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Ragnarök Now 3: Day Eleven

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Day Eleven: Endgame End-Times

The einherjar fled back to Valhalla as fast as they could, hoping to be able to secure the defenses there.

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Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight) struggled to keep up, weighed down by his expensive armour.

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Cranebeinn decided the best thing to do was to leave it behind. He took of his armour and helmet, noting that his hair had grown longer and redder since he'd last checked.

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He didn't expect to see an axe-wielding figure creeping up behind him...

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The two warriors locked axes in a fight to the death...

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... But without his helmet, the shadowy figure was able to catch Cranebeinn in the eye with his axe.

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Cranebeinn the Redder collapsed into the ground, motionless.

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The einherjar continued to run until the break of dawn...

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They arrived at Valhalla just in time to warn Kára and the others of the approaching danger. Kára was shocked to see Canute Grey-Bush and Cranebeinn the Redder missing from the party, both of them as stout-hearted and Loyal as they were.

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"We must shore up the defenses and make sure no monster enters these halls," Kára announced, "but first, we need to deal with the traitor in our midst..."

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Petrus, Agnar and Pudding-Head looked around uneasily...

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Non-Playable Characters

IMG_1976_zpsvbvdyz9e.png Kára

IMG_1979_zpsf2fb8va7.jpg Harald

IMG_1980_zpsoatw8uto.jpg Ragnar

Characters (3)

IMG_1949_zpsw4ro0e01.png Pudding-Head (Hinckley)

IMG_1961_zpsgxcqurdi.png Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora)

IMG_1948_zpsq5i1jvvy.png Agnar Skull-Smasher (Adam)

The Dead

1_zpszhk3sxez.jpg Brand (Brickelodeon) - Loyal - voted out, Day One

2_zpsj6otvry9.jpg Patrekr the Red (Palathadric) - Loyal - murdered, Night One

3_zpsl8ymhll8.jpg Lambi (TheLazyChicken) - Corrupted - murdered, Night One

4_zpsvlm95tgu.jpg Jarl Name-Loser (jluck) - Corrupted - voted out, Day Two

5_zpsztemwwwn.jpg Dagstyrr the Fool (Darkdragon) - Loyal - murdered, Night Two

6_zpspd491alc.jpg Mist (Mencot) - Corrupted - voted out, Day Three

7_zpsox8bp617.jpg Tarben the Wise (Tamamono) - Loyal - murdered, Night Three

8_zps80phlabk.jpg Munud the Strange (mostlytechnic) - Loyal - murdered, Night Three

9_zps16qdnyml.jpg Lodmund the Dwarf (Lord Duvors) - Loyal - voted out, Day Four

10_zpsqhskz0xe.jpg Kaupmad (KingoftheZempk) - Loyal - murdered, Night Four

11_zpsg2yqprdy.jpg Dar (Dragonfire) - Corrupted - voted out, Day Five

12_zpslad2d9u5.jpg Danr the Dragon-Slayer (Dannylonglegs) - Loyal - murdered, Night Four

13_zpssdlqebw8.jpg Ragnvald the Troll (Ranger of the Forest) - Loyal - voted out, Day Six

14_zpsumjdezle.jpg Tarr Egg-Chaser (Tariq j) - Loyal - voted out, Day Seven

15_zpss8tilyqs.jpg Jafri (Jackjonespaw) - Loyal - murdered, Day Seven

16_zpsu9ciqevs.jpg Lauga (Lady K) - Loyal - murdered, Night Seven

17_zpsjvhdn2jr.jpg Petr Half-Troll (Piratedave84) - Corrupted - voted out, Day Eight

18_zpszmzldpyv.jpg Toki (TrumpetKing) - Corrupted - voted out, Day Nine

19_zpslnc529py.jpg Canute Grey-Bush (CallMePie) - Loyal - voted out, Day Ten

20_zpsqpxk1pba.jpg Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight) - Loyal - murdered, Night Ten

Reserves

mediumsnowman

Rules

1. Each player will be given a character to play, who will be aligned with either the Loyal or the Corrupted. To win the game, the Loyal must kill all enemy factions, while the Corrupted must outnumber all rival factions. Neutral characters will have their victory conditions outlined in their role.

2. Each day you will be able to vote to lynch a player. Voting should be done in the following format; Vote: Character (Player). Similarly, unvoting is to be done in the format; Unvote: Character (Player). No other format will be accepted. A majority vote is required to lynch a player.

2b. You may give your proxy vote to a player in the following format: Proxy: Character (Player). Doing so will gift your vote to the player of your choice, effectively giving them an extra vote. You may retract your proxy in the following format: Unproxy: Character (Player).

3. A game day will last for 72 hours. You may not vote in the first 24 hours. After the day has concluded, a night stage will commence, which will last a maximum of 48 hours. Night actions must be sent to the host in the first 24 hours of the night stage.

4. The alignment of lynched players, as well as those that died during the night, will be revealed at the beginning of the next day.

5. You may not quote or pretend to quote anything sent to or from you in PM with the game host. This includes all the details of your character and role, as well as any night action results. Role claims and reporting of night action results are acceptable, but in your own words only. Do not attempt to use the structure of your role PM to your advantage.

5b. Similarly, you may not quote or pretend to quote anything sent by another player via PM. Please paraphrase instead.

6. Do not play the game outside the thread. Similarly, do not post out of character inside the thread; you must always play the role given to you. Game tactics and roles may only be discussed in the game thread or via PM with other players. Private discussion is done at your own risk and should be treated as part of the game.

7. If you are dead, you may not post in thread or discuss the game with any of the players. Any information you had becomes void and may not be passed on.

8. You may not edit your posts.

9. Violation of any of the above rules will result in a vote penalty (1 for every 4 players alive) on the first two occasions and a mod-kill on the third.

10. You must post in every day thread. Failure to do so will result in a mod-kill or a replacement.

11. If you encounter a problem or have any further questions, feel free to contact me via PM.

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What the megabluck? :facepalm:

I tried to track Cranebeinn but was unsuccessful. Why he would block me instead of Petrus is beyond me. She clearly killed him. I can't believe this game is still going...

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I wish I would've muted my e-mail because now I can't sleep.

Canute, thanks for all the protection, rest in peace and geez, you're an megablocks.

I tracked Agnar twice and possibly three times if actions were being driven off of TK onto him. I've never seen him do anything. The most recent time I tracked him Toki and Petr, the last two Scum we lynched, were already dead. I don't think that if there was one remaining Scum, he'd be doing nothing. He'd at least choose the block to target the Serial Killer.

Yup, Petrus is probably the Serial Killer. I trust Kara more than I trust Petrus and he clarified our win conditions for a reason. When I host I normally word win conditions that way to start the game. If the Serial Killer can win with either side, you can leave the rules as the EB Mafia standard. There aren't two Scum teams so why would Kara need to re-iterate how we win unless there's a third party we need to kill in order to win.

