Andromeda

12V Train Motor(BB12V) disassembly and repair

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Hi All,

It's been awhile since my last post, so I thought it was time I made another.

I have been in receipt of a BB12VB-RED recently! Ahem, probably more like a year or so ago.

As you can see from the photos, one of the pickups is very damaged… :sceptic:

 DSC_0204.jpg DSC_0206.jpg

Another Eurobrick member, Alainneke, had already kindly made some replacements out of brass… I had sent him the diagrams of the pickups in AutoCAD, and extremely excellent reproductions were sent as a test in return.

At the time I’d only opened my 'teenaged' black motor, as seen in photos, and the new brass pickup studs were supposed to be destined for it…

The RED 12V motor is very, very rare, I have held back on using the replacement pickups until now… I am glad I have waited though, my apologies Alainneke!

After reading VGO’s suggestion in post http://www.eurobrick...pic=50345&st=25, post #28, I tried the idea out on a black motor and it moved during the operation and I snapped a tab off the end, see pic.

DSC_0207.jpg DSC_0208.jpg

So I decided to build a jig out of Lego to hold the motor. The top part of my jig is real Lego, while the bottom is entirely made of Fako(Fake Lego) due to my needing to augment some of the pieces to fit the underside of the motor and wheels. I used MEK(Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone) to ‘weld’ the pieces together, along with some small strips of a smooth(no embossed numbers) credit type card, see pics.

DSC_0212.jpg DSC_0213.jpg DSC_0214.jpg

DSC_0211.jpg DSC_0215.jpg DSC_0216.jpg DSC_0217.jpg

Okay,

My advice is that you try and run a razor blade around the circumference of the bottom of the motor, hopefully using a ‘jig’ like shown. I do mean “Razor blade” as a “Stanley” knife blade will do the damage that I have shown in my earlier openings, try a ‘BIC single blade’…

Making and using a ‘BIC’ single razor blade…

I used the razor whilst the motor was in the top part of the jig.

DSC_0228.jpg DSC_0210.jpg DSC_0226.jpg DSC_0227.jpg

Once in the jig, use a 2.5mm rod/nail and hammer in both power plug holes, to gently persuade the bottom to come loose on either side.

DSC_0224.jpg

Seat partially opened motor on the ‘bottom’ part of the jig, and use the remainder of the credit/shopping card to gently hammer down on the wheel axle to pry the last of the plastic welds apart.

DSC_0225.jpg

The motor is now broken open… :grin:

Here are some pics of the open casing with the old and new pickups, I will update the post after I have cleaned up the motor parts.

DSC_0218.jpg DSC_0219.jpg DSC_0220.jpg DSC_0221.jpg DSC_0222.jpg

If for whatever reason you need to take a wheel off, I.e. for cleaning excessive hair/crud in sleeve bearing, then you start by removing the cir-clip next to the sleeve bearing. Move bearing nearer to gear cog, then gently pries the cylindrical spring clip out of the wheel in the same area as the hole in the wheel.

DSC_02004.jpg DSC_02006.jpg DSC_02009.jpg DSC_02010.jpg DSC_02007.jpg

When you're cleaning the parts inside, be careful with the metal part 'A'. There are two small hardened steel discs that sit either end of the spindle, only the dirty grease is holding them in....

DSC_02012.jpg DSC_02013.jpg

Now it's time for reassembly and re-greasing...

DSC_02014.jpg DSC_02015.jpg DSC_02016.jpg DSC_02017.jpg DSC_02018.jpg DSC_02019.jpg DSC_02020.jpg

Edited by Andromeda
Photo links update

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That's a great 12v maintenance post!!!

Thanks for putting in all the effort, Andromeda!!!

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Thanks for the positive feedback :classic:!

I absolutely love the 80's Train era, I now as an adult have every(well nearly every) set that I ever wanted and more...

I'm only glad I can help others fix some of the rarer Lego items from our past train sets :sweet:.

