Doublenook - MOC

[Toastie]

6 hours ago, garmsey said:

I know this is old but do you still have the lxf file for this build?

Welcome to EB, @garmsey!

@Hod Carrier is one of the geniuses here - I bet he'll be glad to help out. You need 10 posts to be able to PM him - some folks here don't like resurrecting old threads for the purpose of asking for instructions. But who knows. Just post "here and there", what you like (or not) and then get in touch with him.

Well, chances are, he replies here directly!

All the best,
Thorsten

[Hod Carrier]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:32 PM, Toastie said:

@Hod Carrier is one of the geniuses here

Too many others far more deserving of that accolade, but thank you. 

On 1/10/2022 at 3:52 PM, garmsey said:

I know this is old but do you still have the lxf file for this build?  I am interested to see if I can build it as the game looks interesting but when I tried to download the lxf from the link it was zero kb and did not appear to have anything in it.  Thanks.

I think there was an issue with how big the file is which means that it can no longer be linked to directly here. I'll have a look at saving it as a Stud.io file (with a .io file extension) and put it on the Bricklink gallery for download from there. I suspect that it won't be immediately available as I believe it has to pass a moderation stage first, but I'll put a link to it when it's done.

Hope this helps.

**EDIT**

Actually, would you mind if I hold fire on this for the time being while I have a look and see if there's a more parts-efficient and robust way of building the board before offering it for download?

Edited January 12, 2022 by Hod Carrier
Second thoughts.

[garmsey]

3 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

Actually, would you mind if I hold fire on this for the time being while I have a look and see if there's a more parts-efficient and robust way of building the board before offering it for download?

Thank you for sharing your designs.  I look forward to see the update (if needed) when you are ready to post it.  I am just getting back into lego because my son is interested in both lego and trains. I am trying to find interesting things for him to play with in addition to just driving the trains around.

Edited January 12, 2022 by garmsey

[Hod Carrier]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:03 PM, garmsey said:

Thank you for sharing your designs.  I look forward to see the update (if needed) when you are ready to post it.  I am just getting back into lego because my son is interested in both lego and trains. I am trying to find interesting things for him to play with in addition to just driving the trains around.

You're very welcome.

Just so that you don't think that I've forgotten you, I just wanted to let you know that my efforts to improve the game has turned into a ground-up redesign. I'm hoping to introduce some new features, including a rudimentary way of coupling the loco and wagons and also a form of working switch to help select each road. Consequently, I need to design and test build it first before I release it to the world. I'll post news here, so watch this space. 

[Hod Carrier]

Just a quick update to show a couple of renders of the revised playing board.

The original version of the puzzle was built sideways but this new version is being built studs up.

The advantage of this different orientation is that the movement of the playing pieces should be smoother because the diagonals no longer have a serrated edge to them. Other changes made to the playing board is the inclusion of sliding sections (in orange) that act as rudimentary points/switches so that routes can be set for the pieces to move more easily around the board.

[garmsey]

Thanks for the updates.  The updated layout looks great and I like the idea of the switches.

[zephyr1934]

So I have a stupid question about the rules of actually using the switch yard. Obviously one of the greatest constraints is the need to runaround the train. So are you allowed to leave cars on the diagonals, thus, potentially giving you up to 3 cars to runaround at a time. Or do you have to keep the diagonals clear, leaving what looks to be the ability to only run around a single car at a time?

[garmsey]

I found the website below which does a really good job explaining the Inglenook shunting puzzle as well as other shunting puzzles.  It is actually where I first found Hod Carrier's lego version.  With the Doublenook there are some changes to the rules that Hod Carrier should be able to better explain.

http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/Inglenook/inglenook-layouts.html

[Hod Carrier]

10 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

So I have a stupid question about the rules of actually using the switch yard.

There's no such thing as a stupid question. 

10 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Obviously one of the greatest constraints is the need to runaround the train. So are you allowed to leave cars on the diagonals, thus, potentially giving you up to 3 cars to runaround at a time. Or do you have to keep the diagonals clear, leaving what looks to be the ability to only run around a single car at a time?

I don't want to get too far involved in answering questions about running-round wagons, as that starts to get into the heart of the tactics and strategy of the puzzle. By playing the game, or by using a bit of mental gymnastics, you will see how shunting wagons from one side of the board to the other is best done, and what impact certain strategies will have on how you can then proceed with solving the puzzle.

What I will do, however, is to point you back towards the origins of this particular design and to the rules of the Inglenook puzzle on which it is based.

The idea behind the Inglenook puzzle is to shunt a train of five wagons from a total of eight within a constrained track plan. The layout consists of three sidings and a headshunt, each of which can only hold a certain number of vehicles as shown below (image from Inglenook Sidings Shunting Puzzle - Track Plan & Layout Size (wymann.info)). As can be clearly seen, this track plan does not permit running-round and, to ensure no blockages to shunting movements, all wagons must be fully accommodated in their sidings with none left foul of the points/switches, as would be the case when shunting wagons in the real world.

