Future Castle Sets?

[LegoPercyJ]

I would love that...

[Isundir]

I think that's an awfully narrow-minded way of thinking. LEGO has had many, many types of figure over the years, including the old-school buildable "construction figure" from the Homemaker sets, Fabuland and Jack Stone figs for preschoolers, the articulated Technic figures for older builders, and constraction sets like Bionicle for people who want to build and customize their own action figures. The minifigure has had the most staying power of any type of LEGO figure, but it is not the only figure that is "true LEGO".

Not to mention, some people don't like the minifigure but do like the mini-doll. Are those people somehow unqualified to enjoy LEGO play and building the way City or Ninjago fans do? The minifigure is not the be-all and end-all of the LEGO building and play experience. And as hard as it is for some minifigure-lovers to admit it, the minifigure is not flawless. Its proportions are awkward (as demonstrated by the tremendous challenge of fitting two side-by-side in a six-module-wide vehicle), and its features are far from lifelike. These flaws don't matter to all builders and potential builders, but clearly they do matter to a lot of them. The mini-doll is not flawless either, but to many people the flaws it corrects are more significant than the ones it introduces.

I've been quite impressed with the mini-dolls in the Elves theme. Unlike, say, the Exo-Force minifigures, they actually closely resemble the lifelike art style used to promote the theme. Their outfits also have a great deal of detail that would not be nearly as feasible with minifigures (particularly in terms of shoes and skirts, since minifigure feet are tiny, and minifigures cannot sit down while wearing uniquely shaped skirts).

I get what your saying, but the Minidolls to me feel very out of place like they are part of an entirely different product, and I also believe that the disadvantages of the minidoll are much greater then the advantages. But yeah I do get that some customers prefer the dolls over the minifigs, I was really just expressing my own opinion and didn't mean to sound like I was talking for everybody else if that was the case.

Not this debate again.

MInidolls are not for the established Lego buyers market. Have you ever heard of Polly Pocket? This kind of figure is popular with a certain buying market. The minidoll has been a successful venture for TLG acquiring market share.

I've bought Friends, Disney Princesses, and Elves for parts, but I've also found some uses for the figures. Now if only TLG would release the minidoll parts in LDD. I have an idea on how to use the head for a giant acorn.

Again, I only intended to speak for myself and not all consumers, to me having minifigs to go alongside all the other minifigs would be better but some consumers may only buy into minidoll sets and ignore minifig sets or enjoy both and that's fine, it's just to me a shame that I can't use the minidolls in combination with the minifigs (well I could it just would be weird unless in specific contexts) and I am grateful that the hair pieces of the more recent minidolls are at least compatible with the minifigs.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Isundir

[Wattle-Daub]

I doubt I am the first person to mention this, but I have not noticed it here, and before I begin my laboratory work for the day...I would like to see a massive reboot of the evergreen Castle series along the lines of the City modular sets. What has been really awesome about the City modular buildings is not only the detail, scale, and numbers of minifigures, but also that they are all tied into a single program. This is how I see a reboot of the evergreen Castle series -or- take your pick, medieval fantasy or a Kingdoms continuation (because I cannot be the only person who got SUPER pumped when the Joust set came out with a falcon shield, hoping classic factions were in fact getting a reboot).

Some of this already exists on Ideas in the form of town elements (i.e., Medieval Market, King's Rest Tavern), like some of you have mentioned, but I would suggest that it very well could be done on a larger, more integrative scale. How I am thinking about this is that like City, there exists a line of castle products (or Nexo Knights) for a younger demographic, but that once or twice a year, a large and moderately expensive "modular" set is released. Taken with the right long-term vision, the products would compliment one another to create either a large medieval city with commoner, elite, and specialized buildings -OR- larger castles that reboot the classic factions as component parts of a large kingdom. I grew up on the classic factions and love the detail of Kingdoms, so my mental template for this is of course taking the Kingdoms detail at least one step further. However, a reboot of 2007 Castle with fantasy elements would also work well.

[Aanchir]

I doubt I am the first person to mention this, but I have not noticed it here, and before I begin my laboratory work for the day...I would like to see a massive reboot of the evergreen Castle series along the lines of the City modular sets. What has been really awesome about the City modular buildings is not only the detail, scale, and numbers of minifigures, but also that they are all tied into a single program. This is how I see a reboot of the evergreen Castle series -or- take your pick, medieval fantasy or a Kingdoms continuation (because I cannot be the only person who got SUPER pumped when the Joust set came out with a falcon shield, hoping classic factions were in fact getting a reboot).

