Ragnarök Now 3: Conclusion

[Darkdragon]

You were my tracking target, so I did not plan to kill you until that happened. And no, I don't think you're dumb. It is easy to login from a phone and not realize your name sticks from the last board you posted from on that device but it needed to be tested either way. The comment that was trashed was the smartest question they asked if that makes you feel any better.

I don't know if killing is a good test of anything, that's a lot like the old witch trials really. I hadn't helped yet anyway, so I guess in the end it doesn't matter.

[Adam]

:wub: :wub:

What an absolutely amazing game! I'm thrilled to have been a part of it.

First of all, hats off to both Hinck and Panda Express. Especially you, Panda: you played a smart game, and your arguments on the last day were so clever and convincing that I had this image prepared just in case Hinck flipped scum and won the game. Both of you deserve mad props for sustaining a full day with well thought out, reasoned arguments and speculation. I'm sorry that I kept everyone, including the deadboard, in suspense.

More than anything else, I want to send a big, massive, covered-with-kisses THANK YOU to TPRU for hosting and letting me be a part of the experience! Reading the deadboard and the night results truly demonstrates how much time, effort, and skill goes into creating a mafia game of such quality. I'll admit that the moment we started discussing traitors and conversions, I got nervous - that kind of mechanic can be very risky, but here it was implemented to perfection. The fact that this game lasted eleven (or shall we say twelve) days, and that those last few days were the most tense and interesting, speaks to how well this game was designed. I especially liked the combination of a traitor and a one-shot conversion. That kept the town guessing at all times, and I can only imagine what would've happened if we hadn't lost the vigilante, and if the miller had been investigated.

To those of you on the deadboard - that was a hilarious read. It's great to see that everyone stayed invested in the game, even after death.

I feel bad about the writeboard gambit. That definitely did more harm than good, and directly led to the death of at least two townies. It was a gambit worth taking, I guess, and I'm glad that it at least gave the scum a modicum of confusion.

One thing I really wanted to address is the fact that I was able to play with a number of people I've never played with before. Probably half of the players in this game were new to me, and we all had a fun time and an interesting game! I'm glad that EB mafia is still alive and thriving. I hope that those of you who felt upset or disheartened are reading this. I know from personal experience how frustrating and even personally hurtful mafia can be. It's easy to feel personally betrayed, especially when you get screwed over for unjust reasons. Reading the deadboard, a couple townies probably feel like this is more of a pyrrhic victory than a happy ending. My advice is to keep playing, and don't let that bring you down. With something like this, you only get out of it what you put into it. Participate, throw out your ideas (however wild they may seem), and you're guaranteed a good time!

Lastly, to answer a question that I'm sure is on all of your minds... yes, I am the one who PM'd TPRU with "megabluck me sideways."

[CMP]

After you and Pie were gone, whenever I started suspecting Adam, Pie's parting request echoed in my head, "lynch Petrus".

See, my theory was half-right...

Thanks for the amazing game TPRU, I had a load of fun.

Yes, even on Day Eight.

[mediumsnowman]

Wow, what a great game! I wasn't even playing (I was a reserve ) and the game was still exciting. Can't wait to play my first actual game in the impending Blacktron Invasion!

[Hinckley]

First of all, hats off to both Hinck and Panda Express.

And to you! I'm so happy you played this one. Thanks for picking through my rambling theories and ultimately agreeing with me. I was very nervous.

throw out your ideas (however wild they may seem),

That's great advice! I should try that next time.

[MagPiesRUs]

Thanks for the nice words everyone!

I've added a little more to the conclusion. It answers all of the burning questions relating to pigs.

[Hinckley]

I've added a little more to the conclusion. It answers all of the burning questions relating to pigs.

Pernilla!!! It's better than I could've hoped for. And she brought me back to life! Good piggy. Good...wait a minute! Who's this boar? Don't think I'll be granting you Pernilla's hoof in marriage just yet! I don't care what bloodline you're from. Pernilla deserves the best only. Pernilla does seem to like him, though. My baby's growing up. Wait. She fed me his meat? This is weird. And he hasn't been cooked at all.

Thanks for the nice words everyone!

Thanks again for the amazing game and entertainment but I think it bears special mention for putting up with me during the last three game days. I suppose if everyone was as impatient and bonkers as me, nobody would host games here. Thanks for the enjoyable and loooooong experience.

[Tariq j]

Awesome game TPRU! I had alot of fun!