The Doublenook design expands on the original idea by taking two Inglenook plans and laying them back-to-back with a little bit of overlay such that the headshunt now overlaps with one of the sidings on each side of the board. However, as you can see the Inglenook track-plans are still there and visible.

When shunting each end of the board the intention is that you would follow the rules and constraints imposed by the Inglenook track-plan. Use of the other diagonal as an additional siding to place wagons in order to make shunting easier would not be permitted, as this makes use of space on the board that is not contained within the Inglenook plan (in other words, if you're shunting the blue sidings you may only use the blue diagonal as that forms part of the same Inglenook, whereas the yellow diagonal does not). However, you may place wagons on a diagonal in order to run the loco around so that the wagons may be moved from one side of the board to the other but, as leaving a wagon on a diagonal means that it is not accommodated within a siding, it must be moved immediately into a siding before shunting any other wagon.

I'm unsure if this answers your question fully, but I hope it helps to clarify the rules.

3 hours ago, garmsey said:

I found the website below which does a really good job explaining the Inglenook shunting puzzle as well as other shunting puzzles.  It is actually where I first found Hod Carrier's lego version.  With the Doublenook there are some changes to the rules that Hod Carrier should be able to better explain.

It's a fabulous and interesting website. Sadly it doesn't get many updates and has remained largely unchanged for many years, but it does do a great job of explaining how these puzzles work.

I did put the rules for the additional levels in the opening post way back in whenever it was I started this thread, but am happy to expand on them if folk wish me to do so.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Hod Carrier

[zephyr1934]

13 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

I don't want to get too far involved in answering questions about running-round wagons, as that starts to get into the heart of the tactics and strategy of the puzzle.

Indeed, yes, that appears to be one of the key elements of efficiency and the whole point in playing the puzzle in the first place. I wasn't asking about strategy. I was asking about the actual constraints.
 

13 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

However, you may place wagons on a diagonal in order to run the loco around so that the wagons may be moved from one side of the board to the other

This point roughly answers my question.

If you were only allowed to leave cars on the straights between the diagonal lines then you could only runaround one car at a time and that seems unnecessarily tedious if you are almost always trying to get 5 cars from one side of the yard to the other

But one clarification, are you allowed to leave 3 cars to run around (2 on the diagonal and one on the straight between the diagonals) or just 2 cars on the diagonal?

[Hod Carrier]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

But one clarification, are you allowed to leave 3 cars to run around (2 on the diagonal and one on the straight between the diagonals) or just 2 cars on the diagonal?

I think it’s unavoidable that you end up blocking some of the switches when running around. You’d just have to make sure that you don’t block any switch that you need to use to complete the move. Precisely where you need to leave them is otherwise up to you.

The important thing is that any run-round move must be completed in one move. You can run-around any number of wagons but you cannot spot one and then go back to spot another one until the first one has been shunted into a siding. 

[Paperinik77pk]

Aaah, what a nice puzzle game - currently one of my favourites! The Doublenook adds enjoyment for sure!!!

I saw (and liked a lot!) your first creation, but this one seems simpler and smoother than the old version!!!

Great!!! 

Ciao,

Davide

Edited January 30, 2022 by Paperinik77pk

[Hod Carrier]

A little update as the project progresses.

The puzzle is coming along nicely. From design to build has been a fairly smooth process and, even though the construction is primarily plates and tiles, the resulting build remains quite sturdy.

I'm currently in the process of testing and have already identified a few small teething problems. The operation of the points/switches and the way that the train moves around the board has meant that a few details have had to be changed. I have also identified a need to secure the points/switches in position to prevent them being moved by the train. To that end I'm now just waiting for what I'm hoping will be the last two small parts orders before the build is complete. Once that has been done I can upload the final design to the Bricklink gallery and folk will be able to download the design from there.

[Hod Carrier]

Nearly there. I've had to move and redesign some of the switches, which necessitated a few other changes to the board itself, but I'm now at the stage of fine tuning things to make sure it all operates nice and smoothly. I'm hoping to be finished some time next week. Thank you everyone for your patience.

[garmsey]

Thanks for the status update and being willing to update your old design.  I really look forward to what you came up with.

[verybricks]

That's amazing, thank you for sharing. You layout was one of the inspiration for my own, so it's very cool to see it beeing updated !

[Hod Carrier]

Thanks again to everyone for your patience. The Doublenook rebuild is done!!

I am just waiting for the excellent folk at Bricklink to approve it, but once it has been given the all-clear you will be able to download the Stud.io file from here. In the meantime, as a little teaser, here is a short video of it in action.

 

[supertruper1988]

12 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

Thanks again to everyone for your patience. The Doublenook rebuild is done!!

I am just waiting for the excellent folk at Bricklink to approve it, but once it has been given the all-clear you will be able to download the Stud.io file from here. In the meantime, as a little teaser, here is a short video of it in action.

