Future Castle Sets?

[Alexandrina]

10 minutes ago, leafan said:

that they're Black Falcons; since we just had those in the Ideas set.

Conversely, if we're not getting a full blown theme I would rather have the same faction in both sets than have two factions who each only come in a single expensive set. What's the point in having two factions for battling if you have to buy multiple copies of three figure sets or get lucky on Bricks & Pieces if you want armies of more than two apiece? 

[Henry Bricklider]

2 hours ago, leafan said:

Whilst the 3-in-1 build sounds good, I am quite disappointed that there is only 3 minifigures and that they're Black Falcons; since we just had those in the Ideas set.

Hopefully, it won't just be 2 more of the exact same Black Falcon torso from the Ideas set and they'll make some new prints.... but we all know that is not going to happen.

I dunno, I kind of like the sound of getting more of the Black Falcon soldiers from the Ideas set in other places. Personally, their my favorite faction and I'd like to slowly build a small army of them, but I can understand the want for updates to other factions. I'd like to see the original Wolfpack get some sort of update in the same vein as the Black Falcons.

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Conversely, if we're not getting a full blown theme I would rather have the same faction in both sets than have two factions who each only come in a single expensive set. What's the point in having two factions for battling if you have to buy multiple copies of three figure sets or get lucky on Bricks & Pieces if you want armies of more than two apiece?  

Yeah, one way or another, it's reassuring that a torso print as nice as that one was not created for one set and one set only. Plus, it's possible that this might also pave the way for them to appear in other, smaller medieval-themed Creator sets in the future to create continuity/crossover appeal, just as the astronaut torso from https://brickset.com/sets/31107-1/Space-Rover-Explorer went on to appear in the much cheaper https://brickset.com/sets/31111-1/Cyber-Drone.

[Alexandrina]

3 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Yeah, one way or another, it's reassuring that a torso print as nice as that one was not created for one set and one set only.

100%. Maybe it's controversial, but I actually hate exclusive torsos, especially in non-licensed sets where there's no need for it. The Black Falcon torsos are expensive enough to get now, when their set is brand new. How expensive will they become five years from now when there's no active production run? I always feel that minifig parts that are exclusive to big D2C sets are hard to come by on the aftermarket - there's not as many sold as with cheaper sets, and those that are sold are often sold to people who know what their Lego is worth - the kind of people who will more often sell the whole set than just the parts. You're unlikely to find the Blacksmith broken up in a £50 bin of assorted bricks ten years from now!

I guess I'm thinking of all the beautiful torsos from sets in my Dark Ages/sets I couldn't afford when I was younger, that are now almost impossible for me to come by. I want lots of Black Falcons this year and next.

1 hour ago, Henry Bricklider said:

I'd like to see the original Wolfpack get some sort of update in the same vein as the Black Falcons.

It's possible that Lego are trying to work their way up to a full Castle theme. They've got the Blacksmith and the 3-in-1 this year, both with Black Falcons, so you can build your army nicely. Perhaps if they sell well enough, either next year or 2023 there'll be a full theme with more of the Black Falcons and maybe a group like the Wolfpack updated to go up against them.

[leafan]

6 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Conversely, if we're not getting a full blown theme I would rather have the same faction in both sets than have two factions who each only come in a single expensive set. What's the point in having two factions for battling if you have to buy multiple copies of three figure sets or get lucky on Bricks & Pieces if you want armies of more than two apiece? 

Well you could say the same about the point in having 2 expensive sets with only 1 faction in it.

I understand that people want the Black Falcon torso to be more readily available, and so do I, but the 3-in-1 set isn't exactly cheap itself.

Lego could just increase supply and limited purchase numbers in Bricks and Pieces.

I want to see the Lion Knights/Crusasers get an updated torso, since to me they're the traditional rival of the Black Falcons.

[Alexandrina]

11 minutes ago, leafan said:

I want to see the Lion Knights/Crusasers get an updated torso, since to me they're the traditional rival of the Black Falcons.

That's fair, but I reckon they're saving them for next time. Perhaps the success or otherwise of this year's medieval sets is going to inform what Lego do in the future - and so they want to focus on one faction now in case no more sets follow. If this leads to a full theme we'll probably get another faction to go with the Black Falcons. 

