[2016 Digital Design Contest] - Rules, prizes and questions

[syclone]

Wait,10 MODELS not 10 SETS?!?!

That really is a problem, in my theme every set has at least 3 cars...

[Classicsmiley]

For many of us, we're thinking in terms of packaged product, which is why sets vs. models is even an issue. I think it also becomes more apparent when people are building at a smaller scale. If one of us were to build a set like http://brickset.com/sets/8135-1/Bridge-Chase, we would have already used up 7 or 8 models, depending on how you count the bridge. When you add the other Tiny Turbos sets from 2007, you end up with over 20 models, even though there were only 7 retail sets.

Just food for thought.

[DraikNova]

Yeah, that's a major problem. I mean, 10 models is like 3-4 sets, which is far too small to give a good idea of what a theme is supposed to look like. I mean, Nexo Knights has like six separate design aesthetics (weapon vehicles, castle vehicles, two different kinds of monsters (black/orange and red/black), the generic brown rock vehicles/monsters and Jestro's split theme). Try fitting all of those in 4 sets, nevermind providing good examples of each while staying within a realistic price range for a set. That's impossible.

Edited April 22, 2016 by DraikNova

[CM4Sci]

In that case is the Hover Racers one disqualified? I think he is proposing that each of the 5 racers comes with a bit of track and more. That's more than 10 models. This is ridiculous

[Actor Builder]

I, for one, am cool with the ten model rule.

If that's what the rule originally was, I see no reason for it to be changed.

[Vodoo]

Hello.

Ten sets seems logical to me. The model rule will lead to big trouble. For example: I have a small truck with a trailer. I show the trailer unattached to the truck, so you can see, that it can be seperated? One or two models?

I have two small buildings on seperated baseplates. You can put the plates together and have 1 big plate (=model) with two buildings. I only show the plates seperated as a playing-feature...

If I build two houses, these are two models. If I put them on one baseplate - is it one model?

The third entry shows us small cars on groundplates? Two models or one scenery-model? The scenery is important, so I would think one model. But if I have a small house and a car in front of it, it would be judged like two models. What if I put both on one groundplate...?

You wanted us to create a theme. Lego creates themes. They use up to 10 sets with up to 4000 pieces, but some sets contain of lots of submodels - like the Hoth base for example.

Personally I decided to build a theme like lego would do it. I have a small 7€ set, same sets for 20€ or more, two bigger sets... If you look at the lego police, they create play-sets. A house, where the smugglers live, their car, a police helicopter... Why is the intention of this contest to create themes like lego would do - your own words, see the parts discussion - but when we do it, we get penelized. If someone builds on megaset with 60 cars for 1500,- €, this wouldn't be a well thought theme in my opinion. But to handle this, there will be the judging periode. If people like this megaset, the will vote for it. If they like the realistic line, the will vote for the smaller, more Lego-like sets...

If you wanna see, how good we create lego-themes, please let us design the themes like lego would do it. I think, its disappointing, to show you a house and say: "This is the idea of a new house. Think about a giant tree and a red car. This is my postoffice. There should be a van in front of it, but I cannot show you the set, I only show you the idea of a half build set..."

And finally: I found this on bricklink, the website, which is also our reference for part-color-kombinations.

This is what lego says what a model is:

http://alpha.brickli...Space]#T=S&O={}

LEGO Super Model, includings two subsets with one spaceship, one spacecar and a small spacestation.

Also, please search on bricklink set 66359-1: Technic Super Set 4 in 1... It is sorted as: Catalog:Sets:Technic:Model:

Lego itselfs (or bricklink, which is our reference) defines: model = set

I think, it would be a good decision, if we talk about 10 sets, which will be nice Lego theme. With your definition, the Doctor Who set or the birds-set 21301 would be a theme, but the two lego sets 60098 and 60052 would not show a lego cargo train theme in a legal way...

Edited April 23, 2016 by Vodoo

[marco9999]

My question is about a specific part but could be considered in general.

According to Bricklink, part 2626 (Stem Brick 6 x 6) was released in light grey before 2002 but never in light bluish grey, and light grey does not exist anymore in new sets.

If I want to use it and I already run out the 5 tolerated wrong comboes what should I do?

