Future Castle Sets?

[DaleDVM]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:15 AM, MAB said:

Elves wasn't an epic failure, yet that had fantasy castles, fantasy creatures, dragons, and of course elves. Similar to some castle themes. I don't think there are any repercussions in the castle community now because of Elves. And I don't think any similar minidoll based theme would have repercussions on the castle community. If the builds were exactly the same, I doubt that many kids would care either way if the figures were minidolls or minifigures. If there was a choice between no castle at all, and castle done with minidolls, I'd go with the minidolls.

We have never had a licensed castle theme and I doubt we ever will. If it is a license, the theme will be the license and not castle. Of course, there are licensed themes with castle like builds or actual castles in them (LOTR, HP, Disney) but these are not Castle, and don't see to have an effect on whether we get castles in in-house themes. We already saw in 2013 we had LOTR+Hobbit coexisting with Castle. And again here, I'd prefer to see a licensed theme with castle type builds in it, than no castle like builds at all.

@Roebuck, indeed I have purchased a lot of animals this year.  Bahhh...  I think they are great and long overdue, but wish they were a little easier to get in bulk. 

@MAB, let me get this straight...  Elves is similar to castle because the rainbow buildings were castley...  LOTR and the Hobbit sets which had way more castle type of builds aren't castle...  AND, kids don't care about minifigs vs minidolls...  We will have to disagree on this.  

If I had to choose between no castle and a rainbow flavored minidoll line like Elves.  I'd go with no castle, which is exactly what I did.  Part selection (mostly due to color) in Elves was terrible IMHO.  The few useful pieces I just got off of bricklink for a tiny fraction of the cost for the sets.  

We did see LOTR, Hobbit, and castle coexist in 2013.  Guess what else happened that year?  The castle theme went POOF, going on 9 years now.  The licensed themes devoured demand from what was IMHO, a lackluster castle offering.  Why?  Because the LOTR and the Hobbit sets were WAY better castle sets than the 2013 castle line was.  When 2013 castle came out "Helm's Deep, Uruk-Hai Army, and Mines of Moria" were still on the shelves.  2013 castle didn't stand a chance.  Then, when castle sales dipped, TLG decided that castle was no longer an evergreen theme and here we are begging for scraps on this thread.  For the record, I bought a lot of 2013 castle, LOTR, and Hobbit sets. 

I guess we agree on one thing.  Even though I don't want a licensed theme, I would rather see a licensed castle theme than no theme at all.  Which is why I said that I would regrettably buy the sets.  

@Poco Lypso, yes they may have some great civilian torsos in a licensed theme.  But like in the Hobbit sets most of the torsos have flesh colored areas which ruins it a bit for me.  I have way too much invested in classic yellow figs to switch over at this point.  

And now I shall wait...  Sadly, I think it will be quite a bit before we get anything...  I hope for everyone's sake, I am wrong.
 

[zoth33]

1 hour ago, DaleDVM said:

@Roebuck, indeed I have purchased a lot of animals this year.  Bahhh...  I think they are great and long overdue, but wish they were a little easier to get in bulk. 

@MAB, let me get this straight...  Elves is similar to castle because the rainbow buildings were castley...  LOTR and the Hobbit sets which had way more castle type of builds aren't castle...  AND, kids don't care about minifigs vs minidolls...  We will have to disagree on this.  

If I had to choose between no castle and a rainbow flavored minidoll line like Elves.  I'd go with no castle, which is exactly what I did.  Part selection (mostly due to color) in Elves was terrible IMHO.  The few useful pieces I just got off of bricklink for a tiny fraction of the cost for the sets.  

We did see LOTR, Hobbit, and castle coexist in 2013.  Guess what else happened that year?  The castle theme went POOF, going on 9 years now.  The licensed themes devoured demand from what was IMHO, a lackluster castle offering.  Why?  Because the LOTR and the Hobbit sets were WAY better castle sets than the 2013 castle line was.  When 2013 castle came out "Helm's Deep, Uruk-Hai Army, and Mines of Moria" were still on the shelves.  2013 castle didn't stand a chance.  Then, when castle sales dipped, TLG decided that castle was no longer an evergreen theme and here we are begging for scraps on this thread.  For the record, I bought a lot of 2013 castle, LOTR, and Hobbit sets. 