[Dragonfire]

My conscience in this game, Cornelius Murdock, who provided me the constant reassurance I need or I will die, said he felt bad for you playing so hard and losing right before the end. Poor guy had to do a lot of "No, I don't think there are three Scum teams." "No, I doubt he was a reverse death miller." He was truly the 24th player of the game.

Do you have a "conscience" in every single game you play??

I love that Pandora and I were the first options for kill. What a different game that would've been!

I wanted to kill Pandora for a while. You, I thought, were out of the question cause it was likely you'd be protected.

How ironic that the game should begin with fire (my lynching) and end with fire as well.

Maybe it's because you're a fire giant?

From my perspective the tactics of the scum team were seriously crazy; especially the calls for the traitor to come forward; so I was surprised to see how long the game lasted. Going by how ridiculous the scum were acting, it really seemed like it should have ended way earlier--

jluck's traitor tactic was discussed in the writeboard and I think it was pretty good, seeing as he was going to die anyway and in the long term, he brought down two townies with him. Mencot wasn't technically on our team, he was the traitor himself, and we had no part in his claim. That was crazy.

And we deliberately posted nonsense on the boards to confuse the townies

Oh, by the way, do you guys remember the thing I posted about the scum's mindset, that got Hinck suspecting me and eventually got me lynched? It was actually true. I worked out that Duvors was a fake traitor because of what Hinck posted on the day topic, saying that he is in contact with the other two traitor claims. No real traitor would tell Hinck that he was doing the gambit too.

[Flipz]

I'll reiterate everyone's praise for you, TPRU, as well as everyone who participated. Normally Mafia is just too harsh and hectic for me to really get into as a spectator, but not only did I end up following this game closely as soon as I stumbled upon it (mid Day 8 or 9, I believe), but it's now made me want to go back and read through all of the Ragnarok games just to see the whole story. Well done, all of you.

[Hinckley]

Do you have a "conscience" in every single game you play??

Just the last two. They're the only games that have made me lose my mind a little.

jluck's traitor tactic was discussed in the writeboard and I think it was pretty good, seeing as he was going to die anyway and in the long term, he brought down two townies with him. Mencot wasn't technically on our team, he was the traitor himself, and we had no part in his claim. That was crazy.

Yeah, ooops. Didn't it occur to you guys that either dd or Mencot could be the traitor? And when you said my misleading comments got your kill blocked, it actually made me think you had use the recruiting Action since my comments don't physically cause the block Action in the game, so that backfired on you a little. Of course, my own theorizing backfired on me and my correct assumption that you guys tried to recruit and Mist hadn't killed got lost. But ha ha, Pie. I was right!

Pie, when was the last time we were both on the same side and won? Werewolf? I also believe that was the last time I was Town and survived and won.

There was a bit of that happening in this game where someone would say "Oh, so we just happened to block Mist and they just happened to not kill that night? " If Pie used the laugh emoticon with me one more time on Day Eight, I was going to find out where he lived. And although we now know it was all trying to make us believe the lie, we also had the "So the Scum just happened to kill Palathadric on Night One..." Never listen to these types of arguments, people. There have been crazier coincidences in Mafia.

And we deliberately posted nonsense on the boards to confuse the townies

Except the number of Scum and the Mist–speak incriminated your actual traitor. However, I was like a dog with a dead racoon that just wouldn't listen to anyone telling me to just leave it alone. I kept going back and trying to analyze the nonses.

Oh, by the way, do you guys remember the thing I posted about the scum's mindset, that got Hinck suspecting me and eventually got me lynched? It was actually true. I worked out that Duvors was a fake traitor because of what Hinck posted on the day topic, saying that he is in contact with the other two traitor claims. No real traitor would tell Hinck that he was doing the gambit too.

That was what got you investigated. It's an unfortunate side effect of Scum Perspective. There was no reason for you to think the way you did and have it match the feeling from Duvors's board, which became even more obvious when he flipped Town and therefore had to be telling the truth.

How would this have worked out had the Scum been killing?

TPRU, are you going to do game and player analysis? I just love to hear what people think of me. So, I'm a tiny bit self–centered, so? Shoot me.

[Tariq j]

Thanks Hinckley and Pandora for the feedback, I think my biggest mistake was not claiming vengeful on the first day, as it only made me look more scummy on Day 7 when I did finally claim.

The Deadboard was exceptionally fun to participate on. Very interesting to read the day threads after reading the deadboard.

[Piratedave84]

Thanks TPRU for the AMAZING game!

Sorry to everyone, especially my team, that I could not commit as much as I would have needed/wanted to.

