure that I will be able to include both diskbrakes and realistic steering geometry...

What is you opinion? Would you prefer working diskbrakes over steering geometry or the other way around?

Are there any other features that you would like to see included? (given the scale it should be possible to cram more functions in it, but I haven't really found any other interesting features)

Any other comments, questions and especially constructive criticism is much appreciated.

Edited by Jeroen Ottens

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You managed to get the shape really well!

In my opinion brakes are something more interesting than necessary, so I think it could be better to include them.

What do you mean by "next and final supercar"?

(I hope it means Ultimate not last)

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(If I were to build this) I would wait until I had the orange wheel arches and curved panels for the 42056. I think the body would build itself with the new parts and it would be orange.

I would prefer steering over brakes. The reat of the chassis sounds perfect.

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I would opt for steering geometry. You can always add a park gear to the transmission or a parking brake on the driveline if you want to keep it from rolling.

I like the white. The wheel arches from the Porsche might be a bit big for this.

Nice use of the propeller blades.

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Looks nice. Just a little hind feom the car enthusiast inside me: you don't want positive camber. It reduces the amount of g you can pull in corners. Negativ camber is find. Maybe you mean caster as it lesds to more stability in handling.

Camber is simply speaken to which side (inside or outside) leans the wheel. Positiv camber is to the outside and only used in oval racing.

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Looks nice. Just a little hind feom the car enthusiast inside me: you don't want positive camber. It reduces the amount of g you can pull in corners. Negativ camber is find. Maybe you mean caster as it lesds to more stability in handling.

Camber is simply speaken to which side (inside or outside) leans the wheel. Positiv camber is to the outside and only used in oval racing.

My bad, you are right, I meant positive caster. Camber is 0 in mid suspension, but the wheels will slightly tilt when moving up and down (topside moves inwards when moving up & down), however this effect is negligible to the play in the suspension.

EDIT: Camber is 0 at all suspension states. I have a kingpin inclination, but the wishbones have equal length, so the camber doesn't change when traveling up & down.

I would opt for steering geometry. You can always add a park gear to the transmission or a parking brake on the driveline if you want to keep it from rolling.

I like the white. The wheel arches from the Porsche might be a bit big for this.

Nice use of the propeller blades.

thx. I am planning on buying the Porsche, but I agree that I am not sure that the wheelarches will fit on this model. If they do, that also seals the fate of the colour, if not, there are still many options... I'll try to design it such that most options stay open (allthough red will be expensive with all the #3 connectors in the bonnet already, and orange will be difficult without the #5 & #6 panels availablility)

Edited by Jeroen Ottens

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Looks nice. Just a little hind feom the car enthusiast inside me: you don't want positive camber. It reduces the amount of g you can pull in corners. Negativ camber is find. Maybe you mean caster as it lesds to more stability in handling.

Camber is simply speaken to which side (inside or outside) leans the wheel. Positiv camber is to the outside and only used in oval racing.

Indeed, I wouldn't want positive camber on a supercar. However, maybe Jeroen means progressive camber - also known as - active camber. This is when negative camber is gradually introduced when the suspension is compressed (and positive camber when the suspension is released). Active camber keeps the wheels flat on the ground in turns. This maybe obtained by using a shorter upper wishbone, which is convenient when you also want kingpin inclination. But this has probably already been incorparated in the build as it is now.u

EDIT: Seems like Jeroen already replied to the camber issue.

Edited by Didumos69

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You managed to get the shape really well!

In my opinion brakes are something more interesting than necessary, so I think it could be better to include them.

What do you mean by "next and final supercar"?

(I hope it means Ultimate not last)

This is my fourth supercar that I built. In all my builds I try to innovate technically (RC+real life shape in the Alfa, sculpted body + scissor doors + modular design in the Mistress, 4D+N+R gearbox in the Hommage and now the 8D+N+R gearbox + potentially diskbrakes in the DB11), but as far as supercars go, that is about it. The only reason for me to do a new supercar after this one would be a convertible. But those rooftop folding mechanisms are so intricate & delicate in real life that I have no clue yet how to replicate that.

A break from the mold keeps the mind fresh, so at some point I am sure I wil be grabbed by some other vehicle and be making that (I still hope the SW franchise will cook up some new iconic models).

