Future Castle Sets?

[gedren_y]

Lego redesigned the over-the-fig ghost mold for Monster Fighters, but I didn't necessarily mean that. Ghosts these days use the dual molded tail piece. For nostalgia, I would think a modern design ghost might be one of the old theme's kings. Okay, now I'm picturing Hamlet in my head.

[MAB]

49 minutes ago, Lego David said:

Sadly, this has zero chance of happening. It is believed that the Ghost Mold has been destroyed, as it was missing from the Hunted House set. In that respective set, we just got a generic ghost figure without the ghost part. I'd imagine if we do get a ghost, it would probably be the same as the one we got in the Hunted House set, but realistically speaking, they'll probably just throw in a generic skeleton.

An alternative explanation is that they just wanted to try out another way of doing ghosts.  If they want to do the shrouds again, no doubt they will. They made a mould for a ghost shroud for Vitruvius that got used in a single set not so long ago.

[Brick_Rattlehead]

On 2/3/2021 at 2:20 AM, Poco Lypso said:

 

I think there is a huge discrepancy between what lego is offering and what fans actually want and its generally a pity lego isnt paying enough attention.

Imo castle or historic builders dont really care about a castle theme like the one we had in 2013. Albeit it would prolly be better than having no sets at all, lol. And I suppose Lego has done their homework and realized kids these days are less into classic themes and more into ninjago-like themes that are accompanied by a tv show. And if I compare a colorful theme like ninjago with the lackluster 2013 sets I won't blame them.

BUT Lego MUST have realized there is a "huge" fanbase that ARE into historic themes and yet they offer NOTHING (I don't really count ideas sets) besides the occasional cmf figures. And thats actually a sad thing. Lego should create historic sets on a regular basis catering to the adult audience. Those sets should be less focused on play features and more on detailed structures and advanced building techniques. Those sets should feature minifigures of all kinds of historic context and the sets should make for amazing parts packs. I am sure these sets would sell and its not unlikely many more adults would come into the fold.

Now you may ask why I am writing about the obvious? It was yesterday that I came across a popular  german youtube channel. The guy in the vids tends to bash lego products (he quite often has a point though) and also presents products by the competition. While browsing through his channel I spotted a couple of sets that made me think: If these were made by Lego I would buy them! And that made me sad. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is true and to me its stupid when everytime I try to discuss about this issue, someone will just pointing how today's kids aint into that kind of stuff and Lego will always go with what's popular. That's saddest part  with today's Lego company mindset and mentallity. Intsead of becoming trend setter, they ended up just following the trend. 

A brand as big as Lego should have become TREND SETTER instead of just following trend and relying on licensed themes! 

Also, there's no such thing as "people aint into medieval/castle themes anymore" .  Well,Tolkien stuff always remains popular in pop culture and in recent years, Game of thrones has been the biggest TV series.

City theme has been coming up with similar stuff over and over with similar colour scheme and design and they still never stop doing it.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Brick_Rattlehead

[Alexandrina]

15 minutes ago, Brick_Rattlehead said:

Well,Tolkien stuff always remains popular in pop culture and in recent years, Game of thrones has been the biggest TV series.

Not only that, video games such as The Witcher and (going back a decade) Skyrim have more in common with the Fantasy Era of Castle than they do with anything currently offered by Lego. I fear the reaction to the Hobbit films might have put them off, but they could probably have had a banner decade with a theme combining the Castle we know and love with just a hint of the fantasy genre which was so popular. I'd love to see them do an in-house Castle theme filled with the crumbling towers and mournful ruins of a society in entropy and decline a la Lord of the Rings or Skyrim.

[Rattlebricks]

20 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Not only that, video games such as The Witcher and (going back a decade) Skyrim have more in common with the Fantasy Era of Castle than they do with anything currently offered by Lego. I fear the reaction to the Hobbit films might have put them off, but they could probably have had a banner decade with a theme combining the Castle we know and love with just a hint of the fantasy genre which was so popular. I'd love to see them do an in-house Castle theme filled with the crumbling towers and mournful ruins of a society in entropy and decline a la Lord of the Rings or Skyrim.

Tons of video games still and will always have medieval & fantasy elements. Games like Warcraft and Diablo are another example. 

