Wardancer

Latest impact of other themes on historic themes

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This topic is way off track. Feel free to start a new discussion, but let's keep this topic for discussion of new parts that can be used for historic/fantasy MOCs.

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4 hours ago, Metanoios91 said:

Question to @danth , @Lord Insanity and all those that still think Lego should stick with the old baseplates: Do you still use Windows 95 or an old Nokia mobile phone by any chance?

Lol, this is such a false equivalence that I'm not going to bother with it.

4 hours ago, 1974 said:

The (modern) 2x4 3001 LEGO brick is +60 years old. Do you want it updated? If not, why?

Good reply!

3 hours ago, Metanoios91 said:

Actually Lego has released around a few hundred updates and variations of that brick over these 60 years already.

Ok, so should Lego stop making the regular bricks then?

3 hours ago, DaleDVM said:

I am sorry.  I just want to note that people are comparing LEGO parts to software and cell phones?  I suppose since LEGO bricks are older than baseplates we should stop using them as well?  I don't discount your opinion, but the logic of this argument is faulty. 

It's crazy right? It's essentially gas lighting.

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Well, you CAN compare LEGO to software .. How are those Mindstorm/NXT bricks rocking on? And all those app controlled (Technic) sets in a few years?

That's right, obsolete like Windows 3.1

However, all the actual LEGO parts in those sets still work in the next +60 years

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Posted (edited)

Those Tree panels in 60307: Wildlife Rescue Camp might be useful for Dark Forest / Forestmen.

Edited by TeriXeri

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10 hours ago, 1974 said:

The trick is to lift the building not grab the baseplate by the edges 

I'm not talking about bending from lifting the set, I'm talking about the corners of the baseplate warping just from the combined stresses of the pieces attached to them (which can happen even if you keep the set on display exactly where you built it to begin with).

It's the same reason that the underside of a standard 16x16 plate has so many extra support structures underneath compared to other standard plates — plates and baseplates that large are prone to deforming from the combined stresses of so many stud connections unless they are carefully reinforced.

10 hours ago, 1974 said:

When I'm talking about baseplates, I don't only mean the plain ones, but also road, space and crater plates. There are really no substitute for those unless you build something yourself. And takes a metric ton of parts. Kids do not have that.

Err… not really, no. Building craters is pretty easy and doesn't take many parts at all, especially with how many round bricks, plates, and tiles there are to choose from these days. And cliffs and mountains can be just as easy to build with only a smallish number of parts if you use BURPs/mountain bricks (which are availabile in many more sets at much more affordable prices than raised baseplates, which only ever appeared in high priced sets, and usually with only one or two per set).

But regardless, LEGO stopped putting raised baseplates in sets a decade ago. And most historic themes never used road baseplates to begin with, except as printed waterways and wagon trails (which hardly ever even lined up correctly from one set to the next). So while I realize we all have our own preferences about what sort of foundations we prefer to build on, there's not much point debating the merits of these sorts of long-retired "special" baseplates in a topic about how current and future parts, sets, and themes might impact historic themes.

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18 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

The lions do not have "saddle cutouts" like the wargs do.  The lions do have 2 studs on top though.  It looks like the body itself is the same as the regular "big cat" mold.  Which makes perfect sense really.  Would be easy enough to hitch them to a chariot or wagon but they would look a little off for a straight up mount due to the lack of saddle compatibility.

I'm reminded of the Mythica promotional image where one of the rides was a winged lion.

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9 hours ago, Metanoios91 said:

You add some valid points that I do not negate. In fact I mentioned your exact technique with plywood in previous posts. But answer me this question: How do you fasten or fixate the baseplates to the plywood? Do you drill through some of them to use screws? Or are they just resting on the wood? Once you lift or transport the display in a car, how do you make sure that the whole baseplate assembly doesn't slide off the plywood in the case of sudden braking or if a friend, who helps you lift the plywood, suddenly slips and one side angles down?

 

I do not attach the baseplates to the plywood at all actually.  This is great because I can change them out or reuse them. This is why the baseplates are so beneficial.  When they move small amounts on the wood they do not catch and separate like plates/bricks do.  I have special racks built in a moving truck specifically for moving my display.  Yes, I own a moving truck solely for moving my LEGO around.  Some people might call me crazy.

The racks have L shaped sides that keep the baseplates from moving off to the left and right.  Forward to back the sections of the display butt up against one another so there is nowhere for them to go.  To be honest gluing the baseplates to the plywood would not help with stability at all.  In the case of an accident or a sudden stop the large structures would just separate from the plates or baseplates anyway and go flying.  I just hope I never get into an accident when moving my LEGO and I drive very carefully.  

I also know I will have plenty of baseplates for myself when TLG stops selling them.  However, I am not just thinking of myself.  I fear future fans will be losing an essential part that can be vital for making large displays more stable.  Eventually baseplates will become really hard to obtain.  

