Future Castle Sets?

[Lyichir]

In case any of you were looking at the Elves sets as a potential source for medieval/fantasy parts, Kmart has pictures and descriptions for all six of the sets due out this March:

41171 Emily Jones and the Baby Wind Dragon

41172 The Water Dragon Adventure

41173 Elvendale School of Dragons

41174 The Starlight Inn

41175 Fire Dragon's Lava Cave

41176 The Secret Market Place

[Airbenderfreak]

In case any of you were looking at the Elves sets as a potential source for medieval/fantasy parts, Kmart has pictures and descriptions for all six of the sets due out this March:

41171 Emily Jones and the Baby Wind Dragon

41172 The Water Dragon Adventure

41173 Elvendale School of Dragons

41174 The Starlight Inn

41175 Fire Dragon's Lava Cave

41176 The Secret Market Place

I think with a little modding the Starlight Inn could fit in a medieval setting! The bay window does remind me of the one on the tavern in the beloved Medieval Market Village!

Edited January 18, 2016 by Airbenderfreak

[Sorrelon]

In case any of you were looking at the Elves sets as a potential source for medieval/fantasy parts, Kmart has pictures and descriptions for all six of the sets due out this March:

41171 Emily Jones and the Baby Wind Dragon

41172 The Water Dragon Adventure

41173 Elvendale School of Dragons

41174 The Starlight Inn

41175 Fire Dragon's Lava Cave

41176 The Secret Market Place

Thanks for sharing the pictures!

Inn and marketplace look like they have some potential. I totally liked the new style book with a dragon on its cover, also the shield in the marketplace looks great as well.

I don't know why, but that shield reminds me of the famous mirrorshield from Legend of Zelda series. I'll be sure to get a few of it.

The dragon egg in the baby dragon set seems nice, I'll probably get it. There is an hourglass in the school of dragons set! I waited for an hourglass piece for so long, at this point, I don't even mind the pink sand inside it. Also, as far as I know, the crossbow in that set is the only crossbow besides NK and SW sets that can actually shoot. Besides, this one looks like it is the most suitable one for historical themes. I wonder if it could be modified to shoot 18041 harpoon pieces instead of 1x1 round tiles?

[Ql97]

In case any of you were looking at the Elves sets as a potential source for medieval/fantasy parts, Kmart has pictures and descriptions for all six of the sets due out this March:

41171 Emily Jones and the Baby Wind Dragon

41172 The Water Dragon Adventure

41173 Elvendale School of Dragons

41174 The Starlight Inn

41175 Fire Dragon's Lava Cave

41176 The Secret Market Place

*sigh* I find it both depressing and amusing that Elves is shaping up to be a better Castle theme than the "official" one.

[x105Black]

*sigh* I find it both depressing and amusing that Elves is shaping up to be a better Castle theme than the "official" one.

I completely agree.

I wish we could take the best parts of Elves and Nexo Knights, and throw out the cutesy and techno, to make 1 great theme.

[Aanchir]

I completely agree.

I wish we could take the best parts of Elves and Nexo Knights, and throw out the cutesy and techno, to make 1 great theme.

Why would you throw out the best parts of both themes?

I'm kidding, sort of. I'm not sure if the cutesiness of Elves or the techno-ness of Nexo Knights are really their "best parts". Both themes have a lot of good qualities. However, I do think both those themes are better and more unique with those traits than without. You'd be taking away part of what makes those themes special in favor of making them ordinary. And we've had "ordinary" Castle time and time again, decade after decade. I think it's only fair to let the weird and wacky and wonderful themes have their turn. And if that can't happen without "ordinary" castle going on hiatus, then no better time than now when ordinary castle is already in the middle of a hiatus anyway.

I could understand all the hand-wringing if an ongoing Castle theme got canned to make room for Elves or Nexo Knights, but that's not what happened here. Castle had two very grounded themes in relatively quick succession and then just sort of petered out. Once Nexo Knights is over then a more ordinary Castle theme can have its turn again, just like what happened with Knights' Kingdom II. Pirates and Western fans have survived far longer than this without new sets, and during each of those themes' hiatus fans didn't even have options like LEGO Ideas at their disposal.

