Future Castle Sets?

[MAB]

9 hours ago, Aanchir said:

 

Personally, I see the trend towards media-supported themes less as a sign that those are the only types of themes that can sell, and more as a sign that LEGO's has become capable of creating tie-in media like apps or animated series for their themes that might've had to rely on more low-tech marketing strategies in years past.

 

Yeah, I am not arguing that the only themes that can sell are media based ones but that any non-media based ones have to coexist with media based ones on the shelves. We often see an argument that LEGO didn't bother to advertise Pirates 2015 or Castle 2013 properly, compared to the media driven themes. This is exactly the issue. Without media, the competing themes get much more airtime and hence better advertisement. Then when the non-media themes don't do so well, fans blame LEGO for not supporting them.

[Alexandrina]

4 hours ago, Aanchir said:

the Knights of the Round Table in Arthurian legend

Slightly detouring from the core point, but I would love a subtheme based on the Arthurian legend (or even better, the Marcher struggles that inspired it). Perhaps I'm biased by the fact that my own hometown was at its peak relevance at this point in history (the only battle fought there was a little later than Arthur, between the Welsh kingdoms and Offa of Mercia, but an Arthurian aesthetic would be similar). 

Having said that, Lego would probably have greater joy transplanting the cast of the legend into their sets with new names. The stories aren't consistent, and having their's own Arthur-adjacent theme would allow them to stick to the most simple story without the inevitable glut of people upset because the sets don't represent the version of the legend they grew up on. Most of the Knights of the Round Table aren't embedded into the public consciousness on their own anyway (yes, Lancelot is famous - who else is there?) 

I'll also admit that my mind, giddy in thoughts of an Arthurian-esque theme set close to my home, started imagining a set featuring a battle at Offa's Dyke, before it occurred to me that the word has another meaning Lego are advised to steer well clear of! 

[Lego David]

20 hours ago, DaleDVM said:

That was less than a generation ago.  Have things changed that much in toyworld? 

To answer your question, yes, LEGO has changed quite a lot in the past decade, especially since the first LEGO Movie. By far, the biggest of those changes is that they went from an independent family-owned company to a multi-billion dollar industrial corporation in less the 10 years. In 2010, they first announced that they will do a full-on partnership with Disney for the first time, which caused them to adopt a corporate mentality that continues to this day only gets worse as the years pass. 

Like Disney, LEGO has gotten to the point where they enjoy so much success that they are virtually unstoppable, and start buying up other companies (the recent aqusition of Bricklink is a forshadowing of that). They now want to maximize their profits at all costs, and if that requires abandoning their beloved classic themes, they will gladly do it. 

So, if anything, I'd say the corporatization of LEGO is probably the biggest thing to blame for the lack of classic themes (and original themes in general) nowdays. Much like Disney, they have gotten to the point of where they are creatively bankrupt, to the point where they go as far as asking the fans to provide them with ideas for "the next Ninjago" with the LEGO World Builder platform. 

 

[Rattlebricks]

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

To answer your question, yes, LEGO has changed quite a lot in the past decade, especially since the first LEGO Movie. By far, the biggest of those changes is that they went from an independent family-owned company to a multi-billion dollar industrial corporation in less the 10 years. In 2010, they first announced that they will do a full-on partnership with Disney for the first time, which caused them to adopt a corporate mentality that continues to this day only gets worse as the years pass. 

Like Disney, LEGO has gotten to the point where they enjoy so much success that they are virtually unstoppable, and start buying up other companies (the recent aqusition of Bricklink is a forshadowing of that). They now want to maximize their profits at all costs, and if that requires abandoning their beloved classic themes, they will gladly do it. 

So, if anything, I'd say the corporatization of LEGO is probably the biggest thing to blame for the lack of classic themes (and original themes in general) nowdays. Much like Disney, they have gotten to the point of where they are creatively bankrupt, to the point where they go as far as asking the fans to provide them with ideas for "the next Ninjago" with the LEGO World Builder platform. 

 

All good points there. I throughly agree.  Basically its every big company syndrome, just like the big techs, they'll eventually monopolized everything.

Ironically , its basically Lego Movie 1 storyline. 

[Roebuck]

2 hours ago, Lego David said:

Much like Disney, they have gotten to the point of where they are creatively bankrupt,

Are you kidding, look at al the great sets we got last year 
To compare Lego with Disney is way off target in my mind, however I do agree with what you say about Disney 

[DaleDVM]

I used to spend 4 to 8 thousand dollars yearly on LEGO.  Now it is less than a thousand per year.  I know I am not the typical LEGO customer, but I chose the theme I like/collect 35 years ago.  I really am not interested in other themes and at my age I doubt that will change.  Nexo knights had very little to offer to classic castle fans and builders.  I am glad it is gone.