Petrus said yesterday "If I were a Serial Killer, why is the whole Town block alive?" It's not all alive. The investigator was dead when he said that and now Canute (which is my doing, really) and Cranebeinn are both gone too. So, Palathadric could've been the vig. I found the investigator on Night One in Ragnarok II. So, it is possible. Petrus says he wouldn't have known it was ticketyboo to claim vig but he never said that to me until I forced him to, long after it was clear there was no counterclaim. He finally said he was the vig right before Day Four started when I basically asked him to say it.

Why wouldn't he kill me? I told him when I contacted him about tracking him (for a while I pretended I was talking to a tracker) that I had told Canute I knew a tracker that was targeting Petrus. And if a Serial Killer can get into the Town block, why not wait around and see what damage they can cause knowing who has what PR? I did exactly that as the Serial Killer in the last game I played. Petrus knows people claim to me and might have the opportunity to learn all of the Power Roles through me and if he has to kill both Scum and Town to win all of his paranoia about if I was Scum or not would be genuine.

Finally, the death of Cranebeinn highly incriminates him. Why kill anyone at all at this point? Well, I've been talking with Petrus from the very beginning and have shown him the most trust. His best bet to survive a lynch would be without one of the two people who wanted to lynch him yesterday. And since he didn't kill Agnar, he's probably afraid he is the bomb, further validating that claim. I don't understand why the vig would kill the blocker especially without discussing it with the tracker that turned over Dar, Petr and Toki.

Six Scum, one Serial Killer. Almost 1/3 of us were enemies. It's clear to me that Agnar doesn't do anything at night. He played the traitor writeboard gambit. If he's Scum and saved his kill for Night Ten... But, if he was Scum I think he would've kept Cranebeinn alive to lynch Petrus with him. Doesn't that make sense?

I have a feeling everyone is going to hate me after this game. But, I hope they don't hate Pudding–Head because he is awesome and Pernilla is an innocent animal so everyone should love her too. She deserves a happy life so I hope whatever happens in this game, she survives the conclusion and has someone to take care of her. :cry_happy:

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Yup, Petrus is probably the Serial Killer. I trust Kara more than I trust Petrus and he clarified our win conditions for a reason. When I host I normally word win conditions that way to start the game. If the Serial Killer can win with either side, you can leave the rules as the EB Mafia standard.

I trust Kára more than I trust you; you're talking out of your poo-pipe. If I were a serial killer (and I'll say yet again that I'm not) then there would be no need for there to be any 'clarification' to the rules. Nothing would have changed since the beginning and no clarification would be necessary. So why was it necessary on day seven? Why not have clear rules from the start? Because I'm not a damn serial killer.

There aren't two Scum teams so why would Kara need to re-iterate how we win unless there's a third party we need to kill in order to win.

The presence or not of third parties was mentioned in the rules on day one. Standard rules, and including neutral in the rules is standard even if there aren't any, so what changed on night six? Why did it suddenly become necessary to change the rules? If there had been a serial killer, that would have been the case since day one, and your flaccid 'reasons' for painting me as a serial killer stem from before night six. Your persistence to paint me as such is just plain desperate.

Petrus said yesterday "If I were a Serial Killer, why is the whole Town block alive?" It's not all alive. The investigator was dead when he said that and now Canute (which is my doing, really) and Cranebeinn are both gone too.

I have explained my reasoning for killing Danr over and over and over. I did not know he was the investigator and I wouldn't have damn well killed him if I had. There was no way I could know he was the investigator, and I genuinely thought he was scum. My posts in the day thread at the time show that. Canute you rightly say is your doing, and I did not kill Cranebeinn. I stayed home last night, and I expected Cranebeinn to block me anyway. You have to paint it so that it's 'obvious' that I killed Cranebeinn, so you say he blocked you (so you couldn't possibly be the killer) but how did Cranebeinn block you if he was dead?

You have lied.

You killed Cranebeinn and you are scum.

So, Palathadric could've been the vig. I found the investigator on Night One in Ragnarok II. So, it is possible.

He could have been the town tracker. Scum would know, having a role cop or a shapeshifter. A serial killer wouldn't.

Petrus says he wouldn't have known it was ticketyboo to claim vig but he never said that to me until I forced him to, long after it was clear there was no counterclaim. He finally said he was the vig right before Day Four started when I basically asked him to say it.

That is bollocks. The second message I sent you I said I thought the vig killed Lambi (in reply to your questions about what I thought had happened) and you didn't 'force' me to any more than I ever forced you to claim town tracker - in fact you just said you were 'the tracker' (after you'd said you always thought of tracker as more of a scum role, something you also apparently said to Canute). You never said "I am the town tracker", but I did say "I am the vig", so if that's your argument, it's weak.

Why wouldn't he kill me? I told him when I contacted him about tracking him (for a while I pretended I was talking to a tracker) that I had told Canute I knew a tracker that was targeting Petrus.

Or more simply, you had managed to convince me you were town.

And if a Serial Killer can get into the Town block, why not wait around and see what damage they can cause knowing who has what PR? I did exactly that as the Serial Killer in the last game I played. Petrus knows people claim to me and might have the opportunity to learn all of the Power Roles through me and if he has to kill both Scum and Town to win all of his paranoia about if I was Scum or not would be genuine.

Uh huh, I did learn them, eventually, although I never once asked who anyone was. The only Power Role I killed was one I didn't know about, so my 'infiltration' was a huge success. :hmpf:

Finally, the death of Cranebeinn highly incriminates him.

Does it bollocks.

Why kill anyone at all at this point?

Finally, a good point. That's exactly why I didn't kill last night, you did.

Well, I've been talking with Petrus from the very beginning and have shown him the most trust. His best bet to survive a lynch would be without one of the two people who wanted to lynch him yesterday.

My best bet to survive a lynch would have been to stay home, which I did. And you haven't shown me the most trust at all. That's absolute crap. You came up with a theory yesterday that fitted; that Canute was scum, and I thought he was the one who'd been vacillating over me being the vig or a serial killer, but he said you were the one who'd been saying that all game. I disbelieved him because I thought he was scum, but knowing now he's actually Loyal, he had no reason to lie.

And since he didn't kill Agnar, he's probably afraid he is the bomb, further validating that claim.

Or rather, you are afraid she's the bomb, which is why you didn't kill her. I think there's a real possibility she's the bomb. You would know for certain, because you're scum.

I don't understand why the vig would kill the blocker especially without discussing it with the tracker that turned over Dar, Petr and Toki.

I didn't kill Cranebeinn, and it was Danr who turned over Dar not you. If you hadn't mentioned Danr's positive investigation result it would have been too obvious you were scum. And Petr and Toki (who I was trying very hard as vig to get rid of until you or Canute - never did get to the bottom of that, except Cranebeinn said you mentioned it first - had me blocked) were expendable late buses to solidify you as town as I said yesterday. It doesn't matter to them if they're dead as long as you go on to win it for the team.

