Bionicle 2016 Story Discussion & Rumors

[Aanchir]

July, I think. Can't find where that was announced though.

BZPower's New York Toy Fair coverage mentioned it, so presumably they were able to confirm it there.

Maybe Voporak did something to the mask. He escaped with it, right? We were never told why he wants it if I remember correctly. Maybe it had something to do with a second half. Not sure why at this point.

This is one of the things that I think complicates the whole issue of whether the Mask of Time connects G1 and G2. I am not sure whether it's realistic to expect any official connection to directly follow up on specific loose ends from the G1 serials, especially considering how MANY of those there were.

[Mesonak]

There's no chance that Lego will revisit old plot threads and abandoned loose ends from G1. That's just not going to happen. Like you said, there's far too many of them to realistically address in any meaningful manner. It would do them no good to dredge up those specific story elements again. That being said, a connection can still exist between the two generations in a broader sense, and I'm pretty confident at this point that it will.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Mesonak

[xboxtravis7992]

Here you go... It looks a tad odd, though. Not sure if I did it right.

I want it. I don't care if it comes out in a bad set, I want it. Oh my gosh it's just cool looking, would make a great display piece next to my original 2001 Vahi.

[MakutaOfWar]

So, is the Vahi the Mask of Ultimate Power?

[Iben]

So, is the Vahi the Mask of Ultimate Power?

I wonder why everyone keeps saying that. Sure, it has some of the same design elements, but both pieces of the Mask of Time ( the Vahi and the new piece) are said to be extremely old, older than the Mask Makers. Whilst the MoUP was made by Makuta quite "recently". So I don't think there's a chance the two are the same...

-Iben

[Dorek]

Vahi, huh? Cool.

[DraikNova]

To be honest, "Voporak did it" is pretty much the only way I'd like a G1-G2 connection. So now my headcanon is "G2 happened because Voporak got hungry".

Also, I don't think it's too strange to imagine that, when the MoUP, which was forged similarly to the original Vahi (six elemental powers vs all six main elemental powers in the form of discs), is eventually purified, it becomes the mask of time and travels back to the origin of the G2 universe, making it older than the universe by virtue of stable time loop.

Edited April 26, 2016 by DraikNova

[Voxovan]

So, is the Vahi the Mask of Ultimate Power?

Mask of Ultimate Power was forged by Makuta long after Ekimu used the Mask of Time, so I don't see how this is possible...

[Aanchir]

Also, I don't think it's too strange to imagine that, when the MoUP, which was forged similarly to the original Vahi (six elemental powers vs all six main elemental powers in the form of discs), is eventually purified, it becomes the mask of time and travels back to the origin of the G2 universe, making it older than the universe by virtue of stable time loop.

The disk powers that made the Mask of Time in G1 weren't really elemental in nature. But I can definitely dig this sort of wacky time travel shenanigans!

Actually, connecting the Mask of Time's origins with the Mask of Ultimate Power would be an interesting way of justifying bringing it into the sets in 2018, when the Mask of Ultimate Power will presumably be a key plot element. It's still pure speculation at this point, but it could make for an interesting development. Hard to tell how the "second half" of the Mask of Time would factor into that kind of scenario, though.

[MrHerofan]

A connection does seem plausible, but at the same time just because something shares a name doesn't mean its the old G1 mask. Thats like saying all of the Transformers universes and continuities are connected because they all have an all spark. I am not completely ruling out the possibility of a connection the name Vahi is likely an easter egg to fans. Though I really do hope we get this mask in a set next year.

[Logan McOwen]

"It's called the Vahi so it must mean G1 and G2 are connected!" is yet another super-weak argument for a connection, especially considering that the six Toa and Makuta also share names with their G1 counterparts while being unique to this new universe in and of themselves. Also, IIRC, Vakama didn't forge the G1 Vahi in two halves or break some top half off or something, and even if he did I don't see how this top half would just disappear into the aether, only to reappear billions and billions of centuries later on another planet in a distant galaxy. You can argue "times wimey nonsense", but to me that just feels like more of an excuse.

This is most likely just another artefact of G2 lore that shares a name and role with something from G1's lore - because y'know, that's a thing rebooted franchises do? Harken back to their original iteration/s? I mean, look at Transformers, with its many Optimus Primes, Autobots and Matrixes of Leadership - same concepts, different universes, different rules/characterisations. At least, I really, really hope that's the case here.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Logan McOwen

[Junior Shark]

^^This. Vakama only made one half of a mask originally, so an unnecessarily convoluted explanation would have to explain the G1/G2 connection.

And the connection of alternate dimensions, IMO, never works out well. Just look at Marvel and DC comics (unless it's Secret Wars. Then it's very good), and the mess that is a lot of stuff in the later part of G1.

[Dorek]

"It's called the Vahi so it must mean G1 and G2 are connected!" is yet another super-weak argument for a connection, especially considering that the six Toa and Makuta also share names with their G1 counterparts while being unique to this new universe in and of themselves. Also, IIRC, Vakama didn't forge the G1 Vahi in two halves or break some top half off or something, and even if he did I don't see how this top half would just disappear into the aether, only to reappear billions and billions of centuries later on another planet in a distant galaxy. You can argue "times wimey nonsense", but to me that just feels like more of an excuse.