Warrior wearing armor plate, shield and melee weapons, blacksmith, castle, fortress, wizard, ... Who the fck would actually say kids today aint into these kind of themes? 

Zelda BOTW sold over 20 million units and its has big medieval & castle/kingdom elements. Yet, Lego never think of reviving Forestman theme.

Now if Lego only aim for 3-8 year old kids then yeah, they might prefer something like chima & ninjago.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Rattlebricks

[Alexandrina]

4 minutes ago, Rattlebricks said:

Yet, Lego never think of reviving Forestman theme.

The Forestmen probably wouldn't work on their own, so unless Lego had two distinct subthemes on the go they might be a hard sell. Most Castle factions are interesting in their own right and the possibility of conflict is a bonus. If the Forestmen don't have another faction to be up against, what are they? A bunch of blokes (and gals) hanging out in the woods, presumably practicing their archery. That's not to say I'd be opposed to a revival, but I wonder if perhaps it would be a hard sell for Lego if they're still unsure about stepping back into the Castle world. Conventional armoured knights and castles are a safer bet.

[GeoBrick]

10 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

That's not to say I'd be opposed to a revival, but I wonder if perhaps it would be a hard sell for Lego if they're still unsure about stepping back into the Castle world. Conventional armoured knights and castles are a safer bet.

Seeing the minifig choices Lego has made for the Medieval Blacksmith set, they indeed seem to take the safer route.
I wouldn't be opposed to see more Falcon Knight minifigs in a rumoured 3-in-1 set though. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by GeoBrick

[Rattlebricks]

36 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

The Forestmen probably wouldn't work on their own, so unless Lego had two distinct subthemes on the go they might be a hard sell. Most Castle factions are interesting in their own right and the possibility of conflict is a bonus. If the Forestmen don't have another faction to be up against, what are they? A bunch of blokes (and gals) hanging out in the woods, presumably practicing their archery. That's not to say I'd be opposed to a revival, but I wonder if perhaps it would be a hard sell for Lego if they're still unsure about stepping back into the Castle world. Conventional armoured knights and castles are a safer bet.

Well, the wolfpack or it could be an additional sets that accompany the main castle sets.

My point is that castle/medieval themes are still and will remain popular in pop culture. However,  Lego simply prefer easier route by doing lisenced themes that guarentee certain number of sales.

Space theme being replaced by SW,  castle being replaced by Harry Potter and LOTR/Hobbit, traditional Piretes replaced by pirates of Carriebean, Lone ranger instead of WWW, Indiana Jones instead of adventure/islamders. They simply  cater to movie fans. 

I like the Forestman & Rogue minifigs from series 1 & 16. A nice nods & upgrade of the old forestman & wolfpack. Now if only we'll get more in future.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Rattlebricks

[Alexandrina]

5 minutes ago, Rattlebricks said:

Indiana Jones instead of adventure/islamders

I always saw Adventurers as Lego trying to do Indiana Jones without having the license. The stock characters are pretty much like for like, even the settings are similar (desert & jungle in Raiders, India in Temple/Orient Expedition). In any case, it was long dead as a theme before Indiana Jones came along, and since Indy died a death way back, if they wanted to bring the Adventurers in they would have. That said, the upcoming Uncharted film might lead to a revival of the genre in the public consciousness and bring about a new Adventurers.

[Aurore]

Out of curiosity, I just checked the Playmobil website : there are at least 6 themes that qualify as medieval-fantasy. Two with knights, one with a more viking flair, and three girly ones with princesses and fairies.
No idea if those sets sell well, but their mere existence would tend to indicate that the kids of today can be interested by such settings.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Rattlebricks said:

 

Zelda BOTW sold over 20 million units and its has big medieval & castle/kingdom elements. Yet, Lego never think of reviving Forestman theme.

Would unlicensed forestmen sell to Zelda fans though? Probably not. They would want licensed Zelda sets.

29 minutes ago, Rattlebricks said:

My point is that castle/medieval themes are still and will remain popular in pop culture. However,  Lego simply prefer easier route by doing lisenced themes that guarentee certain number of sales.

Is it that castle and medieval themes are popular, or that there are popular licenses set in castle / medieval times? 