Six Scum, one Serial Killer.

Nope, seven scum and a vig. Six scum would be reasonable, without conversions, but converting is the most likely thing you have been doing instead of killing.

Almost 1/3 of us were enemies. It's clear to me that Agnar doesn't do anything at night. He played the traitor writeboard gambit. If he's Scum and saved his kill for Night Ten... But, if he was Scum I think he would've kept Cranebeinn alive to lynch Petrus with him. Doesn't that make sense?

Agnar, Pudding wants you to feel good that he believes you're town so that you'll vote with him.

I have a feeling everyone is going to hate me after this game.

I have a feeling a lot of people already do, after you got them lynched or killed by me.

Pernilla is an innocent animal so everyone should love her too. She deserves a happy life so I hope whatever happens in this game, she survives the conclusion and has someone to take care of her. :cry_happy:

When will Pernilla be oinking?

It is abundantly clear the only reason for 'clarifying rules' midway through a game is because something has changed - and what changed was that you achieved a conversion. You could have killed me last night, but maybe friendship got in the way (you muttered something about friendship in a recent PM), or rather you felt I'd be an easy lynch leaving you with just one townie and a win for you. Or maybe you even thought I actually was a serial killer, and hoped that today wouldn't happen safely knowing that Cranebeinn would be blocking me leaving you free to kill him and there'd be some sort of parity and a win for you. Sorry to disappoint you; I'm town, always have been.

So Agnar, it's pretty much going to come down to you today I think. You set out reasons the other day for why you still thought I might be a serial killer and I answered them fully, just as I've answered everything else. Feel free to ask me anything else you'd like to know, because both of our lives depend on you believing me when I tell you that I'm the vig.

Think of it this way, perhaps. Worst case scenario for you is Scum-Pudding, SK-Petrus and you. You definitely can't win with scum, but seeing as I won't be killing you in case of explosions, that would force a tie between a supposed-SK-me and you. In fact, that would still happen I guess in the unlikely event that Pudding is town, but he's clearly not. If you lynch me, even if I am a serial killer (and I'll say for the thousandth time that I'm not, I am the vig) Scum would be at parity with you and they'd win.

Essentially, lynching me has a much greater risk of you completely and utterly losing the game for all of us. But this is all under the assumption that you, Agnar, are actually town; but after all that from Pudding it seems pretty clear to me that Pudding is scum so you must be town.

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Finally, a good point. That's exactly why I didn't kill last night, you did.

I was hoping this was going to be your defense because now I know my suspicion is on the right person. :cry_happy: I'm looking forward to this being over.

Agnar, it looks like Petrus and I will be voting for each other. Whatever you choose, no hard feelings, but I'm Town. I don't care what happens to me as long as Pernilla is OK. :cry_happy:

If I were a serial killer (and I'll say yet again that I'm not) then there would be no need for there to be any 'clarification' to the rules.

It's the only logical explanation I can come up with. It was nagging at me yesterday. I even said so to you which you said you could understand. Today, you can't, of course. But, what else can you do? You have to try to win. It's the role you were assigned. You can't win with us. Which sucks because we had fun. I wish we could win together. I was hoping this wasn't the case but it seems clear to me now that it is. :cry_sad: I should've lynched you yesterday but you can thank Canute for the extra day since he was the Scummiest player to ever play this game. Ever.

I think other things but they are theories that my mind is coming up with and maybe I should keep them to myself for now. All the rambling I do may possibly hurt the Town. :blush:

I have a feeling a lot of people already do, after you got them lynched or killed by me.

Including half of the Scum team, yes. I agree. I'm probably not the dead's favorite. :blush:

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I was hoping this was going to be your defense because now I know my suspicion is on the right person.

After you lie about being blocked by a dead man it's the only conclusion I can draw.

And after you lie about being blocked by a dead man I know my suspicion is on the right person.

Agnar, it looks like Petrus and I will be voting for each other. Whatever you choose, no hard feelings, but I'm Town. I don't care what happens to me as long as Pernilla is OK. :cry_happy:

"I'm such a nice person really, Agnar. Please don't vote for me."

It's the only logical explanation I can come up with. It was nagging at me yesterday. I even said so to you which you said you could understand. Today, you can't, of course.

Read again Pudding. I said I could understand your concern and I said I thought it was due to something that changed during the game, most probably a conversion. And clearly I do understand the concern as to why the rules had to be clarified, it's just quite obviously not because you think I'm a serial killer. It's because something happened, and if I were a serial killer I would have been from the start of the game. Y'know, when neutrals are first mentioned. Even though I'm not neutral, I'm town.

Including half of the Scum team, yes. I agree. I'm probably not the dead's favorite. :blush:

They'll forgive you when you convince Agnar to lynch me and you and the rest of the scum win.

Want to explain how a dead man 'blocked' you?

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Want to explain how a dead man 'blocked' you?

What are you, new? You expect anyone to believe that you really think a player targeted for a night also gets their Action blocked? :wacko: Eh? You know that's not how it works.

That should read "targeted for a night kill".

Why, when I've been so busy, did I agree to play two Mafia games, thinking I'd be out long before the end, have I survived down to three people? :laugh:

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What are you, new? You expect anyone to believe that you really think a player targeted for a night also gets their Action blocked? :wacko: Eh? You know that's not how it works.

You're barely making sense.

How did Cranebeinn 'block' you considering he's dead? You know full well that he could not have blocked you on account of being dead.

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Read again Pudding. I said I could understand your concern and I said I thought it was due to something that changed during the game, most probably a conversion. And clearly I do understand the concern as to why the rules had to be clarified, it's just quite obviously not because you think I'm a serial killer. It's because something happened, and if I were a serial killer I would have been from the start of the game. Y'know, when neutrals are first mentioned. Even though I'm not neutral, I'm town.

But that's not what Hosty said at all. He said it's been that way all along, he just clarified it. You're trying to suggest game mechanics caused it. That's not what happened. Hosty said so.

How did Cranebeinn 'block' you considering he's dead? You know full well that he could not have blocked you on account of being dead.

No. I know the opposite. Block happens before kill. He blocked me and you killed him. That's how Night Actions work.

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Here's an example:

Night Two

Russians

Max kills Elena. Result: Successful

Serial Killer

Raya kills Max. Result: Successful (Max targets Elena)

Granted that's from one of my own games. I'll look to see if something similar happened in a Ragnarok game.

If a player with a non-informative action is killed, that action is still performed. If you are trying to kill a player and stop their action, they need to be blocked and killed. Informative roles aren't successful because the player can't use the information anyway. If you want to research it yourself, you'll find this to be standard in EB Mafia, I believe.