[The_Creator]

I'm probably just daft but I can't find the picture(s) anywhere online - anyone want to PM me a link?😅

EDIT: Never-mind, I thought there were pictures. Found the description.

I wish it was more than 3 minifigures, but I'll take anything I can get. At the least it should have the new Black Falcons and hopefully that will increase the supply of them. Hopefully the civilian torso print is new - but I just got out of a 6/8 year grey ages and not sure if Creator sets ever get new torso prints?

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by The_Creator

[leafan]

44 minutes ago, The_Creator said:

not sure if Creator sets ever get new torso prints?

They can. The Pirate 3-in1 set had a new captain's torso.

[The_Creator]

2 hours ago, leafan said:

They can. The Pirate 3-in1 set had a new captain's torso.

That's good news, as others have noted we desperately need more medieval/castle civilians.

[Brick_Rattlehead]

6 hours ago, leafan said:

Well you could say the same about the point in having 2 expensive sets with only 1 faction in it.

I understand that people want the Black Falcon torso to be more readily available, and so do I, but the 3-in-1 set isn't exactly cheap itself.

Lego could just increase supply and limited purchase numbers in Bricks and Pieces.

I want to see the Lion Knights/Crusasers get an updated torso, since to me they're the traditional rival of the Black Falcons.

I wonder why they dont even come up with updated Lion knights/Crusaders at least on CMF. I mean, they've come up with many castle themes minifigs over the years but somehow it took them forever to finally made Black falcon knight. There has been Heroic knight, Evil knight, Frightening knight , Fright knight,  Forestman, Rogue (Wolfpack), Classic King, Queen but still no Crusaders.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Brick_Rattlehead

[Roebuck]

16 hours ago, Lego David said:

1500+ pieces for 100$ sounds like a good deal,

From my translation the 1500 parts was just a guess from their side, so take that with a lot of salt

14 hours ago, leafan said:

 I am quite disappointed that there is only 3 minifigures and that they're Black Falcons; since we just had those in the Ideas set.

Well it is because they where in the ideas set that we get them here, to save money. Creator 3in1 probably have a small budget, there is however a small change for a new civilian fig torso I would say

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, Brick_Rattlehead said:

I wonder why they dont even come up with updated Lion knights/Crusaders at least on CMF.

If they do all their good ideas too early they'll have nothing left for future CMFs. I have no doubt a new Crusader will come eventually. 

[Poco Lypso]

11 hours ago, leafan said:

Well you could say the same about the point in having 2 expensive sets with only 1 faction in it.

I understand that people want the Black Falcon torso to be more readily available, and so do I, but the 3-in-1 set isn't exactly cheap itself.

Lego could just increase supply and limited purchase numbers in Bricks and Pieces.

I want to see the Lion Knights/Crusasers get an updated torso, since to me they're the traditional rival of the Black Falcons.

I doubt we are getting any more here. Last year we got barracuda and a creator ship and nothing after that - no faction to fight against :). This year we are getting the blacksmith and a creator black falcon castle. When you think about it makes sense to do the black falcon castle as creator set because.... eh... ONE minifig-torso has been produced. Hmm...

As for the creator castle I am already disappointed without having seen it. I am fine with more black falcons, hopefully the civilian minifig will be great BUT yellow tudor style? I think yellow was ok back in the day when lego didnt have many colors but why today? No need for that kind of nostalgia imo! Ok I am biased - I don't like basic yellow bricks. Blue roofs? Hmm... if its earth blue... but I see no reason why lego wouldnt use bright blue - as in make more child friendly with brighter colors, I mean we already got the yellow in it so why not double down, lol.

I will buy one creator castle, more black falcons are never a bad thing but I doubt the usefulness of the parts will be so fantastic as to buy it more than once.

[Alexandrina]

50 minutes ago, Poco Lypso said:

Hmm... if its earth blue... but I see no reason why lego wouldnt use bright blue

Those would both be new colours, right? I'm not opposed, but there are a lot of shades of blue already in production so I question the necessity when colours like dark yellow have never come into play. 

[Lego David]

1 hour ago, Poco Lypso said:

As for the creator castle I am already disappointed without having seen it. I am fine with more black falcons, hopefully the civilian minifig will be great BUT yellow tudor style? I think yellow was ok back in the day when lego didnt have many colors but why today? No need for that kind of nostalgia imo! Ok I am biased - I don't like basic yellow bricks. Blue roofs? Hmm... if its earth blue... but I see no reason why lego wouldnt use bright blue - as in make more child friendly with brighter colors, I mean we already got the yellow in it so why not double down, lol.