 

13 minutes ago, Aurore said:

Out of curiosity, I just checked the Playmobil website : there are at least 6 themes that qualify as medieval-fantasy. Two with knights, one with a more viking flair, and three girly ones with princesses and fairies.
No idea if those sets sell well, but their mere existence would tend to indicate that the kids of today can be interested by such settings.

They also do nice ancient Greek gods.

[Poco Lypso]

Imo a major problem is: if they just bring out a new castle/pirates theme similar to what came out 5-6 years ago it will just flop and prove lego right in their assessment.

Why would kids want any such sets? 

Just because its pirates or knights wont make any child want to have it.

Edit: lego is a nerdy hobby. Castle or rather history/historic themes are nerdy. Nerds dont make the majority of kids - like never. Lots of kids prefer a fun tv show, giant mechas and stuff and i doubt they are overly creative with the sets they are getting - and lego is aware of that.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Poco Lypso

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Poco Lypso said:

Imo a major problem is: if they just bring out a new castle/pirates theme similar to what came out 5-6 years ago it will just flop and prove lego right in their assessment.

Why would kids want any such sets? 

Just because its pirates or knights wont make any child want to have it.

Edit: lego is a nerdy hobby. Castle or rather history/historic themes are nerdy. Nerds dont make the majority of kids - like never. Lots of kids prefer a fun tv show, giant mechas and stuff and i doubt they are overly creative with the sets they are getting - and lego is aware of that.

 

So what was wrong with them, and what should be in sets aimed at kids? This is the perennial problem with new versions of old themes.  They have to be different but similar. They have to have loads of stuff wanted by adults but sell well to kids.

[Poco Lypso]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

So what was wrong with them, and what should be in sets aimed at kids? This is the perennial problem with new versions of old themes.  They have to be different but similar. They have to have loads of stuff wanted by adults but sell well to kids.

My point earlier was lego should provide more sophisticated stuff for the adult audience who grew up with classic themes. I believe there is a market there.

And thats how those classic themes can be made popular again. Blacksmith shop is a good start - it should be followed by a few sets that relate to it, with more soldiers and an opposing faction and some village (or princess) rescue set. And next year another big ideas set followed by even more sets. All designed in a way that kids can create their own medieval world. 

And maybe add a tv show? Seriously, just plain old medieval adventure a la zelda or lotr. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Poco Lypso said:

My point earlier was lego should provide more sophisticated stuff for the adult audience who grew up with classic themes. I believe there is a market there.

 

They are already touching on it through ideas. There are also a lot of other AFOL interest themes and LEGO has to get careful not to do too much 18+ sets  at once.

1 hour ago, Poco Lypso said:

And thats how those classic themes can be made popular again. Blacksmith shop is a good start - it should be followed by a few sets that relate to it, with more soldiers and an opposing faction and some village (or princess) rescue set. And next year another big ideas set followed by even more sets. All designed in a way that kids can create their own medieval world. 

And maybe add a tv show? Seriously, just plain old medieval adventure a la zelda or lotr. 

 

They don't need classic themes to be popular again, they need modern themes to be popular. Whether that is modern themes based on their old stuff, or new modern themes.  Blacksmith is not a kids' set, without the small sets castle will never become a kids' theme again. And if they do small sets, people will complain about them being aimed too young again.

Plus if they do a TV show, again people will complain about forced storyline, too cartoon focussed and so on. 

[Poco Lypso]

24 minutes ago, MAB said:

They are already touching on it through ideas. There are also a lot of other AFOL interest themes and LEGO has to get careful not to do too much 18+ sets  at once.

I am not sure about this. Why wouldnt they be careful? They release a new modular building every once in a while. They could do the same with an adult castle line. I can buy 4 sets per year or one set every 4 years.

32 minutes ago, MAB said:

Blacksmith is not a kids' set, without the small sets castle will never become a kids' theme again. And if they do small sets, people will complain about them being aimed too young again.

Indeed. It will be very hard to sell those sets nowadays. Thats why adults as target audience needs to be chosen. Creating smaller sets which have some play features that kids COULD have fun with while at the same time providing parts and figs adults could use.

38 minutes ago, MAB said:

They don't need classic themes to be popular again, they need modern themes to be popular. Whether that is modern themes based on their old stuff, or new modern themes.