Ragnarok I:

Night Actions

Night One

Fugazi - kill no one

Waterbrick Down - kill JimButcher

badboytje88 - compare Pandora and Hinckley

CallMePie - track Fugazi

Capt. Redblade - watch Scouty

Chromeknight - invent for fhomess (bulletproof)

Scouty - protect Pandora

Dragonator - block badboytje88

fhomess - find no one

Hinckley - convert no one

Sisco - kill Shadows

Darkdragon - decoy Pandora

JimButcher - prank Dragonator

Bob - investigate Fugazi

Captain Genaro - block Rick

Although JimButcher is killed, he still pranks Dragonator.

Night Two

Fugazi - kill Sandy

Waterbrick Down - kill CorneliusMurdock

badboytje88 - compare badboytje88 and Hinckley

CallMePie - track Dragonator

Capt. Redblade - watch Dragonator

Chromeknight - invent for Fugazi

Scouty - protect Dragonator

Dragonator - block Pandora

fhomess - find badboytje88

Hinckley - convert no one

Sisco - kill Fugazi

Darkdragon - decoy badboytje88

Bob - block Fugazi

We kill Fugazi, so naturally we block him too so he can't perform his Action because...guess what?...killing doesn't block his Action.

Night Three

Waterbrick Down - kill Sisco

badboytje88 - compare badboytje88 and Rick

CallMePie - track Pandora

Capt. Redblade - watch Dragonator

Chromeknight - invent for WhiteFang

Scouty - protect badboytje88

Dragonator - block fhomess

fhomess - find Pandora

Sisco - ascetic/kill badboytje88

Darkdragon - block Chromeknight

Bob - role cop Dragonator

Dead Sisco kills badboy.

Night Five

CallMePie - track WhiteFang

Capt. Redblade - watch Dragonator

Chromeknight - invent for Dragonator

Scouty - protect Dragonator

Dragonator - block Pandora

Waterbrick Down - kill Darkdragon

Darkdragon - convert Waterbrick Down

Dead Darkdragon converts Waterbrick Down to Scum.

So, yeah. Dead Cranebeinn blocked me.

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Everyone probably knew I couldn't quit rambling, cold turkey. :blush:

I have explained my reasoning for killing Danr over and over and over. I did not know he was the investigator and I wouldn't have damn well killed him if I had. There was no way I could know he was the investigator, and I genuinely thought he was scum. My posts in the day thread at the time show that. Canute you rightly say is your doing, and I did not kill Cranebeinn. I stayed home last night, and I expected Cranebeinn to block me anyway. You have to paint it so that it's 'obvious' that I killed Cranebeinn, so you say he blocked you (so you couldn't possibly be the killer) but how did Cranebeinn block you if he was dead?

You have lied.

You killed Cranebeinn and you are scum.

My theory, because if I were in this situation (assuming Petrus is the Serial Killer) I wouldn't want to kill anyone last night so as not to be incriminated. When I was the SK in Unrest, I was compulsory. Maybe...maybe Petrus tried to kill Toki on Night Eight and Cranebeinn on Night Nine and last night had to kill and Cranebeinn was the best bet. I do wonder what would've happened if Agnar had posted first thinking Petrus was the Serial Killer.

That is bollocks. The second message I sent you I said I thought the vig killed Lambi (in reply to your questions about what I thought had happened)

Before I told you you had been tracked targeting Lambi. And you postulated that Patrekr (not Palathadric :tongue:) had been a Serial Killer target and you thought there was a kill missing...

", but I did say "I am the vig", so if that's your argument, it's weak.

On Day Four. Before that, everything was very carefully worded, which is why I asked you to say it. It was making me uncomfortable.

The only Power Role I killed was one I didn't know about, so my 'infiltration' was a huge success. :hmpf:

And I revealed them to you afterwards so you wouldn't accidentally kill any more. And I fully believe you were checking to see if I was Scum. If you can't win with either side you have to try to figure out who the Scum are too.

Finally, a good point. That's exactly why I didn't kill last night, you did.

If I were Scum I would've:

A. killed someone on Night Seven and said I tracked you doing it. Then we would've killed someone Night Eight and Toki, Petr and I would've outnumbered you.

B. Instead of saying my track was blocked last night, I would've said I tracked Petrus and she targeted Cranebeinn.

At least you admit you had no good reason to kill Cranebeinn. You're the only remaining player with a known killing Action. I've clearly tracked everyone, some several times and Agnar continuously does nothing. (Truth be told he has some nudey carvings, but that's none of our business, really). Maybe you should've suggested that you tried to kill me and I redirected you onto Cranebeinn. That might've been more believable. Not for me, but maybe for Agnar. Then again, I can't speak for Agnar so I might be lynched after all, knowing full well that I'm Town.

and it was Danr who turned over Dar not you. If you hadn't mentioned Danr's positive investigation result it would have been too obvious you were scum.

I told Danr to investigate him. We have no way to confirm that, I'm aware. But that's what happened.

When will Pernilla be oinking?

Don't you hurt my Pernilla! :cry_sad:

Think of it this way, perhaps. Worst case scenario for you is Scum-Pudding, SK-Petrus and you. You definitely can't win with scum, but seeing as I won't be killing you in case of explosions, that would force a tie between a supposed-SK-me and you. In fact, that would still happen I guess in the unlikely event that Pudding is town, but he's clearly not. If you lynch me, even if I am a serial killer (and I'll say for the thousandth time that I'm not, I am the vig) Scum would be at parity with you and they'd win.

:sceptic: Isn't this a confession? :look:

My theory, because if I were in this situation (assuming Petrus is the Serial Killer) I wouldn't want to kill anyone last night so as not to be incriminated. When I was the SK in Unrest, I was compulsory. Maybe...maybe Petrus tried to kill Toki on Night Eight and Cranebeinn on Night Nine and last night had to kill and Cranebeinn was the best bet. I do wonder what would've happened if Agnar had posted first thinking Petrus was the Serial Killer.

Wow, that's worded terribly. My theory, because if I were Petrus in this situation (assuming he is the Serial Killer)...

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You may now vote. With 3 players remaining, 2 votes are required to lynch. 48 hours remain in the day.

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Vote: Petrus Fire–Starter (Pandora)

I really would've liked to have both of us win this but I don't think we're on the same side. I wish the Serial Killer could win with the Town but it appears that that is not the case. If Agnar lynches me, congratulations on a well–deserved win. :thumbup:

It would suck if we were both Town and Agnar was Scum. :hmpf: But he didn't do anything on Night Nine when the last two lynched Scum were already gone. I think he would've done something...like kill me. If the dead are screaming at me, I just can't hear them...

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Vote: Pudding-Head (Hinckley)

But that's not what Hosty said at all. He said it's been that way all along, he just clarified it. You're trying to suggest game mechanics caused it. That's not what happened. Hosty said so.

So your argument is that I'm a serial killer and because I was still alive, even with both now-confirmed scum and town around at the time, Hosty felt it was necessary to warn you of my presence, even though you and Canute had publicly floated ideas of me being a serial killer anyway (for still no good reason)? What's the point in that? Hosty thinks "Oh dear, there's a serial killer who's still alive, I should warn everyone!" Really??

