Ragnarök Now 3: Day Eight

[Adam]

I can see the difference and it's one you're not acknowledging. Night-killing him gives him one more night to do whatever it is he does. Without having any idea what that is, why would you want to allow him another chance to do it?

Then go whole-hog and have him blocked, too. There, problem solved.

And hey, you can track Toki. See if he's doing anything nefarious.

[Hinckley]

And hey, you can track Toki. See if he's doing anything nefarious.

There are other options to Canute's theory. Toki could be the killer choosing not to use it.

This is making me anxious.

You still haven't explained how night-killing him as opposed to lynching him gets us a chance to talk to him. The vig can also be blocked at night you know. We could lynch Petr and then have the vig blocked. Why not do it that way? Same result, right?

Then we'd block the vig and lynch Petr. If he's town too, then we lynch the vig.

But why would you lynch Petr when you first suggested when I told you he targeted Toki (and Cranebeinn can attest to) that he had a Townie action and didn't trust me or Cranebeinn to claim to us. When we wouldn't agree to lynch the vig you've switched to not believing me at all. But if I'm Town then he is Scum, now. So what happened to your idea that he had a Townie action?

[CMP]

But why would you lynch Petr when you first suggested when I told you he targeted Toki (and Cranebeinn can attest to) that he had a Townie action and didn't trust me or Cranebeinn to claim to us. When we wouldn't agree to lynch the vig you've switched to not believing me at all. But if I'm Town then he is Scum, now. So what happened to your idea that he had a Townie action?

I was considering possibilities. Clearly trusting you was a terrible idea, so the idea that somebody didn't trust you with it isn't that out of the world. But the numbers don't lie: you clearly intend on winning tonight since you won't budge on anything that isn't lynching Petr, so it makes perfect sense that you lied. You know you can't keep the charade much longer, so your game depends on him getting lynched and you winning before the blame can fall on your shoulders.

[Hinckley]

I was considering possibilities. Clearly trusting you was a terrible idea, so the idea that somebody didn't trust you with it isn't that out of the world. But the numbers don't lie: you clearly intend on winning tonight since you won't budge on anything that isn't lynching Petr, so it makes perfect sense that you lied. You know you can't keep the charade much longer, so your game depends on him getting lynched and you winning before the blame can fall on your shoulders.

Since Petr didn't something that none of us could wrap our mind around what it would be, we should all be afraid of him being able to use it again.

And your immediate suggestion was that he didn't trust us to claim to us. Now you're not even considering that if I'm Town, he's Town too. Why the change of heart?

you clearly intend on winning tonight since you won't budge on anything that isn't lynching Petr,

I can't kill anyone with my tracking action and I will not vote for anyone but Petr, since–as I've mentioned–I saw him targeting Toki after he told me he didn't have an Action. Why would I vote for anyone else knowing what I know? Imagine you were me and Petr told you he was vanilla and then you saw him target someone, what would you do? Lynch the vig? I'm seriously asking, though, what would you do if those were your circumstances?

[CMP]

And your immediate suggestion was that he didn't trust us to claim to us. Now you're not even considering that if I'm Town, he's Town too. Why the change of heart?

I didn't come to this conclusion on a whim. It took me a long time to compile this entire case, and over that time it occurred to me that if I was right about both you AND the vig, then today was conceivably the last day. With that in mind, I then it realized you could just be straight-up lying about it.

You're not considering the possibility of Petr being town at all. What are you talking about?

[Hinckley]

You're avoiding my question. What would you do if you were the tracker and Petr had told you he was vanilla and you found him targeting Toki, the Scummiest player in this game.

I didn't come to this conclusion on a whim. It took me a long time to compile this entire case, and over that time it occurred to me that if I was right about both you AND the vig, then today was conceivably the last day. With that in mind, I then it realized you could just be straight-up lying about it.

Could be. That's the first time I've heard you not be adamant about it. Could be, but I'm not. I haven't lied about anything in this game, save for the things I said to the Scum or to rile them up.

You're not considering the possibility of Petr being town at all. What are you talking about?

He lied to me. Why would someone who is Town do that? Why would someone professing his trust in me and trying to proxy his vote me lie to me? Do you have an answer for that?