1) Use it in light bluish grey because when Lego re-releases old sets they will use light bluish grey (it already happened)

2) Use it in light grey but so I have to change all grey parts for obvious aesthetical reasons.

3) Do not use it or sacrifice another combo.

Thanks for your attention.

Edited April 23, 2016 by marco9999

[Superkalle]

Important rule clarification/addendum about definition of models vs. sets

We had an internal discussion about the model/set definition and realized that maybe it wasn't 100% clear. So we decided to interpret the rules a bit more generously (like some of you did). After all it is a contest that is supposed to be fun and where you are supposed to be able to express your theme concept. This now means so you can go ahead and interpret sets as "models", which would be a bit more like LEGO does.

But use sound judgement. A set with 20 "models" in it, and then 10 of those sets, adding up to 200 small models will be too many. Also, note that there is still the max 5000 brick rule for all your models/sets.

We hope this won't feel unfair to those that has already posted their entries. And you can naturally add/modify your entry all the way up until the last day.

[DraikNova]

Thank you!

[syclone]

Many thanks for the update!

[Vodoo]

Thank you very much! :-)

[Classicsmiley]

Thank you! This change will give us the flexibility to more fully develop our themes.

[nine09nueve]

The rules stated 10 models - which was clear from the beginning. It seems wrong to change the rules with 7 days to go before the end of the contest because of... what? Because some entrants chose to disregard the rules completely - or failed to read them properly? (which I was guilty of myself but clarified them before I started to submit)

People might seem to feel that they are "limited" but surely that's part of the skill in choosing what to include and what not to include? Otherwise a set can be padded with extra models... extra variations of builds etc (TLG is guilty of this at times... just how many mini catapults do we "need" in LOTR sets?)

With the rule change we can now push the boundaries of quantity not quality... please someone explain to me what's wrong with... 1) pick/design your theme 2) choose the best 10 models in your range that really capture the essence/spirit of what you are trying to achieve with your theme?

Edited April 23, 2016 by nine09nueve

[___]

Actually, if it were me, now as the number of participants is growing and having overview of all entries becomes harder and harder, I would even make the rule like: you are allowed to post only one picture that would contain as many models/sets of your own theme as you like!

Reasons would be:

• "orientation" in respective "themes" would be much more better (one should look only at one picture per theme)
  
• there would be no fight about "too little models/sets allowed" or "too much models/sets allowed"
  
• normal logic would prevent participants having too many models/sets on such picture cos the more he puts inside the less it would be "readable"
  

Edited April 23, 2016 by bublible

[nine09nueve]

Actually, if it were me, now as the number of participants is growing, I would even make the rule like: you are allowed to post only one picture that would contain as many models/sets of your own theme as you like!

But that's the whole point... as the participants grows... and 75% of the way through the contest... the rules shouldn't change in my opinion. This isn't a clarification/addendum - its a rule change.

"Your entry should consist of at least 3 models and a maximum of 10 (Update April 23: you can interpret 10 models as 10 sets)."

reads pretty differently to...

"Your entry should consist of at least 3 sets and a maximum of 10."

[___]

But that's the whole point... as the participants grows... and 75% of the way through the contest... the rules shouldn't change in my opinion. This isn't a clarification/addendum - its a rule change.

"Your entry should consist of at least 3 models and a maximum of 10 (Update April 23: you can interpret 10 models as 10 sets)."

reads pretty differently to...

"Your entry should consist of at least 3 sets and a maximum of 10."

Yea, in fact I agree with you on this: I too think it is not quite OK for those of us who had to live with those previous "harder" rules (although me personally had no probs with that, rather other way around: I was suggesting even tougher rules like only real participant's own ideas would be allowed and considered as new theme, not LEGO brick interpretations of already existing stuff...but I soon realize in such case there would be only like 2-3 participants, most probably, haha - I simply took it much more serious than it actually is ) + also agree on the point that range 3-10 was absolutely fine - it is just that as for myself (my entries) it does not mean anything as I post mine almost immediately like a few hours after the contest started and since then let them as they were (I only updated their rendering quality during next 2 days + as I play more with the rendering script I may update them once more a bit as now they do look to me a bit "dark")...