Some of this already exists on Ideas in the form of town elements (i.e., Medieval Market, King's Rest Tavern), like some of you have mentioned, but I would suggest that it very well could be done on a larger, more integrative scale. How I am thinking about this is that like City, there exists a line of castle products (or Nexo Knights) for a younger demographic, but that once or twice a year, a large and moderately expensive "modular" set is released. Taken with the right long-term vision, the products would compliment one another to create either a large medieval city with commoner, elite, and specialized buildings -OR- larger castles that reboot the classic factions as component parts of a large kingdom. I grew up on the classic factions and love the detail of Kingdoms, so my mental template for this is of course taking the Kingdoms detail at least one step further. However, a reboot of 2007 Castle with fantasy elements would also work well.

Just to clarify, the Modular Buildings are really more Creator than City (the City theme is generally aimed at an even younger demographic than the Castle theme, and has a very different design philosophy than the Modular Buildings). Nevertheless, I can't pretend I'm not interested in how something like this might turn out. I can imagine design obstacles that might spring up, but I'm sure they're ones the LEGO Group's designers could overcome. And $150+ exclusive castle sets aimed at ages 16+ might be able to come a lot closer to my ideal for "livability" than your typical $100 castle aimed at ages 7+.

My biggest (non-design-related) concern would be that the LEGO Group has already released big exclusive Castle sets like the MMV and Kingdoms Joust, so if they saw a market for exclusives like that on a more frequent basis like the winter village or modular building sets, I think they'd already be releasing them more frequently than what we've been seeing these past several years.

[Murrig Icehammer]

I think the problem with the classic castle theme is, they made the same old sets over and over again for how long? 20 years?

(big castle, smaller bad guy castle, tower, Siege machine, prisoner carriage, and so on)

With the success of ninjago and chima and similar themes over the years i think it was foreseeable they somewhen going to make a castle-techno theme.

The "problem" i see is that there is almost no way to go back to a non-silly castle theme (without the techno nonsense). Classic castle themed sets will never be as "exciting" for the kids as this awful techno-castle theme. Especially if they can make cartoon shows of it. (i still wonder what AFOLs think about this.)

Sure there will be horrible expensive licensed sets, for every next big fantasy movie (if there will ever one).

But i'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to affordable new castle themed or (comparable mild) fantasy themed lego sets in the forseeable future.

Bad time to start caring about lego again, lol.

[Wattle-Daub]

Just to clarify, the Modular Buildings are really more Creator than City (the City theme is generally aimed at an even younger demographic than the Castle theme, and has a very different design philosophy than the Modular Buildings). Nevertheless, I can't pretend I'm not interested in how something like this might turn out. I can imagine design obstacles that might spring up, but I'm sure they're ones the LEGO Group's designers could overcome. And $150+ exclusive castle sets aimed at ages 16+ might be able to come a lot closer to my ideal for "livability" than your typical $100 castle aimed at ages 7+. My biggest (non-design-related) concern would be that the LEGO Group has already released big exclusive Castle sets like the MMV and Kingdoms Joust, so if they saw a market for exclusives like that on a more frequent basis like the winter village or modular building sets, I think they'd already be releasing them more frequently than what we've been seeing these past several years.

Right. I should have clarified with "Creator" versus "Modular/City" but it is the design philosophy that I have in mind (e.g., having a parallel Castle theme to Creator Historical exclusives), but I think we are on the same page here (as well as with the market testing issues you raise).

Edited October 22, 2015 by Wattle-Daub

[Aanchir]

I think the problem with the classic castle theme is, they made the same old sets over and over again for how long? 20 years?

(big castle, smaller bad guy castle, tower, Siege machine, prisoner carriage, and so on)

With the success of ninjago and chima and similar themes over the years i think it was foreseeable they somewhen going to make a castle-techno theme.

The "problem" i see is that there is almost no way to go back to a non-silly castle theme (without the techno nonsense). Classic castle themed sets will never be as "exciting" for the kids as this awful techno-castle theme. Especially if they can make cartoon shows of it. (i still wonder what AFOLs think about this.)

About what specifically? LEGO themes having their own cartoons? This AFOL, at least, is all for it.

