Blakbird

[GBC] The Akiyuki Project

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I am back from some more traveling and ready for my next GBC project. I am very strongly considering doing the Invisible Lift. One question...do I have to use the "soft" springs (light bluish gray) for this, or can I use the "Hard" springs (yellow)? I think the yellow spring adds a bit of color, but with they function properly? Looking forward to feedback, along with any other words of wisdom or help. I plan to follow theRebrickers video instructions, as well as referring to Blakbrids pdf.

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@rskamen Definitely soft springs! And there are apparently two types of soft springs, older and new ones. Mixing them good be detrimental for reliability although I did not have the issue, my springs were all new.

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18 hours ago, Juroen said:

I finally found some time to continue on the build. I have connected all motors to the EV3-brick. Everything is running fine. Only 3 more color sensors to go, altough these are not really necessary for the operation. But I may use these for positioning all components before running the program. Also figured out the pressure switch and started to connect the first pneumatic hoses. 

1920x1440.jpg

Hi Juroen, it is looking really good I have been following the progress. I have started my own. if possible can you send me/post some more detailed pics? I am working on an Stud.io drawing and it would make that process a bit easier! thanks, Henry

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23 hours ago, Juroen said:

I finally found some time to continue on the build. I have connected all motors to the EV3-brick. Everything is running fine. Only 3 more color sensors to go, altough these are not really necessary for the operation. But I may use these for positioning all components before running the program. Also figured out the pressure switch and started to connect the first pneumatic hoses. 

Looking better and better! Glad to see you could continue working on it, hope you'll finish the build soon and everything will run smoothly, can't wait to see a video :sweet: In the meantime I built Quanix' air compressor for another pneumatic module (XL version with 2 XL motors and 8 cylinders). Must say that runs splendidly, very solid construction, easy to build, not too noisy and a reliable/constant air flow and pressure. Still wondering how many of those would be needed to operate the Ball Cleaner if no external air compressor is used, but I guess we'll know the answer to that question soon :grin: Thanks Juroen for keeping us in the loop of your project, always nice to see the progress made!

@Juroen, did you ever find out what that gray part was that you were unable to identify some time ago? Or did you use some kind of workaround? Just curious...

@drullph20, was also curious to know how your build of the Ball Cleaner was progressing...

3 hours ago, HRU_Bricks said:

Hi Juroen, it is looking really good I have been following the progress. I have started my own. if possible can you send me/post some more detailed pics? I am working on an Stud.io drawing and it would make that process a bit easier! thanks, Henry

Maybe you could team up :sweet: I recall Juroen saying he wasn't planning on making instructions himself, but he would take pictures of the building process, so if someone else is willing and able to make a 3D model / pdf instructions of it, that would be superb!

Collaborations of that kind are not unusual here on Eurobricks. Guess it's better though to wait till the build is 100% finalized and working flawlessly.

Edited by Lego_GBC_NL

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20 hours ago, Berthil said:

@rskamen Definitely soft springs! And there are apparently two types of soft springs, older and new ones. Mixing them good be detrimental for reliability although I did not have the issue, my springs were all new.

Thank you Berthil for your comments. I have been following your posts and watched your video in the invisible lift. Great work on your behalf.

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@Lego_GBC_NL I have solved the part, it was an axle pin with an axle connector 2L. :classic: I will first add the additional color sensors and the rest of the pneumatic hoses. I have decided I will build the Quanix air compressor as well. Glad to hear it runs smooth. I think the minimum requirement for the ball cleaner will be 2 compressors. Probably will start with the compressor in 2 months. Did you use the reinforced cylinders?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=bb875&C=7#T=C&C=7

@HRU_Bricks I will send you pictures when I have finalized build. However I have build this module by just looking at the YouTube videos and the pictures provided by @9v system:wink:

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3 hours ago, Juroen said:

@Lego_GBC_NL I have solved the part, it was an axle pin with an axle connector 2L. :classic: I will first add the additional color sensors and the rest of the pneumatic hoses. I have decided I will build the Quanix air compressor as well. Glad to hear it runs smooth. I think the minimum requirement for the ball cleaner will be 2 compressors. Probably will start with the compressor in 2 months. Did you use the reinforced cylinders?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=bb875&C=7#T=C&C=7

@HRU_Bricks I will send you pictures when I have finalized build. However I have build this module by just looking at the YouTube videos and the pictures provided by @9v system:wink:

@Juroen That will be very helpful, I have been using the video's and @9v system pictures as well. I am not in a rush for the pictures as I have a heap of modules to build for Bricktober 2019 (Perth) that will take priority. 