@ LEGO Train 12 Volts

If you missed it above :sceptic:, I sent Alainneke the drawings, and he custom made them on a lathe for me as a test. I have looked him up on Bricklink, and he is selling them in his store 'Sage Rail Works', but it is closed right now. I have tried to get hold of him, but perhaps he is on holiday, but he may not be speaking to me - he did send me those pickups two and half years ago... :blush:

Edit:

Having said that, his store has been closed since November 16th, 2014... Hope all is well with you Alainneke???!!!???

Edit II:

You could break open a set of 1151's, I have not done this, but they appear to be similarly constructed:

http://www.peeron.com/inv/sets/1151-1

Edited by Andromeda

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Alainneke has been in touch, but he is incredibly busy ATM bu(sy)ilding until next year... But unfortunately it is not Lego building...

I have taken apart a 1151 and the pickups are identical... but there are only 11 pairs left on Bricklink, and they are 13EUR+ a set...

DSC_1211.jpg

DSC_1212.jpg

DSC_1213.jpg

DSC_1214.jpg

Edited by Andromeda
Photo links update

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Of course! I was looking up the spares number, not the part.... Good find Peterab :sweet:!

I think if I was going to use the pickup studs from one, I'd keep the metal plug tines too, they may help in fixing any broken tines on the 12V switches, signal, point etc... :wink:

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Sorry to bump an old thread, but I have a couple of question for Andromeda. When you talk about that metallic cylinder here (see photo of one of my 12v motor with broken wheel), what tool did you use to open it ?

And can the mid wheels on the 12v motors be separated from there plastic axle in order to replace a driving Wheel, cause it seems there is the same cylindric part in those ?

EDIT : for the first question I have my answer. As the Wheel is broken, I managed to push the metallic part to the exterior with a screwdriver.

EDIT 2 : I have the answer to my second question. Yes, the wheel are the same ! With a tiny screwdriver, I was able to gently pull the plastic axle from the middle wheel, then the cylndrical metallic part itself by pushing it from the external hole of the wheel. After that I was able to replace the metallic part, then the new wheel to my motor driving axle without opening it. One 12v motor back in business ! :)

post-133871-0-52957500-1450443107_thumb.jpg

Edited by Bloodwave

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Hi Andromeda,

I have studied your post about maintenance on a 12V Lego train motor and it has been great to follow.

Now I am in desperate need for new pickup studs as the old ones did not reach down to the conductors.

I understand Alainneke is not making any more studs at the moment, so I will try to find someone else to help me manufacture some.

Is it possible to get your AutoCAD diagrams of the pickup studs? That would help a lot.

Thank you.

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Hi All,

I have been able to turn a few these of my own since purchasing a lathe.

PM me only if you are really stuck?

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Sorry Andromeda, your work is mentionned all over Bricks forum as the best report on opening a BB12V, couldn't you post again few pictures to help us? I'm afraid to open my red BB12V as only one out of the 4  contacts switch below doesn't have any spring to connect with electric rail.

Thanks in advance (Sorry for my "french inspired" english)

 

Matthieu 

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Welcome to Eurobricks catmat36 / Matthieu,

Andromeda hasn't been in for a while, so maybe he will never see this and since you are a new member you can't yet PM him. If you read the rules you can also see that we do not appreciate reviving old threads (2 years+ in this case).

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Thanks JopieK,

In fact my son (7 years old) is just interested now with my old Lego train. That's why we started to rebuild everything and I remember that 30 years ago my BB12V was a bit annoying with this default on the contact switch.

I tried again to contact Andromeda, even if I've seen that's I was not the only one to try!

Anyhow it's a pity to loose a knowledge, especially in those years with the facilities to exchange info.

Sorry for the time spent with me. I loved Lego train, I'll love it again but fixing those sealed parts is not easy!

If you have any other post explaining that, I would very appreciate.

In fact I understand that specific topics like this one are not discussed very oftenly !

Thank again.
See you soon.

Matthieu

 

 

 

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He seems to be still active since he fixed the images :)

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Indeed! Luckily I had followed post when i created it, and received a notification:wink:! Now I need to fix my other posts...:sceptic:

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A big thank to Andromeda for the pictures. That will help a lot of 12V train fans.