When I was a kid, I enjoyed LEGO on many levels. Sure, I made up my own models and my own characters and my own stories. I wasn't afraid to turn my Aquasharks into mermaids by replacing their legs with slope bricks. And I did buy some LEGO sets that had no explicit story behind them whatsoever. But I was also a kid who loved storytelling. I relished in any short stories or character bios that showed up in my LEGO Mania Magazine, even though most of them had more cheesy jokes than substance. Even the original Castle, Space, and Aquazone factions I came up with MOCs and custom minifigures of all had to have a full cast of named characters — they simply didn't measure up to the official themes I loved if they didn't!

When Bionicle came out, the first theme with a fully realized mythos rather than just a broad premise, it fired up my imagination like no theme before it, and before long I was drawing my own Kanohi masks, building my own Rahi beasts, coming up with elaborate stories about the Toa's quest to defeat the Bohrok swarms. Bionicle is what drew me into the online LEGO fan community — my dad had helped me download custom building instructions from sites like Lugnet in the past, but the creativity I had seen there was nothing compared to the MOCs, fan art, fan fiction, and role-play I saw on sites like BZPower.

These days, my three favorite themes are Bionicle, Ninjago, and Elves. All three themes take place in magical, invented worlds, not pre-existing historical or mythological settings. Nexo Knights might join them if the story can prove fun and engaging. Now, that doesn't mean I don't think there's a place for more grounded and less story-driven themes. LEGO City strikes me as the "foundation" of the minifigure world, since it shows what the world we see in our everyday lives is like when translated into LEGO. Themes like Castle and Pirates continue to charm me with the ways they continue to build on classic LEGO archetypes. And themes like Creator and Classic represent the LEGO spirit of creativity at its core, demonstrating the versatility of basic bricks again and again. But none of these are the kind of themes I'm drawn to collect or build with. They don't inspire me the same way each year of new Bionicle or Ninjago sets does.

I do not necessarily agree that there's "no going back". LEGO City and LEGO Friends, two themes largely grounded in real life, are some of the LEGO Group's top-selling non-licensed themes, though I'm sure a part of that stems from their modern, "everyday" relatability, something LEGO Castle can never really achieve. Products aimed at younger buyers such as LEGO Juniors and LEGO Duplo still seem to explore themes without any kind of genre-mashing. And sets aimed at AFOLs like the Medieval Market Village, the Haunted House, and the Temple of Airjitzu are all a lot more grounded and traditional in their scope than the rest of the sets from the themes they're a part of (Fantasy Era, Monster Fighters, Ninjago).

Even if the LEGO Group could have a cartoon and app for every one of their product lines, I don't think they would, because that would put unnecessary limits on the audience for those themes. As I've pointed out before, Ninjago, Legends of Chima, and Nexo Knights are all aimed at more or less the same 7–14 age range, and the TV shows all seem to carry the same Y7 rating due to fantasy violence. Nexo Knights is launching in the wake of TWO other 7–14 "action themes" ending — the app-driven Ultra Agents and the cartoon-driven Legends of Chima. As I see it, it's much more of a replacement for those two already media-driven themes than it is for less media-driven 5–12 themes like Castle and Pirates. So I don't think it makes sense to say the LEGO Group is increasing their focus on the 7–14 age bracket or media-driven marketing. They're just filling a void.

[x105Black]

if they saw a market for exclusives like that on a more frequent basis like the winter village or modular building sets, I think they'd already be releasing them more frequently than what we've been seeing these past several years.

Just because they don't see a market, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Nexo Knights is launching in the wake of TWO other 7–14 "action themes" ending — the app-driven Ultra Agents and the cartoon-driven Legends of Chima. As I see it, it's much more of a replacement for those two already media-driven themes than it is for less media-driven 5–12 themes like Castle and Pirates. So I don't think it makes sense to say the LEGO Group is increasing their focus on the 7–14 age bracket or media-driven marketing. They're just filling a void.

I don't see why Castle and Pirates have to be targeted to the 5-12 age range. I feel that this is limiting. I would personally love to see Castle and Pirate sets released to a broad range of age brackets, including not only the 5-12 and 7-14 ranges, but Juniors (which they both had last wave) and 16+ (which is the highest they seem to rate sets). I would say skew higher, 11+.

[Murrig Icehammer]

About what specifically? LEGO themes having their own cartoons? This AFOL, at least, is all for it.

