Future Castle Sets?

[x105Black]

1 hour ago, rodiziorobs said:

It seems like this is the kind of approach TLG is taking with the HP sets, where we are hearing that the great hall won't be repeated in the full castle, and that the whomping willow set will connect, etc. From the sound of it, each playset will be completely able to stand by itself and feel complete and unique, but can also be made into part of a larger whole.

I hope they do this with a medieval castle line next time we get one of those. A 2000 piece castle could exist as the flagship of a castle theme while the theme offered plenty of complete play scenarios that would satisfy lower budgets.

As far as the Harry Potter thing goes, the rumor about no Great Hall in the full Hogwarts isn't confirmed, and honestly the Hogwarts would feel incomplete for a $500 set if it lacked a major component of the castle structure.  But I do see what you're getting at.

I'd love to see a nice Castle theme where all of the sets can fit together via Technic pins, creating a more unified kingdom.  Pirates 2015 did this as well.  And topping off a complete Castle theme like that with a large flagship Castle set would work wonders.  This way, children and adults can enjoy a fleshed out theme with sets across price points that all work well together, and adults will be happy to see a large D2C set with a higher difficulty level, like the Tower of Orthanc was for the Lord of the Rings theme.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, SirBlake said:

I doubt that your posting in this thread would prove that, but in the interest of being constructive, what is your suggestion to move forward? What's your kid-focused castle theme look like, regardless of what the average AFOL may want?

What do I think would sell? Something along the lines of a re-hash of 2010 Kingdoms or any one year of Fantasy Era. So something like a 1000 piece castle _with panels_ as the flagship set - so equivalent to the old King's Castle - with two further buildings sets, one a goodies' building (makes a good substitute castle if they cannot afford the actual castle) and the other a baddies' building - so equivalents of outpost attack and prison tower from kingdoms or drawbridge defence or tower raid from fantasy era - then a couple of small vehicle sets, something like a carriage for the king and a siege tower or more likely a catapult or ballista for the baddies, and hopefully a battle pack. If we are lucky, maybe a dragon or a troll or some other large creature in one of the sets. Retain the castle for two more years, with a couple of new buildings sets (~250-500 piece, similar to the towers) in the second year and maybe build up to something like MMV after three years if year 1 was popular, supplemented with a couple more smaller sets that year. But I wouldn't go any more adult aimed for techniques than MMV, which was 12+. Then repeat the cycle but changing the theme so if originally medieval, go to fantasy or similar. So pretty much like the decade 2003-2013. Kid focussed for techniques and play features, similar sets in each theme across the range of price points.

No doubt adults wouldn't like the castles, not realistic enough and too many panels, but these make building relatively quick and easy for the kids, and mean that they don't have to pester parents to help (as not all adults want to have to help their kids). The towers or other buildings would probably be more popular than the castle with adults if they contained bricks for MOCing. The vehicles would be completely shunned by adults as totally unnecessary but loved by kids for play value.

 

[SirBlake]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

What do I think would sell? Something along the lines of...

So basically standard Castle theme operating procedure. Sounds good to me. 

[Aanchir]

On 3/9/2018 at 10:22 AM, rodiziorobs said:

I don't see a need to aim as high as $100, even. One of my favorite sets growing up was this:

It is essentially a wall.

A wall.

Yet the playability was there as if it were a full castle. The wall was hinged in sections so that you could change the shape, and of course had modular connections in the ends--all castle sets at the time did, so you could combine them. I never did, though because I didn't need to.

Inside the wall was a little jail cell, and outside there was the invading force with a catapult. Best of all there were enough figures for each side to actually have a mini-siege.

I am so glad to hear from an AFOL who appreciates sets like this! I hear the “it’s just a wall/facade!” criticism leveled against so many modern sets, from https://brickset.com/sets/76088-1/Thor-vs-Hulk-Arena-Clash to https://brickset.com/sets/70591-1/Kryptarium-Prison-Breakout to https://brickset.com/sets/79007-1/Battle-at-the-Black-Gate. Not to mention the even broader attacks on any building that’s not fully enclosed. Sometimes a wall really is all you need to set the scene for a fun play scenarios, and even some classic sets can attest to that.