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Isn't the fake engine still too big for that scale? I think custom made V12 would fit it better. How big is the gearbox? Will it be possible to add PF?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

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Isn't the fake engine still too big for that scale? I think custom made V12 would fit it better. How big is the gearbox? Will it be possible to add PF?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

The engine is too big for the scale, but I will keep it like that. It's one of the many rules I put unto myself when building MOCs... :hmpf_bad:

The gearbox doesn't have the definitive size yet. It will depend on the geometry around the rearaxle. Those differentials are still huge at this scale, so I either have to split the gearbox up so that it fits on both sides of diff, or do something clever with spreading it sideways to fit it under the passenger seats, or behind the diff under the trunk.

Adding PF for driving is not an option for me at this scale. It either is slow, or will bring so much stress that the lego will break. I could make the brakes (if I figure something out for that) PF controlled pneumatics, but somehow that feels overcomplicated...

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Having PF at that scale isn't a problem - look at Sheepo supercars. I know that model will be restricted by the size of the gearbox, but probably removing it and adding PF instead should do the trick. Also changing fake engine to custom, smaller one will give the place for steering motor.

I love Aston design and I'd liketo have an RC one.

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Features I'd like to include in the model (and of which I have the basic design in my head):

- independent suspension (double wishbone on the front, multilink in the rear)

- realistic steering geometry (ackermann, kingpin inclination, positive camber)

- 8 speed sequential gearbox operated by paddleshifters on the steering column

- a V12 engine (which, as you can see, still fits under the bonnet)

- opening doors, hood & bonnet

You are setting the bar quite high with all the features you have in mind. But if the way you captured the lines of the car will turn out to be a presage for the rest, then this will work out just fine too. :wink:

One feature I really would like to add is working diskbrakes. I have a working concept for both front & rear wheels, but that was based on the assumption that I would be able to put an axle through the middle of the Porsche rims. However it turns out that it is not possible to put an axle all the way through :sceptic: . So I have to go back to the drawing board on these... And if I am forced to use the lego hubs I am not sure that I will be able to include both diskbrakes and realistic steering geometry...

What is you opinion? Would you prefer working diskbrakes over steering geometry or the other way around?

I would opt for steering geometry rather than disc brakes, but that's a matter of personal preference. But if the axle doesn't run through the rim entirely, then I think you will have to attach the rims to 3 pins (lego hub, 2 belt wheels or similar) to secure the rim properly. I'm affraid attaching the rim only to the axle will allow the rim to slide off the axle quite easily - or the new rims must fit very tightly. Now how do you plan to get the brakes around the discs if the rims need to be secured with pins?

Edited by Didumos69

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Even though I am not a huge fan of Technic/panel build models you have for sure captured the shapes of that bonnet just perfect! Really looking forward to see if finished!!! :thumbup::wub:

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I am totaly agree with Ingmar.

Great work so far Jeroen :thumbup::wub:

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Nice lines so far. Personally, I'd prefer brakes over realistic geometry, because you'd still have suspension, and then have an additional mechanism besides. I don't remember if the DB11 has an 8 speed gearbox, but it might. One with reverse would be enormus, as you'd have 5 shift rings, and doing it sequential could be a pain. But, if implemented well, would be amazing.

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Do you plan to add 5L liftarms on the two center soft axles on the bonnet to make it more 'closed'? Also will the doors open slightly upwards?

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Good start.

A couple of ideas I had for my own supercar someday in random order:

-Front V12 engine supercar (Aston Martin as main inspiration, big fan of those cars)

-Paddle gearbox

-Working brakes

-Functional KERS (rough idea with pull back motors)

-Headlights that turn with steering (is this still a thing?)

-Working airconditioning

-adjustable ride height

-different steering modes (thanks Claas)

-rear spoiler height linked to gearbox (since I can't fake 200km/h with Lego, decided to just link it to the most likely gear you'll be in at 200km/h)

And probably some other features I came up with that I forgot at the moment. List obviously not based on actual DB11 features.

Have fun with any or none of them :grin:

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Nice lines so far. Personally, I'd prefer brakes over realistic geometry, because you'd still have suspension, and then have an additional mechanism besides. I don't remember if the DB11 has an 8 speed gearbox, but it might. One with reverse would be enormus, as you'd have 5 shift rings, and doing it sequential could be a pain. But, if implemented well, would be amazing.

Actually I have an idea that will require only 4 driving rings, of which one is used for DNR switch (like in my Hommage) and the other three for the 8 speeds.

Good start.

A couple of ideas I had for my own supercar someday in random order:

-Front V12 engine supercar (Aston Martin as main inspiration, big fan of those cars)

-Paddle gearbox

-Working brakes

-Functional KERS (rough idea with pull back motors)

-Headlights that turn with steering (is this still a thing?)