I guess we agree on one thing.  Even though I don't want a licensed theme, I would rather see a licensed castle theme than no theme at all.  Which is why I said that I would regrettably buy the sets.  

@Poco Lypso, yes they may have some great civilian torsos in a licensed theme.  But like in the Hobbit sets most of the torsos have flesh colored areas which ruins it a bit for me.  I have way too much invested in classic yellow figs to switch over at this point.  

And now I shall wait...  Sadly, I think it will be quite a bit before we get anything...  I hope for everyone's sake, I am wrong.
 

At least we have the blacksmith shop and the 3in1 castle which are pretty nice in my opinion.  There is a viking set coming this year also may be up your alley.  As of now I will be sticking with Ninjago for villains and dragons and some HP and Superheros stuff for figs and useful pieces especially with another thestral coming this year with a baby thestral and buckbeak to add to my collection.  I would love to see a return of LOTR but i don't think they will.  And will have to see what the 90th anniversary set is.  

[GeoBrick]

On 2/21/2022 at 5:43 AM, zoth33 said:

At least we have the blacksmith shop and the 3in1 castle which are pretty nice in my opinion.  There is a viking set coming this year also may be up your alley.  As of now I will be sticking with Ninjago for villains and dragons and some HP and Superheros stuff for figs and useful pieces especially with another thestral coming this year with a baby thestral and buckbeak to add to my collection.  I would love to see a return of LOTR but i don't think they will.  And will have to see what the 90th anniversary set is.  

If by the Viking set you mean the Marvel goatship design, I'll pass on that.
Weren't there rumours of a 3in1 viking ship? Or did that turn out to be this goatship?

[Aanchir]

6 hours ago, GeoBrick said:

If by the Viking set you mean the Marvel goatship design, I'll pass on that.
Weren't there rumours of a 3in1 viking ship? Or did that turn out to be this goatship?

Don't worry, the Creator 3-in-1 Viking ship is a separate set (set number 31132 according to the leaks/rumors I've seen).

[MAB]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:37 AM, DaleDVM said:

We did see LOTR, Hobbit, and castle coexist in 2013.  Guess what else happened that year?  The castle theme went POOF, going on 9 years now.  
 

What else happened that year? AFOLs trashed the Castle line, complaining it was lazy, too similar to past sets, too cartoony, etc.  Presumably it was about then that LEGO started to reinvent and modernise Castle and came up with Nexo Knights. Which AFOLs went on to complain about, not castle, too different to past sets, ...

On 2/21/2022 at 3:37 AM, DaleDVM said:

If I had to choose between no castle and a rainbow flavored minidoll line like Elves.  I'd go with no castle, which is exactly what I did.  Part selection (mostly due to color) in Elves was terrible IMHO.  The few useful pieces I just got off of bricklink for a tiny fraction of the cost for the sets.  
 

Whereas I'd go with a new Elves like theme instead of no castle. Especially if they did more male characters such as soldiers in minidoll form, I think younger boys would soon become fans of minidolls as well as minifigs.

If they aren't going to do old style castle anyway, I do not see the harm of having a fantasy based theme that is not Castle.

[zoth33]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

What else happened that year? AFOLs trashed the Castle line, complaining it was lazy, too similar to past sets, too cartoony, etc.  Presumably it was about then that LEGO started to reinvent and modernise Castle and came up with Nexo Knights. Which AFOLs went on to complain about, not castle, too different to past sets, ...

Whereas I'd go with a new Elves like theme instead of no castle. Especially if they did more male characters such as soldiers in minidoll form, I think younger boys would soon become fans of minidolls as well as minifigs.

If they aren't going to do old style castle anyway, I do not see the harm of having a fantasy based theme that is not Castle.