When I was a kid, I enjoyed LEGO on many levels. Sure, I made up my own models and my own characters and my own stories. I wasn't afraid to turn my Aquasharks into mermaids by replacing their legs with slope bricks. And I did buy some LEGO sets that had no explicit story behind them whatsoever. But I was also a kid who loved storytelling. I relished in any short stories or character bios that showed up in my LEGO Mania Magazine, even though most of them had more cheesy jokes than substance. Even the original Castle, Space, and Aquazone factions I came up with MOCs and custom minifigures of all had to have a full cast of named characters — they simply didn't measure up to the official themes I loved if they didn't!

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Snip because of length

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I do not necessarily agree that there's "no going back". LEGO City and LEGO Friends, two themes largely grounded in real life, are some of the LEGO Group's top-selling non-licensed themes, though I'm sure a part of that stems from their modern, "everyday" relatability, something LEGO Castle can never really achieve. Products aimed at younger buyers such as LEGO Juniors and LEGO Duplo still seem to explore themes without any kind of genre-mashing. And sets aimed at AFOLs like the Medieval Market Village, the Haunted House, and the Temple of Airjitzu are all a lot more grounded and traditional in their scope than the rest of the sets from the themes they're a part of (Fantasy Era, Monster Fighters, Ninjago).

Sady the adult oriented sets like Medieval Makret Village and similar things are just (expensive) exceptions. And even the Temple is based on Ninjago.

Don't get me wrong i'm not against Lego Cartoons, i'm simply not interested in it.

I think they can't expect every AFOL to watch their cartoons only to understand what they are about and what's going on. You see i think these themes are too narrowing and restricting, even if you don't intend to immerge to it. It's like buying Star Wars sets without ever have seen one movie, you can do that of course, but it doesn't make much sense if you don't know what's going on and what everything is about.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Murrig Icehammer

[Blakstone]

Traditionally, we have had to have the smaller sets in order to get new molds and prints for a theme. The Simpson's gave us the first glimpse that the cost of producing new molds may have come down enough for a Direct to Consumer (D2C) set to have one.

I would be very pleased if LEGO had a yearly D2C historic build. They wouldn't need to be modular like the old downtown modulars that come once a year. I could envision a watchtower, an inn with stables, and a large windmill each in the $150 range. Thematically they would work together without the technic pins literally holding them side by side.

LEGO already has a few types of D2C sets that show up once a year: Modular Downtown, Winter Village, Vehicles, and Fairgrounds. Hopefully they will find room in their calendar for a yearly Castle / historic D2C. I would "settle" for a yearly Lord of the Rings set though.

If the Temple of Airjitsu sells well enough, perhaps that will show LEGO that there is a demand for historic flavored D2C sets.

[x105Black]

If the Temple of Airjitsu sells well enough, perhaps that will show LEGO that there is a demand for historic flavored D2C sets.

It would only show then that large expensive sets based on their television shows are in demand. They don't seem to always know how to interpret their sales data.

[Blakstone]

For the few that are not already watching the Series 15 CMF thread, there is supposed to be two Castle minifigs: Queen and Scary / Evil Knight. There are also some fantasy ones that might work for us as well: satyr (already reported) and flying warrior. I hope the flying warrior is a valkyrie.

[dyntar]

Thought I'd add my 5 cents. I must say that the Nexo knights are making the 2013 castle sets look so much better lol.

I have every castle set from 1984- when the batlords appeared.. and everything from 2005 onwards. With the latest Castle sets being Nexo knights and having a tv show all I can hope is that after the first 2 seasons they start going more classic.. After looking at Ninjago the first sets looked pretty bad, ugly vehicles vs skeletons. But after the first series they started to put in more traditional buildings into the sets. I can only hope that they do the same with Nexo... and maybe an evil villain arises in series 3 and destroys all technology so that they have to go back to more traditional ways. at least then there will be parts that i can use. Look at the Ninjago AirJitzu Temple its awesome and the only high tech part in it is a microchip printed on a tile hidden in a box in the roof. Concidering it came from a tv series about classic characters vs hightech who knows maybe we could get an awesome classic castle from Nexo. its possible :D

Still annoyed they used the Falcons heraldry on Nexo.. It should have remained untarnished.

Or failing that do another Vampire Castle and Monster Hunters theme.

[MAB]

Just to clarify, the Modular Buildings are really more Creator than City (the City theme is generally aimed at an even younger demographic than the Castle theme, and has a very different design philosophy than the Modular Buildings). Nevertheless, I can't pretend I'm not interested in how something like this might turn out. I can imagine design obstacles that might spring up, but I'm sure they're ones the LEGO Group's designers could overcome. And $150+ exclusive castle sets aimed at ages 16+ might be able to come a lot closer to my ideal for "livability" than your typical $100 castle aimed at ages 7+.