[SirBlake]

There’s so much talk about how hard it is to satisfy the castle AFOL, but I would totally be happy with a modern take on 6059 with new, well designed heraldry. 

I’d just by 8-10 of them and build the kingdom myself. 

[ElectroDiva]

6 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I am so glad to hear from an AFOL who appreciates sets like this! I hear the “it’s just a wall/facade!” criticism leveled against so many modern sets, from https://brickset.com/sets/76088-1/Thor-vs-Hulk-Arena-Clash to https://brickset.com/sets/70591-1/Kryptarium-Prison-Breakout to https://brickset.com/sets/79007-1/Battle-at-the-Black-Gate. Not to mention the even broader attacks on any building that’s not fully enclosed. Sometimes a wall really is all you need to set the scene for a fun play scenarios, and even some classic sets can attest to that.

 

I think wall/partial building sets sometimes get criticised as they are perceived as poor value props for selling the figs that are hard to re-use for anything else.

 

79007 Battle at the Black Gate was the same price as 76088 Thor vs Arena clash at about $60 - yet the former is a much better value set and much easier to re-use due to the color palette.

 

For the record, i’d also buy multiples of a reissue of 6059 with new heraldry - so you have at least 3 AFOLs just in this thread who can appreciate a well executed and good value wall/partial building set.

Edited March 11, 2018 by ElectroDiva

[MAB]

On 09/03/2018 at 8:11 PM, SirBlake said:

So basically standard Castle theme operating procedure. Sounds good to me. 

Well, at least until 2013! Obviously LOTR and The Hobbit got in the way a bit, then NK came along. Although NK would fit into that type of plan, it is castle in one extreme just not historical castle.

 

3 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

I think wall/partial building sets sometimes get criticised as they are perceived as poor value props for selling the figs that are hard to re-use for anything else.

79007 Battle at the Black Gate was the same price as 76088 Thor vs Arena clash at about $60 - yet the former is a much better value set and much easier to re-use due to the color palette.

Quite a few of the LOTR and especially Hobbit sets were like this, decent parts packs, due to the colour pallette used across the theme. From the little Beorn set, Mirkwood Elves, even the big Dol Guldur one. 

10 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I am so glad to hear from an AFOL who appreciates sets like this! I hear the “it’s just a wall/facade!” criticism leveled against so many modern sets, from https://brickset.com/sets/76088-1/Thor-vs-Hulk-Arena-Clash to https://brickset.com/sets/70591-1/Kryptarium-Prison-Breakout to https://brickset.com/sets/79007-1/Battle-at-the-Black-Gate. Not to mention the even broader attacks on any building that’s not fully enclosed. Sometimes a wall really is all you need to set the scene for a fun play scenarios, and even some classic sets can attest to that.

Exactly. Smallish, affordable sets that will appeal mainly to kids but also to minifigure collectors (particularly if licensed theme) and still remain good parts packs for adults that MOC. Everyone's idea of what a big castle should look like is very different, and why a very large afol aimed castle set probably wouldn't work so well. This is different to the large sets that work well in licensed themes. Everyone knows what a large Millennium Falcon should look like, or what the Helicarrier, GB firehouse, Disney Castle, Simpsons House, etc should look like. 

[x105Black]

I would also support a redesigned or updated version of the 6059 Knight's Stronghold.  I was a big fan of the Black Gate set from Lord of the Rings, and in many ways it was an updated version of 6059.  I believe it may also have been made for a slightly higher age range.

The age range of the Fantasy Era sets and the Tolkien sets would be a better starting point than typical Castle sets.  It is only a year or 2 beyond the typical Castle range, but creates more nuanced builds with more sophisticated techniques while keeping the lay features.  Nexo Knights and Ninjago are also in this age range, so it's not completely impossible or illogical.

The age range doesn't have to be raised completely to an AFOL age to be more favored by an AFOL audience.  Castle can still be aimed at children while having more AFOL appeal.  It seems to me that raising the lower end of the range by a year or 2 is all that would be necessary. 