I am honestly not sure what your point is here. 

I thought this discussion was about us and what we would like lego to produce and sell to us, lol. 

Just out of curiosity, which modern themes are YOU buying atm? Because for me there really isn't anything out there and I am not the guy who spends tons of money on a harry potter set just because there is one torso that I would like.

 

 

 

[Brick_Rattlehead]

13 hours ago, MAB said:

So what was wrong with them, and what should be in sets aimed at kids? This is the perennial problem with new versions of old themes.  They have to be different but similar. They have to have loads of stuff wanted by adults but sell well to kids.

 

There's nothing wrong with it. City theme is basically the same stuff every single year, and people still buy it. Ninjago can be successful because Lego is willing to spend big $$ to push and promote the theme.  There's TV series, there's magazine   there's video game , accessories sets etc. So Lego is basically able to  create a trend that makes today's kids deem Ninjago as "Cool".

Does Lego ever do this for Castle or Pirate themes many years ago? absolutely not. So as for how Lego will be able to sell new castle theme to current generation... that's their problem to solve. Otherwise, just go for easy route....license themes.

 

 

[MAB]

8 hours ago, Poco Lypso said:

I am honestly not sure what your point is here. 

I thought this discussion was about us and what we would like lego to produce and sell to us, lol. 

Just out of curiosity, which modern themes are YOU buying atm? Because for me there really isn't anything out there and I am not the guy who spends tons of money on a harry potter set just because there is one torso that I would like.

 

The point is that they don't really care about how well old themes sell. They care about how well current themes sell. It doesn't matter to LEGO whether current themes are based on an old themes or completely new ideas, all that matters is that they sell. If they think something new is going to do better than reviving an old theme, then they will do the new thing.

What am I buying? Mainly parts. I buy SW when cheap enough, as the figures sell off easily and they provide cheap grey and other muted colour parts reasonably cheaply.

8 hours ago, Poco Lypso said:

Indeed. It will be very hard to sell those sets nowadays. Thats why adults as target audience needs to be chosen. Creating smaller sets which have some play features that kids COULD have fun with while at the same time providing parts and figs adults could use.

This is often the problem though - especially with figures - making them attractive to both adults and kids. Many of the recent (as in past 15 years) torsos have been criticized for being too cartoony or simplistic, similarly complaints of too many soldiers and not enough civilians. Aiming for both child toys and AFOLs at the same time is not always as easy as it looks.

 

[Brick_Rattlehead]

11 hours ago, Poco Lypso said:

My point earlier was lego should provide more sophisticated stuff for the adult audience who grew up with classic themes. I believe there is a market there.

And thats how those classic themes can be made popular again. Blacksmith shop is a good start - it should be followed by a few sets that relate to it, with more soldiers and an opposing faction and some village (or princess) rescue set. And next year another big ideas set followed by even more sets. All designed in a way that kids can create their own medieval world. 

And maybe add a tv show? Seriously, just plain old medieval adventure a la zelda or lotr. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually like Clutch powers. Its a blend of city, space and castle themes and its a cool adventure movie. However, they certainly didnt  promote or treat it as blockbuster movie from the get go. I think  Lego should have at least a CGI TV series for Castle or Pirate theme to accompanny the sets and put some trailer on their official youtube channel.

[MAB]

1 minute ago, Brick_Rattlehead said:

There's nothing wrong with it. City theme is basically the same stuff every single year, and people still buy it. Ninjago can be successful because Lego is willing to spend big $$ to push and promote the theme.  There's TV series, there's magazine   there's video game , accessories sets etc. So Lego is basically able to  create a trend that makes today's kids deem Ninjago as "Cool".

Does Lego ever do this for Castle or Pirate themes many years ago? absolutely not. So as for how Lego will be able to sell new castle theme to current generation... that's their problem to solve. Otherwise, just go for easy route....license themes.

There was some storyline to Castle and Pirates, plus TV adverts and the odd comic or book. And that was at a time that media tie-ins were not really done at all. It is a different environment now compared to 20 or 40 years ago. Could Castle or Pirates have a TV tie-in now? Of course. Will it be as popular as Ninjago (or City or Friends of Chima or Nexo Knights) - maybe, maybe not. However, AFOLs would probably complain if there was one that having a cartoon media tie-in has made any sets too kid focused.

