Ragnarök Now 3: Day Eight

[MagPiesRUs]

There's a math problem here...

Vote Count

Pudding-Head (Hinckley): 1 vote (CallMePie)

Petr Half-Troll (Piratedave84): 1 vote (Hinckley)

No Vote: 5 (Chromeknight, Pandora, TrumpetKing, Adam, Piratedave)

With 7 players remaining, 4 votes are required to lynch. 23 hours, 50 minutes remain in the day.

[Hinckley]

First of all, that's not the opposite of what he's saying. Second of all, I'm under no obligation to agree with him totally, or even to agree with him at all. Third of all, if the vigilante gets blocked, then I don't see how you manage to kill enough people to win the game tonight.

OK. But I can't megablocking kill people anyway. Because I'm not Scum. If it's all the same to you then, let's block the vig, lynch Petr. You might want me to realize you have concerns but do my Actions contradicts facts you've received from the host? My concern is one or both of you seem to want Dave to get to the Night phase again to use whatever the hell Action he used on Toki again. I don't know what it is but I would feel better if he wasn't given the opportunity to use it again.

I only trust one person. Myself. But after that, the blocker is probably the person I trust the most. Do you just pull random things from posts and use them for baseless accusations? In how many different directions to you plan to point your finger before the day is done?

It's not random. You said you needed the blocker fully on board. As I type that out I realize that could mean he wouldn't agree to the plan. I took it at first to me that he might not really be the blocker or also be Scum and not block who he said he would. But now I've talked myself through that one. Either way, I've pointed my finger at everyone multiple times throughout the game trying to figure out who the Scum are and I'm not going to stop and I'm not sorry for it. You don't learn things without poking people.

Finally, Toki is here. I guess we only need to wait four hours while he reads me and Canute repeating ourselves for 3 pages...

And Cranebeinn, you know a lot of what went on and you're doing all of your talking behind the scenes. It'd be nice to hear what your thoughts are on everything.

[CMP]

And Cranebeinn, you know a lot of what went on and you're doing all of your talking behind the scenes. It'd be nice to hear what your thoughts are on everything.

That reminds me, what was with you PMing him that I was suspicious and then PMing me that he was suspicious?

[Hinckley]

That reminds me, what was with you PMing him that I was suspicious and then PMing me that he was suspicious?

I did not send him a PM that you were suspicious. He sent it to me first. I had considered contacting him before he contacted me because...why was that...oh, right! You wanted to kill the vig after I gave you a result on Petr. After a weak thought that Petr had a role but didn't trust us. Two subsequent Scummy things that made us both suspicious. Is he telling you I PMed him?? Because that would not be a representation of the truth.

Why did I PM you about trusting him? Hmmmm...maybe to discuss his behavior. Maybe to gauge more about your weird reactions. Any number of reasons. Just trying to figure people out. Are these more reasons I'm Scum?

According to him, you PMed him about me before he even contacted me about you? So megablocking what? We're doing what Townies should do. Question why they trust who they trust.

That guest is reading this topic again...

[TrumpetKing]

I came back to a novel.

Did I get targeted by Petr last night? I've only heard it approximately 20 times, 2 or 3 of which have been in private, and I have already disclosed with both people who have informed me, that if Petr did target me, I had no idea, and wasn't informed of the sort by anybody other than the two who messaged me.

While I don't like how Petr has lied to you, Pudding-Head, I do think Canute's thoughts are valid, and a concern I have shared recently myself. It's no surprise that I suspected you early on, and that did fade for a while, but when we dwindle down to just the seven of us, it can't help but to start seeming fishy when the scum haven't killed in days and you come through unscathed, leading us through each lynch. You've certainly led us to the lynches of several scum, which is greatly appreciated, but the lack of experience from them appears as if it could have tumbled down, with you seemingly volunteering them. However, I don't necessarily think that's the case. I'm not sure that I quite believe that you would just voluntarily give up your team at the rate the scum have been going, but at the rate that we've been losing townies following Dar's lynch, it is becoming more and more of a plausible thought. Canute also brings up the valid point of you being one of the first to bring up the traitor, and if I recall, as soon as people began talking about it more openly, you said that there wasn't a traitor, and that it was a major misunderstanding, almost at the snap of a finger. Something here doesn't sit right with me from both you and Petr.