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15 hours ago, Metanoios91 said:

Question to @danth , @Lord Insanity and all those that still think Lego should stick with the old baseplates: Do you still use Windows 95 or an old Nokia mobile phone by any chance?

Did you even read what I wrote?  I specifically stated that regular plates and bricks will crack and break under specific conditions that baseplates will not.  (heavy sections of layout sliding over tables, plywood, floors, etc.)  No where did I suggest LEGO should only stick with baseplates.  However, the smooth underside of baseplates serve an essential function that no other "in-system" part currently can.  If Microsoft never made Windows 98, 7, 8, or 10 then yes I would still be using 95.  :wacko:

In fact as I build roads higher up than flat against the table, I prefer the new road plates to road baseplates.  The newly revealed City Wildlife Rescue sets show them being made in a shade of blue for water.  I can see them being very useful for castle themed layouts.  (Rivers, lakes, shores, etc.)

Imagine that the new road plate system, unlike road baseplates, will be useful to castle builders too.

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Hey guys, this baseplate discussion has gone way off-topic. You are still in the thread regarding Latest impact of other themes on historic themes. It's time to consider dropping it or moving it elsewhere, this is not the appropriate space.

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1 hour ago, Frike said:

Hey guys, this baseplate discussion has gone way off-topic. You are still in the thread regarding Latest impact of other themes on historic themes. It's time to consider dropping it or moving it elsewhere, this is not the appropriate space.

For modern road plates, yes.

However, baseplates ending (in other themes) is an issue for historic builders. The thread is about the impact of other themes, and that is not necessarily only new parts coming but also parts being discontinued, and their effect on historic builds.

Personally, I'd like to see the new road plates coming in tan and dark tan and maybe even green, although the existing ones are a good start. These could be useful for town squares and similar where a flat rather than studded surface is wanted. I prefer regular 16x16 plates for this as they are more customizable, although the number / colour range of these appearing seems to be dropping off too, although this year is a good year for DBG and LBG 16x16 plates.

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On 5/4/2021 at 9:45 AM, BaalTheBuilder said:

Hmm with relatively light changes the new Friends 41683 Riding Stable in the Forest could fit beside the new 3-in-1 castle or inside an expanded moc of it as a castle stable. The blue roof and yellow wall coloring are close enough to that of the castle’s for me. Don’t like that set’s price though for considering that. And you definitely would want some proper horses!

This stable comment might have been buried by the baseplate debate - if anyone tries this out with the new 3-in-1 Castle, please show it off!

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36 minutes ago, BaalTheBuilder said:

This stable comment might have been buried by the baseplate debate - if anyone tries this out with the new 3-in-1 Castle, please show it off!

It certainly could be an interesting build, but that horse stable set doesn't come in cheap at €65. Of course the idea/instructions can always be used as inspiration however.

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21 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

It certainly could be an interesting build, but that horse stable set doesn't come in cheap at €65. Of course the idea/instructions can always be used as inspiration however.

That price would be my barrier too...agree with your thinking

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21 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Those Tree panels in 60307: Wildlife Rescue Camp might be useful for Dark Forest / Forestmen.

I was thinking that as well!  My goal as soon as we move in to our new house, is to make a large all-encompassing forest.  It would be comprised of modified treehouse, forestmen sets, maybe some easter eggs such as Winnie the Pooh and other large tree sets.  I plan on leaving room at the outer edges for castles/villages etc.

1 hour ago, BaalTheBuilder said:

This stable comment might have been buried by the baseplate debate - if anyone tries this out with the new 3-in-1 Castle, please show it off!

When they come out I should be able to try and mock that up (and MOC it up if it turns out good lol)

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There are 2 wall panel with window in white in the 60308: Seaside Police and Fire Mission, or alternatively 2 in 43184: Raya and Sisu Dragon

60808.t1.png

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10 hours ago, MAB said:

Personally, I'd like to see the new road plates coming in tan and dark tan and maybe even green, although the existing ones are a good start.

You're in luck — the new road plates appear in Dark Tan in at least one upcoming City set, 60302, and possibly others that we haven't seen pics of yet (I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them used more widely in the upcoming LEGO City "stunt show" sets as dirt tracks or "demolition derby" style arenas).

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I'm just a single individual, but I don't see how the new road plates (or indeed the vintage baseplates with tracks incorporated into the plate itself) are really all that good for historic themes. I can see the appeal of blue ones for waterways, but the problem the road plates have - in my view - is that they're too smooth. To me, medieval and historical roads are uneven. I want bumpy surfaces, etc. and for my money the classic studs-up approach is the way to go - whether that be on a baseplate or a regular plate

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

I'm just a single individual, but I don't see how the new road plates (or indeed the vintage baseplates with tracks incorporated into the plate itself) are really all that good for historic themes. I can see the appeal of blue ones for waterways, but the problem the road plates have - in my view - is that they're too smooth. To me, medieval and historical roads are uneven. I want bumpy surfaces, etc. and for my money the classic studs-up approach is the way to go - whether that be on a baseplate or a regular plate

I agree the road plates are too shiny for old paths , I wonder why they didn't opt for a matte texture as seen in 8x16 tiles or 8x6 ramps etc, old baseplate roads were never so shiny either.