Edited April 23, 2016 by bublible

[legolijntje]

The rules stated 10 models - which was clear from the beginning. It seems wrong to change the rules with 7 days to go before the end of the contest because of... what? Because some entrants chose to disregard the rules completely - or failed to read them properly? (which I was guilty of myself but clarified them before I started to submit)

People might seem to feel that they are "limited" but surely that's part of the skill in choosing what to include and what not to include? Otherwise a set can be padded with extra models... extra variations of builds etc (TLG is guilty of this at times... just how many mini catapults do we "need" in LOTR sets?)

With the rule change we can now push the boundaries of quantity not quality... please someone explain to me what's wrong with... 1) pick/design your theme 2) choose the best 10 models in your range that really capture the essence/spirit of what you are trying to achieve with your theme?

Well, we thought that it was clear from the beginning, but it wasn't apparently. We (Superkalle and me) never considered the fact that the 2 words '10 models' could be interpreted differently. We didn't change the rules, we just had to chose 1 interpretation as the definitive one. If you feel you're at a disadvantage (by the rule 'change'), I'm sorry. We can't make everyone happy, even though we'd like to very much

I understand your concerns about quantity vs quality. When setting up the contest, we were really trying to make the contest as 'free' as possible, while maintaining a certain limit to make it fair for everyone and keep the quality as top priority. That's also why there is the 10 model limit (which in hindsight could have been formulated better) and the parts limit. And so far, it seems to be working quite well with a lot of very nice entries.

[nine09nueve]

Well, we thought that it was clear from the beginning, but it wasn't apparently. We (Superkalle and me) never considered the fact that the 2 words '10 models' could be interpreted differently.

I think that's the point... models != sets (can't find the "does not equal symbol) so I'm not surprised you both never considered that the words could be interpreted differently as it's pretty clear :D

If you feel you're at a disadvantage (by the rule 'change'), I'm sorry. We can't make everyone happy, even though we'd like to very much

I wouldn't worry about wanting to make everyone happy though - that isn't ever gonna happen! :D

And I don't feel that I've been disadvantaged by this "tweak" shall we say... No... I'm at a disadvantage because I can't get my head around Bluerender setup on my Mac *rofl*

[___]

The models have to be physically buildable, so no floating bricks and such.

I understood this rule like that we cannot make our renders with THINGS THAT FLY (that is something that would not be possible with real bricks) only if we find some way around that would be also possible with real bricks, like lets say, put our "flying" models on some stand - do I understand this right, or is it really meant just for some loose bricks hanging in the air? Cos I see some participants are using flying machines in the air hanging "just like that"

Edited April 24, 2016 by bublible

[Calabar]

I understood this rule like that we cannot make our renders with THINGS THAT FLY (that is something that would not be possible with real bricks) only if we find some way around that would be also possible with real bricks, like lets say, put our "flying" models on some stand ...

I thought that the rules was intended to avoid models where parts are not adequately connected so that the model is not buildable with real bricks (in digital LEGO you can even build an unconnected model using tiles only, it will stand as digital model but not if built in real bricks).

An helicopter flying in the air is not a problem, obviously the model in real bricks will not truly fly but, composing a scene, it is not so strange to see a flying vehicle in the air.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Calabar

[___]

I thought that the rules was intended to avoid models where parts are not adequately connected so that the model is not buildable with real bricks (in digital LEGO you can even build an unconnected model using tiles only, it will stand as digital model but not if built in real bricks).

An helicopter flying in the air is not a problem, obviously the model in real bricks will not truly fly but, composing a scene, it is not so strange to see a flying vehicle in the air.

Well, Calabar, to me it was not clear at all like that as there was really strong accent on "possible with real bricks" and "flying in the air (just like that)" is, of course, not possible with real bricks without some sort of support/stand, that is the reason I am asking cos I was "pushed" by this unclear statement to use trans stands instead of much pleasant scene with really flying "objects" in the air, if you understand me.

That being said: I am not against it - rather the other way around, BUT I am just saying I am quite surprised, that is all.

Edited April 24, 2016 by bublible

[Calabar]

The one above is my interpretation of the rule.

Look at this image: it is the cover of a LEGO official set. The copter is "on the air", and no stand is provided in the set. A thing like this is not a problem, IMHO.