Do you really think Hosty would do that? I don't know why Hosty felt the need to clarify, but your argument just doesn't make any sense.

No. I know the opposite. Block happens before kill. He blocked me and you killed him. That's how Night Actions work.

We can argue about this until your teeth fall out, but it doesn't actually matter. I stayed home and you killed Cranebeinn. Even you say it doesn't make any sense for Cranebeinn to block you, and the most likely thing he actually did do was block me, except I can't say for certain because I stayed home.

My theory, because if I were in this situation (assuming Petrus is the Serial Killer) I wouldn't want to kill anyone last night so as not to be incriminated. When I was the SK in Unrest, I was compulsory. Maybe...maybe Petrus tried to kill Toki on Night Eight and Cranebeinn on Night Nine and last night had to kill and Cranebeinn was the best bet.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I stayed home both those nights just like I did last night. Just like a vig does. Because I am the vig.

I do wonder what would've happened if Agnar had posted first thinking Petrus was the Serial Killer.

I would still be arguing that you are scum, because we're still here and one of you must be scum. My money's on it being you.

Before I told you you had been tracked targeting Lambi. And you postulated that Patrekr (not Palathadric :tongue:) had been a Serial Killer target and you thought there was a kill missing...

Yes, I 'postulated' that because I knew I'd killed Lambi and that I was (and am) the vig, and Patrekr seemed like an unusual scum-kill to me. So I thought the missing kill was the scum kill. Turns out the missing kills have been serial killer kills because there isn't one.

On Day Four. Before that, everything was very carefully worded, which is why I asked you to say it. It was making me uncomfortable.

It was carefully worded on both sides, and you know I never trust you; you even made a joke about that on day one in the thread. And like I say, that's a weak argument considering you never said "I am the town tracker". :hmpf:

And I fully believe you were checking to see if I was Scum. If you can't win with either side you have to try to figure out who the Scum are too.

Well that's good, because that seems to be the main reason anyone thinks I'm a serial killer. The funny thing is, though, that I was trying to figure out who the scum are to kill them because I'm the vig.

If I were Scum I would've:

A. killed someone on Night Seven and said I tracked you doing it. Then we would've killed someone Night Eight and Toki, Petr and I would've outnumbered you.

B. Instead of saying my track was blocked last night, I would've said I tracked Petrus and she targeted Cranebeinn.

How's your kill been working out for you? You've only managed it twice. Did you need me around to shapeshift my kill? You made a big song and dance about how I couldn't hide my kill because it's the axe kill, until I pointed out that all the kills were axe kills and therefore I could've easily claimed the scum killed Danr. So you needed me around for your kills, continuing with the "oooh, but he might be a serial killer" until you have no further need for me, which is why you're trying to lynch me now.

And if you'd said you tracked me then wouldn't Agnar be wondering why I wasn't blocked? Or what happened to Cranebeinn's block?

At least you admit you had no good reason to kill Cranebeinn. You're the only remaining player with a known killing Action.

Uh huh, because I had no good reason to kill him, so I didn't. And your killing action just isn't known. How would anyone find out? By tracking you? :look:

I've clearly tracked everyone, some several times and Agnar continuously does nothing.

Nah, you've rolecopped her (or possibly shapeshifted her) and you only have to do that once to confidently say "Agnar does nothing". And then Agnar feels all warm and fuzzy because she thinks you 'think' she's town. And if your team has a tracking role (yes Pudding, it is more of a scum role, isn't it?) that can fill in the gaps.

Maybe you should've suggested that you tried to kill me and I redirected you onto Cranebeinn. That might've been more believable.

Maybe I should have just killed you instead of staying home, but chances are I was blocked anyway. You may not think it's believable, but it's the truth.

Not for me, but maybe for Agnar. Then again, I can't speak for Agnar so I might be lynched after all, knowing full well that I'm Town.

Except you're not town, and how do you expect Agnar to know full well that you're town? Or are you accusing her of being scum now?

:sceptic: Isn't this a confession? :look:

You think a confession consists of me screaming over and over "I am the vig"?

I know Agnar likes to weigh up the pros and cons of her actions. I'm pointing out over and over all the reasons why I'm the vig, but I'm trying to make it very clear to her that the point is not whether or not she thinks I'm a serial killer, the point is whether she's absolutely, positively, definitely, certain that you aren't scum. Because the entire game depends upon that. Unfortunately, the only way Agnar could be so certain would be if she were scum herself.

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Again, I'm surprised you aren't considering any possibilities. The idea that I would be able to kill is silly, in my opinion. I was unsuccessful, assuming I was blocked by Cranebeinn. Maybe you are compulsive and hoped you were blocked by Cranebeinn.

I've trusted you way too easily. When you killed Danr, I looked back over our conversation but since it's so long and I've been so busy, I just did a Ctrl+F for Dan and looked where his name had come up. Reading through the thread I find something much more interesting.

On July 17th, I tell you that Danr is someone I'm considering tracking after you go on about him unvoting and how that was Scummy because he thought he wasn't going to be around but then he was. I don't mention any other names that I consider tracking. And then I don't give you any results on Day Four to what I found on Day Three.

Then when discussing Night Actions for Night Four which is when you kill Kapmaud, we have this interchange:

(after discussing the difference between 11 and 16 for two pages :laugh:)

Me: Can we discuss kill targets so we don't cross any NAs?

Petrus: Sure. Give me a list of people to consider.

Me: Dar, Toki, Kapmaud. The blocker is considering the same options. I'll track whichever one is not blocked or killed.

Petrus: No, a list of people not being considered by the other NAs so I won't interfere with who they're targeting.

Me: But you also have to avoid the PRs themselves. :sceptic:

Petrus: It's best not to tell me who any of them are. Should I just go with my gut?

Me: Not if your gut tells you to kill the blocker, protector, investigator or bomb.

Petrus: Then shall I stay home?

Me: Dar is being investigated so kill Toki or Kapmaud.

Skip to Night Five

Me: The investigator is targeting Dar so that would be a waste if you also killed him.

Petrus: OK, Lauga or Petr?

Me: Lauga was investigated as Town. How about Tarr, Jafri or Ragnvald?

Petrus: (reactions to those three names) What about Petr?

Me: One one hand, you can stay home as we're ahead. On the other hand you can remove a potential suspect.

(and onto the spot where Petrus kills Danr)

OK, so when I freak out that you kill the investigator you say that I didn't seem like a gave a megabluck who you killed. Does what I said actually sound like I don't give a megabluck?? :wacko: I specifically say exactly what I didn't think you understood that people I didn't mention shouldn't be targeted. Since I told you I trusted Pie and you knew Cranebeinn was the blocker and we discussed every other person, it may be very obvious to you who the investigator is. And the investigator is the only person who could ruin your gambit as the vig.

