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Ragnarök Now 3: Day Nine

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Protecting Toki makes no sense to me, no matter what the case is. You say you switched your viewpoint to believing I was Town but still protected Toki because you thought I was Scum. :wacko:

No I didn't. I protected Toki because I thought that you would've had the SK kill Toki before we could see if Petr was scum or not.

As for the number of night without a kill, I think two of the nights were to convert you and two of them were to convert Toki.

"Hey guys, thanks for converting me, despite having the names of the blocker and tracker and most recently the vig, let's convert Toki."

"Let's not go back to our kill now that there's no protector and kill the blocker, let's convert Toki. :thumbup: "

"Boy oh boy, I know it'd sure be great not having a tracker potentially screw us over, let's convert Toki. :sweet: "

"Let's not convert the vig, we don't want to have two kills, that'd just be unfair! Let's convert Toki." :laugh:

I think they can only convert vanillas and they've been using that fact to try and find the PRs for when they get their kill back after they successfully convert someone.

*A vanilla.

Has any game with a non-cult scum team had multiple conversions?

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No I didn't. I protected Toki because I thought that you would've had the SK kill Toki before we could see if Petr was scum or not.

Cranebeinn told you the "SK" would be blocked. And what would killing Toki gain for Scum–me?

When I first mentioned Toki to you as a protection target you didn't even remember that he had to be Town according to your theory. :sceptic:

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Cranebeinn told you the "SK" would be blocked. And what would killing Toki gain for Scum–me?

Did you read what I was just said?? I was not totally convinced you were scum anymore at that point, I think you were willing to have Toki immediately night-killed because if you were telling the truth then you'd probably be so convinced that Petr was scum that you'd be certain Toki would too.

I wasn't as sure, I figured if there was any chance of the game continuing should Petr turn up town I had to try and prevent the likeliest night kill. There was no way Crane was getting targeted, nobody would take that kind of risk, especially because he was the obvious protection target, as I indicated yesterday...

When I first mentioned Toki to you as a protection target you didn't even remember that he had to be Town according to your theory. :sceptic:

...by saying this.

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Either way, I don't think my death will matter much assuming Toki is in fact the last scum.

But if there is a scum or an SK in the block, you'll know it when things devolve into three-way free for all, and a protector probably won't matter much then. :laugh:

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What the hell did Petr do to Toki? :look:

I don't know. :cry_sad: It's been the talk everywhere and I still don't know what the heck he tried to do to me.

I also don't know how to feel about this Canute/Pudding-Head ordeal from yesterday. Canute's general theory has been proven wrong, with Petr turning up corrupted, and I'm not sure what Canute is trying to do by continuing that discussion despite admitting that he's wrong, and from what it seems, thinks of Pudding-Head as town now. Or am I misinterpreting it all? :wacko:

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I'm not continuing the discussion, I'm defending myself. I don't see why I would've bothered converting you if I was scum, you were the most obvious lynch choice going into today. In either case, you're our best lead right now. Sorry if you haven't actually been converted, but we don't really know what else to think right now.

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It was very nice of you to protect him last night to lynch him today. :thumbup:

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Did you read what I was just said?? I was not totally convinced you were scum anymore at that point, I think you were willing to have Toki immediately night-killed because if you were telling the truth then you'd probably be so convinced that Petr was scum that you'd be certain Toki would too.

I wasn't as sure, I figured if there was any chance of the game continuing should Petr turn up town I had to try and prevent the likeliest night kill. There was no way Crane was getting targeted, nobody would take that kind of risk, especially because he was the obvious protection target, as I indicated yesterday...

Oh, wow. I totally misunderstood what you said here at first. But now, I see it. You protected Toki from Town me? Even believing I was telling the truth at that point? Even with your vote on me at the end of the day?

Wow, just .... wow. :wacko: Amazing. You saved him from me and the "...SK..." (who is apparently at my beck and call) so we could lynch him today when what you suspected to be true ... came to be true.

So... :wall: ... what would that have accomplished...if I ...well, wait, if you thought...but then...and...

What?? *huh*:ugh: :cannon:

Guys, is this going to be one of those times where I find someone ludicrously Scummy and everyone else is like "Meh..."?

And there's way too much WIFOM involved in if you were going to protect Cranebeinn or Toki and for megabluck's sake, if we were really what ever crazy concoction you thought we were, we probably would've targeted you.

I don't believe you would risk losing the blocker like that. I don't believe it at all. I can't figure out what you guys are doing but I think you and Toki are both Scum.