How would this have worked out had the Scum been killing?

TELL ME ABOUT IT!

I really don't know what possessed me to keep the conversion over the kill ... I had said like 7000 times on the board that it was imperative that we keep the kill. I guess I was convinced Lady K was convertible and that I would get our kill back after the conversion.

The lack of kill was excessively frustrating given the fact that we had, correctly, determined that we could not convert PRs. So there we were with a full list of PRs and no kill ability ... FAAAACCCKKK!!!

[Lady K]

No worries! Just to share my experience, when you roleclaim you should expect the question "Who were your targets?" A good townie will try to confirm your story and analyze the logic behind who you targeted. Refusing to give targets seemed Scummy to me...obviously.

Also, your role was so convoluted, it sounded like you were making it up. Sorry about that.

No worries. I was ready to share my target info with you and then you directly asked about my targets in a scummy way that I thought you were possibly scum. So instead I mentioned that everyone I had targeted had lived the next day, which was true, so I go no results. Live and learn..... or die and learn as was this case.

[Hinckley]

Thanks Hinckley and Pandora for the feedback, I think my biggest mistake was not claiming vengeful on the first day, as it only made me look more scummy on Day 7 when I did finally claim.

The Deadboard was exceptionally fun to participate on. Very interesting to read the day threads after reading the deadboard.

No, you did amazing considering this was your first game. By the end of the day, I regretted the lynch. Well, I never really wanted it but you did a great job working with me on the Vengeful claim. I thought there was more time left in the day when I unvoted you. That was a frustrating day because we lost three Townies in one fell swoop just as I was starting to figure you guys out. I think we would've lost Lady K either way, but I was getting a town–read from you and Jack Jonespaw. I should've mentioned that JJP was town–reading to me but for one, I wasn't sure and I do realize it would've looked Scummy to defend someone after one conversation by PM. As I said, I wanted you to take out Dave but it is your game so I didn't want to try to pressure you. I've been yelled at for playing other people's games for them before. More than once. But it worked out. It would've been interesting to have a Day Eight with no Scum and a Serial Killer with the players being me, Jack Jonespaw, Chromeknight, Pandora, CallMePie, TrumpetKing and Adam. I wonder who all would've gotten lynched before we figured out Pandora. I probably would've been lynched on Day Eight.

As it was, I didn't get lynched but it basically destroyed the trust of the Town block. How close was I to getting lynched? I never felt like it was a great threat but I could be wrong. I know the writeboard thought it would've helped if I had de–escalated the argument and called for cooler heads and admitted I could see Pie's point, but that would've taken some out–of–game perspective at that point. When I'm wrongfully accused I launch right into defense. I don't want it to sit there long enough to fester and have a chance for people to believe it. I just went into attack mode. I should probably reconsider that next time. I think I did try to calm it down in a way when I laid out a different plan of lynching Dave and blocking me. But, in that proposal, I also called Pie an megablocks. And then I got worried that he wasn't letting up at all himself. I had a Night result to base my argument on. He was just postulating a Scum–SK joint which is silly and the way for us to win he was proposing seemed far–fetched to me.

Chromeknight, why did you still want to lynch me on Day Ten? Am I the only player that can guide the Town to three Scum lynches and still be suspected? Or would def and Shadows fall into that category too?

[Duvors]

Sorry about not taking part in the writeboard everyone. I can never think of anything to say. This was a fun game while it lasted and I'd definitely play again, thanks to TPRU for hosting this.

[Hinckley]

TELL ME ABOUT IT!

I really don't know what possessed me to keep the conversion over the kill ... I had said like 7000 times on the board that it was imperative that we keep the kill. I guess I was convinced Lady K was convertible and that I would get our kill back after the conversion.

The lack of kill was excessively frustrating given the fact that we had, correctly, determined that we could not convert PRs. So there we were with a full list of PRs and no kill ability ... FAAAACCCKKK!!!

I even thought exactly that at one point, that the Scum had kept the conversion and couldn't get the kill back until the conversion was successful. I usually make the kill and conversion the same role since it's one or the other so that wouldn't happen. So, I still thought it was more likely the Scum were choosing to attempt conversions, but they had told me they didn't have a conversion. Plus, there were much crazier theories for me to consider and Pie and Pandora for me to scream at, so who had time for simple logic??

I do love my new title, by the way. Cornelius? Pandora?

No worries. I was ready to share my target info with you and then you directly asked about my targets in a scummy way that I thought you were possibly scum. So instead I mentioned that everyone I had targeted had lived the next day, which was true, so I go no results. Live and learn..... or die and learn as was this case.

