Upgrading 6 wide ES44 AC to 8 Wide ! WIP

[edsmith0075]

Last year I built a 6 wide ES44 AC with 2 L motors and a custom battery setup. This model turned out great, now I'm looking to upgrade this beast to 8 Wide and make it a primary hauler.

Below are some pics thus far. I have included the old 6 wide in the pics as a comparison.

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Any suggestions on advice for doing this build are always appreciated. One problem I had with the 6 wide was that the 3 axle bogie would jump the track all the time when I ran the train in one direction where as going the other direction it was ok and didn't derail. Any suggestions regarding this?

Ed

If anyone would like to see pics of the ES as a 6 wide before I started to tear it apart, let me know. I can post them in this thread as well.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Very nice moc and promising start!

[dr_spock]

Looking good so far. Sounds like torque from the motor could be twisting your trucks off the rails. Maybe the extra weight of 8 wide can help keep it down.

[CrispyBassist]

Any chance you could simply turn the truck around? Then it may want to jump the track going backwards is all...

[A Gallifreyan Cat]

Looks really good. Good luck!

[edsmith0075]

Thank you for the idea of flipping the trucks. I don't know why I did not think of that. I also picked up weights for the new 8 wide version. I have noticed that even the upgrade/mod o rings on the wheels, they still slip when trying to haul long freight trains. Atleast this was my expience with 6 wides.

Any suggestion on length and height for this model. I have been building my 8 wides with the ratio of 50ft = 40 studs or 1ft =1.25 Studs

Hence I have measurements for this loco ES44 as

73ft =58 Studs (length of deck front to back)

11ft = 8 Studs (from the deck height)

Does this sound accurate?

[zephyr1934]

Last year I built a 6 wide ES44 AC with 2 L motors and a custom battery setup. This model turned out great, now I'm looking to upgrade this beast to 8 Wide and make it a primary hauler.

...

Any suggestions on advice for doing this build are always appreciated. One problem I had with the 6 wide was that the 3 axle bogie would jump the track all the time when I ran the train in one direction where as going the other direction it was ok and didn't derail. Any suggestions regarding this?

Oh... ouch ouch ouch. Even if the 6 wide is being retired, it is still painful to watch a lovely model like that get scrapped. Couldn't you just pull the prime mover out and donate it to a park somewhere along the right of way? (grin)

Are you are having problems when the train goes through curves to the left, or is going counter clockwise around a loop? And/or when choosing your gearing for the trucks, the motor torques the entire truck to the right as the engine moves forward?

A quick summary can be found here. Though that discussion was why you will likely have better performance running your steam engines clockwise (rather than counter clockwise) around a 9v layout. The 9v track have a little lip at the joints where the wheels can climb the rail. I think the problem has been reduced on the plastic track, but maybe not.

A similar problem arises in how you choose to transfer power to the wheels. If the central axis is spinning clockwise as the train goes forward it will push the front axle of the truck against the right hand rail and it will hit the small protrusions at the rail joints. Rebuild your truck swapping the location of at least one bevel gears and now the central axis will have to turn counterclockwise to go forward, thus pushing the leading wheel against the left rail, away from the protrusion at the rail joints (see in "Clockwork" in RB 7 for more info).

[edsmith0075]

Here are some progress pics, Im looking for feedback for this build any suggestions on the nose and windshield? Here is what I have thus far.

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Now for the rear, I have been working on this pretty heavy now for a few days. I am struggling to figure out a technique for the rear side panels that have grills. The biggest problem has been building the lower vents on the back. I was going to make the bottom vents one peice, then realized that on the es44 there is a line/divide in the middle of the vents that divide them in half. Getting that half plate in the middle of the vents below the upper vents is the challenge. With the way I have the top vents setup it has limited the way I can arrange and attatch the lower ones. I would like to keep the color the same as the top vents red with black underneath. How do you guys feel about using solid black ribbed bricks to create the vent look? I want to trry to immitate the real thing. Here are pics of the rear section, please comment and thanks in advance...

Progress by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Progress by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Progress by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Progress by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

I will be posting additional pics on flickr tonight. Also there are a lot of other progress pics on my flickr account for others.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Ecclesiastes
please re size pictures to 800x600

[legoman666]

Lookin good so far. I like your top grill, very clean looking. Have you seen mine?

If I rebuilt it, I'd do the nose like I did on this one: Should be easily (?) adaptable to 8w. It is by far the cleanest way to do those beveled edges I ever came up with.

[edsmith0075]

Thanks legoman666, your builds have been a huge inspiration and helpful for me with this train and many others that I am working on. I have liked most of your train pics on flickr as go to images when trying to figure stuff out like with this current es44 build. Your most recent Amtrack engine build looks really good and I am grateful or your detailed pics of the CSX es44 that you built. I'm stuck getting that bottom angled vent inserted into my build. I finally figured out the side grills. Those side grills were a real bugger and I keep looking at what I came up with thinking its gotta be easier and cleaner looking than this. I would like to fit two XL motors in this beast and make it my primary hauler, with the current rear vent design I have no clue how im going to fit those motors in the train.

Well here are the most recent pics and I am stuck, any feedback or pics of advice to get this working out would be great. As always thank you all for the continued support.

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

Untitled by Ed Smith, on Flickr

There are additional pics on my flickr so feel free to check them out as well.

[peterab]

Looking good so far. Sounds like torque from the motor could be twisting your trucks off the rails. Maybe the extra weight of 8 wide can help keep it down.

There is a interesting article in Railbricks which explains this problem. If the torque twists in the wrong direction, the truck will catch on the join of 9V track and derail. The solution is to run in the opposite direction, or reverse the torque by redesigning the truck as suggested.

[legoman666]

I think fitting 2 XL's will be impossible. They are 5 studs wide. The rear of your locomotive is 6w giving you 1/2 stud on each side to work with. If the sides were plain, you could do some trickiness with tile and fit the motors, but with the vents there it will be impossible. I fit a 4 wide AA battery box in the middle of 5 wide sections on my locos, but I do it using tile.

Vertical tile on the side is where the battery box is: &

Horizontal tile on side is where battery box is:

You're trying to do essentially the same thing, fit a X wide object into a space that is X+1 studs wide.

L motors have fantastic torque and speed and are only 3 wide one dimension and 4 wide the other. Each one of my powered locomotives can haul a serious amount of weight; the only thing holding them back from hauling more is lack of traction. I put 2 locos in a push/pull config and I can smoothly move a ~35' train.