[Airbenderfreak]

I could understand all the hand-wringing if an ongoing Castle theme got canned to make room for Elves or Nexo Knights, but that's not what happened here. Castle had two very grounded themes in relatively quick succession and then just sort of petered out. Once Nexo Knights is over then a more ordinary Castle theme can have its turn again, just like what happened with Knights' Kingdom II. Pirates and Western fans have survived far longer than this without new sets, and during each of those themes' hiatus fans didn't even have options like LEGO Ideas at their disposal.

But Nexo Kinghts is supposed to be a "big bang" theme, as in it is supposed to have many waves and run for many years. I know Chima was a "big bang" theme and it only lasted two years, but people hated Chima. Most people love Nexo Knights, so by the time another castle theme should be expected, Nexo Knights will be in its fifth or sixth wave, and LEGO won't want two separate castle lines at the same time, even if they are completely different.

[BrickJagger]

But Nexo Kinghts is supposed to be a "big bang" theme, as in it is supposed to have many waves and run for many years. I know Chima was a "big bang" theme and it only lasted two years, but people hated Chima. Most people love Nexo Knights, so by the time another castle theme should be expected, Nexo Knights will be in its fifth or sixth wave, and LEGO won't want two separate castle lines at the same time, even if they are completely different.

Chima lasted for three years and had six waves.

I'm so sorry, I can't help myself.

Nexo is different enough from *the other* Castle themes for there to be a new *traditional* Castle theme running *co-currently* with it. It doesn't have to be something big, in fact Lego would probably put out a small theme like Castle 2013 that people (who like knight visors from 1978) would enjoy to hold them over until the the almighty "regular" Castle returns.

Edited January 19, 2016 by BrickJagger

[Airbenderfreak]

I was disappointed that after waiting two years Castle only got one wave, then after waiting three years we got Nexo Knights. Don't get me wrong, I love Nexo Knights, but nothing can replace traditional castle. I hope the next castle theme is a revival of Kingdoms, as I prefer it to Castle. I agree with you that there is no problem have two "co-current" castle themes as long as they are as different as Nexo Knights is to traditional castle.

[x105Black]

Why would you throw out the best parts of both themes?

I'm kidding, sort of. I'm not sure if the cutesiness of Elves or the techno-ness of Nexo Knights are really their "best parts". Both themes have a lot of good qualities. However, I do think both those themes are better and more unique with those traits than without. You'd be taking away part of what makes those themes special in favor of making them ordinary. And we've had "ordinary" Castle time and time again, decade after decade. I think it's only fair to let the weird and wacky and wonderful themes have their turn. And if that can't happen without "ordinary" castle going on hiatus, then no better time than now when ordinary castle is already in the middle of a hiatus anyway.

I could understand all the hand-wringing if an ongoing Castle theme got canned to make room for Elves or Nexo Knights, but that's not what happened here. Castle had two very grounded themes in relatively quick succession and then just sort of petered out. Once Nexo Knights is over then a more ordinary Castle theme can have its turn again, just like what happened with Knights' Kingdom II. Pirates and Western fans have survived far longer than this without new sets, and during each of those themes' hiatus fans didn't even have options like LEGO Ideas at their disposal.

Unique? Certainly. Better? Hardly. Weird and Wacky? Absolutely. Wonderful? Debatable.

And LEGO could easily do a Castle theme that isn't ordinary. We've been over that already. They could do Forestmen or Wolfpack (or similar) without it feeling like a retread of the last several Castle waves. They could battle the lava creatures of the Nexo Knights (or the plant-themed villains seen in some books) without being techno knights, and it would work brilliantly. They could do Elves with minifigures and the standard dragons rather then cutesy brick-built dragons (or create a new molded dragon). They could do them all at the same time, actually. All of these would feel fresh and original in comparison to previous Castle waves.

I think LEGO chose to have Castle peter out in favor of Big Bang "Castle" themes like Nexo Knights and Elves. So in a way, they did can Castle to make way for those themes. Waiting for Nexo Knights to end would take too long.

Also, Pirates and Western are a completely different discussion altogether, and I believe that there are complaints from the fans of those themes about the wait as well.

Nexo is different enough from *the other* Castle themes for there to be a new *traditional* Castle theme running *co-currently* with it. It doesn't have to be something big, in fact Lego would probably put out a small theme like Castle 2013 that people (who like knight visors from 1978) would enjoy to hold them over until the the almighty "regular" Castle returns.

Hey, 1978 visors are great!

I think that Nexo Knights is significantly different, and it would be fantastic if they did a traditional Castle theme at the same time as Nexo Knights. Even a small wave would be welcome. I would hope that they would spend a good deal of time with it, making it appealing to those who enjoy the traditional Castle themes.

