BirdOPrey5

Some Rude Moderators?

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1 hour ago, Captain Nemo said:

For transparency I'll note this: 

The member was banned for posting a leaked Lego set image on this site with a very large and unmistakable watermark stamped "confidential" in the center. Whatever the previous circumstances may have been, that is an immediate ban-able offence, one that is stated very clearly in our site guidelines and often repeated by mods in various forums. Point blank we cannot have blatant confidential images being hosted (or attributed to) our site; it causes trouble, specifically that of unnamed Danish plastic toy businesses who may or may not contact us directly about issues of this nature.  

So as always, as a reminder, please do not post confidential images on Eurobricks. 

Hopefully that gives some insight into this one instance. :thumbup:

 

Thank you for taking the time to provide details of the circumstances.

However, I personally feel that these forums will be lessened by the loss of this member. His contributions kept me coming back more often than I had in the past. The minifig games in the Star Wars & Licensed forums were a fun diversion from the daily grind. They changed me from an observer to a participant in these forums and in doing so I read many other posts and followed links in signatures that I otherwise would not have seen.

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To @Peppermint_M, @Captain Nemo, and all the others who do a splendid job of maintaining this forum, I thank you. :classic:

To those who have shared their thoughts ( @AgentKallus of Hydra, @Duncan Young, and others) I say this.

The rules are the rules. 

I understand your feelings about vaderfan2178 being banned, but did he break the rules by posting a confidential image?

Yes.

Was the penalty appropriate based on what the rules say?

Yes. 

Would some of the rules be deemed a little harsh?

Maybe.

Should some of the rules be changed?

I don't know. That's another discussion.

Should we vote for moderators and assume that's a good idea?

:hmpf: Please.

Will I miss vaderfan2187? 

Yes.

Will he be back?

Let's hope. :wink:

 

 

 

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I was quite surprised seeing VaderFan being banned as well. I knew, he didn't had the best start in the forum and didn't show the wisest behaviour. I was actually not happy with some of the early posts he made. But as time went on, he actually showed good intentions and the ability and will to reflect on and learn from what he did wrong and changed his behaviour.

So I think the current ban is very unfortunate, though it appears not to be related to the issues I mentioned, but was for posting a confidential image. That makes it kind of tragic, since I am sure he didn't mean to cause potential trouble to Eurobricks. I think it was, as it happens with him, one of these moments where he didn't think of the possible consequences his actions might have.

I hope his ban is only temporary, since I do believe he is a positive contributor.

 

About the board moderation itself:

I agree with board members electing the moderators would open an ugly can of worms, with the obvious issues of it making a popularity contest and causing rivalries and tension across the board. So - better keep it as it is. It seems to work well after all. At least from what I have seen.

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6 hours ago, Captain Nemo said:

For transparency I'll note this: 

The member was banned for posting a leaked Lego set image on this site with a very large and unmistakable watermark stamped "confidential" in the center. Whatever the previous circumstances may have been, that is an immediate ban-able offence, one that is stated very clearly in our site guidelines and often repeated by mods in various forums. Point blank we cannot have blatant confidential images being hosted (or attributed to) our site; it causes trouble, specifically that of unnamed Danish plastic toy businesses who may or may not contact us directly about issues of this nature.  

So as always, as a reminder, please do not post confidential images on Eurobricks. 

Hopefully that gives some insight into this one instance. :thumbup:

Thanks Captain Nemo. I think most of us here understand the importance of keeping confidential images out of here, so your point is taken. :thumbup:

Again, I don't really know enough about the member's case, since I did not follow every single one of his posts, but if this was a first offense, I personally feel banning goes a little too far. Granted, again, I don't know if he was responsive in the chamber, so I can't entirely vouch for him. I'd just hope that people would get second chances for any first mistakes on Eurobricks, assuming they show the intention of making them right.

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3 hours ago, BrickHat said:

Again, I don't really know enough about the member's case, since I did not follow every single one of his posts, but if this was a first offense, I personally feel banning goes a little too far.

As a normal member who follows all his posts to observe, I can tell you that he's always been threading a dangerous path. I don't know how many warnings he received for getting off topic from the beginning. I think he really gave a bit of a challenge to a lot of patient moderators, too. It could be just generation gap really because majority of his posts belong to Twitter's 140 character limit which many people see as spammy or just downright 'immature'. I know he's always been in the crosshair of some moderators because it's really down to his tendencies to push boundaries. I know I gave him a few unsolicited advise to stay out of the spotlight but lo and behold, he forgot to remember the top reason on how to get banned in Eurobricks... But you know the saying, ignorance of the law is not an excuse -- and it applies to EB rules and regulations too. 

It is sad indeed and quite unfortunate.