Imagine instead to a "ladder to the sky" set, where bricks are placed as steps floating in the air. Suggestive, but impossible to realize in real bricks without a proper support. But in digital models it is possible. This is the case that the rule want to avoid.

Else thing about a "magnetic engine" (maybe in a robot or a starship model), where a floating sphere is suspended in the middle of a circle. Perfectly feasible in digital LEGO, but in a real model the sphere will not stay in the middle of the circle, more likely you will see it rolling down, with you that will chase it before it is lost under some immovable old wardrobe. That's another case to avoid.

The copter that flies is simply something to make the presentation of the set more attractive, the ladder in the sky or the magnetic engine are something you can't build in real bricks, instead.

[___]

The one above is my interpretation of the rule.

Look at this image: it is the cover of a LEGO official set. The copter is "on the air", and no stand is provided in the set. A thing like this is not a problem, IMHO.

Imagine instead to a "ladder to the sky" set, where bricks are placed as steps floating in the air. Suggestive, but impossible to realize in real bricks without a proper support. But in digital models it is possible. This is the case that the rule want to avoid.

Else thing about a "magnetic engine" (maybe in a robot or a starship model), where a floating sphere is suspended in the middle of a circle. Perfectly feasible in digital LEGO, but in a real model the sphere will not stay in the middle of the circle, more likely you will see it rolling down, with you that will chase it before it is lost under some immovable old wardrobe. That's another case to avoid.

The copter that flies is simply something to make the presentation of the set more attractive, the ladder in the sky or the magnetic engine are something you can't build in real bricks, instead.

I am not talking about TLG images, I am talking about not quite clear rules in this contest (just this specific rule)...it is not us making some sense of unclear rules by exploring some TLG official imagery, rather stick to the rule(s) itself, cos in that way I can also find some TLG imagery that is showing loose bricks hanging in the air just like that - does it means that this rule becomes absolete because of that?

All I am saying is that if it was meant to be WHAT WE COULD REALLY ASSEMBLE WITH LEGO BRICKS AND WHAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO ARRANGE WITH THEM OURSELVES then it does not matter what has TLG ever produced in the sense of their own images/boxes/movies etc., so if one want to have some flying objects he needs to put them on some kind of stand.

And as I remember previous debate: all of this should really be taken as REAL LEGO BRICKS BUILD, so the only way around one would be able to do it like that (flying in the air) would be by using things like Photoshop which is not allowed (or at least this is exactly how I interpret rules of this contest - if I am somewhat wrong, please, do correct me).

Edited April 24, 2016 by bublible

[Calabar]

I am not talking about TLG images, I am talking about not quite clear rules in this contest (just this specific rule) ...

Again, the one above is my interpretation of the rule. That mean what I think the rule is meant for.

If you want an official answer, you have to wait Superkalle's and legolijintie's intervention.

The image of the official LEGO set was only an example aimed to help to point out the difference between an artistic license for the presentation of the model and a build technique that is not applicable to real bricks. Both contemplate something "flying", but there is a huge difference.

... so the only way around one would be able to do it like that (flying in the air) would be by using things like Photoshop which is not allowed...

You don't need Photoshop or another image editor, LDD and other digital editors allow to use build techniques that are not applicable in real buildings by themself.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Calabar

[___]

Again, the one above is my interpretation of the rule. That mean what I think the rule is meant for.

If you want an official answer, you have to wait Superkalle's and legolijintie's intervention.

The image of the official LEGO set was only an example aimed to help to point out the difference between an artistic license for the presentation of the model and a build technique that is not applicable to real bricks. Both contemplate something "flying", but there is a huge difference.

Calabar, I understand that it is just your oppinion on that matter, no problem.

Sure, I am waiting for clarification from them but as it is weekend I think they are not here for this moment.

You see, it is actually not that important to me at this point cos I (most probably, but not definitely sure) won't go changing my setup - it is just some other not quite clear rule that I would like to be clarified, maybe for some other new participants that might be in wrong impression of what is being written thus making their contest inputs (possibly) disqualified or in need to overdoing them for that matter (which would be avoidable if the rule was clear enough)...tho as I said earlier if it was clear enough right from the start (you see I thought it is clear but maybe I was wrong, so it is not that clear) I would definitely go with the "flying" option and not stand/support as I have now.