I just hope castle gets a full fledged release for a few years again.  A 2013 weak effort with no civilian sets isn't what I want either.  I guess I will wait... and until then my bank account is getting full.

Totally agree about the corporatization of LEGO.  They are making a big mistake.  LEGO benefits greatly from history, tradition, its image of family, and being a generational toy handed down to loved ones.  I feel like that type of sentiment is priceless and can be destroyed by too much greed.  There is already a lot of talk in the AFOL community of how they chew up their employees.  They benefit so much from the free promotion AFOL LEGO shows provide.  I am afraid they may kill the enthusiasm in the LEGO fan community at some point.  I know I don't speak as glowingly about the company to the public at LEGO shows like I used to 15 years ago.

 

[Alexandrina]

19 minutes ago, DaleDVM said:

They benefit so much from the free promotion AFOL LEGO shows provide.  I am afraid they may kill the enthusiasm in the LEGO fan community at some point.  I know I don't speak as glowingly about the company to the public at LEGO shows like I used to 15 years ago.

I don't really think AFOL events are ever going to be what makes or breaks Lego as a company. They're doing just fine in areas where there are not and have never been events, and what is going to be bigger for them is their presence in shops and TV advertising, as well as the brand recognition they have from sixty years making bricks. That won't go away just because they're making less inventive sets. 

[MAB]

23 minutes ago, DaleDVM said:

Totally agree about the corporatization of LEGO.  They are making a big mistake.  LEGO benefits greatly from history, tradition, its image of family, and being a generational toy handed down to loved ones.  I feel like that type of sentiment is priceless and can be destroyed by too much greed.  There is already a lot of talk in the AFOL community of how they chew up their employees.  They benefit so much from the free promotion AFOL LEGO shows provide.  I am afraid they may kill the enthusiasm in the LEGO fan community at some point.  I know I don't speak as glowingly about the company to the public at LEGO shows like I used to 15 years ago.

 

 

 

Revenue and reputation indices seem to say otherwise though.

• LEGO: group revenue 2019 | Statista

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by MAB

[DaleDVM]

Great graph of sales flattening for the past 5 years and a measure of TLG vs other companies instead of vs itself over time.  

Not that any of that would matter anyway.  These metrics will lag behind real time impressions fans have.  By the time you see big changes in these graphs the damage will have already been done.  It is my opinion that by the posts on this and many other threads on these forums and conversations at the largest LEGO fan events, that TLG is not fostering the best relations with their fans.  Your opinion may differ and that is fine.  

Lets get this thread back onto future castle sets.  

[icm]

1 hour ago, DaleDVM said:

 There is already a lot of talk in the AFOL community of how they chew up their employees.  

Wait, what? This is the first time I've heard anything like that.  Well, I guess working at the Lego store at the mall is probably as bad as every other low wage customer facing retail job, but are you saying that employees who work in manufacturing, concept design, graphic design, set design, instructions creation, element design, etc, are also poorly treated?

[MAB]

1 hour ago, DaleDVM said:

Great graph of sales flattening for the past 5 years and a measure of TLG vs other companies instead of vs itself over time.  

Not that any of that would matter anyway.  These metrics will lag behind real time impressions fans have.  By the time you see big changes in these graphs the damage will have already been done.  It is my opinion that by the posts on this and many other threads on these forums and conversations at the largest LEGO fan events, that TLG is not fostering the best relations with their fans.  Your opinion may differ and that is fine. 

LEGO can afford to lose fans, especially those that want them to continue to do things the way they were done in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s. How many LEGO purchases are driven by someone after attending a fan event. I would imagine an incredibly tiny amount. Even hard-core fans can afford to be lost. LEGO is stagnating in Europe and the US not because it is doing badly, but because they have reached saturation. It is probably at a maximum fan level now, more than ever. Which of course is why it is trying to expand in Asia and elsewhere. Do I think corporate LEGO is good? No. I don't think their customer service is great any more. However, their output is still very good, even if they don't make what I want them to make. That they sell out very quickly of sets shows that their supply cannot keep up with demand, which can be seen as a positive (loads of people buying) or negative (they don't produce enough). Should they increase production through new factories? Probably not as they expanded too rapidly on the back of TLM and that lead to job layoffs when that growth did not continue. 

There have been exoduses of fans before. When they first started doing licensed themes, people complaining that SW will ruin LEGO. Same after the colour changes of LG/DG to LBG/DBG, some people stopped buying LEGO. I was too young to notice at the time, but I imagine people also got upset about the introduction of the minifigure and moving away from people-less town plan style builds. Things change. Fans leave all the time, but they have continually been replaced. It would not surprise me if the European and US sales fall in future years, but will be bolstered by Asian sales. And LEGO will probably take that.