At first I thought you meant that you had a one–shot backup of any Town PR that had been killed and the investigator was dead, but I hadn't announced that in the day thread so...I thought I had totally caught you. That might be why it seemed Scummy because I didn't hide the intensity very well. For everyone else's sake, I asked her what Actions she had been offered as one–shots and she came back with "If you're leading the Town block, you should know." and then after I explained that I was only validating the claim, she explained how I had misunderstood the role which seemed to me like backtracking. You also told me it was a Townie version of a shapshifter, which was my Scum role in Ragnarok II and then proceeded to tell me how you thought it would be overpowered as a Scum role. So I thought you were bonkers and had totally botched a fake role claim. If you think your made–up role would be an over–powered Scum role, why did you tell me it was a Townie version of it? Sorry we killed you.

Thanks Hinckley and Pandora for the feedback, I think my biggest mistake was not claiming vengeful on the first day, as it only made me look more scummy on Day 7 when I did finally claim.

One more question. When did you get my request to switch to Lady K? I imagined you got it on time but didn't change because you thought I might be Scum.

[KotZ]

Great game everyone and congrats to the winners! TPRU, you did a great job (again) with this game. The pictures and sets were absolutely gorgeous. I'm still going back and looking at how pretty everything is. I had a lot of fun playing and can't wait for the next game!

[Piratedave84]

I've been going back on my PMs and actions and I see that I has the choice of kill or recruit and chose the latter. I think my logic was that if we gained a new scum friend our chances at winning were better but it seems it didn't dawn on me at that time that this would mean no kill until I recruit.

[Tariq j]

One more question. When did you get my request to switch to Lady K? I imagined you got it on time but didn't change because you thought I might be Scum.

Ah yes! That was an unfortunate mistake due to time zones. I got your PM at 3:00am (so I was asleep) then I got TPRU's message telling me I couldn't contact any players and I had to send in a lynch. I read TPRU's message first and sent in Jafris name to be lynched, I then off course read your PM but by then it was too late :(

[Hinckley]

Ah yes! That was an unfortunate mistake due to time zones. I got your PM at 3:00am (so I was asleep) then I got TPRU's message telling me I couldn't contact any players and I had to send in a lynch. I read TPRU's message first and sent in Jafris name to be lynched, I then off course read your PM but by then it was too late :(

*shakes fist* Time Zones!!!

[CMP]

It sucked because I was almost entirely in the wrong on Day Eight, yet I had pretty much figured out exactly what was going on in Day Ten in regards to determining the scum were probably gone, suspecting Panda and the reason for the scum not killing, but I had completely thrown away all my credibility at that point. Things probably would've ended a lot more smoothly if it hadn't been for my accusation on Day Eight but hell, I was going to be pissed if you had just completely led along the town block again.

[Hinckley]

It sucked because I was almost entirely in the wrong on Day Eight, yet I had pretty much figured out exactly what was going on in Day Ten in regards to determining the scum were probably gone, suspecting Panda and the reason for the scum not killing, but I had completely thrown away all my credibility at that point. Things probably would've ended a lot more smoothly if it hadn't been for my accusation on Day Eight but hell, I was going to be pissed if you had just completely led along the town block again.

You have to follow through. If you'd have been right, you'd be a hero! You still are in my book. Like I said, your final request echoed in my head whenever I started suspecting Adam. I felt comfortable listening to what you said because I knew I could blame everything on you if I got it wrong.

[fhomess]

Just the last two. They're the only games that have made me lose my mind a little.

Personally, I think this is against the spirit of the rules. Also, I don't entirely believe that second sentence.

Really tremendous hosting job by TPRU. Games like this with a cohesive story behind them that progresses through the game are simply amazing. Photography was, as always from TPRU, superb. I didn't follow the early days all that closely except to see the lynces/results, but did read the last few days in detail. Props to the players for making it an enjoyable and fun read to keep following.

[Hinckley]

Personally, I think this is against the spirit of the rules.

Maybe and I'll consider that next time. I do tend to receive PMs from non-players calling me Scum...in every game I play. And then conversations just start. I caused some trouble amongst friends when I first started playing again lying about my role to people who weren't playing and the implication was that I was sick for doing so. Perhaps I should find some balance. I find it a little uppity to say to somebody "I won't discuss the game while it's in progress."

And for Cornelius, there was nowhere else for me to turn and most of what we talked about was "What the hell is going on in this game???"