I have built and modified the Quanix compressor. It is a great design but you will need at least 2 to run the cleaning machine. Video coming soon....

 

10 hours ago, Lego_GBC_NL said:

Looking better and better! Glad to see you could continue working on it, hope you'll finish the build soon and everything will run smoothly, can't wait to see a video :sweet: In the meantime I built Quanix' air compressor for another pneumatic module (XL version with 2 XL motors and 8 cylinders). Must say that runs splendidly, very solid construction, easy to build, not too noisy and a reliable/constant air flow and pressure. Still wondering how many of those would be needed to operate the Ball Cleaner if no external air compressor is used, but I guess we'll know the answer to that question soon :grin: Thanks Juroen for keeping us in the loop of your project, always nice to see the progress made!

@Juroen, did you ever find out what that gray part was that you were unable to identify some time ago? Or did you use some kind of workaround? Just curious...

@drullph20, was also curious to know how your build of the Ball Cleaner was progressing...

Maybe you could team up :sweet: I recall Juroen saying he wasn't planning on making instructions himself, but he would take pictures of the building process, so if someone else is willing and able to make a 3D model / pdf instructions of it, that would be superb!

Collaborations of that kind are not unusual here on Eurobricks. Guess it's better though to wait till the build is 100% finalized and working flawlessly.

Can do. It will have to be after Bricktober 2019 (October). The 3D model will not take to long to complete but proper step by step instructions is were the time is. Also I do want to update the design with new build techniques and parts as well as potentially use the Control + hub. Mindstorm is great but not overly inexpensive. 4 channels should be enough to run the cleaning machine as a continuous process (ie not activation sensors). 

1A.jpg

Edited by HRU_Bricks
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21 minutes ago, Juroen said:

@HRU_Bricks Which part no. cylinders did you use?

I use Pneumatic Pump Small (6L) V2 with Reinforced Cylinder Part bb875. They do work well,however I did have one fail pretty quickly. They start to make a popping sound at low pressure. I would recommend using a non Lego source of air when building or testing. if your going to display it at a show more is better ie have at least double of what you need and add an automatic switch.

I use a HP diving cylinder, lots and lots of air...

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20 hours ago, Juroen said:

I have solved the part, it was an axle pin with an axle connector 2L. :classic: I will first add the additional color sensors and the rest of the pneumatic hoses. I have decided I will build the Quanix air compressor as well. Glad to hear it runs smooth. I think the minimum requirement for the ball cleaner will be 2 compressors. Probably will start with the compressor in 2 months. Did you use the reinforced cylinders?

@JuroenLOL, funny to hear it was that simple :sweet: Better/easier/cheaper if it's just common Technic parts like an axle pin and axle connector... looking at the picture it really looked like Akiyuki used some kind of special part as the axle connector seemed to narrow down at one end, but maybe it was just an optical illusion due to the angle of the picture :tongue:

When I started ordering/collecting parts for Quanix' air compressor I also had doubts about the type of cylinders/pumps to use, in the building instructions he included the "normal"/old ones. In the end I used the unreinforced type (Lego ID 19482c01), but mainly because I had them laying around and both types are quite expensive if you wish to buy them new and need quantities of 8 or even 16 :angry:. Had no issues/fails so far with the unreinforced ones, but I do have to admit I didn't have the compressor run for hours and I didn't use it for any huge pneumatic module, such as the Ball Cleaner or Pneumatic Ball Factory. 

I read in the comments of one of the Pneumatic Ball Factory vids on YouTube that Quanix first tried to use his own air compressors (first the XL version, then XXL), but as he kept enlarging the project by adding more and more pneumatic cylinders/pumps, he eventually decided to switch to an external air compressor. Guess the Ball Cleaner uses a bit less pumps/cylinders and also in terms of total length of pneumatic tubes it's a different story I think, so the XXL version might do the trick (at least I hope so :grin:).

17 hours ago, HRU_Bricks said:

Can do. It will have to be after Bricktober 2019 (October). The 3D model will not take to long to complete but proper step by step instructions is were the time is. Also I do want to update the design with new build techniques and parts as well as potentially use the Control + hub. Mindstorm is great but not overly inexpensive. 4 channels should be enough to run the cleaning machine as a continuous process (ie not activation sensors). 