Blue or Dark Tan works fine as normal or muddy water , might look too shiny for large amounts of dirt/grass however.

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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38 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

You're in luck — the new road plates appear in Dark Tan in at least one upcoming City set, 60302, and possibly others that we haven't seen pics of yet (I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them used more widely in the upcoming LEGO City "stunt show" sets as dirt tracks or "demolition derby" style arenas).

Yeah, thanks, I'd seen the new sets images but haven't had a chance to look closely at them all yet. 

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8 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I agree the road plates are too shiny for old paths , I wonder why they didn't opt for a matte texture as seen in 8x16 tiles or 8x6 ramps etc, old baseplate roads were never so shiny either.

I suspect they wanted them to match the surface finish of the standard tiles and plates used to link them together. I'm not especially bothered by it, but regardless, I agree that for historic uses like dirt or cobblestone roads, studded surfaces will likely be preferable to smooth tiled surfaces most of the time.

Even for surfaces like inclined roads/paths which would have been studless back in the days of raised baseplates, I honestly feel that studded surfaces would usually be preferable, especially since it would allow for more secure attachment points for minifigs and horses.

That's not to say the new road plate system would be useless in historic themes, any more than other large tiles would be — but it probably wouldn't be especially suitable for roads in those contexts.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

I suspect they wanted them to match the surface finish of the standard tiles and plates used to link them together. I'm not especially bothered by it, but regardless, I agree that for historic uses like dirt or cobblestone roads, studded surfaces will likely be preferable to smooth tiled surfaces most of the time.

I agree they currently do match tiles, and that makes sense, and for roads they look fine.

I still think they probably look great as underlayer, like open dirt or grass patches, but then adding some angled/rounded plates on top for texture/shapes, and unlike a 8x16 regular tile, some small plates can be easily added in the middle on top so there's definately a technical benefit (and potentially more colors available when time passes)

I just think using them without a top layer might look a bit strange in a "natural" environment, especially multiple 16x16 with just tiles, depending on lighting also.

Then again, it won't really affect me as I don't have huge terrain layouts but I can see where the shinyness could be a concern in large numbers of road plates in an area if people opt to use a lot of them.

Edited by TeriXeri

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9 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Even for surfaces like inclined roads/paths which would have been studless back in the days of raised baseplates, I honestly feel that studded surfaces would usually be preferable, especially since it would allow for more secure attachment points for minifigs and horses.

It's for this reason that I'd personally be keen to see raised baseplates come back - but with studded ramps. At the moment I can't think of any technique to have studded ramps without some form of hinge mechanism, and it's very hard to do that compactly and have it sit flush with the flat base. But my pet peeve in the raised plates I have is how impossible it is to easily stick figures on the roads without using non-Lego elements such as BluTac. Not strictly castle, but I've had my share of frustrations with the car from Poolside Paradise sliding down the ramp - and that's shallower than the old baseplates were!

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47 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I agree they currently do match tiles, and that makes sense, and for roads they look fine.

I still think they probably look great as underlayer, like open dirt or grass patches, but then adding some angled/rounded plates on top for texture/shapes, and unlike a 8x16 regular tile, some small plates can be easily added in the middle on top so there's definately a technical benefit (and potentially more colors available when time passes) 

This is a good point, actually! Certainly this could be an interesting use for them.

59 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

It's for this reason that I'd personally be keen to see raised baseplates come back - but with studded ramps. At the moment I can't think of any technique to have studded ramps without some form of hinge mechanism, and it's very hard to do that compactly and have it sit flush with the flat base. But my pet peeve in the raised plates I have is how impossible it is to easily stick figures on the roads without using non-Lego elements such as BluTac. Not strictly castle, but I've had my share of frustrations with the car from Poolside Paradise sliding down the ramp - and that's shallower than the old baseplates were!

This wouldn't really be possible with traditional half-thickness baseplates. The vacuum forming technique used for baseplates only really works if the shape can be formed from a flat sheet that is "pulled" vertically onto a single-surface mold — so it wouldn't allow for details or connection points that project horizontally or diagonally from the part's surface.

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3 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

This wouldn't really be possible with traditional half-thickness baseplates. The vacuum forming technique used for baseplates only really works if the shape can be formed from a flat sheet that is "pulled" vertically onto a single-surface mold — so it wouldn't allow for details or connection points that project horizontally or diagonally from the part's surface.

I won't pretend that's not a pity - but I'll take the fascinating new insight into Lego's production process as a trade off!

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According to @Bob De Quatre's review of the Heartlake City School set, the shield pieces that are used (with stickers) for the tragedy and comedy masks in the drama room are glow-in-the-dark! Certainly not a traditional color for shields, but could lend itself to some interesting uses. If nothing else they could make for interesting armaments for the classic glow-in-the-dark ghosts!

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