Sorry, I promise not to repeat myself endlessly again today. I just read that closely enough to really see it. I don't even know what I thought it said before but, carry on. Whatever.

SOrry, one more thing. I trusted you at the beginning of the game because we had such logical talks and you were good to bounce things off of. But everything you've said for the last two days is...well...completely bonkers. I realize that if you're Town I'm being somewhat insulting so I'm sorry if that's the case. But if you are Town, I'd like to propose that we coin the term "Pienapses". They're like synapses, but they're in your brain so they're bonkers.

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Maybe I was just expecting to sweep up the scum too easily. :def_shrug: We were doing great at first then we inexplicably started getting nowhere and I tried looking for an explanation.

We probably should've been more careful before deciding to kill someone, but I guess hindsight is 20/20 there.

It was very nice of you to protect him last night to lynch him today. :thumbup:

That my logic behind leaving Petr alive. I figured we needed to space out our kills but it seems like you think every moment we waste is another moment the scum have to gain an advantage because they haven't been killing.

I wonder if they're actually just not doing anything and waiting around for us to kill eachother. You laughed it yesterday, but like it not, if that is the case, it's working. :laugh:

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Ah, shit. I can't stop.

Another thing, you said today "Oh, garsh. I sure was wrong about Petr." Were you??? Because I don't remember you ever forming an opinion on Petr despite me asking repeatedly. And if you were leaning for me as Town, where does the "Oh garsh! Shuckeroo!" come from? Did you ever even talk to Petr? As far as I can tell you thought nothing about him and you wouldn't even tell me what you thought of his defense. You were all dodgy about it. "Why would I humor that? Of course he's Scum if you're telling the truth but you're not. Blah blah blah, (Pienapsyes misfiring.)"

Also, why wouldn't you tell Cranebeinn who you were going to protect before the Night phase? He's the only person in any of your theories that remained Town. He should be the person you trust most, why didn't you tell him? Why did you dodge that question too?

I wonder if they're actually just not doing anything and waiting around for us to kill eachother. You laughed it yesterday, but like it not, if that is the case, it's working. :laugh:

I didn't laugh at anything. And I haven't been advocating for vig kills every night. I think if the Scum are holding off on their kill, it's your idea and you wanted to get me lynched so you applied the actual tactic to me, hypothetically. When I discussed things with the Petrus and Cranebeinn last night, I advised not to kill then too.

Furthermore, someone was blocked last night so the Scum team might've been back to killing. Also Toki was protected. Maybe Agnar tried to kill him? How do you know that Petrus didn't try to kill Toki?

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What opinion were you expecting? If he came up scum then you were town, if he came up town then you were scum. Mafia is rarely binary like that but he was going to die one way or the either (the idea of lynching you was quickly shot down so I was trying to be realistic about what kind of solution we could come up with), I wouldn't've bothered trying to stop that even if I could've (I tried to delay it to night so that we wouldn't end up with two kills, looks like that wasn't necessary anyway) since we needed an answer.

Hell, what defense are you even talking about?? His defense was "Pudding-Head is lying". You knew my opinion on that statement at the time. I had no idea what you even wanted from me. I still don't. Either his 'defense', if you can call it that, was right or wrong, and there was no way we could know one way or the other until one of you was dead.

I've never told any of you who I was protecting beforehand. I told Crane if you were concerned about my actions you could track me. And you did! And apparently that's only fueled your suspicions against me, so what would him reporting back to you "he's protecting Toki" have changed? Why would you need me protecting anyone else? What difference does it make if you think you have the only person who's actively killing anyone under control?

I guess I should've expected you'd come up with something like "now that Petr's primed Toki for conversion, of course now Canute's targeted him to activate the damn thing." If I was scum, what would converting Toki have even accomplished? Assuming I'm scum, of course I know the game is going into the next day since I'm still alive, so obviously Toki is going to get IMMEDIATELY lynched for being targeted by Petr.

I know you're suspicious of me and you're going to night-kill me, but can we at least come up with some more realistic scenarios for what the scum could be doing? :wacko:

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Any opinion really. You never seemed to have one. That would certainly advise your theory on me. And his defense was really Scummy. And he was lying about not being around.

Knowing you planned to protect Toki would've quieted my suspicions when I found out you did. And again, what makes you think he wasn't targeted for a kill last night?

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You did find out. You tracked me. I told Cranebeinn I protected him earlier. I mentioned it today without even having known you tracked me.