As for Petr, I don't understand why he would lie about being vanilla. It makes absolutely no sense to me, especially if he trusted you enough to let you proxy vote for him. He obviously has disappeared, and probably won't speak for the matter, but I do hope he shows up to give his side so we can make a decision on whether we lynch or not before night falls.

[CMP]

As for Petr, I don't understand why he would lie about being vanilla. It makes absolutely no sense to me, especially if he trusted you enough to let you proxy vote for him. He obviously has disappeared, and probably won't speak for the matter, but I do hope he shows up to give his side so we can make a decision on whether we lynch or not before night falls.

If my concerns about Pudding-Head end up being justified, then there's your answer.

It would be pretty great if he did show up.

[Hinckley]

leading us through each lynch.

Explain to me how I led the last two lynches. I voted for you and said I would switch to Ragnvald if we needed to get a lynch. As I stated, the town block thought lynching Ragnvald would get us the most information so I switched. It was Canute and Cranebeinn I was agreeing with when I switched my vote. I thought my gambit with the Scum on the writeboard wouldn't have gone the way it did if Tarr was Scum. But Canute thinks I'm putting too much into what was said on those boards and Cranebeinn agreed with him. So, explain to me what you mean when you say I led each lynch.

For the amount of discussion that went into Night Actions and lynches, it's ridiculous to look back and say "Look what Pudding–Head made us do!"

Is there permanently a guest reading this thread??

Now, it's two guests.

[Chromeknight]

Ok.

And Cranebeinn, you know a lot of what went on and you're doing all of your talking behind the scenes. It'd be nice to hear what your thoughts are on everything.

Yeah, sorry about not talking out loud. A lot of solving this is working out who knew what when so we can spot the dark channel of information. The scum have to lie. And then they have to lie about lying. And then lie about that. It adds up and can be spotted.

Frankly though. I'm surprised to still be here. I assumed I'd be killed night 2. I wasn't. Whether that was the blocker, the doc or something else will have to wait until the afterlife.

Excluding Adamar, ToKing and PetrDave (sorry guys). For all of us to be here yet have one (or two) of us playing false, someone must've taken a swing to cut out the complications and had it miss. That's what CMPutes theory relies on. That's what I'm hunting down.

One question for the thread.

Why block the vig tonight? Why?

The only reason to do it is thinking the vig is really the SK, so come out and say that. And if the scum do kill they'll definitely kill a townie but there'll be guff about whether it was the vig (and claimed blocker) lying ((lynch them!)) or whether it was actually the scum. Nah. It's a low percentage move to do it, we gotta sort the lynch out.

Which leads to the second question. ToKing. Vote. for PDave. Anything else makes you look suspicious and frankly your delay in doing it does too.

[Hinckley]

Why block the vig tonight? Why?

My suggestion to block the vig is to assuage Agnar's fear that we have the potential of losing three Townies (or four) if we lynch Petr. If people are afraid that was Crazy–Canute is saying about the vig and I slaughtering everyone at night then blocking the vig should make everyone feel confident that we won't lose anyone tonight.

[Adam]

My goal is simply to leave as few townie hats on the ground as possible. If we block and night kill Petr, that leaves the bodycount at one and gives us a lot of information at little cost. If we lynch him and block the vigilante, that also leaves the bodycount at one but gives us a lot less information. My motivation here is to help assuage Canute's own, rather valid, concerns and prevent the possibility of some kind of "execute Order 66" type of thing. Like I said, I'm inclined to believe that Pudding Head is town, I just don't trust him blindly and I think that Canute has voiced a number of reasonable doubts. In his post above, Pudding Head more or less gets the basics of the idea.

I've tried to make it clear that I don't want to be difficult, just cautious. I want to learn Petr's allegiance. However, I would like to do this in a way that keeps as many townies alive as possible while simultaneously giving us the most information possible.

[Hinckley]

Without the vig on board at this point, the best bet is to lynch Petr and block the vig at night. It's the same as having no lynch and blocking and killing Petr. I don't understand the resistance to lynching today. I don't trust it. Even if we just agree to have the blocker target Petr tonight we have no guarantee that the Scum won't be able to kill one of us. But you seem to think they don't have a kill ability at all. You think if we kill and block Petr, there will be no other deaths? How can you be sure of that? We have no idea why they haven't been killing, I doubt there were only four, so we can't assume they won't kill one of us tonight. I don't know how close the numbers are. I doubt that it's 4 to 3 right now but I don't like the resistance to losing Petr. If one of the people pushing for this is Scum and I happen to know one has made a very Scummy claim, what could they need Petr alive tonight for? I do not trust any of this.

