Latest impact of other themes on historic themes

[Agent Kallus]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Some better pics of summer sets with elements that might have historic applications:

• 41196 The Elvenstar Tree Bat Attack (Dragon wing and jaw recolor, canine head recolor, elemental diamond pieces without printing, leaf pieces in Warm Gold, new stickered shield, new book cover, and of course lots of nice tree building elements)
• 41195 Emily & Noctura's Showdown (Filigree piece in Transparent Fluorescent Green, Cinderella carriage wheels in Titanium Metallic, more of the big Bright Bluish Green mushrooms, canine head in White)
• 70653 Firstbourne (dragonbone sword, dragon sword hilt, a reasonably Western-style dragon)
• 70655 Dragon Pit (this one's been mentioned in the thread already; this is just a better picture)
• 10762 (Castle-patterned book in a cheaper set than the Disney Castle, 4x2x4 conical roof in Dark Red)

I've not seen that Beauty and the beast set before, Cogs-worth's lower brick will be a useful print. 

Though no part in particular the Oni Titan, looks useful as a fantasy parts pack.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Agent Kallus

[Exetrius]

The civilian in brown in the NC Docks set (https://brickset.com/sets/70657-1) looks really useful as a castle peasant.

The Elvenstar Tree Bat Attack is just stunning. @Aanchir summed up all the good stuff, except for more translucent recolours of the vine piece. 

Here are close-ups of the Golden Dragon master and his cool armour and weapons:

by elephantograph, on Flickr

by elephantograph, on Flickr

 

 

 

[BrickJagger]

^ I am so looking forward to seeing some of those molds in future Castle themes. 

[x105Black]

On 4/21/2018 at 3:18 PM, Aanchir said:

You're right about the Tolkien themes and Nexo Knights, but Fantasy Era and Kingdoms were aimed at close to the same age range as other Castle themes and a decidedly lower age range than Ninjago. Like, look at this year's first wave of Ninjago sets:

• ...

By contrast, Kingdoms (excluding <$10 impulse sets and D2C sets) had:

• ...

And Fantasy Era? The age range for many sets tends to be a bit higher than similarly-priced Kingdoms sets, but the overall spread of target ages isn't at Ninjago or Tolkien level:

• ...

I think on some level the fact that you grouped Fantasy Era and Kingdoms with the Tolkien themes in terms of having higher age ranges pretty succinctly illustrates that getting a color scheme or aesthetic AFOLs like doesn't particularly hinge on what the target age range is. The target age range tends to dictate some stuff AFOLs care about, like whether the sets get advanced building techniques or heavy greebling, but not so much color schemes.

For the most part, the colors of the troll faction from Fantasy Era were about as muted as those of the dragon keeper faction from this summer's Ninjago sets. And the Kingdoms baddies and civilians, too, used fairly subdued colors — there were Earth Green and Warm Gold, but those weren't that much brighter than the Olive Green and Bright Orange used on the Dieselnaut. I don't think anybody's trying to make an argument that duller sorts of color schemes like these would no longer be viable in a newer Castle series.

And even among the "good guy" factions, Castle already tends to have a dingier palette than Ninjago. You almost never see Castle sets where bright colors cover most of their surfaces the way they do on many Ninjago buildings and vehicles. If anything, colors like Bright Red and Bright Blue only stand out as much as they do in Castle because most of the sets' surfaces tend to be black or grey!

You've made some good points here.  First, you're right, and I was largely adding in Kingdoms and Fantasy Era because they 'feel' like they are directed to an older audience.  They seem a bit more heavily weighted in the direction of bigger, pricier sets.  But maybe that's just a perception.  The color scheme is the greatest factor, which brings me to your second good point.  That would be the idea that a color scheme of aesthetic that is more mature or appeals more to AFOLs can also work when the sets are targeting a younger age range.

I still feel that the next Castle theme should target the older age ranges targeted by Tolkien, Ninjago, and Nexo Knights, using a color scheme more akin to Tolkien, Kingdoms, and Fantasy Era, and building techniques at the level of complexity of Nexo Knights, Creator Expert, or UCS sets, and including at least one large D2C type set.  That's the sweet spot I hope they aim for.