What else happened that year?  He means Castle went away and didn't come back

I don't think the boys will like minidolls as much as minifigs as they are not as customizable and I don't think the minidolls lend themselves to wearing armor and such because of there shape.  

[DaleDVM]

I do think 2013 castle was uninspired.  Especially when you compare it to Kingdoms and the Fantasy era lines.  IMHO, I think TLG purposefully juniorized the 2013 line specifically because it was sharing shelves with a more mature LOTR/Hobbit line of sets.  Which did not endear it to young children as they are not the target castle group.  And it was less attractive to older kid/adults who like castle.

The worst part is that TLG took the wrong lesson from those years and stopped castle altogether instead of admitting to their own design/marketing failure.  That said, I think we will get a castle theme sooner or later.  As I am sure we all feel... sooner would be better.  

@zoth33 I too have succumbed to the temptation of the bad guys from Ninjago.  In fact, I got nutty a couple of months ago and purchased a ton (3500+) of Ninjago, Nexo Knight, and even Chima bad guys. I got good sized armies of anything that could be fantasy or from the medieval period... The only figs I avoided were the ones that had modern (electronic/machine) designs on the figs.  From Ninjago, I got all of the different Snakes, Snake worshippers, Samurai (from hands of time), Blizzard army, Hunted, Stone army, Ghosts, Skeletons, even the islander, and aquatic baddies.  I got large armies of the Nexo Knight Lava monsters, and Rock monsters.  The nexo knight baddies are so unique.  I love them.  From Chima I got some of all animal types, but a lot of the bad factions... Crocs, Wolves, Sabre tooth tribe.  The spider guys from Chima are just incredible looking and my absolute favorite!!! but there are not a lot of them available. 

They all make for some awesome armies of generic (not licensed) fantasy type soldiers.  I kind of always wanted them, and am glad I took the plunge since it is now getting hard to find them in large numbers.

[Roebuck]

28 minutes ago, DaleDVM said:

I do think 2013 castle was uninspired.  Especially when you compare it to Kingdoms and the Fantasy era lines.  IMHO, I think TLG purposefully <insert that tiresome argument> the 2013 line specifically because it was sharing shelves with a more mature LOTR/Hobbit line of sets.  Which did not endear it to young children as they are not the target castle group.  And it was less attractive to older kid/adults who like castle.

The worst part is that TLG took the wrong lesson from those years and stopped castle altogether instead of admitting to their own design/marketing failure.  That said, I think we will get a castle theme sooner or later.  As I am sure we all feel... sooner would be better.  

I agree, they probably cannibalised on each other sales as well. The most crazy thing about it was that this happened right after 2009-2012 which in my mind had some of the best Castle sets of all time If they had keep those coming instead of divide it into LOTR and junorized Castle we might still have Castle today. I think it was to early for LOTR, there are a lot more AFOLs today so it would probably sell much better now, just look what have happened to HP

[zoth33]

6 hours ago, DaleDVM said:

I do think 2013 castle was uninspired.  Especially when you compare it to Kingdoms and the Fantasy era lines.  IMHO, I think TLG purposefully <insert that tiresome argument> the 2013 line specifically because it was sharing shelves with a more mature LOTR/Hobbit line of sets.  Which did not endear it to young children as they are not the target castle group.  And it was less attractive to older kid/adults who like castle.

The worst part is that TLG took the wrong lesson from those years and stopped castle altogether instead of admitting to their own design/marketing failure.  That said, I think we will get a castle theme sooner or later.  As I am sure we all feel... sooner would be better.  