Wouldn't it be telling if Petr came up as Scum and we had a voting pattern to look at today? Cranebeinn has already expressed concern in Toki's lack of a vote.

[Piratedave84]

I'm back, sort of, still have 3 hours to drive.

I didn't read everything yet but I have to say I'm vanilla.

I'm pissed that Pydding would use my absence to mount a BS case against me like this. There's only 2 possibilities here; the tracker is lying or pudding is lying.

[Hinckley]

I am the tracker. And I'm not lying. I'm very happy you're back, Scum.

[CMP]

There's only 2 possibilities here; the tracker is lying or pudding is lying.

That is logic that I can agree with.

Without the vig on board at this point, the best bet is to lynch Petr and block the vig at night. It's the same as having no lynch and blocking and killing Petr. I don't understand the resistance to lynching today. I don't trust it. Even if we just agree to have the blocker target Petr tonight we have no guarantee that the Scum won't be able to kill one of us. But you seem to think they don't have a kill ability at all. You think if we kill and block Petr, there will be no other deaths? How can you be sure of that? We have no idea why they haven't been killing, I doubt there were only four, so we can't assume they won't kill one of us tonight. I don't know how close the numbers are. I doubt that it's 4 to 3 right now but I don't like the resistance to losing Petr. If one of the people pushing for this is Scum and I happen to know one has made a very Scummy claim, what could they need Petr alive tonight for? I do not trust any of this.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. When did the vig get "off board"? The entire purpose of me pushing for the vig's lynch was to see A. how bad you wanted Petr lynch and B. how much you seemed to trust your vig when push came to shove and we weren't just idly discussing taking the vig out. Has something changed?

Pudding-Head, my theory assumes you have a scumkill ready to go at any time, if we have Petr killed by the vig then that's going to alleviate my concerns. That's how it's different than Petr being lynched now.

[Hinckley]

Because the vig hasn't spoken to anybody. So what makes you think he is on board?

And why is Canute suddenly the authority on everything. I caught him targeting Cranebeinn on Night Two and he claimed, immediately without any caution, to be the protector. Wouldn't Cranebeinn have made an excellent framing target that night? I have thought Canute to be Town this whole time and trusted him almost more than anybody else but let's look at the things he has done. He never discussed his targets with the Town block. He has twice tried to get the vig/SK lynched, even today when I have a result on Petr. He is way too confident in his baseless theory on me. His theory is only based on me being Scum in a previous game: not a reason. I have evidence that Petr has lied and Canute is trying to get my lynched instead of Petr. Those of you blindly following Canute should look more closely at him before moving forward with any plan. I'm not sure about anything but that Petr is lying and that makes him Scum. But I'm feeling more and more suspicious of Canute's behavior and since he seems to have the audience of Cranebeinn and Agnar, it's a concern that you guys don't seem to be questioning him at all.

Protector is a very convenient claim for Scum to make and we've seen Scum claim it before.

There's no way Scum would win tonight if Cranebeinn's theory is correct. If Petr is Scum, which I'm sure he is, and you lynch him and see what he flips, what would that make you think of Canute?

Pudding-Head, my theory assumes you have a scumkill ready to go at any time, if we have Petr killed by the vig then that's going to alleviate my concerns. That's how it's different than Petr being lynched now.

This makes zero sense to me. How does Petr being killed by the vig, who you were ready to lynch...twice now...alleviate your concerns of me having a kill? Explain to me how that works.

And if you think the vig, who you also think is the SK, is on board with you, just ask him not to kill anyone and have me blocked. Whatever. Petr is lying. Cranebeinn's concern was that I didn't tell you before he had claimed vanilla to me. Now you see he claims vanilla. That's a lie. He targeted Toki.

Resisting a lynch is confounding! Lynch the liar. Why wait for a night kill? Why would anyone let you wait for a night kill and get a player with an Action who lied about having that Action another opportunity to use it? What if Canute has been sitting on the Scum kill and is waiting to use it tonight and having the vig kill Petr and him kill someone else sways the numbers in the favor of the Scum? Not lynching makes zero sense.