...nothing can replace traditional castle. I hope the next castle theme is a revival of Kingdoms, as I prefer it to Castle. I agree with you that there is no problem have two "co-current" castle themes as long as they are as different as Nexo Knights is to traditional castle.

Kingdoms is actually better than Castle in that it seems to skew a little older (in design aesthetic). A new Kingdoms theme would be wonderful. I preferred the newest black and red Dragon knights in color scheme to the Kingdoms green Dragon knights, but overall I liked Kingdoms a lot.

[Aanchir]

But Nexo Kinghts is supposed to be a "big bang" theme, as in it is supposed to have many waves and run for many years. I know Chima was a "big bang" theme and it only lasted two years, but people hated Chima. Most people love Nexo Knights, so by the time another castle theme should be expected, Nexo Knights will be in its fifth or sixth wave, and LEGO won't want two separate castle lines at the same time, even if they are completely different.

As BrickJagger points out, Chima lasted three years. But lasting many years is not an inherent quality of a "big bang" theme. LEGO Atlantis was a "big bang" theme and lasted just a year and a half (two years in North America, but only due to the final wave being split into two). LEGO Ninjago was a "big bang" theme as well, and it was only intended to last two and a half years — the only reason LEGO revived it in 2014 is because Ninjago turned out to be ridiculously popular.

I also don't think it's fair to say "most people hated Chima" — it seems to have been very popular with its target demographic, at least in Europe. But it's interesting for you to say "most people love Nexo Knights". I wouldn't have expected to hear that in this topic of all places, and frankly (even as a fan of the theme) I think it's way too early to be saying anything like that. Some AFOLs love it, some AFOLs hate it, but AFOLs aren't its target audience. What will decide its fate is how well it appeals to kids, and all I've heard about that so far are a few scattered anecdotes from AFOLs who are also parents.

And LEGO could easily do a Castle theme that isn't ordinary. We've been over that already. They could do Forestmen or Wolfpack (or similar) without it feeling like a retread of the last several Castle waves. They could battle the lava creatures of the Nexo Knights (or the plant-themed villains seen in some books) without being techno knights, and it would work brilliantly. They could do Elves with minifigures and the standard dragons rather then cutesy brick-built dragons (or create a new molded dragon). They could do them all at the same time, actually. All of these would feel fresh and original in comparison to previous Castle waves.

They also generally sound like bad ideas. Forestmen and Wolfpack were never popular enough to support more than a handful of sets as an offshoot of the main knight factions, and I don't see any reason why they would be more successful today when tales of Robin Hood-style highway banditry haven't had a lot of pop culture currency in years. If a theme of actual knights can't sustain more than a couple consecutive waves, then I hardly think a theme based on their more obscure contemporaries would fare much better.

Likewise, replacing the brick-built Elves dragons with more specialized molded ones would be a very definite step backwards. Putting aside nostalgia for "how things used to be", you're basically asking for the current Elves sets but with more specialized parts and less building. Seems to me like the opposite of what adult builders should be asking for. Almost like saying "gee, the Speed Champions sets are great, but wouldn't they be better if they were built like the Mega Bloks Need for Speed sets?" I know brick-built dragons are a bit blockier than pre-molded ones, but minifigures are way blockier than mini-dolls and that doesn't seem to have affected your preferences there.

I think LEGO chose to have Castle peter out in favor of Big Bang "Castle" themes like Nexo Knights and Elves. So in a way, they did can Castle to make way for those themes. Waiting for Nexo Knights to end would take too long.

So you're saying that Castle was a popular and successful theme, and LEGO chose to end it around fifteen months before the next Castle-esque theme (aimed at an entirely different demographic) was due to come out? Seems improbable to me. They kept LEGO Hero Factory going for two whole years after the decision was made to bring Bionicle back just so there wouldn't be a gap between the two themes. They launched LEGO Legends of Chima while LEGO Ninjago was still running. So why would they casually stop releasing a popular theme over a year before they would have anything similar to replace it with?

Also, Pirates and Western are a completely different discussion altogether, and I believe that there are complaints from the fans of those themes about the wait as well.

