Future Castle Sets?

[x105Black]

3 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

Could you link an image to that? I haven't heard about that piece. 

I assume it's this one.  And yeah, it'd be great to see it in greys, among other colors like black and browns.

Edited February 9, 2018 by x105Black
Added another image and link.

[BrickJagger]

Just now, x105Black said:

I assume it's this one.  And yeah, it'd be great to see it in greys, among other colors like black and browns.

Thanks. Are there door hinges on the inside? That would make it even better.

[x105Black]

I don't believe so, but I don't actually have the piece so I couldn't tell you for sure.

[gedren_y]

I'm betting there will eventually be a trans part that fits into the arch shape that could be printed, or stickered, to make a stained glass window.

[dgherko]

Pop culture is hitting the fringe of castle.  Renewed interest in templar knights, vikings could drive something not to mention game of thrones and a potential new "train your dragon" movie.  Any historical theme would be welcome at this point.  After the licenced factions, they need to have two solid play themes.  Just have to have a little faith.

Edited February 9, 2018 by dgherko

[Faefrost]

2 hours ago, dgherko said:

Pop culture is hitting the fringe of castle.  Renewed interest in templar knights, vikings could drive something not to mention game of thrones and a potential new "train your dragon" movie.  Any historical theme would be welcome at this point.  After the licenced factions, they need to have two solid play themes.  Just have to have a little faith.

The problem is all of the pop culture things things that would and could drive Castle interest are almost exclusively very very adult properties. There is no sign of this stuff in kid friendly media. It's just hardcore adult focused modern tele drama, grimdark with wall to wall boobies and bits getting chopped off. How to Train Your Dragon is about the only kid friendly bright spot on the horizon. But I can't see Game of Thrones, Vikings or that Knights Templar show driving much kid level Lego interest. The last kid friendly property to really push that envelope was Lord of the Rings (we will not speak of The Hobbit movies. Nope nope nope! I'm not listening LALALALA! Remember we are driving kids to like and want the subject matter.) 

[MAB]

7 hours ago, Faefrost said:

The problem is all of the pop culture things things that would and could drive Castle interest are almost exclusively very very adult properties. There is no sign of this stuff in kid friendly media. It's just hardcore adult focused modern tele drama, grimdark with wall to wall boobies and bits getting chopped off. How to Train Your Dragon is about the only kid friendly bright spot on the horizon. But I can't see Game of Thrones, Vikings or that Knights Templar show driving much kid level Lego interest. The last kid friendly property to really push that envelope was Lord of the Rings (we will not speak of The Hobbit movies. Nope nope nope! I'm not listening LALALALA! Remember we are driving kids to like and want the subject matter.) 

LOTR is hardly kid friendly though, it is just as violent as the others but without boobies.

 

[Bricked1980]

51 minutes ago, MAB said:

LOTR is hardly kid friendly though, it is just as violent as the others but without boobies.

Game of Thrones is in a different league to LOTR. Even if you take away the nudity you've still got the bad language, violent beheadings, throat slitttings, main characters having their heads exploded and young girls being burned alive to name but a few. Despite this I would absolutely love to see Lego sets based on Game of Thrones.

Speaking of LOTR, Amazon have bought the rights to produce a TV series prequel based on Tolkien's stories. This wont be out for a couple of years but I wonder if there could eventually be any Lego sets to tie in with this?

Edited February 9, 2018 by Bricked1980

[x105Black]

As great as licensed sets would be, they aren't Castle sets.  Also, take all that other stuff out of Game of Thrones and you still have complex characters and mature themes.

Edited February 9, 2018 by x105Black

[gedren_y]

The point about popular culture penetration is an important one. Think about the kinds of popular media that exist for the general target age range that most Lego sets fall within. A classic style Castle theme just isn't going to have that right now. Without the 'Big Bang' treatment the next Castle theme will need some kind of hook to make the sets relatable to something they know.

[x105Black]

I get what you're saying, but I don't know if that's necessarily true.  When I was a kid, Castle LEGO was what got me into the fantasy genre.  After building with Castle LEGO, I started reading books like The Castle in The Attic, The Hobbit, and Dragonlance novels.  I started looking into Dungeons & Dragons, played Magic the Gathering, and other such things.  Because of my childhood love for Castle LEGO, I'm into the Lord of the Rings movies and Game of Thrones.