I have a result. We should be testing it now with lynching. That way we know Petr's alignment, you can be damn well sure of my alignment and we'd have a voting pattern.

That is how things should work, in my opinion. I don't see how it's different than waiting for the night phase. Zero sense. Zero sense. Lauga's ducked role makes more sense than waiting to kill Petr at night. :wacko: *huh* *huh*

[CMP]

Holy crap Pudding-Head, make up your mind, are you accusing me of scum or not?

Of course I didn't discuss my targets with you, not only was it completely unnecessary (I never even intended to claim to you until you tracked me), I've been protecting you and Cranbeinn for literally the entire game.

His theory is only based on me being Scum in a previous game: not a reason.

Do we need another three pages of me repeating myself? Go back and re-read.

I'm not even sure I see the point in arguing with you because now you can't decide if I'm acting scummy or not and, though I was outright exaggerating on this earlier, you actually so seem to be in a rabid freaking blood haze with lynching Petr today. Other people have offered completely valid alternatives and you are just having none of it. I'm getting tired of it.

Those of you blindly following Canute should look more closely at him before moving forward with any plan.

Nobody is blindly following me. Cranebeinn and I shared our suspicious in PM before all this. Agnar thinks you're freaking townie for god's sake and is offering alternatives that end with Petr's death and nobody else's. But no. You have to lynch Petr today, because you HAVE to win the game tonight, because you pulled your tracker 'result' from thin air and we'll know you're lying if we get to chance to see his allegiance.

Protector is a very convenient claim for Scum to make and we've seen Scum claim it before.

So is tracker. That is literally the first thing you told me in regards to the tracker. It's a scummy claim.

There's no way Scum would win tonight if Cranebeinn's theory is correct. If Petr is Scum, which I'm sure he is, and you lynch him and see what he flips, what would that make you think of Canute?

Quit offering us these garbage hypotheticals. If we lynch him the game ends tonight.

You can't even determine what you think about me, Pudding-Head. Are you freaking accusing me or not?

This makes zero sense to me. How does Petr being killed by the vig, who you were ready to lynch...twice now...alleviate your concerns of me having a kill? Explain to me how that works.

If Petr gets vig-killed instead of lynched today, you can't win the game if you're scum. That's why.

And if you think the vig, who you also think is the SK, is on board with you, just ask him not to kill anyone and have me blocked. Whatever. Petr is lying. Cranebeinn's concern was that I didn't tell you before he had claimed vanilla to me. Now you see he claims vanilla. That's a lie. He targeted Toki.

I don't. You're scum and you're allied with the SK, why would I ever think the vig is on board with me?? You're whining about me wanting to lynch the vig twice now (you've stated this repeatedly IN THIS VERY POST) and yet you think the vig is on board with me??

What if Canute has been sitting on the Scum kill and is waiting to use it tonight and having the vig kill Petr and him kill someone else sways the numbers in the favor of the Scum? Not lynching makes zero sense.

PUDDING-HEAD HAS TO THEORY AS TO THE LACK OF SCUMKILL!!!

Joy of joys, it's a freaking Ragnarok miracle.

I mean, it's a carbon copy of my theory (the one he was apparently unable to comprehend for my entire argument), but it's a theory.

Also, you do realize lynching Petr in this theory would STILL cement a scum win? (While in fact vig-killing him would not?)

Resisting a lynch is confounding! Lynch the liar. Why wait for a night kill?

You win the game if I'm right.

Why would anyone let you wait for a night kill and get a player with an Action who lied about having that Action another opportunity to use it?

You win the game if I'm right.

I have a result. We should be testing it now with lynching. That way we know Petr's alignment, you can be damn well sure of my alignment and we'd have a voting pattern.

You win the game if I'm right.

That is how things should work, in my opinion. I don't see how it's different than waiting for the night phase. Zero sense. Zero sense. Lauga's ducked role makes more sense than waiting to kill Petr at night. :wacko: *huh* *huh*

You win the game if I'm right.

Are you getting this Pudding-Head?

I mean, you can't acknowledge I'm right obviously, but refusing to see the point behind not lynching Petr is wasting everyone's time and validating the concerns about you that I have and other people are starting to share.

[Hinckley]

If Petr gets vig-killed instead of lynched today, you can't win the game if you're scum. That's why.