Oh, absolutely there are complaints. My point is that fans of those themes have dealt with much longer hiatuses between new waves of sets than Castle fans ever have. Their frustration is justified. With Castle, on the other hand, it's been less than three months since the last wave of Hobbit sets came out, and there are three "castle-esque" themes (Elves, Nexo Knights, and Disney Princess) still ongoing. At this point, I think the present amount of worry seems a little premature.

Also, I agree with you that a more traditional Castle theme and Nexo Knights could probably coexist, especially next year or the year after that when Nexo Knights is more established and has possibly diverged even further from traditional Castle. This is part of why I don't think Nexo Knights is as bad for the future of "true" Castle as a lot of people make it out to be.

[Ql97]

Likewise, replacing the brick-built Elves dragons with more specialized molded ones would be a very definite step backwards. Putting aside nostalgia for "how things used to be", you're basically asking for the current Elves sets but with more specialized parts and less building. Seems to me like the opposite of what adult builders should be asking for. Almost like saying "gee, the Speed Champions sets are great, but wouldn't they be better if they were built like the Mega Bloks Need for Speed sets?" I know brick-built dragons are a bit blockier than pre-molded ones, but minifigures are way blockier than mini-dolls and that doesn't seem to have affected your preferences there.

I personally think the mini-dolls worked out really great with Elves. They certainly fit the aesthetic of the theme, which also worked out pretty good.

Me, I'm fine with waiting. It actually gives me an excuse to spend less on Lego.

[x105Black]

They also generally sound like bad ideas. Forestmen and Wolfpack were never popular enough to support more than a handful of sets as an offshoot of the main knight factions, and I don't see any reason why they would be more successful today when tales of Robin Hood-style highway banditry haven't had a lot of pop culture currency in years. If a theme of actual knights can't sustain more than a couple consecutive waves, then I hardly think a theme based on their more obscure contemporaries would fare much better.

I'll take your opinions with a grain of salt. After all, you are a self-professed fan of the Big Bang themes that I typically dislike (Nexo Knights, etc).

Likewise, replacing the brick-built Elves dragons with more specialized molded ones would be a very definite step backwards. Putting aside nostalgia for "how things used to be", you're basically asking for the current Elves sets but with more specialized parts and less building. Seems to me like the opposite of what adult builders should be asking for. Almost like saying "gee, the Speed Champions sets are great, but wouldn't they be better if they were built like the Mega Bloks Need for Speed sets?" I know brick-built dragons are a bit blockier than pre-molded ones, but minifigures are way blockier than mini-dolls and that doesn't seem to have affected your preferences there.

I just happen to like the style of molded creatures better than brick-built. I am all for building things, but I have a preference in creatures.

So you're saying that Castle was a popular and successful theme, and LEGO chose to end it around fifteen months before the next Castle-esque theme (aimed at an entirely different demographic) was due to come out? Seems improbable to me. They kept LEGO Hero Factory going for two whole years after the decision was made to bring Bionicle back just so there wouldn't be a gap between the two themes. They launched LEGO Legends of Chima while LEGO Ninjago was still running. So why would they casually stop releasing a popular theme over a year before they would have anything similar to replace it with?

Castle was an evergreen theme. The fact of the matter is that Nexo Knights had been in the planning stages for years, and they ended Castle before Nexo Knights was due to be released. Perhaps they ended it a little early because they still had Hobbit sets available. They also released Elves a full year earlier than Nexo Knights, leaving little separation in between 2013 Castle and Elves. There is even less separation if you are counting Disney Princesses (although I wouldn't classify that as Castle by any means). So they phased out of Castle with Tolkien, then Elves, and now Nexo Knights.

Oh, absolutely there are complaints. My point is that fans of those themes have dealt with much longer hiatuses between new waves of sets than Castle fans ever have. Their frustration is justified. With Castle, on the other hand, it's been less than three months since the last wave of Hobbit sets came out, and there are three "castle-esque" themes (Elves, Nexo Knights, and Disney Princess) still ongoing. At this point, I think the present amount of worry seems a little premature.

Also, I agree with you that a more traditional Castle theme and Nexo Knights could probably coexist, especially next year or the year after that when Nexo Knights is more established and has possibly diverged even further from traditional Castle. This is part of why I don't think Nexo Knights is as bad for the future of "true" Castle as a lot of people make it out to be.

I feel that the frustration here is justified as well. Sure, it may not be as long as others have had to wait, and I feel for those fans as well, but the future doesn't look bright from what we've heard from designers. While we may all think that Castle could coexist with Nexo Knights and Elves, LEGO may disagree.