[gedren_y]

Yes, but you have to consider that today's children have more forms of entertainment vying for their attention than in the 80s and 90s. Cable television had less children's dedicated programming, and video gaming wasn't as widespread, or interest targeted. Physical manipulative play was a greater norm than it has become in the past two decades.

[Hive]

I don't quite get the argument that Castle is too generic and needs a specific hook to catch kids of today. Sure, if we look at hits like Ninjago, Chima and Elves that's certainly the case; they get a story, named characters and tv shows... but look at City, then. That's pretty much as generic as they come. If kids can play with generic policemen and robbers - why shouldn't they be able to play with generic knights?

[x105Black]

Again, I see where you're coming from.  And it's true, there is a lot of media out there these days.  But I remember being absorbed in media as a child in the 80s, too.  There were a lot of choices from books, movies, TV, cartoons, comic books, and video games to get lost in.  Still, I found that LEGO drew me in.  And I agree with Hive's statements about City.  The ambiguous, generic nature of a non-licensed theme like Castle allowed me to connect with and fostered my interest in all of that media.

[Digger of Bricks]

44 minutes ago, Hive said:

I don't quite get the argument that Castle is too generic and needs a specific hook to catch kids of today. Sure, if we look at hits like Ninjago, Chima and Elves that's certainly the case; they get a story, named characters and tv shows... but look at City, then. That's pretty much as generic as they come. If kids can play with generic policemen and robbers - why shouldn't they be able to play with generic knights?

Exactly, as I've heard @LegoMonorailFan make the exact same argument for Space in the past too.

Now some may argue that City is an exception only because its current setting and subjects are familiar and relevant in everyday life to most kids; but with Castle, I think that too is still a very relevant archetypical story and setting that's still very prevalent in most children's media. It's not gone the way of the Dodo bird like other popular historical genres, much like the American West of the late 1800's back in the 1950's.

[Trekkie99]

1 minute ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Exactly, as I've heard @LegoMonorailFan make the exact same argument for Space in the past too.

Now some may argue that City is an exception only because its current setting and subjects are familiar and relevant in everyday life to most kids; but with Castle, I think that too is still a very relevant archetypical story and setting that's still very prevalent in most children's media. It's not gone the way of the Dodo bird like other popular historical genres, much like the American West of the late 1800's back in the 1950's.

Agreed 100%.

[x105Black]

Exactly, stories about Castles and Knights and Royal Families are ubiquitous.  Any pre-schooler is immersed in that kind of content from Fairy Tales, Fables, Disney, and King Arthur.  I don't think they need a hook to bring kids into a medieval setting.  Castle is so accessible that they've made waves of Duplo Castle sets.

[Grover]

1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Exactly, as I've heard @LegoMonorailFan make the exact same argument for Space in the past too.

Now some may argue that City is an exception only because its current setting and subjects are familiar and relevant in everyday life to most kids; but with Castle, I think that too is still a very relevant archetypical story and setting that's still very prevalent in most children's media. It's not gone the way of the Dodo bird like other popular historical genres, much like the American West of the late 1800's back in the 1950's.

I agree as well.  I would like to further point out that medieval buildings and castles are commonplace across Europe, so they actually are familiar and relevant in everyday life there. 

Personally, my favorite genre growing up was Castle, followed by Town (now City).  I liked these because they were generic and allowed my imagination to make up stories and factions for the buildings that I created.  I never bought the licensed sets because they seemed more like playsets to me.  I then entered my dark ages and missed out on the Kingdoms, Vikings, and some of the other really cool sets, but I'm making up for that now via Bricklink.

Although my story and others are anecdotal, I feel that not all children now are so affected by the pervasive media environment.  In point of fact, one of my friends has 4 boys, ages 10-15 right now.  All of them still love Lego.  Three of the four, however, prefer generic sets and the 3 in 1 creator sets to everything else.  The other loves the branded things (SW, etc.).  I'd be interested to see how the focus groups are picked, what demographics (urban, rural, incomes, etc.) are pursued.  I wouldn't be surprised to see that they were overlooking part of their customer base.  For instance, we are discussing Lego here, but we must remember that we are a specific demographic: internet users who care enough about Lego to sign up and discuss it on boards.

[Hive]

I know these are different times compared to when I was a kid myself - but I don't think we should underestimate the imagination of children even in this digital age.