Crane asked for my opinion on who to block between you and Petrus. I advised he block Petrus. You obviously weren't blocked and I know I wasn't, so I'm assuming he took my advice.

If not, then, well, my entire reason for protecting Toki has been completely validated, slowing down our killing spree so the scum or SK can't pull something out of their hats because there's a handful of townies left.

The less people that know who's being protected before it happens, the better. I've protected you like five times. So if I don't get the chance to tell you before you have me killed, you're welcome. :laugh:

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So, does that mean you think Toki is a townie?

And in this case, it couldn't have hurt of one person, the person you trust most, knew who you planned to protect.

What if, for whatever reason, the Scums only weapon is to weapon use a player? They target TK and he becomes a bomb. It would explain why Dave wondered out loud why Toki wasn't dead.

I think I'm onto something.

It would explain why there's been no kill and why everyone is targeting Toki for no effect. Maybe the Scum can choose that over a regular night kill and have been using it hoping to take Petrus and Toki out. Then they could switch back to normal kill mode.

That would explain why Canute knew all the PRs but could be Scum without us all being dead

But Canute wanted to block Petrus on the night he was targeting TK. :sceptic:

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No, now that I know Petr was scum.

I suppose not, but I still don't see what would be different. The order of 'who's being killed next' probably hasn't drastically changed since yesterday.

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But I didn't tell him who the target was.

Also, it would explain why we have a vengeful and a bomb.

Hell, if I'm wrong I think I'll use the idea in one of my games at some point.

So, Canute "weaponized" Toki as he was the most likely vig target. And that's what Petr was doing too.

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What if, for whatever reason, the Scums only weapon is to weapon use a player? They target TK and he becomes a bomb. It would explain why Dave wondered out loud why Toki wasn't dead.

I think I'm onto something.

It would explain why there's been no kill and why everyone is targeting Toki for no effect. Maybe the Scum can choose that over a regular night kill and have been using it hoping to take Petrus and Toki out. Then they could switch back to normal kill mode.

That would explain why Canute knew all the PRs but could be Scum without us all being dead

But Canute wanted to block Petrus on the night he was targeting TK. :sceptic:

...What? :wacko:

So rather than kill, the scum have spent six days creating bombs. Bombs that can only be detonated by exactly one role.

And somehow we haven't hit any of them?

So, Canute "weaponized" Toki as he was the most likely vig target. And that's what Petr was doing too.

And then asked Crane to make sure Petrus was blocked? :facepalm:

Then why would he need to be targeted twice? It takes two nights to arm a role that is inferior in nearly every way to a kill?

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What if, for whatever reason, the Scums only weapon is to weapon use a player? They target TK and he becomes a bomb. It would explain why Dave wondered out loud why Toki wasn't dead.

I think I'm onto something.

So the scum team's only factional kill is to create dirty bombs that can only be triggered by the vigilante? How does that explain the first couple nights where there were two kills? The scum have both a factional kill and the ability to weaponize players? Wouldn't that be heinously overpowered, not to mention unprecedented and rather convoluted?

If that truly is the explanation, which I guess we'll only know for sure when the game is over, then I'll be more annoyed than anything else. For the time being, I think it's more likely than not that the scum have been trying and failing to convert people. I'm assuming that there have been a maximum of two scum alive over the course of the past three or so days. With numbers at such a dire low, I think it would be far more important for them to try and recruit new members than it would be to try and kill townies, some of whom may have been potential targets for recruitment.

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And then asked Crane to make sure Petrus was blocked? :facepalm:

Facepalm yourself, ya dick. I'm trying to brainstorm to figure this out. I'd hate to come up with fucktard theories that don't pan out to be true.

middle-finger-smiley.png

Then why would he need to be targeted twice? It takes two nights to arm a role that is inferior in nearly every way to a kill?

Maybe it only works on the night he's targeted. It would keep the person doing the killing from being able to be tracked. TPRU likes to make new roles, Loki is the God of Mischief. Both times I was Scum there was a prankster role, one of which had no effect, just showed the Scum targeting. Maybe he made a booby-trap role in this one. That's a prankster thing. I like the idea. Def mentioned playing a game on another site like that but it was a shared action game and the action was booby trapped. The Scum got to booby trap one action each night.

So the scum team's only factional kill is to create dirty bombs that can only be triggered by the vigilante? How does that explain the first couple nights where there were two kills? The scum have both a factional kill and the ability to weaponize players? Wouldn't that be heinously overpowered, not to mention unprecedented and rather convoluted?