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I feel I should add my thoughts to the various discussions going on here.

RE Should Mods Be Elected: No. For a start, it would be far more trouble than it is worth. Current mods have the experience. If we had to 'train' new ones every few years, the rules and regulations could never be enforced consistently, resulting in different penalties for the same 'crimes' as others. Boundaries could become harder to identify, and many newer members may be caught out by joining under a relaxed moderator and then coming under fire from the next, perhaps stricter one. 
The interesting competitions and other events we all enjoy would not be able to happen as frequently or as well-organised as at present. In the parts of the site I visit, we are all happy with our moderators and the way they handle their job; changing them would be a pointless and expensive exercise.
Many people would abuse the system; either to trying to gain 'power', running purely to displace another disliked mod, or even taking 'revenge' on another member that he or she dislikes. The only way of preventing these malicious intents would be to retain admins (who would have to stay anyway for their knowledge of the site's mechanics) and people to moderate the elected moderators, and we're practically back to square one except with bitter rivalry, competition and unrest at the level between members and the admins. This is not what I would want to see on this fairly peaceful forum.

RE Should @VaderFan2187 Have Been Banned: Unfortunately, yes. The rules and guidelines are there, as many moderators have said, and he crossed them too many times in the past and then the biggest one recently, even if accidentally. I didn't know him except for the conversations he had earlier in this thread; from other's reactions, I suspect as a prolific contributor he will be missed. However, I don't think there's much more to be said on this topic. Again, these are both just my 2p-thoughts.

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Members show themselves as helpful, interested and capable. Many of the regulators in parts of the forum were already creating and running an index or had outright offered to help out or suggested help to the forum Mod. They needed a few extra powers to help out and were made a regulator, if they prove themselves to be trustworthy and capable then they remain regulator. Later, if a need for a moderator arises one of these regulators could be considered as a candidate and are often amongst the first choices. The whole process, right from a Mod suggesting that a user could be a regulator, is discussed by the whole staff.

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When you sign up to this site you agree to follow the site guidelines, which do state to not post confidential pictures. Vaderfan was a good member of the forum, and I liked the enthusiasm he brought to it, but if he disobeyed the rules, then that's on him. 

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It's too bad when people get banned, especially people who give us members valuable information about the future.  Everyone knows, however, that posting confidential images is a bannable offence.  It's a shame, but the rule is there for a very valid reason, which is to protect this site from the wrath of LEGO itself.  Fair enough.

As far as electing forum staff, I think that's a bit much.  The staff here, by and large, do a good job.  But I do understand the desire of the members here to influence the maintenance of the board.  Perhaps there could be a way for members to nominate additional staff.  This way, there is no obligation to bring that person into the staff, and hopefully the nominee will prove to be someone of actual value to the forum.  It would just be a way for the membership to support another member and make a recommendation.

Furthermore, there has been talk of an impeachment mechanism.  I think, again, that this could be made into a nomination or recommendation.  Basically, there could be a way for the membership to indicate that they have issues with a member of the staff, to air grievances (much like what this thread allows), and to formally ask for that staff member to resign.  The staff would be under no obligation to make any sort of changes, but they would get the idea, and maybe it could result in some sort of communication amongst the staff to encourage the questionable staff member to act or react differently in the future.

Of course, there may never really be a need for these things.  I think the membership just wants to be involved, and to have a way to influence the way that the staff works here.  It's generally out of a desire to improve a forum that they love, so the staff should keep that in mind when considering these ideas.

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5 hours ago, Duncan Young said:

I see, thanks for the information but I doubt I'd get any support from Moderators due to my accusations here :tongue:

You are more than welcome to voice your opinion or views.  This is the place for that.  As long as we can keep it civil, everything should be just fine.

Everyone on this forum is equal.  Nobody gets any 'special treatment' either.  Anyone ever heard the term "play stupid games, win stupid prizes?"  If you break the rules, repeatedly, over the course of a year, then yes, you will get in trouble.  I'm the one who removed VaderFan.  He had ample warnings to follow the rules, along with a few visits to the chamber.  In the end, it just did not pan out for him as a member here.  I'm sorry if some of you are frustrated about this, but honestly, it's none of your business why a member is removed.  You are more than welcome to discuss it with that member (ex-member), but we as staff will not and should not be sharing that info.

I know it's called Rude Moderators, but again, if you have concerns, please fell free to voice them here.

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After reading the last two pages of this thread, I see that there was a very good reason for banning VF2187.  

However, in the Star Wars forum it appeared like the ban was due to moderator impatience with the minifig voting games.  I have been following the forum for ten years, and those games seemed to me to be conducted in a remarkably respectful fashion, with special care to avoid disrupting the first page of the forum and without a pattern of disrespectful posts.  I can find nothing against those games in the site guidelines, so I wonder if it was appropriate to lock them along with banning VF2187.  