How would I win if I was Scum, which I'm not, and he is lynched.

And why are you off the hook? What makes you Town?

And for the last time, I refuse to stick to trusting you or not because I have no reason to trust you or not trust you so, as a Townie should, I will continue to question you and be suspicious of you.

[CMP]

How would I win if I was Scum, which I'm not, and he is lynched.

For the tenth time:

We lynch Petr. He's town.

You and the vig each kill somebody. They're town.

1 (you, scum) + 1 (vig, SK) = 2 (townie) on Day Nine.

Game over.

You didn't answer my question. I'd be deeply concerned if you trusted me at this point, the point I'm making is that you seem to be going back-and-forth on me being a 'misguided' townie and being scum.

[Hinckley]

You win the game if I'm right.

You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum.

You win the game if I'm right.

You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum.

You win the game if I'm right.

You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum.

You win the game if I'm right.

You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum.

Are you getting this Pudding-Head?

Can you explain what makes you Town that everyone should be listening to you? Your behavior the last couple of days is highly concerning. Dave is Scum. Lynching him will show that I'm right. I don't like your desperation to make it to the Night phase with him alive.

I mean, you can't acknowledge I'm right obviously, but refusing to see the point behind not lynching Petr is wasting everyone's time and validating the concerns about you that I have and other people are starting to share.

Because as many times as you explain it, it does not make any god damn sense.

For the tenth time:

We lynch Petr. He's town.

You and the vig each kill somebody. They're town.

Why aren't you blocking one of us then, you megablocks??

Lynch Petr, block me.

[CMP]

Can you explain what makes you Town that everyone should be listening to you? Your behavior the last couple of days is highly concerning. Dave is Scum. Lynching him will show that I'm right. I don't like your desperation to make it to the Night phase with him alive.

I pointed out valid concerns that you can't answer, and other people are sharing them. I don't like your desperation to get him lynched. Or your face!

Because as many times as you explain it, it does not make any god damn sense.

To you. I don't care if it makes sense to you, it hinges on your being scum. Everyone else can see there are valid concerns, and that's what matters.

Why aren't you blocking one of us then, you megablock??

Lynch Petr, block me.

Why, do you need the vig free to murder another townie?

[Hinckley]

Why, do you need the vig free to murder another townie?

One of us would be free either way. You have no answer to that. Lynching Petr and blocking me equals killing him at night. Your theory relies on their being two kills yet there's a blocker. You need Petr to survive to the night phase for some reason.

Lynch Petr, block me. Same result with what you're suggesting.

If you can't trust the vig, why are you thinking he'd do what you say anyway?

This is what makes no sense. You're contradicting yourself. And the people listening to you should realize this. You're not making any sense. Not lynching doesn't make sense.

Lynch Petr, block me. Same exact result as what you're suggesting.

Canute has posted less than 10 posts every day and then suddenly, 30 today. Desperately trying to undermine the simple fact that Petr is lying. And his theory is convoluted and his insistence on not lynching contradicts itself.

Cranebeinn and I didn't agree with his idea to lynch the vig.

Then nobody is voting along with him to get me lynched.

So now he's desperately trying to convince the two people paying attention to let Petr live to the night phase.

If he doesn't trust the vig, why does he think he'd kill Petr?

If he thinks we're both killers, why does he forget the fact that we have a blocker who he trust to be telling the truth? Blocking one of us doesn't give us the math he is coming up with.

Lynch Petr, block me or the vig. It's the same result as what Canute is suggesting except it doesn't get a know liar to another night phase.

[Pandora]

I've been doing a little cross-checking.

There are several issues here, but one will naturally stand out to me more than anyone. Everyone knows who everyone else is by now, surely?

I am the vig. I killed Lambi on night one and that same night I was tracked by Pudding (who you all already know is the tracker). After a lot of back and forth he claimed tracker to me and I claimed vig to him.

Canute's argument about Pudding seems to hinge on the idea that Pudding has revealed a false tracking result on Petr, and wants to lynch Petr, and that will result in Pudding winning the game as he will kill at night and, apparently I'm the serial killer and I'll also kill at night, so Pudding will win. The problem with that is that I'm the vig, and not the serial killer, so no such thing is going to happen.