[Bricked1980]

12 hours ago, x105Black said:

I get what you're saying, but I don't know if that's necessarily true.  When I was a kid, Castle LEGO was what got me into the fantasy genre.  After building with Castle LEGO, I started reading books like The Castle in The Attic, The Hobbit, and Dragonlance novels.  I started looking into Dungeons & Dragons, played Magic the Gathering, and other such things.  Because of my childhood love for Castle LEGO, I'm into the Lord of the Rings movies and Game of Thrones.

Same with me. As a child I was captivated by lego castle and as I grew up this developed in to a deep interest in medieval history which I still have today.

10 hours ago, Hive said:

I don't quite get the argument that Castle is too generic and needs a specific hook to catch kids of today. Sure, if we look at hits like Ninjago, Chima and Elves that's certainly the case; they get a story, named characters and tv shows... but look at City, then. That's pretty much as generic as they come. If kids can play with generic policemen and robbers - why shouldn't they be able to play with generic knights?

I agree 100%. I spent many hours as a child playing with my sets and creating my own characters and scenarios. I didn't need a pre-fabricated story to keep me happy. I had something much more powerful than that. It's called a child's imagination.

I do appreciate that we live in a different world these days and children have so much different media thrust at them constantly and trends and interests change all the time. But were things so different when we were kids? No not really.

It's amazing to think the original castle theme survived for 20 years before it was retired in 1998. This would be almost unheard of with toys nowadays. I know that lego have to change and adapt to try and keep up with the fast pace of today's media and trends but I think it's important they still make room for these traditional generic themes that don't need a storyline, spin off media and cartoons to support them.

These are the themes that lego will be most fondly remembered for. I wonder if today's kids will still be logging in to eurobricks in 30 years time to remember and discuss their old batman the movie lego sets, I doubt they will to be honest.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Bricked1980

[Aanchir]

11 hours ago, x105Black said:

Exactly, stories about Castles and Knights and Royal Families are ubiquitous.  Any pre-schooler is immersed in that kind of content from Fairy Tales, Fables, Disney, and King Arthur.  I don't think they need a hook to bring kids into a medieval setting.  Castle is so accessible that they've made waves of Duplo Castle sets.

Where pop culture plays a big role, though, is in keeping these things exciting beyond the preschool age range. Disney movies do an OK job of that, for what it's worth, but then again, Disney is already its own theme, and one that Castle builders seem largely disinterested in.

1 hour ago, Bricked1980 said:

It's amazing to think the original castle theme survived for 20 years before it was retired in 1998. This would be almost unheard of with toys nowadays. I know that lego have to change and adapt to try and keep up with the fast pace of today's media and trends but I think it's important they still make room for these traditional generic themes that don't need a storyline, spin off media and cartoons to support them.

The original Castle theme's longevity is not nearly such an anomaly when you recognize that it was broken down into MANY product lines. You claim it ended in 1998, but when you're already considering all those disparate Castle brands part of the same overarching theme, there's no reason Knights' Kingdom I could not be considered part of that same lineage (and Knights' Kingdom II, as well, though there was a break in between, possibly to avoid competition with the then brand-new Harry Potter sets).

1 hour ago, Bricked1980 said:

These are the themes that lego will be most fondly remembered for. I wonder if today's kids will still be logging in to eurobricks in 30 years time to remember and discuss their old batman the movie lego sets, I doubt they will to be honest.

If they're not, it will probably have more to do with the way fandoms congregate online than anything else. Already the fandoms for newer brands like LEGO Ninjago tend to be more concentrated on social media like Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram than on forums. But I also think you severely underestimate the lasting appeal of story-driven brands. Look at how active the Transformers fandom is online. Or the Star Wars fandom (heck, Star Wars has been a LEGO theme for about 20 years itself and shows no signs of declining in popularity). Or the Marvel Comics fandom. Stories have a way of curating a passionate fanbase, and that kind of passion isn't something people simply forget as they get older. In my case, Bionicle will always be one of my most profound childhood LEGO experiences.

[x105Black]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Where pop culture plays a big role, though, is in keeping these things exciting beyond the preschool age range. Disney movies do an OK job of that, for what it's worth, but then again, Disney is already its own theme, and one that Castle builders seem largely disinterested in.

But that love of Disney does take kids beyond interest in Disney and fosters an interest in the medieval fantasy and fairy tale genres.  So while there may be less direct interest in Disney LEGO, there is no less interest in many of the genres and themes it presented.  Also, most Disney LEGO is catered towards girls.  There are a lot of minidoll sets, most with pink.  The CMF series seemed to do well with all fans, and the Castle was well received.  Maybe Castle fans would respond better to Disney LEGO if it was made to appeal to them.