@zoth33 I too have succumbed to the temptation of the bad guys from Ninjago.  In fact, I got nutty a couple of months ago and purchased a ton (3500+) of Ninjago, Nexo Knight, and even Chima bad guys. I got good sized armies of anything that could be fantasy or from the medieval period... The only figs I avoided were the ones that had modern (electronic/machine) designs on the figs.  From Ninjago, I got all of the different Snakes, Snake worshippers, Samurai (from hands of time), Blizzard army, Hunted, Stone army, Ghosts, Skeletons, even the islander, and aquatic baddies.  I got large armies of the Nexo Knight Lava monsters, and Rock monsters.  The nexo knight baddies are so unique.  I love them.  From Chima I got some of all animal types, but a lot of the bad factions... Crocs, Wolves, Sabre tooth tribe.  The spider guys from Chima are just incredible looking and my absolute favorite!!! but there are not a lot of them available. 

They all make for some awesome armies of generic (not licensed) fantasy type soldiers.  I kind of always wanted them, and am glad I took the plunge since it is now getting hard to find them in large numbers.

Wow I'm jealous of the fact you got 3500+ figs. I do really love the Nexo knight rock monsters.  I have 4 big gargoyles and 1 harpy and several of the none winged ones but am looking to get more once my tax return comes in.  I also really like the heads from the blizzard samurai from ninjago.  I use the chima wolves as werewolves and need to get more of those too.  The ghost from ninjago are really nice too.  Glad to hear you got some big armies I think you have a great time using some of those for specialzed custom figs too.  A lot of the torsos and legs worked well for me for assassins, mercenary groups, or even elite soldiers in armies.  Have fun with all those figs.  

[ostrichwatch]

Would love to see a new knights castle too

[eldiano]

3 hours ago, ostrichwatch said:

Would love to see a new knights castle too

Me too, Kingdoms, Castle, Anything is welcome!!!

[Agent Kallus]

How likely to do we think it is that the 90th anniversary set will be a castle related set?

[Roebuck]

5 hours ago, Agent Kallus said:

How likely to do we think it is that the 90th anniversary set will be a castle related set?

I say

• 40% Castle
• 20% pirates
• 20% Bonkle
• 20% Space

It got the most votes in the first round if you combine the different subthemes at least.
Maybe unrelated maybe not; a reddish brown horse have pop up on B&P, that has not been in any set for several years so that must mean it will come in one soon  
 

[eldiano]

I thought Bionicle placed first?  Space was the next line so highly doubt it will be anything Pirates or Castle.   

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by eldiano

[Aanchir]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:58 PM, DaleDVM said:

I do think 2013 castle was uninspired.  Especially when you compare it to Kingdoms and the Fantasy era lines.  IMHO, I think TLG purposefully <insert that tiresome argument> the 2013 line specifically because it was sharing shelves with a more mature LOTR/Hobbit line of sets.  Which did not endear it to young children as they are not the target castle group.  And it was less attractive to older kid/adults who like castle.

Why do you think that young children are "not the target castle group"? After all, even if you didn't care for the aesthetics of the 2013 Castle sets, they still had around the same target age and level of complexity as comparable sets from the Fantasy Era and Kingdoms launch waves in 2007 and 2010.

By comparison, many brightly-colored and "cartoonish" themes like Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, and Monkie Kid DID target older kids (as evidenced by their higher recommended age ranges and more complex builds), yet still managed to last quite a bit longer than the 2013 incarnation of LEGO Castle. So whether or not a castle theme aimed at older kids would have had a better chance of success than the 2013 wave, it wouldn't necessarily have had any more of the sort of "maturity" you felt the 2013 sets lacked.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Aanchir

[Roebuck]

10 hours ago, eldiano said:

I thought Bionicle placed first?  Space was the next line so highly doubt it will be anything Pirates or Castle.   

 

Bonkle only had one category to vote for, the others had several so the result from the second round where we only could vote for one group could be very different

https://www.stonewars.net/lego-news/interim-results-of-the-lego-ideas-90th-anniversary-survey/

It was a very unfair first round. E.g in a president election in the states if the republicans only had 1 candidate and the democrats had 8, the former could win with only 20% of the votes even if 80% voted for one of the candidates of the latter party..
What they should have done was have Castle etc as one category then have subcategory of the different subthemes. E.g. vote for the democrats then choose the favourite among the candidates if you had one

[Lego David]

15 hours ago, Roebuck said:

20% pirates

For the record, we just recently had the Baracuda Bay set, which is basically the best Pirates Anniversary Tribute set you could ask for. I think making another super big set for that would be kind of redundant, unless they make it an Imperials-focused set instead (which I am not sure Imperials is a popular enough subtheme for them to consider it). 