Enjoy you train

 

Matthieu

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On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2015 at 3:37 PM, Andromeda said:

Hi All,

It's been awhile since my last post, so I thought it was time I made another.

I have been in receipt of a BB12VB-RED recently! Ahem, probably more like a year or so ago.

As you can see from the photos, one of the pickups is very damaged… :sceptic:

 DSC_0204.jpg DSC_0206.jpg

Another Eurobrick member, Alainneke, had already kindly made some replacements out of brass… I had sent him the diagrams of the pickups in AutoCAD, and extremely excellent reproductions were sent as a test in return.

At the time I’d only opened my 'teenaged' black motor, as seen in photos, and the new brass pickup studs were supposed to be destined for it…

The RED 12V motor is very, very rare, I have held back on using the replacement pickups until now… I am glad I have waited though, my apologies Alainneke!

After reading VGO’s suggestion in post http://www.eurobrick...pic=50345&st=25, post #28, I tried the idea out on a black motor and it moved during the operation and I snapped a tab off the end, see pic.

DSC_0207.jpg DSC_0208.jpg

So I decided to build a jig out of Lego to hold the motor. The top part of my jig is real Lego, while the bottom is entirely made of Fako(Fake Lego) due to my needing to augment some of the pieces to fit the underside of the motor and wheels. I used MEK(Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone) to ‘weld’ the pieces together, along with some small strips of a smooth(no embossed numbers) credit type card, see pics.

DSC_0212.jpg DSC_0213.jpg DSC_0214.jpg

DSC_0211.jpg DSC_0215.jpg DSC_0216.jpg DSC_0217.jpg

Okay,

My advice is that you try and run a razor blade around the circumference of the bottom of the motor, hopefully using a ‘jig’ like shown. I do mean “Razor blade” as a “Stanley” knife blade will do the damage that I have shown in my earlier openings, try a ‘BIC single blade’…

Making and using a ‘BIC’ single razor blade…

I used the razor whilst the motor was in the top part of the jig.

DSC_0228.jpg DSC_0210.jpg DSC_0226.jpg DSC_0227.jpg

Once in the jig, use a 2.5mm rod/nail and hammer in both power plug holes, to gently persuade the bottom to come loose on either side.

DSC_0224.jpg

Seat partially opened motor on the ‘bottom’ part of the jig, and use the remainder of the credit/shopping card to gently hammer down on the wheel axle to pry the last of the plastic welds apart.

DSC_0225.jpg

The motor is now broken open… :grin:

Here are some pics of the open casing with the old and new pickups, I will update the post after I have cleaned up the motor parts.

DSC_0218.jpg DSC_0219.jpg DSC_0220.jpg DSC_0221.jpg DSC_0222.jpg

If for whatever reason you need to take a wheel off, I.e. for cleaning excessive hair/crud in sleeve bearing, then you start by removing the cir-clip next to the sleeve bearing. Move bearing nearer to gear cog, then gently pries the cylindrical spring clip out of the wheel in the same area as the hole in the wheel.

DSC_02004.jpg DSC_02006.jpg DSC_02009.jpg DSC_02010.jpg DSC_02007.jpg

When you're cleaning the parts inside, be careful with the metal part 'A'. There are two small hardened steel discs that sit either end of the spindle, only the dirty grease is holding them in....

DSC_02012.jpg DSC_02013.jpg

Now it's time for reassembly and re-greasing...

DSC_02014.jpg DSC_02015.jpg DSC_02016.jpg DSC_02017.jpg DSC_02018.jpg DSC_02019.jpg DSC_02020.jpg

 

Hi, thx for great guide! how do you I can buy the new contact (x4) show in the last pics?

greetings Alex

Edited by Afolbrickfox

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The links to Bricklink above, only have second hand parts available.

I would offer to make some, but trading is not allowed, and you do not have enough posts to PM me:sceptic:

I've attached a screen clip of the pickup from Autocad because it was easier than figuring out where to put the DWG file, all units are mm. brass works well.

12v motor pickup.png

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