Because of cases like this, in which a member who is seemingly in good standing is suddenly banned, I would like to respectfully suggest that it is appropriate to provide a minimal description of why banned members were banned.  Perhaps it could be a small notice on the member profile.  

Without such transparency, the situation is comparable (perhaps hyperbolically) to a knock on the door in the night, in which a man suddenly disappears and the neighbors have no idea why.  The low incidence of complaints in the broader Eurobricks community could be partially attributed to a fear that speaking out might incur a ban.  That is why I only recently created a user account, despite reading the forum for ten years: fear of accidentally incurring the displeasure of a moderator and suffering a ban.

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Somebody above (yeah looking at you stash-2-sixx) said play stupid games, win stupid prizes, lol love it.

on topic though, in general we are all curious beasts, just human nature but it's none of our business to know, or in no way we have a right to ask or demand explanation about another members ban etc.

If the crowd wasn't so tough here, then moderators wouldnt have to be either. Rules are rules btw. Voting for moderators? Please.....

i admire the mods who do what they do here for free, I mean no disrespect to anyone, but being a mod and dealing with some of you is like a punishment. And mods I'm sure would like to enjoy Lego too, instead they have to deal with....well, with tough crowd. Don't forget, They are afols too.

at the end this applies to everybody including me: you don't like it? C ya. Rude moderators? Deal with it.

 

 

 

Edited by Lordoflego

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2 hours ago, icm said:

After reading the last two pages of this thread, I see that there was a very good reason for banning VF2187.  

However, in the Star Wars forum it appeared like the ban was due to moderator impatience with the minifig voting games.  I have been following the forum for ten years, and those games seemed to me to be conducted in a remarkably respectful fashion, with special care to avoid disrupting the first page of the forum and without a pattern of disrespectful posts.  I can find nothing against those games in the site guidelines, so I wonder if it was appropriate to lock them along with banning VF2187.  

Vaderfan2187 was banned due to posting a confidential image, not because of a moderator's "impatience" with the minifig contest topics VF2187 was posting.

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Yes, LegoMonorailFan, I am aware of that.  The first paragraph of my post was intended to show my awareness of that fact.  The moderator action in locking the minifig voting thread at the same time as VF2187 was banned, together with the moderator's language in locking that thread, confused the issue to casual observers.  Hence the desire for a minimal indicator on the profiles of banned members for the reason for the ban: in this case, it might read "confidential images" rather than "disruptive threads," or perhaps give a brief numerical citation of the clause in the site guidelines upon which the ban is based.

Edited by icm
Corrected typographical error.

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Member ban reasons are usually kept private, in respect to the member banned in a sort of way. Why parade them around as public examples after their ban as examples of "This is what they did wrong!"? I can only think of two high profile bannings recently (VaderFan and CM4Sci) and in both cases both members stated why they were banned long before the mods ever did (VaderFan had a post on his blog hours before this conversation started detailing he had violated the confidential image policy and that he wished us well). These are exceptions to the rules about discussing bans, and not the norm. 

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Voting for staff would never work! By invitation (the current method) is the only way I can think of.

Don't like the way it's run? Vote with your feet, or take the good with the bad.

This is a site for adults, and a lot of people here don't act like them.

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2 hours ago, Artanis I said:

Voting for staff would never work! By invitation (the current method) is the only way I can think of.

Don't like the way it's run? Vote with your feet, or take the good with the bad.

This is a site for adults, and a lot of people here don't act like them.

It was merely a suggestion. I'm happy to continue without it. What exactly is your issue? Is that last part directed anyone on this thread? If you're speaking generally I would agree (see the recent incident with Hexagonal Waffles) but any conversions here have been rather civil

Edited by Duncan Young

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Just now, Duncan Young said:

It was merely a suggestion. I'm all too happy to continue without it.  Is that last part directed anyone on this thread?

At least you're thinking, and nothing wrong with suggestions or ideas, just wanted to add my voice while a bunch of non-staff were in favour without perhaps thinking it all the way through. I know I didn't give any constructive criticism about it, but (I think it was) Pep_M covered it. My post was not aimed at anyone really, just some general opinions about some recent points. And by "here" I meant EB, not [necessarily] this thread. Maybe "a lot" is an exaggeration too...

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I'd also be against votes for mods. It is simply not necessary and would completely change the way the site is run with each "government".

 

There is an alternative if you want to be a mod of a lego fan forum - start your own, build it up and police your forum's members as you like.