[Vorkosigan]

They also generally sound like bad ideas. Forestmen and Wolfpack were never popular enough to support more than a handful of sets as an offshoot of the main knight factions, and I don't see any reason why they would be more successful today when tales of Robin Hood-style highway banditry haven't had a lot of pop culture currency in years. If a theme of actual knights can't sustain more than a couple consecutive waves, then I hardly think a theme based on their more obscure contemporaries would fare much better.

I don't disagree that those themes probably won't be revived, but I disagree that they "were never popular enough to support more than a handful of sets." They were designed as an offshoot adversary subtheme, but I don't think they ended because they weren't popular. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. At that time LEGO had much less information on exactly how successful individual sets were and how profitable they were and I don't think they made decisions like that about these subthemes.

[Aanchir]

I'll take your opinions with a grain of salt. After all, you are a self-professed fan of the Big Bang themes that I typically dislike (Nexo Knights, etc).

How does what themes I like have anything to do with how truthful I'm being? Robin Hood is nowhere near as ubiquitous in pop culture as he was in the 80s and 90s. Just see this article.

I have nothing against Forestmen or Wolfpack, but I've seen nothing to indicate that they were ever as successful as actual knight factions. If they had been, we surely would have seen more of them! But instead, the number of sets featuring Forestmen and sets featuring Wolfpack never really approached the number of sets featuring knight factions from that era like Crusaders/Lion Knights and Royal Knights. And if those themes were niche back then, then surely they'd be even more niche now, with Robin Hood having greatly faded from the pop culture landscape.

And yes, Vorkosigan, you're right that LEGO didn't have as many ways of evaluating the popularity of themes back then as they have now. Even so, if Forestmen were every bit as popular as the other factions they had at the time, I have a hard time believing LEGO would not have noticed or been able to respond to it. Nor can I believe that LEGO has never so much as tested the idea with kids since then.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Aanchir

[Artanis I]

And techno castles are ubiquitous in pop culture?

[BrickJagger]

And techno castles are ubiquitous in pop culture?

Sci-Fi is huge right now, which is why almost every theme nowadays has tech influences.

[Blakstone]

I was in my Dark Age when the Wolf Pack came out, but I think the appeal of the Forestmen is that they were a different type of faction which coexisted with the Crusaders and Black Falcons. I don't know what more LEGO could have done with them at the time.

it would have been wonderful if Kingdoms continued introducing a Forestmen type faction and expanding on the on Black Falcon.

Perhaps the Nexo Knights will provide useful parts for a traditional Cadtle theme in the future, but unless next year's villains are some classic dragon knights I doubt we (this forum) will get a lot useful from it.

[x105Black]

How does what themes I like have anything to do with how truthful I'm being? Robin Hood is nowhere near as ubiquitous in pop culture as he was in the 80s and 90s. Just see this article.

I have nothing against Forestmen or Wolfpack, but I've seen nothing to indicate that they were ever as successful as actual knight factions. If they had been, we surely would have seen more of them! But instead, the number of sets featuring Forestmen and sets featuring Wolfpack never really approached the number of sets featuring knight factions from that era like Crusaders/Lion Knights and Royal Knights. And if those themes were niche back then, then surely they'd be even more niche now, with Robin Hood having greatly faded from the pop culture landscape.

And yes, Vorkosigan, you're right that LEGO didn't have as many ways of evaluating the popularity of themes back then as they have now. Even so, if Forestmen were every bit as popular as the other factions they had at the time, I have a hard time believing LEGO would not have noticed or been able to respond to it. Nor can I believe that LEGO has never so much as tested the idea with kids since then.

Ubiquitous or not, Robin Hood is still a well known story. All your article proved was that he didn't appear in much media lately. Perhaps there is a vacancy to be filled. Also, Robin Hood is not the only way to interpret Forestmen. They could be elves to some, bandits to others, or simply woodsmen, as they were to me as a child.

Either way, the idea was that Forestmen would be something different from the typical Castle waves. I've seen nothing to indicate that they were not successful Castle factions. They may have been short lived, but polls on this site indicate that they were among the most well liked.

A Kingdoms wave would be the most welcome, I believe, as it is even further from Nexo Knights than traditional Castle (which, like Nexo Knights, can skew younger). A Kingdoms wave that included Forestmen and Wolfpack bandits, along with the villagers that they've had in the past, would be excellent. Fleshing out their Falcon faction beyond the single Joust figure (which was essentially a Dragon Knight with a Falcon shield) would also be great to see.