 

If bricklink gives you trouble, I would like to host the studio file on my website www.bricktraindepot.com if that would be acceptable to you.

[Man with a hat]

Great to see it again and further improved. Looks like it works really well and the switches are very clever.

[ColletArrow]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:34 AM, Hod Carrier said:

Thanks again to everyone for your patience. The Doublenook rebuild is done!!

And it looks excellent! With the coupling system it looks like lots of fun to operate - and the Railfreight livery works perfectly on the micro-scale Class 20, it's instantly recognisable. Now we just need to see that loader in operation!

[Hod Carrier]

On 3/1/2022 at 1:27 PM, supertruper1988 said:

If bricklink gives you trouble, I would like to host the studio file on my website www.bricktraindepot.com if that would be acceptable to you.

That's extremely generous of you. Thank you.

I'm not anticipating any problems with Bricklink but it's good to know that there's a back-up just in case.

9 hours ago, Man with a hat said:

Great to see it again and further improved. Looks like it works really well and the switches are very clever.

 

6 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

And it looks excellent! With the coupling system it looks like lots of fun to operate

Thanks chaps. Yes, I'm very pleased indeed with how much better it is to operate compared to the original version, and the new features of functional points/switches and wagon couplings work just as I'd hoped.

I really couldn't have allowed the original version out the door, especially if it was intended for a child to use. It frustrated me because of how difficult the pieces were to move around the board and so it's spent the intervening years sat on a shelf not getting used. I've really got to thank @garmsey for giving me the motivation to come up with this much improved version that is now a pleasure to operate.

6 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

and the Railfreight livery works perfectly on the micro-scale Class 20, it's instantly recognisable

LOL!! I knew you'd like that. 

It's the closest thing we Brits have to a road switcher, so I had to include it. However, the Stud.io file includes three possible loco designs to try and satisfy different areas of the world, although you only need one loco for the puzzle. As well as the Class 20 there are generic European and American locos, but you could just as easily design your own as long as you don't change the size (the size of the loco and wagons and the length of the sidings are all determined by the puzzle itself, so changing any of them would affect whether the puzzle could even be completed).

6 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

Now we just need to see that loader in operation!

There's actually not a lot to see with that. You push the slide (the bit with the red tile) in and pull it out again and it drops a single 1x1 round tile to represent a load.

[garmsey]

Thanks for all your work to update this! @Hod Carrier  Once the Stud.io file is available I will have to find the bricks to build it.

[Hod Carrier]

Great news!! The file has finally completed the approval process and is ready to be downloaded. Just head on over to the Bricklink Gallery to get your copy and for more information.

Any problems give me a shout.

[Chromeknight]

I’m now 90% done building my own copy of this. Just waiting on some BL orders.

thanks for the instructions @Hod Carrier!

Some notes.

The silo- I’m not certain that it works as shown in the file. It was a simple fix rotating the bit under the slider, but worth checking.

The orange and DkGreen corner panels only came in 3 sets each, I substituted Tan and Med.Azure. 

I also added a couple of black plates in the middle underneath to strengthen the build.

I’ll post pictures once the orders arrive. But thanks again, it’s such a fun toy!
 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Chromeknight

[Hod Carrier]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:38 AM, Chromeknight said:

I’m now 90% done building my own copy of this. Just waiting on some BL orders.

thanks for the instructions @Hod Carrier!

I’ll post pictures once the orders arrive. But thanks again, it’s such a fun toy!

You're really most welcome. I'm pleased to hear that you're enjoying the build and am looking forward to seeing your version of it. 

On 4/18/2022 at 9:38 AM, Chromeknight said:

The silo- I’m not certain that it works as shown in the file. It was a simple fix rotating the bit under the slider, but worth checking.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. You are correct, I have made a small mistake there. As you say, you can easily correct the operation of the loading tower by turning the section under the slider by 180 degrees. I have updated the file and will get it uploaded later today.

On 4/18/2022 at 9:38 AM, Chromeknight said:

The orange and DkGreen corner panels only came in 3 sets each, I substituted Tan and Med.Azure. 

That's absolutely fine. As long as all the wagons can be easily identified and still match with the tokens it doesn't matter what colours you choose.

On 4/18/2022 at 9:38 AM, Chromeknight said:

I also added a couple of black plates in the middle underneath to strengthen the build.

I expected there to be more flex in the board which would require additional strengthening, but I have found mine to be surprisingly robust once fully built. Because I had envisaged the game would be played on a tabletop I hadn't expected any problems except perhaps when carrying the board, but I am always happy for folk to make alterations and changes to my designs according to their own thoughts.

Can I just ask how you found the description on the download page? It's hard to try and convey complex information without confusing the reader. Did you find it all clear and easy to understand?

If anyone else has any feedback they'd like to leave I shall be very happy to receive it.