I looked over everything I have with Agnar too. If he's Scum it's a huge case of WIFOM with the anonymous writeboard gambit. :sceptic: Also, the final Scum traditionally is given a block and a kill so he could've blocked me and killed Cranebeinn. But if he was able to do that, he definitely could've done something on Night Nine when I tracked him doing nothing. I'll keep looking into both of you but I think my vote is currently in the right place.

:hmpf: *any other possibilities.

And the couple of times we discussed you staying home that was a perfectly viable solution for those nights and yet you never stayed home. I don't know that Hosty would make a Serial Killer compulsive but he had a vig and a compulsive vig in Ragnarok I.

Geez, I left a lot of analysis out. Not only is it possible to figure Danr by process of elimination, I tell you I'm considering tracking him on the night after I announce an investigator contacts me and then I don't report any results from tracking nor do I start any cases about Danr. So while your story about not trusting me is believable, since I know I am Town and your accusation seems silly to me, it is possible you were purposely searching for the investigator.

So your argument is that I'm a serial killer and because I was still alive, even with both now-confirmed scum and town around at the time, Hosty felt it was necessary to warn you of my presence, even though you and Canute had publicly floated ideas of me being a serial killer anyway (for still no good reason)? What's the point in that? Hosty thinks "Oh dear, there's a serial killer who's still alive, I should warn everyone!" Really??

Do you really think Hosty would do that? I don't know why Hosty felt the need to clarify, but your argument just doesn't make any sense.

The original way our win condition was worded would make it sound like we could win with the Serial Killer. I think the Town would have a good reason to gripe if we couldn't and the rules didn't reflect that. As it is, if you are the Serial Killer, I think you have a good reason to gripe if that is what he did.

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Vote count

Pudding (Hinckley): 1 vote (Pandora)

Petrus (Pandora) : 1 vote (hinckley)

2 votes required for lynch. 36 hours remain.

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We can argue about this until your teeth fall out, but it doesn't actually matter. I stayed home and you killed Cranebeinn. Even you say it doesn't make any sense for Cranebeinn to block you, and the most likely thing he actually did do was block me, except I can't say for certain because I stayed home.

OK, so if you did stay home (which I obviously doubt) why would I be the killer in this case and not Agnar? You're usually pretty good at considering all possibilities so this seems weird to me. I wish I had been successful because I would've seen who Cranebeinn did block and I'd have no question in my mind who killed him. As it stands, I only know that I did not as I am the Town Tracker. Maybe I've mentioned that somewhere before.

Vpye

Oh really? Well Vpye your face, Hosty!

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Maybe, maybe, maybe. I stayed home both those nights just like I did last night. Just like a vig does. Because I am the vig.

Maybe I don't know exactly what is happening because I'm Town and it's my job to figure it out, not to kill everyone. I wouldn't expect you to say you're the Serial Killer, you know.

I would still be arguing that you are scum, because we're still here and one of you must be scum. My money's on it being you.

Or some other faction or enemy, like...Serial Killer, maybe?

Yes, I 'postulated' that because I knew I'd killed Lambi and that I was (and am) the vig, and Patrekr seemed like an unusual scum-kill to me. So I thought the missing kill was the scum kill. Turns out the missing kills have been serial killer kills because there isn't one.

My point is that you weren't claiming vig to me at the time. You were just associating the Lambi kill with the vig and distancing it from the Serial Killer. That's what is suspicious. Then you don't actually say you're the vig until four game days later when it's clear nobody is counterclaiming.

It was carefully worded on both sides, and you know I never trust you; you even made a joke about that on day one in the thread. And like I say, that's a weak argument considering you never said "I am the town tracker". :hmpf:

While I do think vig vs. Serial Killer is more of a discrepancy, my feeling was that you were cautiously never mentioned the term "vigilante". When someone says "I tracked you killing Scum"...the alignment is very specifically up in the air with killing roles.

Well that's good, because that seems to be the main reason anyone thinks I'm a serial killer. The funny thing is, though, that I was trying to figure out who the scum are to kill them because I'm the vig.

The Serial Killer tell is different than Scum tell because you have to find out who the Scum are if you need to kill everyone. So naturally you are looking for the Scum and you did a great job. That's why it would suck to lose after playing a great game. We'll yell at Hosty for it later.

How's your kill been working out for you? You've only managed it twice. Did you need me around to shapeshift my kill? You made a big song and dance about how I couldn't hide my kill because it's the axe kill, until I pointed out that all the kills were axe kills and therefore I could've easily claimed the scum killed Danr. So you needed me around for your kills, continuing with the "oooh, but he might be a serial killer" until you have no further need for me, which is why you're trying to lynch me now.

Are you suggesting that I shapeshifted your kill but only used it three times throughout the game?

And if you'd said you tracked me then wouldn't Agnar be wondering why I wasn't blocked? Or what happened to Cranebeinn's block?

So the "Dead men can't block" argument just evaporated, huh?

Uh huh, because I had no good reason to kill him, so I didn't. And your killing action just isn't known. How would anyone find out? By tracking you? :look:

He would've voted to lynch you today. You stand a better chance only trying to convince one of us to lynch the other and you couldn't target the bomb.

Except you're not town, and how do you expect Agnar to know full well that you're town? Or are you accusing her of being scum now?

I have no idea what she thinks and perhaps my participle is dangling. What I meant was "If I am lynched it will be knowing full well that I am Town." I will know that I'm Town as I'm lynched. Because I know this. Because it's in my role PM. That's what I am: the Town Tracker.

I know Agnar likes to weigh up the pros and cons of her actions. I'm pointing out over and over all the reasons why I'm the vig, but I'm trying to make it very clear to her that the point is not whether or not she thinks I'm a serial killer, the point is whether she's absolutely, positively, definitely, certain that you aren't scum. Because the entire game depends upon that. Unfortunately, the only way Agnar could be so certain would be if she were scum herself.

Well, I hope that turning over three Scum corpses is enough, but only time will tell. I hope anyway. Agnar hasn't been around for a while. Did you kill her too? :tongue: No matter what happens, the game will end, finally. :cry_happy: It's been fun but I've spent a lot of time on this game and I didn't expect for it to go this long. If Agnar is Scum and you're the Serial Killer then I'm just a pawn anyway. I want (the Town) to win but I can't really be confident in anything right now. It's all up to Agnar, I believe.

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Again, I'm surprised you aren't considering any possibilities. The idea that I would be able to kill is silly, in my opinion. I was unsuccessful, assuming I was blocked by Cranebeinn. Maybe you are compulsive and hoped you were blocked by Cranebeinn.