[Brick_Rattlehead]

Those short TV ads and short stories were more like  formality rather than a real big budget promotion. Its merely like announcing  "here, there's a new  Lego sets coming out" in comparison to what they're doing with Ninjago, which continuously being promoted.

[The_Creator]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

This is often the problem though - especially with figures - making them attractive to both adults and kids. Many of the recent (as in past 15 years) torsos have been criticized for being too cartoony or simplistic, similarly complaints of too many soldiers and not enough civilians. Aiming for both child toys and AFOLs at the same time is not always as easy as it looks.

I honestly thought Kingdoms did a good job on all but the one Dragon Knights torso in being attractive to kids and useful to adults - having sets from a basic Knights Showdown to the Joust. KKII was very KFOL, the 2008 Castle good guys were fairly KFOL in torso designs, and the 2015 Castle was far more KFOL oriented than Kingdoms.

I don't see why TLG can't create modern castle factions that elude to past ones (Black Falcons, Forestmen, Wolfpack, ect.) and sell a range of sets that appeal to KFOLs/TFOLs/AFOLs. AFOLs can purchase as nostalgic and parts packs, and kids can purchase them because they like them. It's literally a win-win and taps into two markets at once, but I don't work for TLG and I don't know their marketing research. Lol

[MAB]

12 hours ago, Brick_Rattlehead said:

Those short TV ads and short stories were more like  formality rather than a real big budget promotion. Its merely like announcing  "here, there's a new  Lego sets coming out" in comparison to what they're doing with Ninjago, which continuously being promoted.

Yes, but they often introduced a little bit of storyline. But think what would happen with Castle if they did a media tie in. That would mean a small group of named characters, probably with specific torso prints or colours, being repeated again and again in sets. They did that with Ninjago, Chima, Nexo Knights, Friends, Elves, Monkie Kid, even City to some extent. It's a model that works. 

[Poco Lypso]

13 hours ago, MAB said:

 

The point is that they don't really care about how well old themes sell. They care about how well current themes sell. It doesn't matter to LEGO whether current themes are based on an old themes or completely new ideas, all that matters is that they sell. If they think something new is going to do better than reviving an old theme, then they will do the new thing.

What am I buying? Mainly parts. I buy SW when cheap enough, as the figures sell off easily and they provide cheap grey and other muted colour parts reasonably cheaply.

This is often the problem though - especially with figures - making them attractive to both adults and kids. Many of the recent (as in past 15 years) torsos have been criticized for being too cartoony or simplistic, similarly complaints of too many soldiers and not enough civilians. Aiming for both child toys and AFOLs at the same time is not always as easy as it looks.

 

I think lego is overthinking it at times. We got so many licensed themes where designers have to stay true to the source material - these tend to appeal to both adults and kids. And then u have lego original themes which are either hit or miss. I agree it can be difficult to put medieval civilians into the context of a set and its much easier to just have two factions of soldiers fighting each other but its not impossible as sets of the pasts have shown. Variety of themes and limited parents' budgets might also be a thing. Some kids can only get few sets per year and will prolly aim for the most popular.

 

[Brick_Rattlehead]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Yes, but they often introduced a little bit of storyline. But think what would happen with Castle if they did a media tie in. That would mean a small group of named characters, probably with specific torso prints or colours, being repeated again and again in sets. They did that with Ninjago, Chima, Nexo Knights, Friends, Elves, Monkie Kid, even City to some extent. It's a model that works. 

Yes, the media tie in is important these days , that's why I suggested a TV series like Ninjago with trailer of the episodes being uploaded on Lego youtube channel. As for named characters, I believe some of the old castle/kingdomes minifigs also has name (Majisto, Leo, Mathias, Vladek, Danju, Basil), but obviously it was never planned as long running series unlike NInjago, Chima and Nexo. 

As for limited budgets of the parents, this wouldnt be a problem if they ever come up with new Castle theme (with proper and bigger promotion) that is aimed for adult fans. These people  (including many of us here) would even buy multiple of the same sets.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Brick_Rattlehead