Wait, so the Castle is gonna be completely yellow, like the original 1978 Castle? Seriously? If that's gonna be the case, I am probably not gonna be interested in purchasing the set (I wanted it mostly for the grey bricks so I can build my own Castle MOC). A Yellow Castle just isn't really something that would make sense in 2021, nostalgia biases aside. 

I really hope the actual set turns out to be gray, as all Castles should be.

[Poco Lypso]

12 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Those would both be new colours, right? I'm not opposed, but there are a lot of shades of blue already in production so I question the necessity when colours like dark yellow have never come into play. 

Nah, bright blue is oldest blueish lego. Earth blue is the darker blue and has been in existense for almost 2 decades iirc. Both are featured in the blacksmith shop. I like the earth blue but not the other. Although I must admit, after building the blacksmith shop I kinda like its roof, hmm. In any case I tend to decide wether to buy a set ot not on factors such as minifigs included and useable parts preferences. If a set contains lots of less useful colors I am more likely to skip it.

1 minute ago, Lego David said:

Wait, so the Castle is gonna be completely yellow, like the original 1978 Castle? Seriously? If that's gonna be the case, I am probably not gonna be interested in purchasing the set (I wanted it mostly for the grey bricks so I can build my own Castle MOC). A Yellow Castle just isn't really something that would make sense in 2021, nostalgia biases aside. 

I really hope the actual set turns out to be gray, as all Castles should be.

No, it just has some yellow tudor style sections (the original black falcon castle had some of it too)

[Alexandrina]

32 minutes ago, Poco Lypso said:

Nah, bright blue is oldest blueish lego. Earth blue is the darker blue and has been in existense for almost 2 decades iirc.

I've never come across those names before. I assumed earth blue would be a brighter colour, like earth orange is. 

For the sake of anyone else who was unfamiliar with the names, I found this old post by KamalYAfi which compares the Bricklink and LDD colours. Very useful!

Edited February 28, 2021 by Alexandrina
Added a useful link

[Darth Shadowthrone]

44 minutes ago, Poco Lypso said:

No, it just has some yellow tudor style sections (the original black falcon castle had some of it too)

Just looked up an old picture of the black falcon castle and it’s interesting how it looks like it has printed bricks to represent the panelling effect with diagonal beams. As creator is unlikely to use stickered or printed pieces I wonder if they have the capability to achieve that diagonal effect with brick-built construction? 

[Alexandrina]

34 minutes ago, Darth Shadowthrone said:

Just looked up an old picture of the black falcon castle and it’s interesting how it looks like it has printed bricks to represent the panelling effect with diagonal beams. As creator is unlikely to use stickered or printed pieces I wonder if they have the capability to achieve that diagonal effect with brick-built construction?

Technically speaking they could be bringing back the old printed panels. Not likely, but I for one would spend more money than I can afford if they did. 

[gedren_y]

They'll probably use the Tudor sections of the Ideas Medieval Blacksmith as a template, without any paint wearing. There are a couple other ways to do it, but those require a greater volume of parts.

[Roebuck]

3 hours ago, Poco Lypso said:

Last year we got barracuda and a creator ship and nothing after that - no faction to fight against :)

I have not given up hope yet! When they did see how well the B-bay set sold, they may have started to work on a new set to go with it. However that takes time and it will not hit the shelf before next year

[Aanchir]

16 hours ago, leafan said:

They can. The Pirate 3-in1 set had a new captain's torso.

Yep! The first Creator 3-in-1 set to have a new torso print was in the Daredevil Stunt Plane set. Besides that and the Pirate Ship set mentioned above, the Space Rover Explorer and Cyber Drone sets have also introduced new minifigure torso or head prints. That said, there are usually very few new printed elements per year in the Creator 3-in-1 theme compared to other themes. So even if this new 3-in-1 castle introduced a torso with new heraldry, it's doubtful it would have been able to introduce a matching shield as well.