Although more recent modulars have had more play features in them than the older ones used to. So for example the bank has the robber coming down the chute into the bank, and the ability to launder money through a washing machine into the bank. So the lines are being blurred between city (as play sets) and modulars (as display sets). A large castle with a few built in play features would probably sell well to older kids but still be interesting enough to adults (which pretty much describes what the creator / modular sets are becoming). Ewok Village in SW is again similar, interesting enough for adults, even though it is really a large play set, with its built in play features.

Edited October 23, 2015 by MAB

[Aanchir]

Just because they don't see a market, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

They have the sales data for sets like Medieval Market Village, Castle Giant Chess Set, Kingdoms Joust, and Tower of Orthanc, as well as for Castle sets in general. They have feedback from AFOL surveys, LEGO Customer Service calls, and other support channels. We don't have any of those things. If they're not qualified to determine how big a market there is for Castle exclusives, then who is?

I don't know of any LEGO fans who collect quantitative data on how big the LEGO Castle community is or what percentage of that community buys the big exclusive sets. It'd be really cool if the LEGO community did more research into what sets and themes AFOLs buy (like how the brony community has its own yearly census and ethnographic study), and it could potentially increase our community's persuasive power if fans got together to conduct this kind of research, but as it is, the LEGO Group holds a lot more cards than we do.

I don't see why Castle and Pirates have to be targeted to the 5-12 age range. I feel that this is limiting. I would personally love to see Castle and Pirate sets released to a broad range of age brackets, including not only the 5-12 and 7-14 ranges, but Juniors (which they both had last wave) and 16+ (which is the highest they seem to rate sets). I would say skew higher, 11+.

Right now, LEGO has the 7–14 age range covered with other themes like Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, and Star Wars. I personally see more potential for growth in themes like Castle and Pirates at the 5–12 age range (which is mostly only occupied by City and Friends, two non-fantasy themes) than the 7–14 age range. That's not to say Castle COULDN'T be aimed at the 7–14 age range, just that it seems like it'd (currently) have more competing against it in that bracket. And that's also not to say the situation couldn't change in the future, but I don't think anybody hoping for the return of LEGO Castle prefers to just wait around for those other themes to end.

And when I'm talking about a core audience for a theme, I'm not denying the possibility for big exclusive sets aimed at older audiences or Juniors sets aimed at younger audience. This year Ninjago got a 14+ exclusive, and next year they're going to be getting two 4–7 Juniors sets, despite the theme as a whole having a 7–14 core audience. Any successful Castle theme could probably manage both of those things as well, no matter what core audience it's aimed at. Except, of course, if it's based on an external IP that isn't appropriate for 4-year-olds.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Aanchir

[Blakstone]

There is indeed a new dress piece used for the Queen in Series 15.

[x105Black]

Look at the Ninjago AirJitzu Temple its awesome and the only high tech part in it is a microchip printed on a tile hidden in a box in the roof.

It's pretty awesome, definitely. My friend got it, and it is certainly a great set. But put it next to the Creator Expert Modulars, and it looks kind of junky by comparison. It's not even in the same league. What I'm hoping Castle gets is something more like the Modulars, beyond what the Ninjago Temple brought about. Maybe something like the Temple could be good for Nexo Knights as a 14+ set, but I'm hoping Castle gets something in the 16+ range.

They have the sales data for sets like Medieval Market Village, Castle Giant Chess Set, Kingdoms Joust, and Tower of Orthanc, as well as for Castle sets in general. They have feedback from AFOL surveys, LEGO Customer Service calls, and other support channels. We don't have any of those things. If they're not qualified to determine how big a market there is for Castle exclusives, then who is?

I don't know of any LEGO fans who collect quantitative data on how big the LEGO Castle community is or what percentage of that community buys the big exclusive sets. It'd be really cool if the LEGO community did more research into what sets and themes AFOLs buy (like how the brony community has its own yearly census and ethnographic study), and it could potentially increase our community's persuasive power if fans got together to conduct this kind of research, but as it is, the LEGO Group holds a lot more cards than we do.

I'm sure there are gaps in their information. I'm not saying we know more than they do, just that they don't know everything, and that they may not see a market where there actually may be one. I agree, though, it would be great to see the LEGO community come together to provide our own data.