[CMP]

You're avoiding my question. What would you do if you were the tracker and Petr had told you he was vanilla and you found him targeting Toki, the Scummiest player in this game.

He lied to me. Why would someone who is Town do that? Why would someone professing his trust in me and trying to proxy his vote me lie to me? Do you have an answer for that?

That depends, am I scum and have I duped the entire town block in this scenario?

If you weren't lying, yeah, that's blatantly scummy, but you are lying, so that's also completely irrelevant.

[Hinckley]

That depends, am I scum and have I duped the entire town block in this scenario?

If you weren't lying, yeah, that's blatantly scummy, but you are lying, so that's also completely irrelevant.

Why are you so confident I'm lying? That doesn't make sense to me. Especially since I am absolutely telling the truth. But, seriously, why? Again, it reeks of desperation.

[CMP]

Why are you so confident I'm lying? That doesn't make sense to me. Especially since I am absolutely telling the truth. But, seriously, why? Again, it reeks of desperation.

Because you being scum would explain everything, including the one big thing that NOBODY else can explain.

Of course I'm freaking desperate, you're about to stab us in the back and win the game.

Come on, this has happened before, it's in the last Ragnarok game, except this time your team just sucked.

What's your theory as to why Petr targeted and Toki and what he was doing? Especially since, as you aptly pointed out, Toki has been very scummy the whole game?

[Adam]

You still haven't explained how night-killing him as opposed to lynching him gets us a chance to talk to him. The vig can also be blocked at night you know. We could lynch Petr and then have the vig blocked. Why not do it that way? Same result, right?

I spoke to that in an earlier post. I've decided that it's more useful to learn Petr's allegiance than it is to hear from him.

I would accept that - lynching Petr and blocking the vigilante. However, that limits us in the sense that we learn less about the vigilante that way. If we make Petr a night kill, then we get to see how the vigilante reacts. Will he or she kill Petr, as instructed, or will he or she gun for someone else?

Again, I'm fine with lynching Petr and blocking the vigilante, but I think we'd learn more from saving him for a night kill. Furthermore, it would require absolute confirmation from the blocker that this is what is going to happen - that the vigilante will be blocked. And in the event that there's a scum who isn't Petr who's been holding back a kill, then he or she could simply kill the blocker.

It frankly bothers me that you're utterly refusing to do anything besides lynch Petr. If you're telling the truth, then I can understand why you'd be frustrated. I'd be frustrated, too, if I had found real evidence and then suddenly come under fire. But you have to acknowledge that people, at the very least Canute, myself, and possibly Cranebeinn, have doubts about you, and that it's in no way unreasonable to want those doubts alleviated.

If we follow my course of action, you can even track Canute to make sure that he's not protecting Petr. I've messaged the blocker separately, and I'm hesitantly willing to go through with lynching Petr and blocking the vigilante, but it'll take more than two votes to lynch Petr, and I think it's about time that we heard from other people, and not just through PM.

[Hinckley]

So, you're so confident because I was Scum in the last Ragnarok game. Gotcha. Metagaming reason. No basis in fact. I'm not lying. You should check your confidence because it's totally unfounded. Petr targeted Toki and I'll say again I have no idea what he could be doing. All I know is we're all confused why there hasn't been a Scum kill for three days and Petr lied to me. We should be worried about what he could be doing and not let him do it again, whatever it is.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's weird you went from thinking Petr had a Town Action, to wanting to kill the vig to an unprecedented and confident read on me as the most diabolical mastermind to ever play this game. And I don't like how Agnar wants to let Petr make it to the Night phase. That's three people I don't like their behavior from today. And three remaining Scum (though I can't imagine there being seven Scum in this game) with four Townies minus one Townie equals...Loss for the Town. Again, a lot is making me anxious right now. Yes, I want to lynch Petr. I know he targeted Toki meaning he lied to me. The way to get an answer is to lynch him. I don't think there were seven Scum to start with but you and Agnar both seem to be trying to get Petr to the night phase. Even being confoundingly confident about something you have no evidence for.