[The_Cook]

The nice thing about the early castles (the true "Classic" castles in my mind) were that they could be combined. Whilst 6059, 6061 and 6062 all had playability in their own right from the seige perspective; they could also be incorporated into the big castles. This is something I've missed in the modern castles.

[Aanchir]

6 hours ago, The_Cook said:

The nice thing about the early castles (the true "Classic" castles in my mind) were that they could be combined. Whilst 6059, 6061 and 6062 all had playability in their own right from the seige perspective; they could also be incorporated into the big castles. This is something I've missed in the modern castles.

https://brickset.com/sets/70402-1/The-Gatehouse-Raid could be combined with the larger https://brickset.com/sets/70404-1/King-s-Castle, and https://brickset.com/sets/70324-1/Merlok-s-Library-2-0 could be combined with https://brickset.com/sets/70317-1/The-Fortrex, so I wouldn’t say LEGO has abandoned this idea… in fact, given that a lot of the latest Pirates sets combined in a similar way, I’d say they’re quite likely to revisit it!

[BrickJagger]

Modularity is actually better suited for Castle than any other theme, if you think about it. I've always liked what Lego has put out in terms of modular-style builds but wish that the modern themes could run longer so we could see the concept explored further. I think that if Castle 2013 had a second wave with a few shops that integrated into the wall, even just one or two, it would have been viewed in a far more favorable light. At least over here, I know we're all suckers for peasants. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by BrickJagger

[Faefrost]

54 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

https://brickset.com/sets/70402-1/The-Gatehouse-Raid could be combined with the larger https://brickset.com/sets/70404-1/King-s-Castle, and https://brickset.com/sets/70324-1/Merlok-s-Library-2-0 could be combined with https://brickset.com/sets/70317-1/The-Fortrex, so I wouldn’t say LEGO has abandoned this idea… in fact, given that a lot of the latest Pirates sets combined in a similar way, I’d say they’re quite likely to revisit it!

The only thing that was a little annoying was you really kind of needed 2 Gatehouse Raids to work properly with the Kings Castle and balance the whole thing somewhat. Which granted made for a really great Castle. Much like plugging 2 or 3 Orc Attack sets onto Helm’s Deep. 

[Digger of Bricks]

Quote

Some questions about miscellaneous themes that aren't released anymore or aren't released at all. I'm referring to, for example, Classic Space or  Western themes, castles stuff like that. There are loads of things that aren't in current themes which could be released in Creator Expert. Do you consider making a castle or some Classic Space set in Expert?
We definitely considered it. And it's similar to trains. For example, the Modular Buildings are actually part of the idea that they appeal to castle fans even though it's not a castle. It's a great way to get a lot of the parts that you would need to build a castle. Maybe more so with the older ones than with the newer ones where it got a little bit more wild with the colors, but I definitely wouldn't rule out Classic LEGO Themes. One of the questions that we have though with those is like with Classic Space is, was it so popular because there was no Star Wars? I mean when that was released there was no LEGO Star Wars. So that was the best LEGO spaceship that you could have. But now you could have the UCS Snow Speeder. So then how can we sell a classic spaceship. Will it live on nostalgia alone?Actually we begun some research to try to figure out just how powerful LEGO nostalgia is. There's some hesitation to just put a lot of faith in that, but it's not out of the question.

 

[x105Black]

I don't think it needed to be posted in multiple threads, but thank you for sharing.

To the comments about Modulars appealing to Castle fans, they definitely do.  Of course, I agree that they do not appeal as much currently because of more focus on modern things and brighter colors.  That said, I'm glad they are considering the idea of having Castle themed Expert modulars.

[Artanis I]

They might appeal to one side of Castle-fanry, but not to building factions/armies or to augmenting a theme collection with new sets, so that's too bad. If you just want heaps of useful bricks to build dioramas or complicated models with, then you are a bit more happy, in fact there are plenty of resources for that in other themes & Bricklink, as already discussed plenty of times.

[x105Black]

Yes, a wonderful point.  This strategy does nothing for Castle minifigures fans, and there aren't enough CMF offerings to fill that void.

[gedren_y]

Yeah. Piffle on that!