[zoth33]

Yeah I'm really loving all those new molds for Ninjagos new wave.  The dragon hilt is so cool cant wait to get my hands on it.  Even some of the villains armor and the other new swords from Ninjago will be very usefull.  The dragon bone sword itself is very nice too.  I'm hoping they do a wolf hilt too(great for game of thrones MOC's) and other ideas for it.  That shield is fantastic also.  I love customizing minifigs so all these parts are great.  I hope lego keeps making new weapons and armor for a new castle theme when we get one.  I think if they did what they have done so far with Ninjago and the Elves themes and apply some of the same thinking to a new castle theme it would be great and appeal to many people.  A new castle theme with new plant molds, animal molds, new armor, new weapons, new factions both villains and good guys,even the same old dragon mold would be fine just in different colors than red and black, new colors for castle pieces and new building techniques could go a long way to giving castle the shot in the arm it needs to be more fresh and appeal to more people.  Now is lego willing to go that far with it I don't know but I would love to see it.

[Aanchir]

A video review (not mine, not in English) is up for Firstbourne, and I was curious if anybody here was interested in her! As I've mentioned above, she's pretty much a western-style dragon (i.e. four clawed legs, two wings, non-serpentine body design), and quite a big and imposing one too! Also we now have confirmation that her wings have both a flapping function and the ability to fold open and closed. I feel like she'd fit in beautifully with a Castle layout!

https://youtu.be/eqoBjjYaq7E?t=8m29s

Also Zusammengebaut has pictures of new Bricktober minifigure packs (yes, there actually seem to be new ones this year), including Harry Potter, Ninjago, and Marvel figures. Some of their parts could definitely have historic applications… but of course, might not be worth the trouble of getting your hands on the full pack in the UK or US, unless LEGO announces some other way they're distributing in countries where Toys 'R' Us is going out of business.

The new Harry Potter sets look great! Most historic among them are definitely the two Hogwarts sets we've seen (Hogwarts and the Whomping Willow and Hogwarts Great Hall). Hogwarts looks even more warm, inviting, and livable than usual. Whomping Willow is great for tree parts. Many of the stickers like portraits and tapestries seem versatile enough to be used outside of a Harry Potter context. Dementors also get a new, more minifigure-based (rather than skeleton-based) build, including a recolor of the ghost trail piece from Ninjago/Ghostbusters/Nexo Knights. There are still at least a couple sets that haven't been announced yet so I'm curious what those might be.

[Mr. President]

That dragon is very tempting! I have the one from Red Creatures (31032) and I've been very happy with him; maybe they go together?

Dragon Pit (70655) was the other set from Ninjago's next wave that caught my eye. It seems like it wouldn't require a huge amount of modification to turn into a fort for goblins or barbarians.

[zoth33]

Aanchir I do think the dragon could work in a fantasy setting.  It would actually work well in my lego castle world.  I would love to get my hands on the bricktober figs but will have to see what happens with them.  The new star wars set of snokes throne room has the new skirt piece in red for the praetorian gaurds could be very useful.  And yes the Harry Potter sets have some excellent pieces available and the minifigs will be very useful especially that dementor.  I can't wait for the thestral set to come out so I can use it for a mount for some of my demon warriors.  

[x105Black]

That dragon would be horrible for me, as it would clash with my molded Castle dragons.  I am excited about several other things coming out.  For example, new Batman sets are coming out.  They will have bat emblems in gold, copper, and gunmetal.  These could be great for a Bat faction that uses Fright Knight heraldry.  That's what I intend to use them for.

[zoth33]

Good idea x105Black.  I also might use the Talons for something in my lego world.  

[Aanchir]

One of the builds for this set is a fun throwback… https://www.lego.com/en-us/themes/classic/products/bricks-bricks-bricks-10717

Noticing it even uses Bright Reddish Violet to represent the classic flags. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of this color in historic sets, even just for heraldry or accents in a throne room. It makes a good Tyrian purple.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Aanchir

[AmperZand]

I'm using Blue (pictured below), one of the raptors from the Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom range, as a mount for one of my lizardmen. I also have a baby raptor that I will be adding to my lizardman raiding party.

I can imagine the dinosaurs from JW:FK finding a place in fantasy MOCs either as they are or modded into dragons.

 

[x105Black]

I enjoy collecting animals and dinosaurs for integration into my Castle builds.  Raptors are particularly useful in this regard.

[Aanchir]

Wait, wait, hold up a second. So creatures from tens of millions of years before the medieval era are A-OK for Castle layouts, but mechs, flying machines, and motorcycles in Castle sets are a travesty?

[AmperZand]

On 23/05/2018 at 4:53 PM, Aanchir said:

Wait, wait, hold up a second. So creatures from tens of millions of years before the medieval era are A-OK for Castle layouts, but mechs, flying machines, and motorcycles in Castle sets are a travesty?

In fairness, EB's 'Historic Themes' include fantasy. So while dinosaurs would certainly not qualify on historical grounds, I reckon they do when used as fantastic creatures such as mounts, guard animals or pets for fantasy characters or in fantasy contexts.  