That doesn't even make any sense. :wacko:

I have considered the possibility that you're town and Agnar is scum, but on the evidence I have I think that you're scum and she's town. You can't both be scum, otherwise you would have already won and I'd be dead. It was Agnar herself who messaged me about three million years ago suspecting you were scum, and I responded in kind. It was you who asked me, for no clear reason (you just said that there was a reason), to make a case against Agnar several days ago, and I declined because i didn't see much to make a case about. Why would you have asked me to do that?

I've trusted you way too easily.

Which is megablocks, because you never trust 'way too easily', Mr 'Verify, verify, verify'.

On July 17th, I tell you that Danr is someone I'm considering tracking after you go on about him unvoting and how that was Scummy because he thought he wasn't going to be around but then he was. I don't mention any other names that I consider tracking. And then I don't give you any results on Day Four to what I found on Day Three.

Uh huh, I told you I thought he was scummy, and it seemed to me like you just ignored that.

Me: One one hand, you can stay home as we're ahead. On the other hand you can remove a potential suspect.

(and onto the spot where Petrus kills Danr)

"Yeah, you can kill any of those four, or not kill, or whatever."

OK, so when I freak out that you kill the investigator you say that I didn't seem like a gave a megabluck who you killed. Does what I said actually sound like I don't give a megabluck?? :wacko:

Yup.

I specifically say exactly what I didn't think you understood that people I didn't mention shouldn't be targeted.

Uh huh, but I told you I thought Danr was scum, I suggested you track him, I called him out in the thread, and you said... nothing. So I thought he was a scum mate you were hiding, so I killed him. You literally just said you understood all of this.

Since I told you I trusted Pie and you knew Cranebeinn was the blocker and we discussed every other person, it may be very obvious to you who the investigator is. And the investigator is the only person who could ruin your gambit as the vig.

We discussed everyone, and I actually wondered if Canute (who's Pie? :look:) might have been the investigator at that point. There is no way in this world or the next I could have known Danr was the investigator, and your insistence now, after saying you understood my actions, is just plain scummy.

I'll keep looking into both of you but I think my vote is currently in the right place.

Well I'm pretty certain my vote is in the right place.

And the couple of times we discussed you staying home that was a perfectly viable solution for those nights and yet you never stayed home. I don't know that Hosty would make a Serial Killer compulsive but he had a vig and a compulsive vig in Ragnarok I.

So... your argument about whether or not I stayed home those nights (and I did) is invalidated because there's previously been a compulsive vig. I don't care, I stayed home. I didn't kill Cranebeinn, and the only logical explanation is that you did.

Geez, I left a lot of analysis out. Not only is it possible to figure Danr by process of elimination, I tell you I'm considering tracking him on the night after I announce an investigator contacts me and then I don't report any results from tracking nor do I start any cases about Danr. So while your story about not trusting me is believable, since I know I am Town and your accusation seems silly to me, it is possible you were purposely searching for the investigator.

No it isn't and wasn't possible to 'figure Danr out'. You're just making stuff up now. You told me that Tammo had contacted you to tell you that the investigator had 'cleared' you both (redirector, was it?) and then two pages later after discussing how much you trusted Pie - how you trusted him the most beside me, and how he was more trustworthy than.. Dar, Kaupmad and Lodmund (who I said weren't exactly yardsticks for trustworthiness), and how you thought I should kill Lauga or Ragnvald, except not really because you were 'rambling', and how you 'always knew I wasn't scum' and yes the whole weird number thing (was it 5, or 11 or 16?), to try to somehow direct a scummy Canute to the bomb if you died and I thought Canute was scum (except I pointed out that if I thought Canute was scum I'd just kill him) and blah, blah, two pages later you mention considering tracking Danr, and from that I'm supposed to intuit that Danr's the investigator, who hadn't even contacted you or claimed to you or been mentioned by name to you at that point as far as I knew.

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That doesn't even make any sense. :wacko:

I have considered the possibility that you're town and Agnar is scum, but on the evidence I have I think that you're scum and she's town. You can't both be scum, otherwise you would have already won and I'd be dead. It was Agnar herself who messaged me about three million years ago suspecting you were scum, and I responded in kind. It was you who asked me, for no clear reason (you just said that there was a reason), to make a case against Agnar several days ago, and I declined because i didn't see much to make a case about. Why would you have asked me to do that?

He planned that with me. To get the Scum to target him. So he'd explode.

We discussed everyone, and I actually wondered if Canute (who's Pie? :look:) might have been the investigator at that point. There is no way in this world or the next I could have known Danr was the investigator, and your insistence now, after saying you understood my actions, is just plain scummy.

What insistence? Where?

Well I'm pretty certain my vote is in the right place.

Well it's not. I'm the Town tracker. Have I mentioned? Should we go through all of things that we knew because I reported it? And why would Scum track Townies who claimed to him? To make sure they weren't lying about their Town roles? :hmpf:

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Maybe I don't know exactly what is happening because I'm Town and it's my job to figure it out, not to kill everyone. I wouldn't expect you to say you're the Serial Killer, you know.

Well you seemed pretty certain first thing this morning. I wouldn't expect you to say you're scum. Although you do like oinking.

Or some other faction or enemy, like...Serial Killer, maybe?

I don't believe there is one because there have never been more than two kills in a night. I don't think it's hard to see why I don't think there's a serial killer.

My point is that you weren't claiming vig to me at the time. You were just associating the Lambi kill with the vig and distancing it from the Serial Killer. That's what is suspicious. Then you don't actually say you're the vig until four game days later when it's clear nobody is counterclaiming.

That's not suspicious. Geez, I even made a joke about the fact you needed me to say it out loud, like I was saying 'I love you' or something. :hmpf:

I just thought it was megablocking obvious, apparently not.

While I do think vig vs. Serial Killer is more of a discrepancy, my feeling was that you were cautiously never mentioned the term "vigilante". When someone says "I tracked you killing Scum"...the alignment is very specifically up in the air with killing roles.

No, the assumption for any normal person who tracks someone killing scum on night one is that they're the vig. Later, when I call out Mist, and lead the vote on Jarl (who you defended against Cranebeinn), it should be blatantly obvious I'm the vig. If you're still wondering on day four, because I haven't said those four little words, then you're just not reading my posts in the thread (or PMs for that matter). And I keep saying, this is such a weak argument, because you never said "I'm the town tracker".

The Serial Killer tell is different than Scum tell because you have to find out who the Scum are if you need to kill everyone.

Uh huh, but serial killers tend to target town early on, and not night kill scum or get scum lynched, because they don't want to be left with a load of dead scum and a bunch of townies. But I've been after scum from night one. Just like a vig.

Are you suggesting that I shapeshifted your kill but only used it three times throughout the game?

Yup, you had me killing who you wanted anyway, and you could direct the lynch, so after Tarben died there wasn't much need until last night when it was convenient to kill Cranebeinn and frame me. You kept me around to continue the night kills that you guided us towards, and just in case things got sticky and you needed another kill yourself (or yourselves, as was the case a few nights ago).

So the "Dead men can't block" argument just evaporated, huh?