1A.jpg

@HRU_BricksGreat, that sounds very promising! :classic: Guess we need to have a little patience then... :drool:

Your modified version of Quanix' air compressor looks very solid and sturdy, like it! Did you use any of those blue/white pneumatic airtanks for storing more air? Will we need those to operate the Ball Cleaner I wonder...?

Edited by Lego_GBC_NL

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2 hours ago, Lego_GBC_NL said:

 

When I started ordering/collecting parts for Quanix' air compressor I also had doubts about the type of cylinders/pumps to use, in the building instructions he included the "normal"/old ones. In the end I used the unreinforced type (Lego ID 19482c01), but mainly because I had them laying around and both types are quite expensive if you wish to buy them new and need quantities of 8 or even 16 :angry:. Had no issues/fails so far with the unreinforced ones, but I do have to admit I didn't have the compressor run for hours and I didn't use it for any huge pneumatic module, such as the Ball Cleaner or Pneumatic Ball Factory. 

I read in the comments of one of the Pneumatic Ball Factory vids on YouTube that Quanix first tried to use his own air compressors (first the XL version, then XXL), but as he kept enlarging the project by adding more and more pneumatic cylinders/pumps, he eventually decided to switch to an external air compressor. Guess the Ball Cleaner uses a bit less pumps/cylinders and also in terms of total length of pneumatic tubes it's a different story I think, so the XXL version might do the trick (at least I hope so :grin:).

It was a nice challenge to reverse engineer this design. That’s what it’s was about for me. At this moment I don’t have the intention to run it for hours. As I will have only one GBC module, I’m not planning to attend any exhibitions.

The ball cleaner has 7 48mm medium cylinders of which one is only used for the pressure switch and 2 32mm small cylinders. Not all cylinders are operated at the same time and there’s an airtank built within the module. Nevertheless using an external air compressor feels like cheating to me. I will build the XL version with unreinforced cylinders and see how that goes. If necessary I’m upgrading to XXL. :wink:

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@Lego_GBC_NL There is 2 cylinders in the build behind the gauge (see picture below...I need to get a Fliker account...). The cylinders help with spikes of usage however the compressor has to re-fill the gas that has been consumed and continue to supply the module/build. The ball cleaner will need at least one cylinder to provide volume for high use moments of operation due to supply line restrictions. With any pneumatic build it is good practice to include one as close to the valves as possible (within the module you have built).

@Juroen The 48mm cylinders will consume a lot of air. I do agree with the cheating thing... for me it is I either build 4 compressors to get it to work well or I put that funding into other builds. I also do not believe that the compressor cylinders do well when running for long periods of time. 

The key with my compressor is that there is a central drive shaft that drives the compressor cylinders from both sides there by lessening the torsion effect on the drive assembly. Let me know when your building yours and I will send you the LLD

 

1A rear view.jpg

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Hi after long time finally I adding new photo from my progress on this project. My version is slightly adjusted due to control unit NXT. At the moment I have a viable only 9 wooden balls for testing so when I will receive new plastic balls I will add final video. Lately I did have very little time to finish built but hold on I will get it done.

 

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Bricksafe link:

https://bricksafe.com/pages/drullph20/lego-ball-cleaner

 

 

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@drullph20 From the photos you are using the PF L Motor to drive the picking section left and right. How do you control the stops? is is using a motor to drive the PF switch or another method?

 

 

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On 2/17/2019 at 4:13 AM, HRU_Bricks said:

@Lego_GBC_NL There is 2 cylinders in the build behind the gauge (see picture below...I need to get a Fliker account...). The cylinders help with spikes of usage however the compressor has to re-fill the gas that has been consumed and continue to supply the module/build. The ball cleaner will need at least one cylinder to provide volume for high use moments of operation due to supply line restrictions. With any pneumatic build it is good practice to include one as close to the valves as possible (within the module you have built).

@Juroen The 48mm cylinders will consume a lot of air. I do agree with the cheating thing... for me it is I either build 4 compressors to get it to work well or I put that funding into other builds. I also do not believe that the compressor cylinders do well when running for long periods of time. 