1 hour ago, DaleDVM said:

Lets get this thread back onto future castle sets.  

Until the Creator set comes out / is leaked, there is not really much to discuss. Just wants lists and complaints about other licensed and non-licensed themes stopping Castle making a comeback.

Edited February 26, 2021 by MAB

[TheLegoDr]

I know it won't change things, but with our local midwestern convention, our LUG has multiple people into castle, more so than other themes. I know it isn't enough to sway the company, but it keeps the castle interest alive at the shows. We have a large train layout, castle area, then modular buildings and other original works by people.

[Alexandrina]

2 hours ago, DaleDVM said:

Great graph of sales flattening for the past 5 years

I'm sure Lego don't mind too much if their sales are stagnating at five times their level in the early 2000s

[DaleDVM]

Boy people really seem to be taking any criticism of TLG personally.  They also don't seem to understand that we can all have our own opinions and get back on topic. 

Well, I am ready for another several months away from this forum.  Play well...

[Alexandrina]

9 hours ago, DaleDVM said:

Boy people really seem to be taking any criticism of TLG personally.  They also don't seem to understand that we can all have our own opinions and get back on topic. 

We all understand that. You gave your opinion, others gave theirs. However, when you say stuff like:

21 hours ago, DaleDVM said:

There is already a lot of talk in the AFOL community of how they chew up their employees.

It's natural that people want to know more. I can't speak for others, but I personally haven't ever heard what you're saying, and I spend a lot of time in AFOL communities. But rather than corroborating what you're saying - which on the face of it is a rather strong indictment of Lego - you've chosen to take a break from the forum. You'll forgive me, therefore, if I'm not left convinced by your claims. 

But then, that's just my opinion. 

[BigHobbit]

Details on the 3-in-1 set, similar to Black Falcons Castle,  up on Promobricks. No horse, but dragon, buildable chickens, 2 knights and civilian. A water wheel is integrated.

Edited February 27, 2021 by BigHobbit

[MAB]

13 minutes ago, BigHobbit said:

buildable chickens

The downside (or upside, depending on opinion) of Creator is brick building even small animals.

[BigHobbit]

5 minutes ago, MAB said:

The downside (or upside, depending on opinion) of Creator is brick building even small animals.

True, but even the beloved Medieval Market Village came with buildable chickens.

[Lego David]

1500+ pieces for 100$ sounds like a good deal, though the fact that it will only include three figures is a bit disappointing. Fingers crossed that they re-use the Black Falcons torso print from the Blacksmith set instead of some generic Creator torso print. 

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, BigHobbit said:

civilian

Please be a good torso... 

[Lacdaran]

I appreciate the Black Falcons style even with only two knights.  The faction is not surprising given the Blacksmith, but I think overall theming this year's sets as Black Falcon was an inspired choice by LEGO.  Hopefully means a couple extra Black Falcon shields.

I'll just use the brick built animals for parts as I'm not a fan myself, but its a minor thing for me if the rest of the set is good.

My biggest question is whether I can reasonably justify to myself buying three sets so I can display all three builds and have extra knights.

[Alexandrina]

12 minutes ago, Lacdaran said:

I appreciate the Black Falcons style even with only two knights. 

It's possible that there could even be a minor variant in the torso, so it's still fitting perfectly with the faction aesthetic but the figures aren't all carbon copies of one another. 

[BigHobbit]

I'm impressed at the piece count per price. The 3-in-1 Pirate Ship last year had 1265, and this has over 200 pieces more for the same price. Same amount of minifigures, same amount of larger animals (shark vs dragon), a brick-built bird, a skeleton, etc. All match up other than the extra amount of pieces for the castle.

[Roebuck]

1 hour ago, BigHobbit said:

No horse, but dragon, buildable chickens

The horse would have been brickbuilt so not much point anyway

1 hour ago, BigHobbit said:

True, but even the beloved Medieval Market Village came with buildable chickens.

True, but that was only because they did not have the budget to mould them then. They came in 7189 Mill Village Raid a few years later and a similar set as MMV today would never have had brickbuilt animals. To me they and the duck always looked out of place with the moulded animals in the set. However this is Creator 3in1 and they never come with any moulded animals with print anyway, so was not expecting any

[leafan]

Whilst the 3-in-1 build sounds good, I am quite disappointed that there is only 3 minifigures and that they're Black Falcons; since we just had those in the Ideas set.

Hopefully, it won't just be 2 more of the exact same Black Falcon torso from the Ideas set and they'll make some new prints.... but we all know that is not going to happen.