[Adam]

The more I think about it, the more I think it's weird you went from thinking Petr had a Town Action, to wanting to kill the vig to an unprecedented and confident read on me as the most diabolical mastermind to ever play this game. And I don't like how Agnar wants to let Petr make it to the Night phase. That's three people I don't like their behavior from today. And three remaining Scum (though I can't imagine there being seven Scum in this game) with four Townies minus one Townie equals...Loss for the Town. Again, a lot is making me anxious right now. Yes, I want to lynch Petr. I know he targeted Toki meaning he lied to me. The way to get an answer is to lynch him. I don't think there were seven Scum to start with but you and Agnar both seem to be trying to get Petr to the night phase. Even being confoundingly confident about something you have no evidence for.

The idea that I want Petr to "get to the night phase" is patently ridiculous. I've consented to lynching him today under certain circumstances, and I've suggested both blocking and killing him at night. Besides, if he is scum and he does have some kind of non-killing action, what could he possibly do? Especially if he's megablocking blocked? Is he gonna recruit someone? Because as you claimed, he targeted Toki already, so if there was someone to recruit, then he already did it. There's nobody left, unless PRs can be recruited, and if they can then this game is straight ducked.

Whose mother do I have to megabluck to get the swear filter removed?

[CMP]

So, you're so confident because I was Scum in the last Ragnarok game. Gotcha. Metagaming reason. No basis in fact. I'm not lying. You should check your confidence because it's totally unfounded. Petr targeted Toki and I'll say again I have no idea what he could be doing. All I know is we're all confused why there hasn't been a Scum kill for three days and Petr lied to me. We should be worried about what he could be doing and not let him do it again, whatever it is.

I meant building the entire town block around you and then leading them on right up until the end.

This is what gets me. Even if I humor you in your tracker results, you still can't come up with any explanation as to what Petr is doing, and why, and how.

You want to bet the ENTIRE game on Petr's lynch and we don't even get to know what we're trying to do. All you can do is sputter about traitors and conversions and keep on lynching and killing.

My theory is built around an explanation, something that explains everything.

[Hinckley]

I would accept that - lynching Petr and blocking the vigilante. However, that limits us in the sense that we learn less about the vigilante that way. If we make Petr a night kill, then we get to see how the vigilante reacts. Will he or she kill Petr, as instructed, or will he or she gun for someone else?

That's the opposite of what Canute is saying. Canute is saying that the "vig" and I will kill everyone tonight.

Again, I'm fine with lynching Petr and blocking the vigilante, but I think we'd learn more from saving him for a night kill. Furthermore, it would require absolute confirmation from the blocker that this is what is going to happen - that the vigilante will be blocked. And in the event that there's a scum who isn't Petr who's been holding back a kill, then he or she could simply kill the blocker.

You don't trust the blocker either?

It frankly bothers me that you're utterly refusing to do anything besides lynch Petr. If you're telling the truth, then I can understand why you'd be frustrated. I'd be frustrated, too, if I had found real evidence and then suddenly come under fire. But you have to acknowledge that people, at the very least Canute, myself, and possibly Cranebeinn, have doubts about you, and that it's in no way unreasonable to want those doubts alleviated.

I trust my results and the knowledge that Petr is a liar. I don't trust people. I trust the results and my own experience. I have no reason to trust anything but what I know to be fact. Petr is a liar and it is highly concerning that I'm getting resistance to lynching a person I know to be a liar. That makes me uneasy about you and Canute so I'm less concerned about your doubts than why the two of you are resisting lynching someone who has not only proven useless throughout the game but I know is lying.

If we follow my course of action, you can even track Canute to make sure that he's not protecting Petr. I've messaged the blocker separately, and I'm hesitantly willing to go through with lynching Petr and blocking the vigilante, but it'll take more than two votes to lynch Petr, and I think it's about time that we heard from other people, and not just through PM.

Why is there so much PMing going on when Canute has pretty much spilled all of the roles? You're waiting to hear from Toki? You're afraid that we will reveal too much to him? What are you guys saying that can't be said in public?

The idea that I want Petr to "get to the night phase" is patently ridiculous. I've consented to lynching him today under certain circumstances, and I've suggested both blocking and killing him at night.

Did I miss your vote?

Besides, if he is scum and he does have some kind of non-killing action, what could he possibly do?

You might have heard me say this somewhere...I don't know! I know that he lied. If he's Town, what could he possibly do?