Edited January 20, 2016 by x105Black

[lego tripper]

On the topic of Forestmen:

I understand that a full-blown Forestmen wave probably wouldn't be too lucrative for TLG nowadays.

However, I propose an alternative: rather than Forestmen sets, there could be forestmen minifigs scattered across a couple of other Castle sets. Much like a wolfpack figure was included in the Black Knights and Dragon Masters castles.

[x105Black]

On the topic of Forestmen:

I understand that a full-blown Forestmen wave probably wouldn't be too lucrative for TLG nowadays.

However, I propose an alternative: rather than Forestmen sets, there could be forestmen minifigs scattered across a couple of other Castle sets. Much like a wolfpack figure was included in the Black Knights and Dragon Masters castles.

The same was, in fact, done with the Forestmen:

Although it was only in 2 sets (one of them being a collection of minifigures), there is precedent. Also, there was some popularity seen in the Elf and Forest Maiden Collectible Minifigures, along with the Forestman himself, which could all be said to exist within this theme to an extent.

I think the best solution would be a Kingdoms-styled theme that includes elements of various factions. Crusaders / Lions, Forestmen, Wolfpack, Falcons, and villagers would all be nice to see, despite the fact that the Lions are all too common in Castle themes.

Edited January 20, 2016 by x105Black

[Aanchir]

Either way, the idea was that Forestmen would be something different from the typical Castle waves. I've seen nothing to indicate that they were not successful Castle factions. They may have been short lived, but polls on this site indicate that they were among the most well liked.

I don't think AFOL polling is necessarily a good reflection of a theme's real sales potential/profitability. There are a lot of sets AFOLs tend to love that never sold enough units to be profitable, like monorail sets. And I've seen plenty of AFOL polls that rank the Friends theme very low despite it being one of the LEGO Group's top-selling current themes. It took years for AFOL polls to finally start recognizing the popularity of the the Ninjago theme, despite it having achieved the LEGO Group's highest ever single-year sales in its very first year in 2011.

A Kingdoms wave would be the most welcome, I believe, as it is even further from Nexo Knights than traditional Castle (which, like Nexo Knights, can skew younger).

I hate to get into this again, but I don't think it's all that sensible to say Kingdoms skews older than Nexo Knights. A lot of AFOLs here and elsewhere have expressed their love of Nexo Knights, demonstrating that no, it's not something that only appeals to kids. And aside from the Kingdoms Joust (which is bigger than any Nexo Knights set released so far), Kingdoms sets are aimed at a younger age range than Nexo Knights sets across all price points. A $10 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 5–12, a $10 Nexo Knights set at ages 7–14. A $20–60 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 5–12 or 6–12, a $20–60 Nexo Knights set at ages 8–14. A $100 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 7–14, a $100 Nexo Knights set at ages 9–14.

You're right that a Kingdoms revival and expansion could be awesome (Kingdoms was an amazing theme, even if I didn't collect it), and it would be a great opportunity to work in "bandit" factions like the Forestmen and Wolfpack, which I think really do work best when they supplement a larger knight faction. But I don't think it'd make sense to aim a Kingdoms reboot at an older age range than Nexo Knights. Exclusives could skew higher, as they pretty much always do, but keeping the lowest-priced sets aimed at the 7–14 age bracket (if not lower) would maximize their audience.

[Dr.Cogg]

I think a Forest dweller theme, could work, just look at Elves for example, replace the minidolls with minifigs, make the sets a little darker, and add the villains of Nexo Knights and you would have a good castle fantasy theme.

P.S. I hate the Minidolls, thats why I don't buy the sets, but I understand the appeal of the minidolls to the Polly Pocket crowd.

[Airbenderfreak]

I hate to get into this again, but I don't think it's all that sensible to say Kingdoms skews older than Nexo Knights. A lot of AFOLs here and elsewhere have expressed their love of Nexo Knights, demonstrating that no, it's not something that only appeals to kids. And aside from the Kingdoms Joust (which is bigger than any Nexo Knights set released so far), Kingdoms sets are aimed at a younger age range than Nexo Knights sets across all price points. A $10 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 5–12, a $10 Nexo Knights set at ages 7–14. A $20–60 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 5–12 or 6–12, a $20–60 Nexo Knights set at ages 8–14. A $100 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 7–14, a $100 Nexo Knights set at ages 9–14.