Canute, I have heard so many times now, both in private and in the thread, that you think that I'm the serial killer. Could you at least explain your reasoning? I think this might be part of it, from what I can gather:

I killed Danr. I killed him because I thought he was scum; I had actually suspected Pudding privately, and had mentioned Danr as scummy and as a possible tracking target. Pudding never mentioned him again, however Pudding has been saying since day two to me how much he trusted Canute, so (ironically perhaps) when Canute kept calling Danr out in the thread, and I myself found Danr scummy, and it seemed like Danr might have been a possible scum teammate of Pudding's, I killed him. I fully expected him to show up as scum (and I wasn't alone in thinking he was scummy), but no he was town. And then it turns out he was the investigator. Which is kinda embarrassing, but I didn't know that until Pudding told me. And he told me in a conversation along the lines of:

Pudding: "Please tell me you didn't kill Danny"

Me: "Uhm, but I did kill Danny, I thought he was scum."

Pudding: "He was our investigator" (train of invective)

If you think I'm the serial killer for that, you're wrong, I'm the vig. Add into that that I could have denied killing Danny and said it was the scum kill.

The other reason I was given was that I was reluctant to participate in a town block PM conversation with the bomb. I made it perfectly clear that I thought that the bomb claim was a scummy claim and that I thought having them in a group PM with the town power roles, discussing what to do each night, was a bad idea.

Not once has Canute come to me to ask me about anything (like why I killed Danr, for instance) - you took everything Pudding relayed about me at face value, and he's the one you're now yelling is definitely scum. Why do you trust anything he's said about me if he's scum? Why haven't you discussed your concerns with me?

The more I've read the events of today, the less sense Canute's argument makes. This doesn't mean that Pudding isn't scum, and I've had on and off suspicions about him pretty much the whole game, but we are not at lynch or lose because I'm not the serial killer, I am the vig.

[Hinckley]

(train of invective)

Sorry.

Your full explanation of your suspicion makes me feel much better.

I'll point out again, and I know I've repeated myself a lot today. I'm concerned about Canute's illogical argument about not lynching. Anyone agreeing with him, what is the difference if we lynch the lying Petr and block me? It would not allow two kills with my SK/Scum/vig buddy, Petrus. It would give you exactly what you're saying you're getting from waiting for the night phase without letting a liar with a Night Action to have another night phase to do whatever it is he does.

Why does he think the vig he wants to lynch and can't trust be trusted to kill Petr? Does he think the SK would count towards Scum numbers?? I need to look at what he's said there...

Lynch Petr, block me.

1 (you, scum) + 1 (vig, SK) = 2 (townie) on Day Nine.

Even this, the Town still outnumbers the Scum. But if you block one of us, the math isn't right anyway. And you do have a blocker.

Lynch Petr, block me.

[CMP]

Canute, I have heard so many times now, both in private and in the thread, that you think that I'm the serial killer. Could you at least explain your reasoning? I think this might be part of it, from what I can gather:

I killed Danr. I killed him because I thought he was scum; I had actually suspected Pudding privately, and had mentioned Danr as scummy and as a possible tracking target. Pudding never mentioned him again, however Pudding has been saying since day two to me how much he trusted Canute, so (ironically perhaps) when Canute kept calling Danr out in the thread, and I myself found Danr scummy, and it seemed like Danr might have been a possible scum teammate of Pudding's, I killed him. I fully expected him to show up as scum (and I wasn't alone in thinking he was scummy), but no he was town. And then it turns out he was the investigator. Which is kinda embarrassing, but I didn't know that until Pudding told me. And he told me in a conversation along the lines of:

Pudding: "Please tell me you didn't kill Danny"

Me: "Uhm, but I did kill Danny, I thought he was scum."

Pudding: "He was our investigator" (train of invective)

If you think I'm the serial killer for that, you're wrong, I'm the vig. Add into that that I could have denied killing Danny and said it was the scum kill.

Not solely for that, no, but I'm not exaggerating when I say Pudding-Head was losing his freaking mind to me in PM over you having killed Danr. He'd been saying since the beginning you had been acting suspicious. In fact he paraphrased your entire conversation and was under the impression you were going to make a case against him, or kill him during the night.

The other reason I was given was

that I was reluctant to participate in a town block PM conversation with the bomb. I made it perfectly clear that I thought that the bomb claim was a scummy claim and that I thought having them in a group PM with the town power roles, discussing what to do each night, was a bad idea.