Right now, LEGO has the 7–14 age range covered with other themes like Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, and Star Wars. I personally see more potential for growth in themes like Castle and Pirates at the 5–12 age range (which is mostly only occupied by City and Friends, two non-fantasy themes) than the 7–14 age range. That's not to say Castle COULDN'T be aimed at the 7–14 age range, just that it seems like it'd (currently) have more competing against it in that bracket. And that's also not to say the situation couldn't change in the future, but I don't think anybody hoping for the return of LEGO Castle prefers to just wait around for those other themes to end.

And when I'm talking about a core audience for a theme, I'm not denying the possibility for big exclusive sets aimed at older audiences or Juniors sets aimed at younger audience. This year Ninjago got a 14+ exclusive, and next year they're going to be getting two 4–7 Juniors sets, despite the theme as a whole having a 7–14 core audience. Any successful Castle theme could probably manage both of those things as well, no matter what core audience it's aimed at. Except, of course, if it's based on an external IP that isn't appropriate for 4-year-olds.

They didn't have to make Nexo Knights. They could have increased the age range of Castle to cover that age range.

Again, I don't get why the themes in the 7-14 range have to be these 'media driven' action adventure themes. But if that's the case, a good quality medieval television show could have worked.

[Isundir]

I doubt I am the first person to mention this, but I have not noticed it here, and before I begin my laboratory work for the day...I would like to see a massive reboot of the evergreen Castle series along the lines of the City modular sets. What has been really awesome about the City modular buildings is not only the detail, scale, and numbers of minifigures, but also that they are all tied into a single program. This is how I see a reboot of the evergreen Castle series -or- take your pick, medieval fantasy or a Kingdoms continuation (because I cannot be the only person who got SUPER pumped when the Joust set came out with a falcon shield, hoping classic factions were in fact getting a reboot).

Some of this already exists on Ideas in the form of town elements (i.e., Medieval Market, King's Rest Tavern), like some of you have mentioned, but I would suggest that it very well could be done on a larger, more integrative scale. How I am thinking about this is that like City, there exists a line of castle products (or Nexo Knights) for a younger demographic, but that once or twice a year, a large and moderately expensive "modular" set is released. Taken with the right long-term vision, the products would compliment one another to create either a large medieval city with commoner, elite, and specialized buildings -OR- larger castles that reboot the classic factions as component parts of a large kingdom. I grew up on the classic factions and love the detail of Kingdoms, so my mental template for this is of course taking the Kingdoms detail at least one step further. However, a reboot of 2007 Castle with fantasy elements would also work well.

Have you seen my signature yet?

[x105Black]

Have you seen my signature yet?

You say "I for one would love it if LEGO released Historical Creator Expert Sets, hint hint."

We're going to end up with a massive Western set, but still no Castle.

[Aanchir]

It's pretty awesome, definitely. My friend got it, and it is certainly a great set. But put it next to the Creator Expert Modulars, and it looks kind of junky by comparison. It's not even in the same league. What I'm hoping Castle gets is something more like the Modulars, beyond what the Ninjago Temple brought about. Maybe something like the Temple could be good for Nexo Knights as a 14+ set, but I'm hoping Castle gets something in the 16+ range.

How does it look "junky"? I mean, I understand that it is made to look antique and rural, not clean and urban like the modulars or even the Medieval Market Village, but that seems to me more a result of its choice of subject and the design language of the Ninjago theme as a whole, not its target age range. I think a future Castle exclusive is likely to be impressive whether it's aimed at 12+, 14+, or 16+.

They didn't have to make Nexo Knights. They could have increased the age range of Castle to cover that age range.

Again, I don't get why the themes in the 7-14 range have to be these 'media driven' action adventure themes. But if that's the case, a good quality medieval television show could have worked.

As I've mentioned, Ninjago, Chima, and probably Nexo Knights have a Y7-FV rating for their cartoons in the United States. This is generally the minimum rating for a cartoon that includes fantasy violence. It'd be tough for LEGO to create a media-driven theme for any sort of high- or medium-conflict theme for kids younger than seven, so that's where they start the core age range for action-adventure themes they want media support for. That leaves the younger age bracket open for themes with either less conflict (Friends, Mixels) or less media support (City, Pirates, Castle).