Update: I have no connection with @Dorino, but while surfing this forum I came across his cool creation of a goblin riding an armoured dinosaur.  In itself, it doesn't prove anything but does suggest that @x105Black and I aren't the only ones to use dinosaurs as fantasy creatures.

Edited May 27, 2018 by AmperZand

[x105Black]

Just now, AmperZand said:

In fairness, EB's 'Historic Themes' include fantasy. So while dinosaurs would certainly not qualify on historical grounds, I reckon they do when used as fantastic creatures such as mounts, guard animals or pets for fantasy characters or in fantasy contexts.  

Exactly.  They can be more easily applied to a medieval inspired era than futuristic technology.  At least that's my opinion.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, AmperZand said:

In fairness, EB's 'Historic Themes' include fantasy. So while dinosaurs would certainly not qualify on historical grounds, I reckon they do when used as fantastic creatures such as mounts, guard animals or pets for fantasy characters or in fantasy contexts.  

The same as Nexo Knights should qualify as future fantasy then!

[x105Black]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

The same as Nexo Knights should qualify as future fantasy then!

Future Fantasy, AKA Science Fiction.

[Aanchir]

7 minutes ago, x105Black said:

Future Fantasy, AKA Science Fiction.

Sure, I suppose. But science fiction and fantasy aren't mutually exclusive, even if Eurobricks tries in vain to treat them like they are.

[x105Black]

58 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Sure, I suppose. But science fiction and fantasy aren't mutually exclusive, even if Eurobricks tries in vain to treat them like they are.

There is crossover, sure, but that is usually pretty rare.  Most examples fall into one category or the other.

Star Trek = Science Fiction

Lord of the Rings = Fantasy

Things like Star Wars (which technically falls into Space Opera and is an amalgam of many things) are generally considered to be Science Fantasy, which is more akin to Science Fiction with Fantasy elements.  He-Man falls into this category, with a barbarian flavor.  The old Visionaries cartoon is also in this sub-genre.

Steampunk can ride the line a bit, but it depends on how advanced you allow the steam technology to be.  Traditional Steampunk is more Science Fiction though, since it revolves around an era much more advanced than the medieval.  Some steam-based tech can work well with medieval fantasy, however.

So again, while there is some occasional crossover, and a few sub-genres that fall in between, there is a pretty clear delineation between the two genres.

[Mr. President]

I'm not sure about that. The line is sometimes surprisingly hard to draw. In Tower of the Elephant, one of Conan's first published adventures, he meets an alien from outer space. The Vancian spellcasting system that powers Dungeons and Dragons and its spinoffs originated in Tales of the Dying Earth, which is usually classed as science fiction. That's even before we get into the conceptual and structural similarities between pulp era science fiction and fantasy - Princess of Mars, also usually considered sci-fi, has more in common with the stories of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser than it does with Star Trek or Star Wars.

[Rogue Angel]

Robert Howard had a very similar storytelling style for a lot of his stories, and often told a similar Conan-esque story in different settings, but it largely fell into a fantasy-type story with Technology falling more into "artifacts" of a sort. For most authors, there is a rather distinct difference between fantasy and science fiction. You will always have some exceptions, but the vast majority follow one type or the other.

[Lord Insanity]

Science Fiction was originally considered a sub-category of Fantasy.  Today most people automatically assume:  Fantasy = Medieval and/or Ancient Fantasy.  Science Fiction = Futuristic Fantasy.  Science Fantasy is this weird modern term nerds invented because Star Trek is totally different than Star Wars darn it.   Steampunk is a modern term for Western and/or Victorian Fantasy.   The old 60s TV show Wild Wild West (and its crappy 90s remake movie) were Steampunk before that was even a common term.

[Wardancer]

Hear ye, hear ye! Here speaketh the creator of the thread. My favourite thread, the only one I regularly check on EB. Please don‘t waste our time with discussions of genre, history or Nexo Knights. They lead nowhere (believe me, I have a Ph.D. in occult and Fantasy literature) and make me scroll endlessly when I look for new parts which can be used for historic themes.

 

[nine09nueve]

4 minutes ago, Wardancer said:

Hear ye, hear ye! Here speaketh the creator of the thread. My favourite thread, the only one I regularly check on EB. Please don‘t waste our time with discussions of genre, history or Nexo Knights. They lead nowhere (believe me, I have a Ph.D. in occult and Fantasy literature) and make me scroll endlessly when I look for new parts which can be used for historic themes.

 

Hear Hear Lord Wardancer... well said :)