The Bobsy Twins are at me again. :hmpf_bad: I said they could choose. Read what I'm rambling about.

I didn't say it was a good theory. :look: Wait, no. I did say it was a good theory. But it doesn't mean it has to be true. Calm down, people. I'm brainstorming trying to figure out why there's been no kill from the Scum and why everybody likes to target Toki, the dead weight player. It kind of explains everything and you can both blow your cynicism and derision out your Pie–holes! :cry_sad: I'm just trying to help.

:tongue: Jerks.

(not really jerks. I'm only kind of kidding. :grin:)

:hmpf_bad:

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Maybe it only works on the night he's targeted. It would keep the person doing the killing from being able to be tracked.

Except they would still be tracked targeting the guy that gets killed. :laugh:

I'm still thinking they had a conversion but it only works on vanillas and they have been hitting PRs trying to get a more experienced player.

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Except they would still be tracked targeting the guy that gets killed. :laugh:

But they would have targeted the bomb only. :laugh: I don't know. It sounded smart when it was vomiting out of my brain... :blush:

I'm still thinking they had a conversion but it only works on vanillas and they have been hitting PRs trying to get a more experienced player.

Well, then why did you convert Toki when you knew who all the PRs were? :blush:

Honestly, what I thought here, and don't facepalm me, :laugh: Was that maybe Dave half converted Toki and then brought you in and you were like "WTF? I hate this Scum team. Why did you convert me? I have having fun as Town!" and then when Dave got caught, you were stuck with Toki... :look: I'm running through possibilities, OK? When have you ever seen Scum not kill for five days in a row (six altogether)? I'm trying to be clever. Maybe I'm failing but I'm trying, OK? :tongue:

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It just seems spectacularly unlikely. There's exactly one person these bombs can be killing. Two if you count the scum forgetting and then killing their own bomb. Three if you count that and think Petrus is an SK. But there's no way that would replace their regular kill.

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It makes more sense than me lying about tracking Petr and teaming up with the Serial Killer. Well, that never made sense to me because I knew I was telling the truth but it still pings me that you were adamant that you were right.

If not, then, well, my entire reason for protecting Toki has been completely validated, slowing down our killing spree so the scum or SK can't pull something out of their hats because there's a handful of townies left.

No, now that I know Petr was scum.

I suppose not, but I still don't see what would be different. The order of 'who's being killed next' probably hasn't drastically changed since yesterday.

These two quotes together ping me. I can't pinpoint why... :sceptic:

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The idea of a bus driver works in place of weaponizing a player. If they are trying to take any action directed at Toki... then aim it at someone else. So they think that Toki is being killed and the kill goes to somebody else and then they can say "Petrus killed the blocker!" Or whatever. Maybe that's why Dave targeted Toki. That would mean Dave and Toki were both Scum. For Canute to have used the action the same way, he and Dave and Toki would all have to be Scum and he'd have to be counting on Cranebeinn not telling him the truth about who was targeted.

It's a great way to cause confusion. We would lynch the vig in that case. And then we'd be all freaked out as to how it had happened when the vig flipped Town.

Is this idea stupid too? :hmpf_bad:

Then that would explain why they haven't been killing. Canute wants us to believe our vig is the SK so he's trying to aim her kill from Toki to someone else and then everyone will think she's the SK and all the Scum are dead already and lynch her and then they'll kill someone and we'd be like "*huh* Wuuuuuuuuuuut??"

:sceptic: I should get some sleep...

Canute even said the night Danr was killed, I told him three other targets and there was no Scum kill that night.

What did that blabby Scum say to me on the writeboard. My misleading comments got their kill blocked... I wonder what I said to Canute that night.

Were we going to kill Toki before we switched it to Lauga?

Would they have guessed Lambi would've been the target of the vig on Night One?

What if they get a kill only when the guess the vig's target.

:wacko: WTF am I talking about now? *huh*

Dagstyr!! They knew we were going to kill him because they manipulated us into it.

What if they have some role that they can mimic...our vig...if they guess his target? :wacko:

GOd, I'm really grasping at straws here.

But it would make sense (even though it would be aggravating for the Scum and I don't think a host would do that... :def_shrug:) as to why we haven't seen kills and why Toki keeps getting targeted and why Petr said "Why didn't the vig kill Toki?"

What happened in Ragnarok 2. Somebody had to guess who the vig was killing or who the Scum would kill? That's a thing, right? That happened.

Aaargh, they didn't kill the night Dagstyrr died. But Munud would've been a great guess.

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