Pudding-Head said as much, but I still don't understand why his suspicions on you completely evaporated. You were apparently resistant to even coordinating with him after you were tracked.

We were seriously discussing getting you killed at numerous points with the bomb and outright lynching. We considered multiple scum factions and I think you were at the heart of that discussion.

Then at some point it just stopped. It continued well after we created the PM including you, but the discussion about killing you just stopped. There is literally no way to confirm you since you killed the investigator. It just seems so damn convenient and Pudding-Head wouldn't stop ranting about it. It wouldn't be that far-fetched if it was an all an act and a plot by the two of you to get rid of the only other investigative role we had.

Not once has Canute come to me to ask me about anything (like why I killed Danr, for instance) - you took everything Pudding relayed about me at face value, and he's the one you're now yelling is definitely scum. Why do you trust anything he's said about me if he's scum? Why haven't you discussed your concerns with me?

I didn't know your identity up until Night Six. What concerns could I have shared that you could've answered? "I think you're the SK and there is absolutely no way to know one way or the other until you're dead"? If you're the SK you have little choice but to be playing along, same goes for if you were the vig. You've been a complete unknown, and you still are, and I'm still not convinced you should be around.

The more I've read the events of today, the less sense Canute's argument makes. This doesn't mean that Pudding isn't scum, and I've had on and off suspicions about him pretty much the whole game, but we are not at lynch or lose because I'm not the serial killer, I am the vig.

That's all you can do is state you're the vig and not the SK. We can't even know one way or the other anymore now that our investigator is dead.

My main worry, up until the point when I began to suspect Pudding-Head, was that we somehow killed all the scum and that you are the SK.

We've been on a witch hunt and have come up with nothing. It bothers me that the LAST person to be tracked, so DANGEROUSLY close to the end of the game, just happens to have a role, and it's not even a kill.

What are we expecting to accomplish? Let's assume Pudding-Head is telling the truth. What the hell has Petr been doing? What do we do if he comes up scum and the game continues? Well, logically we would lynch TK. What happens then?

We've been too gung-ho about killing anyone we can't confirm, and now we have so few people left that I'm concerned Pudding-Head is lying and will pull something out of his pocket to win the damn thing.

It bothers me DEEPLY that we still don't know what the scum are doing.

Pudding-Head being scum and Petrus being the SK would explain a lot of this, and most importantly, THAT one big point.

All it takes is one weird scum role to somehow pull this thing off if we lynch Petr. If the block doesn't go through then that's still the game. No, I can't come up with an explanation for that, but it still bothers me.

Pudding-Head, why can't we block and kill Petr tonight? That's your one fixation above all else that gives me pause. It would give the vig credibility, and ASSUMING THE WORST, you and Petrus wouldn't be able to win the game.

Petr dies, my concerns are alleviated, he doesn't get the chance to use his action, whatever it is, if he has it.

We need to minimize casualties. Lynching him now just poses too much risk if he is townie, but it seems nobody's opposed to killing him. Surely if you're townie you can see the need to have as few opportunities for things to go wrong as possible.

[Hinckley]

Pudding-Head, why can't we block and kill Petr tonight? That's your one fixation above all else that gives me pause. It would give the vig credibility, and ASSUMING THE WORST, you and Petrus wouldn't be able to win the game.

You contradict yourself again. Why would this vig you think is on my side suddenly kill who you ask them to? Your entire plan hinges on that and yet you insist it's the way forward. You can't not trust her and have your entire plan hinge on her doing what you ask her to. Why do you want Petr to make it to the night phase?

Why can't you lynch him and then block me or Pandora? There's no difference. Why are you resisting it? Lynch Petr, block me or Petrus. Why can't you do that?

It's so odd that you're theory hinges on Petr being Town and you're still willing to kill him. Lynch him if you want him dead. It guarantees we'll see him flip. Then block one of us who you are concerned about. Then we see a voting pattern and there's no chance of Petr using his Night Action.

Furthermore, for kills, who is to say that you haven't protected the right person on the nights we didn't see a kill? Why don't you think that's possible?

That's another place your math doesn't make sense is that you have a protection action and one of you claimed bomb. So if Petrus and I wanted to kill someone, one would be blocked and one would have to guess who you protected, Cranebeinn or Toki. So, the chances of your incorrect math even being close to playing out are ridiculously slim.