Like I said, it's irrelevant anyway, because either way you weren't blocked. It's far more likely Cranebeinn blocked me and not you.

He would've voted to lynch you today.

Except you're trying to convince us that he blocked you. And you were ever so uppity about the fact that Crane and I were talking 'without you'.

It's all up to Agnar, I believe.

That's probably the only thing we're going to agree on.

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So... your argument about whether or not I stayed home those nights (and I did) is invalidated because there's previously been a compulsive vig. I don't care, I stayed home. I didn't kill Cranebeinn, and the only logical explanation is that you did.

What logic? You've just pulled it out of your poo-pipe with zero evidence. It's completely illogical as I am Town and I am the Tracker. I might've mentioned that before. I think that Cranebeinn was killed by...wait for it...the killer, which is you. Serial Killer not vig. :def_shrug: By your logic, Agnar is just as likely to be the killer. :wacko: Yet, you stick to your theory despite all logic and without any evidence.

Well you seemed pretty certain first thing this morning. I wouldn't expect you to say you're scum. Although you do like oinking.

Did I? I weighed my options and decided that the killer did the killing. :wacko: Agnar having an Action goes against the results of my Action which is the only thing I can fully trust. I'd really hate it if he's Scum and you and I are Town accusing each other endlessly. :hmpf:

two pages later you mention considering tracking Danr,

No. Two pages earlier. Not that it matters but it was before that conversation, right?

And here's what the code was. I had been telling Canute about my suspicions over whether you were the vig or Serial Killer. He needed to know your identity in case I was killed. But I wasn't comfortable with that at the time. So I told him if I was killed to go to you and the number you gave him would be the number of the person in the list of players in the confirmation thread who was the vig. You. And then if you gave him the other number, it would be Agnar, the bomb. So if you didn't trust Pie you'd tell him that Agnar was the vig. Yes, I forgot you could just kill him if you didn't trust him. :laugh: I told Agnar the same code, hoping to connect the three of you if I died. Canute and Danr both knew who the blocker was.

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He planned that with me. To get the Scum to target him. So he'd explode.

Which did she plan? Telling me she was suspicious of you, or you asking me to make a case against her?

What insistence? Where?

This insistence. Here.

Since I told you I trusted Pie and you knew Cranebeinn was the blocker and we discussed every other person, it may be very obvious to you who the investigator is. And the investigator is the only person who could ruin your gambit as the vig.

Not only is it possible to figure Danr by process of elimination, I tell you I'm considering tracking him on the night after I announce an investigator contacts me and then I don't report any results from tracking nor do I start any cases about Danr. So while your story about not trusting me is believable, since I know I am Town and your accusation seems silly to me, it is possible you were purposely searching for the investigator.

Well it's not. I'm the Town tracker. Have I mentioned?

I keep saying I'm the vig, it doesn't seem to be working for me, but it's nice to see you starting to say it.

And why would Scum track Townies who claimed to him? To make sure they weren't lying about their Town roles? :hmpf:

You don't even need to bother. Either they tell you what they're doing, or if you're not sure you can track them to maintain your cover. If you shapeshifted me you'd assume I killed Lambi (and you'd know I was town) and you'd also see that Lambi would be a poor choice for a serial killer, so it would be easy to assume I was the vig and that I killed Lambi. A little bit of careful questioning ("So what do you think happened last night Petrus?") and it all becomes clear to you. Same with the shapeshifter role.

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No, the assumption for any normal person who tracks someone killing scum on night one is that they're the vig.

Hey! :angry: Who are you calling normal? :tongue: That would be a really stupid assumption to make, anyway. Remember that game you helped me through where I was the Serial Killer? I killed Scum. Serial Killers kill anyone. Anyone who plays Mafia would know that.

Later, when I call out Mist, and lead the vote on Jarl (who you defended against Cranebeinn),

Then came back and unvoted Cranebeinn and asked people to choose between Jarl and whoever the hell else and I voted for Jarl and a bunch of people followed and he was lynched. Yes I remember. Way to try to change history.

I'm lost in a hell of quotes and responses. :wacko::ugh:

Yup, you had me killing who you wanted anyway, and you could direct the lynch, so after Tarben died there wasn't much need until last night when it was convenient to kill Cranebeinn and frame me. You kept me around to continue the night kills that you guided us towards, and just in case things got sticky and you needed another kill yourself (or yourselves, as was the case a few nights ago).

The Town block and I discussed all targets and as I said last time I was being accused, and neither Cranebeinn or Canute denied it, they changed my mind on several targets. We've already established how you and I discussed targets and did I want you to kill Danr? When else did I "have" you kill anyone? :laugh:

This insistence. Here.

But I'm not insisting on anything. I'm looking into our conversation and finding potential discrepancies. I said I believe it could be either. It is possible for you to have discerned Danr was the investigator and it is possible you thought I was Scum hiding a teammate. The Serial Killer needs to find both sides. The fact that you're trying to say I'm insisting on that is what is truly ... Serial–Killer–y.

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What logic? You've just pulled it out of your poo-pipe with zero evidence.

You like that word then?

And the logic is that I have considered everything that's been said and done over the course of the game, and I think you're scum and she's town. Ta dah.

It's completely illogical as I am Town and I am the Tracker. I might've mentioned that before.

Yeah, that still doesn't seem to be working for me.

I think that Cranebeinn was killed by...wait for it...the killer, which is you. Serial Killer not vig. :def_shrug: By your logic, Agnar is just as likely to be the killer. :wacko: Yet, you stick to your theory despite all logic and without any evidence.

And I think that Cranebeinn was killed by...wait for it...the other killer, which isn't me, but is most likely you.

What evidence would you like? A tracking result? :laugh:

Did I? I weighed my options and decided that the killer did the killing. :wacko: Agnar having an Action goes against the results of my Action which is the only thing I can fully trust. I'd really hate it if he's Scum and you and I are Town accusing each other endlessly. :hmpf:

And I weighed my options and determined that it was more likely you are scum than Agnar.

No. Two pages earlier. Not that it matters but it was before that conversation, right?

No, it was two pages after you mentioned Tammo had contacted you. Yes it was before that conversation, but there was yet another page in between. You're expecting me to be psychic, and sadly I'm not.

And here's what the code was. I had been telling Canute about my suspicions over whether you were the vig or Serial Killer. He needed to know your identity in case I was killed. But I wasn't comfortable with that at the time. So I told him if I was killed to go to you and the number you gave him would be the number of the person in the list of players in the confirmation thread who was the vig. You. And then if you gave him the other number, it would be Agnar, the bomb. So if you didn't trust Pie you'd tell him that Agnar was the vig. Yes, I forgot you could just kill him if you didn't trust him. :laugh: I told Agnar the same code, hoping to connect the three of you if I died. Canute and Danr both knew who the blocker was.

As I said to a lot of the things you came up with: needlessly convoluted.

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