[BrickJagger]

Modular Buildings are not Castles. Trying to relate them to Castles other than putting out a Castle inspired modular is...silly to say the least. There's nothing out right now that appeals to us Lego, you can go ahead and admit it. Make up for it next year!

[x105Black]

It is interesting to see, though, that there's clearly a disconnect between what Castle fans want (in many variations), and what LEGO thinks will appeal to us.

[MAB]

7 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Modular Buildings are not Castles. Trying to relate them to Castles other than putting out a Castle inspired modular is...silly to say the least.

 

I don't think they were saying they are. They said they had considered making a castle (amongst other things) in Creator Expert. And that castle fans like (some) modulars as they contain good castle parts, which again is true: brick bank, town hall, fire brigade are all good castle packs. I don't think they are relating them to castles, just that (some) castle fans, the ones that MOC, find them useful.

Of course, if they considered it an chose not to do anything about it is not a good sign. It says there is no business case for it, at least right now. If they are researching whether nostalgia will drive sales then it may be better in the future, depending on what their research finds. I imagine their recent experiments with those small anniversary sets show that nostalgia driven sets sell well, so long as they are highly limited. But then all highly limited sets sell well.

[gedren_y]

Nostalgia sets alone won't do well enough, not if they go the route that the Pirates nostalgia sets are going. They need something to truly appeal to the core Lego demographic (not us). Hopefully we will get some leaks somewhere between June and August to confirm our supposition that a more traditional Castle theme is planned for 2019.

[rodiziorobs]

I understood the modular-castle connection to be based on the typical buying demographic. Those who would buy castles are likely AFOLs with larger disposable income who enjoy seeing advanced building techniques. If TLG makes castles for them, then they only sell to castle fans; of TLG makes modulars they can sell to castle fans and everybody else.

I am not saying this is my view, or even that I agree with this, it is just what I understood to be TLG's perspective when I read that part of the interview.

[gedren_y]

I get the logic. One of the reasons I say 'piffle' is the 'disposable income' assumption. The need for heraldry and figs that can be acquired in quantity for a reasonable price is another.

[Aanchir]

On 3/14/2018 at 1:11 PM, rodiziorobs said:

I understood the modular-castle connection to be based on the typical buying demographic. Those who would buy castles are likely AFOLs with larger disposable income who enjoy seeing advanced building techniques. If TLG makes castles for them, then they only sell to castle fans; of TLG makes modulars they can sell to castle fans and everybody else.

I am not saying this is my view, or even that I agree with this, it is just what I understood to be TLG's perspective when I read that part of the interview.

This was my understanding of that statement as well. Not that modular buildings scratch the Castle itch specifically, just just that the audience for modular buildings encompasses a lot of the same audience that a Creator Expert castle would have. LEGO probably doesn't want to double-dip too much — after all, it's already been a widespread complaint among AFOLs that LEGO is releasing too many high-dollar exclusives. Release additional exclusives that appeal chiefly to a subset of the audience the existing exclusives have, and you risk that subset buying the new exclusives instead of (rather than in addition to) the exclusives they would have otherwise bought.

After all, Creator Expert is not a particularly large product line, all things considered, nor does it have a particularly big audience compared to themes like Ninjago, City, or Friends that are more accessible to younger buyers. And as of late the LEGO Group is already testing the limits of their growth. They can't automatically assume that if they just throw another exclusive on top of their usual lineup the number of new buyers or net spending of existing buyers will grow accordingly.

[zoth33]

On 3/14/2018 at 5:30 AM, x105Black said:

It is interesting to see, though, that there's clearly a disconnect between what Castle fans want (in many variations), and what LEGO thinks will appeal to us.

You do realize its a toy for children.  I know they have some sets for us afols but its mainly for a younger audience.  I get that we all want what we want.  And they said they have adult study groups but that also depends on their preferences and what they like to build which alot of afols build city, trains, modular, star wars, etc.  Not all afols like castle.  I mean the people at LEGO aren't stupid they have a solid product that reaches millions. I think they know what they are doing.  Look at some of the new FB/Harry Potter sets coming out, I think they are pretty sweet looking with alot of great parts.  I think if we are just patient we will see something special for us castle fans.  These things take time to develop just give it time.