To be honest, if this set WERE to introduce any entirely new prints, I think perhaps the ideal possibility would be ones that complement the new Black Falcon prints from the Blacksmith Shop to help create a more varied army or kingdom. For instance, a torso with Black Falcon patterned plate armor analogous this Lion Knight torso could could be used to differentiate knights from common soldiers, or cavalry from infantry. Likewise, a more luxurious torso analogous to this Lion Knight king/prince torso could be used for a king, prince, or lord to lead the Black Falcon faction.

Slightly tangential, but not too long ago, while researching old-school set and theme names from different countries for my own amusement, I learned that a 1984 Dutch catalog actually named a couple of characters from the Lion Knight and Black Falcon factions (a relative rarity back then due to the lack of tie-in storytelling media for most themes). Set 6080 was labeled as "De Slot «Wittenburg» met ridder Pieter van Blankevoort" (Castle "Wittenburg" with knight Peter Whiteford), and set 6073 was labeled as "Kasteel «Donkervoort» met ridder Jan Swartegeest" (Castle "Darkford" with knight John Blackghost).

Although the lack of uniquely-designed minifigs makes it hard to identify for certain which minifigure each of these character names referred to specifically, my best guess based on the color-themed naming and implied high rank of these characters is that this mounted knight with a white plume and blue cape is "Pieter van Blankevoort/Peter Whiteford", and this mounted knight with a black torso, helmet, and cape is "Jan Swartegeest/John Blackghost".

Needless to say, this is little more than a historical curiosity in the grand scheme of things, but for people seeking to create modernized Black Falcon or Lion Knight MOCs, it could maybe be useful inspiration for what a leader or commander for each of those factions might look like!

[Alexandrina]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Slightly tangential, but not too long ago, while researching old-school set and theme names from different countries for my own amusement, I learned that a 1984 Dutch catalog actually named a couple of characters from the Lion Knight and Black Falcon factions (a relative rarity back then due to the lack of tie-in storytelling media for most themes). Set 6080 was labeled as "De Slot «Wittenburg» met ridder Pieter van Blankevoort" (Castle "Wittenburg" with knight Peter Whiteford), and set 6073 was labeled as "Kasteel «Donkervoort» met ridder Jan Swartegeest" (Castle "Darkford" with knight John Blackghost).

Although the lack of uniquely-designed minifigs makes it hard to identify for certain which minifigure each of these character names referred to specifically, my best guess based on the color-themed naming and implied high rank of these characters is that this mounted knight with a white plume and blue cape is "Pieter van Blankevoort/Peter Whiteford", and this mounted knight with a black torso, helmet, and cape is "Jan Swartegeest/John Blackghost".

Needless to say, this is little more than a historical curiosity in the grand scheme of things, but for people seeking to create modernized Black Falcon or Lion Knight MOCs, it could maybe be useful inspiration for what a leader or commander for each of those factions might look like!

I love little historical quirks like that. It's probably the only downside to the standardised names of the modern day. I'll certainly be Stealing some inspiration from those names - some thanks for sharing your research with us! 

Out of interest, are there any other similar named characters you've come across? 

[leafan]

On 2/28/2021 at 7:20 AM, Roebuck said:

From my translation the 1500 parts was just a guess from their side, so take that with a lot of salt

Well it is because they where in the ideas set that we get them here, to save money. Creator 3in1 probably have a small budget, there is however a small change for a new civilian fig torso I would say

Does a new torso print really cost that much? I'm sure most fans would take an updated Lion Knight over a new civilian. I will never understand how a new printed torso can take something over budget.

16 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Slightly tangential, but not too long ago, while researching old-school set and theme names from different countries for my own amusement, I learned that a 1984 Dutch catalog actually named a couple of characters from the Lion Knight and Black Falcon factions (a relative rarity back then due to the lack of tie-in storytelling media for most themes). Set 6080 was labeled as "De Slot «Wittenburg» met ridder Pieter van Blankevoort" (Castle "Wittenburg" with knight Peter Whiteford), and set 6073 was labeled as "Kasteel «Donkervoort» met ridder Jan Swartegeest" (Castle "Darkford" with knight John Blackghost).

That's cool. In the UK, the Forestmen were led by Robin Hood; as he was named in some of the descriptions.

[Roebuck]

2 minutes ago, leafan said:

Does a new torso print really cost that much?  I will never understand how a new printed torso can take something over budget.

Apparently or the budget for Creator 3in1 is that low  I do not follow the theme closely, but my impression is that they never have new moulds, rarely any new printed parts and not many part in new colors