My guess would be something more like:

40% Castle 

30% Space

20% Bionicle 

10% Pirates 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Lego David

[Roebuck]

2 hours ago, Lego David said:

For the record, we just recently had the Baracuda Bay set, which is basically the best Pirates Anniversary Tribute set you could ask for. I think making another super big set for that would be kind of redundant, unless they make it an Imperials-focused set instead (which I am not sure Imperials is a popular enough subtheme for them to consider it). 

My guess would be something more like:

40% Castle 

30% Space

20% Bionicle 

10% Pirates 

 

I do not disagree, my favourite theme is Pirates, but since we just had B-bay I think Castle deserved it more and voted for it. I think Pirates would get a lot more votes if the fans where as starved as Castle and Bonkle fans are  That said a big D2C set with imperials would be a dream come true

[Merlo]

What about creator castle and blacksmith shop? Both good and recent and covering all ages and tastes.

[Something_Awesome]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:27 AM, Agent Kallus said:

How likely to do we think it is that the 90th anniversary set will be a castle related set?

I am going to wage it is almost a 100% certainty. At the least, I can assure you they do not want the 90 year anniversary set to be Bionicles, especially since it is not a great representation of the brand's 90 year history. I think of the finalists, LEGO can exercise discretion. They will choose a castle theme IMO. 

I also would not consider a 90th Anniversary castle set as a redundancy because of the Medieval Blacksmith. The set is going to be an actual castle. LEGO is well aware of the popularity of the 3-in-1 Castle, and the Castle in the Forest set (which broke the internet). Castles are what put LEGO on the map and, aside from the theme being highly desired, it properly represents a huge chuck of LEGO's existence and success. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Something_Awesome

[eldiano]

I hated the creator castle for the fact that it’s in the 3in1 creator lineup, Creator is just brick counts over quantity and less mini figures…. When you compare a recent castle set versus the creator set, granted it looks great and the scale is awesome, the inside detailing leaves a lot to be desired.  

[Lacdaran]

Is there any rumors about the alternate builds for the viking ship 3 in 1?

I'm hoping for a longhouse and maybe a viking port or houses.  If so I'm going to buy like 4 or 5 sets and do a whole village.

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, Something_Awesome said:

I am going to wage it is almost a 100% certainty. At the least, I can assure you they do not want the 90 year anniversary set to be Bionicles, especially since it is not a great representation of the brand's 90 year history.

We can't necessarily assume that the one adult-targeted set they're making based on the fan vote is the only 90th anniversary product they have planned. After all, just look at how many different types of products they had in 2018 to celebrate 60 years of the LEGO brick and 40 years of the LEGO minifigure! As such, I'm not sure they're actually under any pressure to ensure this ONE set/theme decided by the fan vote will represent the brand's entire 90-year history.

If that HAD been a meaningful concern of theirs, they could have just as easily limited the poll options to 20th century themes, leaving early 2000s themes like Bionicle, Arctic, and Alpha Team out of the running altogether. And even then, there were many flash-in-the-pan System themes included in the poll (Wolfpack, Ice Planet, Divers, Xtreme Team, Rock Raiders, etc) that wouldn't reflect the fullness of the company's history any better than Bionicle!

I don't think Bionicle is necessarily any more likely to be chosen than Castle, Pirates, or Space. But I see no reason to think that it wouldn't even be considered, particularly given how many LEGO designers remain extremely fond of and nostalgic for Bionicle to this day, and how instrumental a role it played in keeping the company out of bankruptcy long enough to reach this milestone in the first place.

3 hours ago, Something_Awesome said:

Castles are what put LEGO on the map and, aside from the theme being highly desired, it properly represents a huge chuck of LEGO's existence and success.  