[3797]

On 9.2.2018 at 4:35 AM, Faefrost said:

The problem is all of the pop culture things things that would and could drive Castle interest are almost exclusively very very adult properties. There is no sign of this stuff in kid friendly media. It's just hardcore adult focused modern tele drama, grimdark with wall to wall boobies and bits getting chopped off.

Except for Episode 1 all of the Star Wars movies got a "FSK 12" rating here in Germany. That's why I never understood why TLG decided to market that IP to 5 year olds. A friend of mine almost wasn't allowed to enter the cinema when we wanted to watch the original Jurassic Park movie back in 1993. He was 11 at the time and the movie had a FSK 12 rating just like Star Wars. Did you hear about the Jurassic World themed Duplo set? Makes total sense.

Also... those evil, evil boobies. The horror. The nightmares.

[Grover]

A few of these franchises, like Star Wars and Marvel, have been active the entire time.  Star Wars mostly through merchandising and re-releases for a while, and Marvel through comic books the entire time, although the Marvel Universe is boosting sales right now I'm sure.  I think about things like Mask and Voltron from my childhood.  I loved those as a kid, but even with the Voltron Ideas being produced at some point, would I buy it?  Only if I had an abundance of money and nothing else to buy at the time.  Maybe not even then if I could get a good deal on bulk bricks elsewhere to help with my MOCs.  Those were themes that I really loved and now I don't care.  Probably partly to do with the fact that I am no longer inundated with these themes.  I also completely missed Bionicle in my dark ages, so I really don't understand what the hype is about.  The figures in the most recent Bionicle line don't appeal to me and I am left wondering why people were excited.  Apparently the Bionicle line helped save Lego (with Star Wars), for which I'm grateful, and I certainly don't dislike it (unlike the minidolls), just don't really get it, probably because I was not there for the first wave that was hyped.

[fred67]

20 hours ago, Hive said:

I don't quite get the argument that Castle is too generic and needs a specific hook to catch kids of today. Sure, if we look at hits like Ninjago, Chima and Elves that's certainly the case; they get a story, named characters and tv shows... but look at City, then. That's pretty much as generic as they come. If kids can play with generic policemen and robbers - why shouldn't they be able to play with generic knights?

 

19 hours ago, x105Black said:

Exactly, stories about Castles and Knights and Royal Families are ubiquitous.  Any pre-schooler is immersed in that kind of content from Fairy Tales, Fables, Disney, and King Arthur.  I don't think they need a hook to bring kids into a medieval setting.  Castle is so accessible that they've made waves of Duplo Castle sets.

I want to add on to this.  Way back when, in the stone age (2010-2011), there was a LOT of discussion on EB about the likelihood of a LOTR theme - even long after the 3 movies were released.  None of us, nobody, thought they would actually do it - we mainly discussed if such a thing were tenable for TLG, and we greatly wanted them to do it.

In discussing the violence, I came clearly down on the side that it would work based on the sets they had already released for Indiana Jones (think of the Flying Wing scene in Raiders.... what happened to the big German soldier, and TLG actually made a set of that scene) and Star Wars (think of Darth Vader's transformation, for example, and again TLG made a set of it).

In any event, at the time, we had Fantasy Era castle.  I think this is very important, if you bear with me.  Again, AT THE TIME, TLG did not have a LOTR license - but they were doing Fantasy.  IOW, IMO, they were doing a generic fantasy theme that we could use as LOTR if we wanted, but were not pigeon holed into LOTR... it could be anything we wanted, LOTR or otherwise.

I cheered when they announced LOTR (I think I still have the Frodo with the Ring poster).  I was supremely disappointed in the sets, on the whole, but you did get figures anyway.  In any event, the point is that, before those licensed sets, they played on the popularity of the theme in pop culture, without actually having to give us something specific (and problematic for LEGO, like GOT would be).

And I think, after reading all of these replies, that this is what people really want - a generic theme that we can apply to whatever we want, be it our interpretation of an existing fantasy world, or our own imaginations.

I know a lot of classic castle fans did not like the fact that the opposing forces were humans and goblins (orcs, really - we all thought that), but they also had dwarfs and, IMO, if they didn't get the license they would have released elves.  But the classic fans didn't get opposing human factions, and that was a problem, I guess.  So I really think they could make everybody happy by revisiting Fantasy, but having two human factions in addition to the fantasy factions.  That could be as evergreen as city.

Edited February 10, 2018 by fred67