 

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My perspective on this issue:

1. Rules are Rules. Whether you like someone or not, the rules need to be up kept in order to maintain some level of stability. Some people feel the need to bend the rules for 5 seconds of fame, over enthusiasm, the list can go on forever. Rules are like law, as much as you may feel personally about something they are the rules. You need to follow the rules it's that simple. 

2. Words in writing are much harder to interpret than they are vocally in person. Five people can read a statement and interpret it is malicious, generous, and everything in between. I would be hesitant to jump to calling someone on the forum rude after interpreting written text from someone you probably don't know personally. If something is open to interpretation, it'd probably be a good move to pull them aside and question them one on one in a PM as opposed to calling them out publicly for it. It is important also to not misinterpret being "blunt" as being "rude".

3. The Staff will work with you if you come to the table with respect. When operating on a forum like this, it can be a bit intimidating. As I've gotten more involved with some of the inner workings here, I've found the staff to be very inviting and welcoming. I've had discussions with both Moderators and Admins about things I wanted to do here, some times they went well and other times not so much. The underlying point was that I approached all of those issues as an outsider with enough courtesy to reach out to the staff on a one to one level and open a level headed discussion to review the positives and negatives to what I wanted to do as opposed to holding an open court or just doing what I wanted without permission. Every time, I've been given mutual respect regardless of how bizarre my request may have been. I find there are a lot of people (in the world as a whole right now) who don't understand that concept these days. 

4. Moderators are people. That means no one is perfect with an infinite level of patience. When people are given warnings on the one to one level and continue exhibiting the same behavior or worse and jump to something else, the people handling that situation tend to get frustrated. A person can only take so much before they hit their limit. It is understandable and only human. As members of the forum and community as a whole, you need to be understanding of one's humanity. 

Regarding the specific individual everyone is referring to, VaderFan, I personally dealt with him several times. I am not a Forum Moderator, but I do run my own section that he regularly contributed to. There were several times I had to pull him to the side to stop certain actions and behaviors while also providing him with advice moving forward. And several times my warnings and advice went in one ear and out the other. It certainly tested my patience and was frustrating. It is always unfortunate when someone needs to be removed from a forum but he simply did not follow the rules multiple times and was deserving of the ban.

With that said, I'd caution anyone to jump to calling a moderator "rude" without first looking at it from their perspective and also evaluating if you could conduct yourself in a more courteous and respectful manner; you may not be the problem but it can't hurt to reflect on yourself before passing judgement on someone else. It is always easier to resolve a problem when the parties involved are level headed and respectful. 

On voting for moderators... This would not work for multiple reasons, namely being popularity for some and the vast size and scope of this forum for others. The staff do a great job now and selecting people should be kept on a one to one basis, not a matter of public interest. 

Edited by TheBeeze

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I understand the banning of Vaderfan2187, due to his posting of confidential images. I also understand that creating lots of threads for voting on minifigs clutters up the topics. But I believe the game should be allowed to continue if it all remains in 1 thread (for each theme). Does that sound fair? I know many people like myself really enjoyed the game and were sad to see it go, along with Vaderfan2187.

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19 hours ago, starwars4ever said:

I understand the banning of Vaderfan2187, due to his posting of confidential images. I also understand that creating lots of threads for voting on minifigs clutters up the topics. But I believe the game should be allowed to continue if it all remains in 1 thread (for each theme). Does that sound fair? I know many people like myself really enjoyed the game and were sad to see it go, along with Vaderfan2187.

It's to early. I'd wait a while longer before bringing this up again. However, there is the best superhero minifig contest? Someone can always do that.

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I have read the most of whats been sayd in this post. Pffff it whas a lot. I have to say that i also have had a collision with a few mods ( no names they no who they are ) on EB more then a year ago. I dont get in to details, but it got me banned. ( witch to be honest i had that comming ). Now if they where so rude, dont talk with eatch other, then i wouldend be back. I now know that is not easy to manage a site like EB. And we all most not forget, all the moderaters overhere do this in there own free time, FOR FREE!! Since about 6 months i am one of the moderators of an Lego FB page with over 15000 members, and i know out of the first hand that it isn'd easy at all. And one of the members here had sayd it allready, there are members from all over the world, differend cultures and ages, so that can be difficult from time to time. I personaly have never seen something wat would point to any racism or someone being bullied. I have to say in a honest way that the whole staff are open for reason and to give people a second chance. And i cant say that, because they give that chance, and accepted my apology. So to all mods keep up the good work, and are you rude sometimes, i can only say moderators and members alike, we are all only human. As for the feeling in a text, i hope that it comes out on the positive way that i meant it to be. I still try my best regarding the English language, so i hope you all can read over my sometimes poor grammer and spelling..


 

 

 

 

 

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