The key with my compressor is that there is a central drive shaft that drives the compressor cylinders from both sides there by lessening the torsion effect on the drive assembly. Let me know when your building yours and I will send you the LLD

 

1A rear view.jpg

Ok great, that's good to hear! At the moment I have 2 blue ones, but will acquire more airtanks if needed for any huge pneumatic project :grin: Still consider giving Quanix' Pneumatic Ball Factory (v1) a go at some point in the future, seeing that reverse engineering has been done for a considerable part of it and decent instructions have been created (KrisBrix, Turbopolofr,...). 

I agree with both of you on the cheating thing. I'm really a Lego purist as well, so would be great if no external devices are used!

20 hours ago, drullph20 said:

Hi after long time finally I adding new photo from my progress on this project. My version is slightly adjusted due to control unit NXT. At the moment I have a viable only 9 wooden balls for testing so when I will receive new plastic balls I will add final video. Lately I did have very little time to finish built but hold on I will get it done.

Wow, looks superb and runs smoothly! Really like the colour combination of black and yellow! Also nice to see how all pneumatic tubes "fly around" in the video (it's like they're everywhere :grin:), but how neat everything turns out in the end when looking to the pictures! Think I'll need to order some extra meters of Lego tubes soon... Well done! :classic:

Never owned an NXT set, only EV3, so have always wondered how they differ from each other. What did you need to adjust in your version to get things working with NXT?

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@Lego_GBC_NL The Quanix builds are a good builds. I have reverse engineered most of V2 and incorporated parts of it and also improved other parts. The timing is key with them, if your off by a few gear teeth or wrong hose the whole thing goes bad. I have nearly finished a video and Stud.io file of my Lego Boost Controlled GBC Pneumatic Ball Factory which has the picking robot, modified ball supply and modified control box, I'll post a link here for it. Once that is done I was thinking of looking at elements of the V3 and also uploading the other parts of the V2..... Just so many good builds to complete at the moment! :grin:

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:34 PM, HRU_Bricks said:

@Lego_GBC_NL The Quanix builds are a good builds. I have reverse engineered most of V2 and incorporated parts of it and also improved other parts. The timing is key with them, if your off by a few gear teeth or wrong hose the whole thing goes bad. I have nearly finished a video and Stud.io file of my Lego Boost Controlled GBC Pneumatic Ball Factory which has the picking robot, modified ball supply and modified control box, I'll post a link here for it. Once that is done I was thinking of looking at elements of the V3 and also uploading the other parts of the V2..... Just so many good builds to complete at the moment! :grin:

Would love to see that video! :classic: Believe I haven't seen any videos or pictures yet of someone who managed to successfully build one of the versions of the Pneumatic Ball Factory (or part of it), so would be nice to have some kind of "proof" to see that it's feasible... :tongue:

Version 1 was already fantastic, but with V2 & V3 it's getting better and better! Indeed I think it will be very difficult to get the whole thing running flawlessly, certainly seeing that so many pneumatic parts are involved. Level of difficulty with regards to timing, setup and alignment must be similar to Akiyuki's Ball Factory! So it will be a challenge :grin:

Just read some of the communication you had with Quanix on YouTube (V3 video). His explanation on the timing surprised and amazed me: "I do not calculate the timing of the Control Unit. The timing of certain processes, I get down with throttling. All you have to do is narrow down the cross section of the hose. Thus, one obtains a time delay and slower speed of the cylinders". Nice that he shared some pictures of this throttling method, seems complicated...

 

 

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@Lego_GBC_NL 

The Quanix builds can be complicated indeed but they have been really good to re-engineer and build. Time is literally everything with the build down to the gears on the control box, if they are out by a few teeth it just dose not flow right. 

Currently I have re-engineered V2 ball ball supply, ball picking robot, and long distance pick and place module and most importantly the control box (my favorite module). I do not know if I will end up building a replica but I will defiantly (and already have) incorporated the concepts into my own builds (see my thumb nail for a hint of the first one :wink:). 

I have worked out a way to map out all of the functions and design control circuits (after he said he docent do it) It just a functional analysis of each section/cylinder group in a matrix swim lane flow chart. It is handy when fault finding and maintaining automated industrial equipment

I do like the throttling down down concept, it works really well in the V3 for the turntable (another great new concept and is definatly on the re-engineering agenda). I do want to work out a way of doing it without using a non-Lego method as it cant be readily seen. As I write this the new pneumatic valves may do it in the half on position (I was prototyping something else today and found that little quirk). 