You're right that a Kingdoms revival and expansion could be awesome (Kingdoms was an amazing theme, even if I didn't collect it), and it would be a great opportunity to work in "bandit" factions like the Forestmen and Wolfpack, which I think really do work best when they supplement a larger knight faction. But I don't think it'd make sense to aim a Kingdoms reboot at an older age range than Nexo Knights. Exclusives could skew higher, as they pretty much always do, but keeping the lowest-priced sets aimed at the 7–14 age bracket (if not lower) would maximize their audience.

I think the reason Nexo Knights age range is higher is because of very technical and somewhat complex builds, not because it appeals more to older LEGO fans more than Kingdoms does.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Airbenderfreak

[x105Black]

I don't think AFOL polling is necessarily a good reflection of a theme's real sales potential/profitability. There are a lot of sets AFOLs tend to love that never sold enough units to be profitable, like monorail sets. And I've seen plenty of AFOL polls that rank the Friends theme very low despite it being one of the LEGO Group's top-selling current themes. It took years for AFOL polls to finally start recognizing the popularity of the the Ninjago theme, despite it having achieved the LEGO Group's highest ever single-year sales in its very first year in 2011.

I hate to get into this again, but I don't think it's all that sensible to say Kingdoms skews older than Nexo Knights. A lot of AFOLs here and elsewhere have expressed their love of Nexo Knights, demonstrating that no, it's not something that only appeals to kids. And aside from the Kingdoms Joust (which is bigger than any Nexo Knights set released so far), Kingdoms sets are aimed at a younger age range than Nexo Knights sets across all price points. A $10 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 5–12, a $10 Nexo Knights set at ages 7–14. A $20–60 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 5–12 or 6–12, a $20–60 Nexo Knights set at ages 8–14. A $100 Kingdoms set is aimed at ages 7–14, a $100 Nexo Knights set at ages 9–14.

You're right that a Kingdoms revival and expansion could be awesome (Kingdoms was an amazing theme, even if I didn't collect it), and it would be a great opportunity to work in "bandit" factions like the Forestmen and Wolfpack, which I think really do work best when they supplement a larger knight faction. But I don't think it'd make sense to aim a Kingdoms reboot at an older age range than Nexo Knights. Exclusives could skew higher, as they pretty much always do, but keeping the lowest-priced sets aimed at the 7–14 age bracket (if not lower) would maximize their audience.

I was discussing popularity, and using the only available metric here to define it. I was not discussing sales potential or profitability. You are free to discuss it further, but I am simply discussing what I think would make for a good theme or wave, and that there are others out there who feel the same.

As for the age thing, I'm always talking about aesthetics rather than complexity. The suggested ages are based on complexity, so yes, Nexo Knights may be skewing older in price point to age range. I would say, however, that the aesthetics of Nexo Knights (and more recent Castle waves) do skew younger than those of Kingdoms (or Tolkien themes). It's not about the difficulty of the build, it's about the overall style and impression. Brighter colors and silliness tend to skew younger than darker colors and seriousness. And just as there can be some silliness in a serious theme, and some dark colors in a brighter theme, there are surely adults who love Nexo Knights and children who love Kingdoms. There are always outliers (even in seemingly vast numbers).

I do think that aiming Kingdoms at an older demographic, aesthetically speaking, would be a good choice. But I agree that aiming the sets across all demographics, concerning complexity and price point, would also be a good choice.

I think a Forest dweller theme, could work, just look at Elves for example, replace the minidolls with minifigs, make the sets a little darker, and add the villains of Nexo Knights and you would have a good castle fantasy theme.

P.S. I hate the Minidolls, thats why I don't buy the sets, but I understand the appeal of the minidolls to the Polly Pocket crowd.

Absolutely.

There are many like us who find the minidolls to be abominable (despite their appeal to a certain audience) and avoid all such sets on that fact alone. If Elves had minifigures I would have definitely purchased a lot of the sets. And the upcoming wave of sets looks to be much more appealing. If only it didn't have minidolls and cutesy brick-built dragons, I would be very likely to purchase the entire theme (and I don't think I'm alone in that).

I think the reason Nexo Knights age range is higher is because of very technical and somewhat complex builds, not because it appeals more to older LEGO fans more than Kingdoms does.

My point exactly.

Edited January 20, 2016 by x105Black