-Working airconditioning

-adjustable ride height

-different steering modes (thanks Claas)

-rear spoiler height linked to gearbox (since I can't fake 200km/h with Lego, decided to just link it to the most likely gear you'll be in at 200km/h)

And probably some other features I came up with that I forgot at the moment. List obviously not based on actual DB11 features.

Have fun with any or none of them :grin:

The turnable headlights sound like fun... And maybe even possible given the space

The rear spoiler is tucked inside the trunklid, I have troubles enough as it is to make the lines of the backside work, adding a spoiler is most likely sacrificed for looks...

AFAIK the DB11 has only 2 wheel steering (and designing a steered, driven & diskbraked rearwheel suspension with the existing wheel connector pieces that fits within the deep Porsche rim is very, very daunting)

Do you plan to add 5L liftarms on the two center soft axles on the bonnet to make it more 'closed'? Also will the doors open slightly upwards?

No I will not add 5L liftarms. The middle flexaxles taper slightly outward from 4 to 5 studs, so that will not work. And it is against one of my many rules: Do not make a curved surface with liftarms over flexaxles

Don't know about the doors yet. They are massively long (22 studs I think), which makes the pivot point quite stressed by the momentum gravity is putting on it. Adding a tilt to the pivot can help compensating the sag. And if the real car has slightly upwards tilting doors I will definitely consider this.

Edited by Jeroen Ottens

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You have a very nice looking beginning to what I am sure will be a great end result..!

And it is against one of my many rules: Do not make a curved surface with liftarms over flexaxles

Same here.. :thumbup:

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If this car is supposed to be released right after the Porsche, you have a good chance then having already built the first car MOC with the new wheels and in orange color (?) :thumbup: ! I´m really curious about your sequential 8 - speed gearbox and its shifting mechanism!

quote: What is you opinion? Would you prefer working diskbrakes over steering geometry or the other way around?

Are there any other features that you would like to see included? unquote

I would prefer working functions as discbrakes over so called steering geometry or other fancy inclinations. But who knows - maybe you´ll be able to implement both at this scale? Don´t know which other features would be preferable..., maybe a working sound system :grin: (joke).

Regarding the new fenders I think the same - you don´t know if they fit on every car, especially the front.

Hopefully this is not your last supercar MOC, even if I agree that the spectrum of possible functions and innovations in manual supercars let´s say are getting close to "exhausted", especially with the 42056. On the other hand, after a break you probably will start something new again having fresh ideas :wink: . And what I like most at our hobby is that everybody can create something unique setting rules to him or herself and follow them consistently (or not) .

Edited by brunojj1

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Actually I have an idea that will require only 4 driving rings, of which one is used for DNR switch (like in my Hommage) and the other three for the 8 speeds.

So, basically,you're almost cheating, and having a 4 speed gearbox with a 2 speed splitter?

Also, looking at the front, the Porsche fenders look completly wrong. They'd wreck the amazing lines you have going. I almost don't get why Lego introduced those pieces, or why people are so excited about them. But, I'm not going to derail the thread with that.

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So, basically,you're almost cheating, and having a 4 speed gearbox with a 2 speed splitter?

Also, looking at the front, the Porsche fenders look completly wrong. They'd wreck the amazing lines you have going. I almost don't get why Lego introduced those pieces, or why people are so excited about them. But, I'm not going to derail the thread with that.

No cheating my friend :classic: , it will be a true 8 speed sequential operated by paddles. It will take 7 pulls on the paddle to switch from 1 to 8. There is a second lever that is used to switch between D+N+R (very similar to the Porsche setup). In the Hommage I did not use paddleshifters and combined both switches into one gearshifter which can move like a joystick. Moving left to right switches between D+N+R, whilst moving forward & backward (which is only possible in the D postion) will switch the gear up or down. In the DB11 these two functions will be separated switches. One paddle for gearing up, one paddle for gearing down and a separate switch to switch between D+N+R.

Obviously the R has only one gearratio (and to go slightly off-topic I wonder whether the Porsche has that as well).

I totally agree that the Porsche fenders can't be used at the front. I don't know about the back though. There they might be useable.Once get hold of them I will start experimenting.

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Just a personal opinion, but an Aston Martin in orange makes baby Jesus cry. Too flashy colour for a classy car. I'd keep it white even if the Porsche panel would work at the rear.

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Jeroen you asked for further features. Well here is one which i miss in the forthcoming Porsche: 4 wheel steering but in a smart way:

at low-speed, the rear wheels steers in the opposite direction to that of the front wheels

at high-speed, the rear wheels steers in the same direction to that of the front wheels

What so you think? This would be unique in a supercar because old 8880 has only the former variant

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