I'm curious, is there some specific historical milestone you're referring to when you say "Castles are what put LEGO on the map"? Because to me it seems like the Town and Space themes played just as big a role for LEGO in the 70s, 80s, and 90s as Castle did. Particularly since they had a much larger presence at the time of the minifigure's debut in the late 70s, whereas Castle took a few years longer to truly catch up with them.

2 hours ago, eldiano said:

I hated the creator castle for the fact that it’s in the 3in1 creator lineup, Creator is just brick counts over quantity and less mini figures…. When you compare a recent castle set versus the creator set, granted it looks great and the scale is awesome, the inside detailing leaves a lot to be desired.  

I thought the Creator one had pretty good interior detailing, to be honest! I mean, the A-model alone included a well, a market stall, a smithy, a cabinet/apartment with fireplace and armchair, a dungeon, a gatehouse, and even a garderobe-style toilet. Most big $90/$100 Castle sets over the years haven't had nearly as many clearly-defined interior spaces. And the B- and C-models can be used to add even more interior features.

Mind you, I agree that there's room for improvement still! I'd love to see a big castle with features like a royal bedchamber, kitchen, great hall, library, and stable. And the 3-in-1 Medieval Castle did lack a treasury and throne room, which tend to be a staple of comparably-sized Castle sets.

But unlike the minifigure selection (which I agree is usually rather weak), I don't think the interiors of Creator 3-in-1 sets suffer from their theme assignment at all. After all, just look at how well-furnished Creator 3-in-1 houses, cabin cruisers, and RVs (e.g. 31052, 31083, and 31118) tend to be compared to their Town/City equivalents!

35 minutes ago, Lacdaran said:

Is there any rumors about the alternate builds for the viking ship 3 in 1?

I'm hoping for a longhouse and maybe a viking port or houses.  If so I'm going to buy like 4 or 5 sets and do a whole village.

I haven't heard anything yet, but some of your hopes sound pretty plausible! I imagine that the Midgard Serpent in the main build may include a lot of green parts, which could then be repurposed for landscaping elements like grass and trees in an alternate Viking fort or dwelling.

Assuming the non-sea serpent parts are mostly in some shade of brown, I could also imagine other mythology inspired alternate builds. Perhaps a battle between a more traditional dragon like Fafnir versus a siege engine of some kind (like in some of the 2005 Vikings sets). Or even a model of the world tree Yggdrasil with the dragon Nidhogg at its base, the squirrel Ratatosk in its branches, and the unnamed eagle atop its canopy.

Honestly, one of the strengths of Creator 3-in-1's reliance on fairly basic parts is that there are any number of alternate build options, regardless of what the main build is like. Whereas "play themes" like City, Castle, Pirates, Ninjago, etc. are often more likely to include boat parts that are tricky to use for non-boat builds, creature parts that are tricky to use for non-creature builds, plant parts that are tricky to use for non-plant builds, etc.

[Lacdaran]

8 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Serpent in the main build may include a lot of green parts, which could then be repurposed for landscaping elements like grass and trees in an alternate Viking fort or dwelling.

And if the sails are brick built like on the pirate ship they could work for snow.

[AmperZand]

12 hours ago, Lego David said:

For the record, we just recently had the Baracuda Bay set, which is basically the best Pirates Anniversary Tribute set you could ask for. I think making another super big set for that would be kind of redundant, unless they make it an Imperials-focused set instead (which I am not sure Imperials is a popular enough subtheme for them to consider it). 

My guess would be something more like:

40% Castle 

30% Space

20% Bionicle 

10% Pirates 

 

I would guess:

60% Space

20% Castle

15% Pirate

5% Bonc

The adult public - excluding AFOLs - views the CS minifigure (like those in Benny’s Space Squad) as an icon of the LEGO brand in a way that no single Castle minifigure is (except, perhaps, Majisto/Merlin). So for that reason, I suspect CS will be selected.

For the record, I’d be happy with either CS or Castle.

Edited March 5, 2022 by AmperZand