And it seems to me like Nexo Knights falling into the action-adventure category is really a consequence of what it's replacing. Castle theme or not, it seems like its main purpose is to fill the void that Legends of Chima and Ultra Agents left behind, since those are two high-profile themes ending this year. So Nexo Knights is being directed at a similar audience to those themes, using similar media strategies. Contrast with the 2013 Castle range, which coexisted with Ninjago, Chima, and Ultra Agents. That theme made sense as a more traditional theme since it had to set itself apart from those themes, rather than try and fill their shoes.

Could there be a more "grounded" theme with a full cartoon supporting it? Well, that's a bit tougher to determine. TV networks like Cartoon Network are going to want more of what they've seen LEGO pull off successfully, and so far, that's action-adventure themes. Which isn't surprising — these kinds of cartoons tend to be the most successful with kids in general, not just with LEGO fans. When's the last time you saw a grounded, historically authentic cartoon become a media and merchandising phenomenon?

The LEGO Group is a leader in the toy industry, but they're relatively new to TV storytelling. But this is an industry that other toymakers like Mattel and Hasbro have been dabbling in for over a quarter of a century. So there's a lot of precedent for not just what kind of cartoons kids go crazy for, but what kinds of cartoons actually sell toys. If LEGO does make a cartoon based on one of their more "grounded" themes, they're probably not going to start with a full TV season. I'd expect them to start with one or more TV specials like they had when they launched LEGO Atlantis, LEGO Hero Factory, LEGO Ninjago, LEGO Friends, and LEGO Elves. There just isn't enough precedent to bet on such a cartoon being a "hit" like there would be with a theme in the same genre as Ninjago or Legends of Chima.

You say "I for one would love it if LEGO released Historical Creator Expert Sets, hint hint."

We're going to end up with a massive Western set, but still no Castle.

I don't think that'd be something to complain about. Castle may not be at the peak of its popularity, but it's been treated a lot better over the years than Western has. And I think the Castle theme's prospects for the future are a lot brighter than the Western theme's. Again, it has more precedent working in its favor. The Western theme has had two iterations: one was in the late 90s when the LEGO Group was on a steep decline, and one was a recent licensed theme tied to a movie that bombed. Castle, on the other hand, has been a mainstay of the LEGO Group's product offerings for decades. Hardly a year has gone by without at least one licensed or unlicensed Castle theme. So if LEGO decided to give the Western theme a bit of attention for a change, I think that'd be a pleasant surprise.

[kouz-one]

I think that adults love more the castle themes than children do....

But the popular themes of this audience today (witcher / ASOIF) are quite violent, which is not really compatible with the lego group strategy

I am very curious to see the sales of the "fantasy era" line, compared to the other castle lines. Cause it clearly was so much better than the other lines we got over the time IMHO.

If they want a success Castle line, I strongly think they need FANTASY or mythology, to piqued interest.

Edited October 24, 2015 by kouz-one

[x105Black]

I think that adults love more the castle themes than children do....

But the popular themes of this audience today (witcher / ASOIF) are quite violent, which is not really compatible with the lego group strategy

I am very curious to see the sales of the "fantasy era" line, compared to the other castle lines. Cause it clearly was so much better than the other lines we got over the time IMHO.

If they want a success Castle line, I strongly think they need FANTASY or mythology, to piqued interest.

I agree. Most current medieval fantasy media is aimed much higher in age than LEGO would want to aim towards. They're mostly 'Mature' rated franchises. So there is definitely appeal for adult audiences there.

There is a lot of precedent in the past for more broad appeal in medieval fantasy. Heck, I'd say most Disney Princess movies (Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty...) are in the realm of medieval fantasy, and there are more non-princess movies (The Black Cauldron, The Sword and the Stone, Robin Hood) that fit in that category as well. So there is definitely appeal for younger audiences there.

A nice traditional medieval fantasy Castle theme would be great, and I think it would appeal to a wider demographic than futuristic cyber Castle (aimed at young children) or completely historical medieval Castle (aimed at older teens and adults). Done well, it could be the best theme they've done (of course, that's my opinion as a Castle fan). But they'd have to really invest in doing so, and I don't think they have the gumption.

How does it look "junky"? I mean, I understand that it is made to look antique and rural, not clean and urban like the modulars or even the Medieval Market Village, but that seems to me more a result of its choice of subject and the design language of the Ninjago theme as a whole, not its target age range. I think a future Castle exclusive is likely to be impressive whether it's aimed at 12+, 14+, or 16+.