[CMP]

The more I think about it, the more I think it's weird you went from thinking Petr had a Town Action, to wanting to kill the vig to an unprecedented and confident read on me as the most diabolical mastermind to ever play this game. And I don't like how Agnar wants to let Petr make it to the Night phase. That's three people I don't like their behavior from today. And three remaining Scum (though I can't imagine there being seven Scum in this game) with four Townies minus one Townie equals...Loss for the Town. Again, a lot is making me anxious right now. Yes, I want to lynch Petr. I know he targeted Toki meaning he lied to me. The way to get an answer is to lynch him. I don't think there were seven Scum to start with but you and Agnar both seem to be trying to get Petr to the night phase. Even being confoundingly confident about something you have no evidence for.

Now you're the one being obtuse. You're really latching onto the smallest details here. Yeah, I briefly thought Petr might've had a night action, then realized if you WERE the mastermind, it'd make more sense that you were just lying outright to get Petr lynched and secure your win.

And that's why you're so damn stubborn about having him lynched now.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count

Pudding-Head (Hinckley): 1 vote (CallMePie)

Petr Half-Troll (Piratedave84): 1 vote (Hinckley)

No Vote: 5 (Chromeknight, Pandora, TrumpetKing, Adam)

With 7 players remaining, 4 votes are required to lynch. 24 hours remain in the day.

[CMP]

You might have heard me say this somewhere...I don't know! I know that he lied. If he's Town, what could he possibly do?

And that's why I believe so strongly in my theory. There's no questions hanging off the end like this. There's a why for everything, where you can't come up with any for Petr being scum.

[Hinckley]

My theory is built around an explanation, something that explains everything.

But it's only a theory and I know your theory is wrong so I'm going to keep saying it. Our theory about Lauga explained everything too. Was it right? Oh...let me think about it. NO! But we all thought we were ending the game. You're wrong again. I'm Town. I'm the tracker. Petr told me he was vanilla. I targeted Petr and learned that he targeted Toki. That means he lied. Why would he lie? Because he is Scum. Also, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE DID. ALL I KNOW IS HE DID SOMETHING WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF NOTHING WHICH IS WHAT HE TOLD ME HE COULD DO WHICH IS A GOD DAMN LIE!

No Vote: 5 (Chromeknight, Pandora, TrumpetKing, Adam)

There's a math problem here...

[CMP]

There's why for the scum not killing, there's a why for Petr's night action (it doesn't exist), there's a why for the vig killing the investigator, there's a why for the vig's weirdness, there's a why for you completely intent on lynching Petr right now.

[Adam]

That's the opposite of what Canute is saying. Canute is saying that the "vig" and I will kill everyone tonight.

First of all, that's not the opposite of what he's saying. Second of all, I'm under no obligation to agree with him totally, or even to agree with him at all. Third of all, if the vigilante gets blocked, then I don't see how you manage to kill enough people to win the game tonight.

You don't trust the blocker either?

I only trust one person. Myself. But after that, the blocker is probably the person I trust the most. Do you just pull random things from posts and use them for baseless accusations? In how many different directions to you plan to point your finger before the day is done?

Why is there so much PMing going on when Canute has pretty much spilled all of the roles? You're waiting to hear from Toki? You're afraid that we will reveal too much to him? What are you guys saying that can't be said in public?

I haven't said jack shit in PM that I haven't said in the main thread, as well. Your last question is my question, as well. Where the hell is everyone, and why have they not commented on this entire discussion?

[Hinckley]

There's why for the scum not killing,

Incorrect. I'm the town tracker. I can't kill. It doesn't explain at all why we haven't see a Scum kill.

there's a why for Petr's night action (it doesn't exist),

It does. He targeted Toki last night.

there's a why for you completely intent on lynching Petr right now.

Knowing what I know, there's no better place for my vote.

[Adam]

I can say "shit" but for some reason I'm not allowed to say f star star k?

[Hinckley]

I can say "shit" but for some reason I'm not allowed to say f star star k?

This is your biggest concern right now?

[CMP]

I'm not trying to convince you of anything Pudding-Head, our arguments are obviously completely mutually exclusive and I'm making a case for everyone else (wherever the hell they are) to make their vote.

[Adam]

This is your biggest concern right now?

Does it look like my biggest concern?

Perhaps consider responding to my post instead of commenting on that?