The video is just about done as is the Stud.io file. once uploaded I will post some links and you can build away! 

You've given me an idea to do a small GBC module with the Long pick and place module as well as the control box so that might be my next build video. 

 

https://rebrickable.com/users/HRU Bricks/mocs/ 

https://www.youtube.com/c/SmashingBricksAU

https://www.bricksafe.com/pages/HRU_Bricks 

 

 

Edited by HRU_Bricks

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On 2/22/2019 at 9:03 AM, Lego_GBC_NL said:

Would love to see that video! :classic: Believe I haven't seen any videos or pictures yet of someone who managed to successfully build one of the versions of the Pneumatic Ball Factory (or part of it), so would be nice to have some kind of "proof" to see that it's feasible... :tongue:

Version 1 was already fantastic, but with V2 & V3 it's getting better and better! Indeed I think it will be very difficult to get the whole thing running flawlessly, certainly seeing that so many pneumatic parts are involved. Level of difficulty with regards to timing, setup and alignment must be similar to Akiyuki's Ball Factory! So it will be a challenge :grin:

Just read some of the communication you had with Quanix on YouTube (V3 video). His explanation on the timing surprised and amazed me: "I do not calculate the timing of the Control Unit. The timing of certain processes, I get down with throttling. All you have to do is narrow down the cross section of the hose. Thus, one obtains a time delay and slower speed of the cylinders". Nice that he shared some pictures of this throttling method, seems complicated...

 

 

The video is finally done and uploaded ---> 

 Instructions should be on Rebrickable shortly (once appoved)

Edited by HRU_Bricks

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@HRU_Bricks Looking forward to see the video of the compressor! Ballfactory looks awesome, do you have it running at full speed?

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@9v system @Juroen @drullph20 

I have been working on a mechanical control system for the Ball Cleaning module and have a good idea of the operation and how to achieve it there is just one section that is alluding me. It is the switch valve to raise and lower the L Motor that drives the barrel and apply pressure to the cleaning pad on the balls. From what I can surmise the overall process has 8 distinct steps and 8 distinct functions. All functions are either activated on a 1/2, or 1/4 or 1/8 cycle/sequence over the 8 steps. The the switch valve to raise and lower the L Motor that drives the barrel and apply pressure to the cleaning pad on the balls functions as 1/4 but only in the first 2 steps. I can kind of make out what is going on from the pictures floating around but am chasing further details/pictures on the valve circuit. 

I have added a Bricksafe folder ( https://www.bricksafe.com/pages/HRU_Bricks/gbc-ball-cleaning-machine-build ) with some snapshots of a part that I am part that is of interest. It is 1x2 lift arms driving a pneumo valve back and forth. I did build it today with both an old valve and the new through axle valve but found it did not full open up the valve which reduced the speed and power of the cylinder.

Any Thoughts?

Mechanical%20valve%20operation%201.JPG

Mechanical%20valve%20operation%202.JPG

SnapShot2.jpg

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Juroen said:

@HRU_Bricks Looking forward to see the video of the compressor! Ballfactory looks awesome, do you have it running at full speed?

It was running as quickly as I was comfortable, speed was not the driver, consistent  operation and it staying together is the goal :wink: that said it can run faster by adjusting the program. 

i'll let you know when the compressor is complete.

Edited by HRU_Bricks

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@HRU_Bricks I was struggeling with the same problem. I don’t have any additional pictures. I have taken this picture as one of my prototype builds.

https://www.bricksafe.com/files/Juroen/building-tech/A83D65C0-AB9C-4373-8689-17D0813395AB.jpeg/1920x1440.jpg

However this switch operates the clamping of the balls instead of raising/lowering the L-motor... :classic: Therefor I don’t think you need to open the valve completly as these cylinders for clamping are relatively small.

 

 

Edited by Juroen

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Nice to see this thread nice and busy, especially with the work going on with the ball cleaner by @Juroen, @HRU_Bricks and @drullph20!

Welcome back @rskamen! I too have just got back from a rather long holiday. Am currently trying to catch up with everything!

Adding the new Akiyuki module again, just so it shows the thumbnail. I get the feeling this site doesn't check for the youtu.be URL.

With this module, I like how it speeds up after it drops the ball off.

I also like the fact that it isn't too big, so shouldn't break the bank to build!

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