It just has a weaker design aesthetic. It's not a complete structure like the Modulars, and there is much less detail. It also feels much shorter. Even though the temple section is quite tall, it feels like it should be much taller in comparison to the Modulars. I understand it's not done to that level because that's not the type of set it is, but that's the point. I would want something done to the level of the Modulars in a Castle theme, rather than something done to the level of the Ninjago Temple. But again, it's a really nice set, so I'm not dissing the set itself. I'm just saying it's not the greatest, especially when compared to those Expert level buildings.

I don't think that'd be something to complain about. Castle may not be at the peak of its popularity, but it's been treated a lot better over the years than Western has. And I think the Castle theme's prospects for the future are a lot brighter than the Western theme's. Again, it has more precedent working in its favor. The Western theme has had two iterations: one was in the late 90s when the LEGO Group was on a steep decline, and one was a recent licensed theme tied to a movie that bombed. Castle, on the other hand, has been a mainstay of the LEGO Group's product offerings for decades. Hardly a year has gone by without at least one licensed or unlicensed Castle theme. So if LEGO decided to give the Western theme a bit of attention for a change, I think that'd be a pleasant surprise.

There may be a good point there, but I really don't even feel Castle and Western belong in the same category. Sure, they're both Historic themes, but they're from such vastly different parts of history that they are really worlds apart.

Edited October 24, 2015 by x105Black

[SerenityInFire]

I honestly think LEGO could do The Elder Scrolls. Oblivion and Skyrim are quite tame for M rated games, and the first three games were rated Teen, as well as the spin-off games. The possibilities for sets would be endless.

[Aanchir]

I agree. Most current medieval fantasy media is aimed much higher in age than LEGO would want to aim towards. They're mostly 'Mature' rated franchises. So there is definitely appeal for adult audiences there.

That's a problem I see affecting other genres these days as well. There are still quite a few Westerns being produced, for instance, but so many of these are aimed at adult audiences. The Lone Ranger reboot was clearly meant to revive the family-friendly western genre the same way Pirates of the Caribbean did for pirate movies, but obviously it didn't succeed at that task. I respect the LEGO Group for betting on it anyway, since if it had succeeded it would have been a good property for them, and now that it hasn't it's unlikely the genre will have the pop culture resonance it needs to support a full LEGO Western range in the foreseeable future. You're absolutely right that medieval fantasy has a much better track record for resonating with kids.

It just has a weaker design aesthetic. It's not a complete structure like the Modulars, and there is much less detail. It also feels much shorter. Even though the temple section is quite tall, it feels like it should be much taller in comparison to the Modulars. I understand it's not done to that level because that's not the type of set it is, but that's the point. I would want something done to the level of the Modulars in a Castle theme, rather than something done to the level of the Ninjago Temple. But again, it's a really nice set, so I'm not dissing the set itself. I'm just saying it's not the greatest, especially when compared to those Expert level buildings.

Alright, I get what you're saying. I personally don't think that things like a set's scale or whether they have an open back make certain sets weaker or stronger. It's just a difference in how you expect the sets to be used and displayed. However, you're right that it would be nice for an exclusive castle to be bigger and more solid.

I've seen the size of the Temple of Airjitzu criticized before, but that has less to do with its theme or age range than its three-building layout (which it shares with Town Plan and Diagon Alley). If an actual castle were released for that same price point and that same age range, I could even see it being bigger than the Temple of Airjitzu's three buildings put together, like Tower of Orthanc. If you don't have three separate buildings, you don't need three separate color schemes and architectural styles, so you can use more of the same bricks throughout the model. And that kind of efficiency helps bring down the overall price. Plus, for an actual castle you don't need all those tiny individual windows, so you could easily swap those with larger bricks. It only takes two 1x8 bricks to fill the same space as four 1x2x2 windows and just as many window frames.

There may be a good point there, but I really don't even feel Castle and Western belong in the same category. Sure, they're both Historic themes, but they're from such vastly different parts of history that they are really worlds apart.

That's fair. I don't really consider them the same category myself. Eurobricks forum categories are functional, but they can be kinda weird sometimes.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Aanchir

[MAB]

Do American kids play cowboys and Indians still? It's not very common in the UK these days. I used to in the 1970s back when the Milky Bar Kid was popular, but rarely see kids playing it these days. I don't know if that is due to the more modern views about Native Americans / American Indians. Whereas kids here do play knights, I've taken mine to quite a few knights and princess parties over the years.