This is most likely just another artefact of G2 lore that shares a name and role with something from G1's lore - because y'know, that's a thing rebooted franchises do? Harken back to their original iteration/s? I mean, look at Transformers, with its many Optimus Primes, Autobots and Matrixes of Leadership - same concepts, different universes, different rules/characterisations. At least, I really, really hope that's the case here.

Well, the thing is that the deliberate mystery of the Toa's origins (that continually gets referenced, so will likely be a future plot point) is what people actually use as evidence that there's a connection; clearly these are the Toa from G1, etc.

That said, Makuta being Makuta just shreds that argument. The character whose name isn't actually Makuta somehow existed before all of these things and was known by Ekimu? That's not even bad evidence, that'd just be bad storytelling.

[Kalhiki]

"It's called the Vahi so it must mean G1 and G2 are connected!" is yet another super-weak argument for a connection, especially considering that the six Toa and Makuta also share names with their G1 counterparts while being unique to this new universe in and of themselves.

I see your point. And I'm still in the boat that says the continuities are separate.

But there's one interesting thing I find: The Vahi is the only mask to bear a name (granted, that's from a long time ago, and it's now the Mask of Time, but whatever). All the other masks are simply named based on their power (Mask of Fire, Mask of Creation, Mask of Ultimate Power, etc.). I just find it strange that the completed version has a name while all other masks do not.

Can't say that's any good evidence for a connection. But at the very least, it's a nice bit of trivia.

[GK733]

So all of these implications are just to confuse people and pull the floor under them when it's revealed?

Sounds like a great idea!

[Lyichir]

So all of these implications are just to confuse people and pull the floor under them when it's revealed?

Sounds like a great idea!

What implications are you referring to? Your post is so vague that I can't even tell if you're talking about implications for or against a connection (though the evidence against a connection extends beyond "implications" due to concrete statements denying one).

The main issue I have with connection theories is that they almost ALWAYS raise more questions than they answer. A connection, especially one that would make up a foundational element of the story, begs the question of the nature of that connection—what happened to cause it, and why any differences between the two canons (of which there are many) exist. And not only are there numerous issues with the presumption that the Vahi is the same one from G1 (most notably, that the G1 Vahi didn't have an upper half, and its relegation to an obscure serial at the storyline's end), but connecting G1 to G2 almost necessarily grafts on all the baggage and loose ends onto the new storyline as well, many of which will have to be addressed for the twist to even begin to make sense.

One theory I've seen that makes more sense and, in my opinion, would make an EXCELLENT twist, is that the Mask of Ultimate Power IS in fact the Vahi or Mask of Time. Perhaps when Ekimu knocked the mask off of Makuta, it shattered, and because of its temporal nature that one half sent catapulting backwards in time (this being the improbably ancient half that the Protectors and Ekimu used) and the other half, presumably, cast into the future. That kind of twist is not only self-contained, it also synthesizes multiple mysteries of the G2 story into an elegant solution. Why hasn't the other half of the Vahi surfaced? Because, as far as the timeline is concerned, it doesn't even exist yet. Ditto for the Mask of Ultimate Power, which unlike Ekimu and Makuta has yet to influence the events of the story beyond its initial use in the Legend.

[ToaDraco]

If they make a G1 connection, it will be VERY vague in nature and really only be a shout out for the fans of the original series, maybe at the very end of the 2017 story. Maybe the Toa regain their memories and, with their mission complete, open up a portal using the Vahi to a very familiar place in 'the time before time'. I don't expect any closure of the various loose ends nor do I really want them or think that would make sense here per se. I like the design of the upper half and I really hope we get both pieces next year, with obvious revisions to the bottom half, along with the MoUP of course.

[MrHerofan]

So if the combined mask is called the Vahi and the top half is the Mask of Time, does that mean the lower half of the mask is also a Mask of Time, or does it have another power? Either way I am excited to see if we get this piece and if it will play a larger role in the story.

[Fulcrumfan91]

"It's called the Vahi so it must mean G1 and G2 are connected!" is yet another super-weak argument for a connection, especially considering that the six Toa and Makuta also share names with their G1 counterparts while being unique to this new universe in and of themselves. Also, IIRC, Vakama didn't forge the G1 Vahi in two halves or break some top half off or something, and even if he did I don't see how this top half would just disappear into the aether, only to reappear billions and billions of centuries later on another planet in a distant galaxy. You can argue "times wimey nonsense", but to me that just feels like more of an excuse.

This is most likely just another artefact of G2 lore that shares a name and role with something from G1's lore - because y'know, that's a thing rebooted franchises do? Harken back to their original iteration/s? I mean, look at Transformers, with its many Optimus Primes, Autobots and Matrixes of Leadership - same concepts, different universes, different rules/characterisations. At least, I really, really hope that's the case here.

Agreed! :-D

[DuckBricks]

The way I see it, if they reference Gen 1 in any way, it would be a brief easter egg near the end of the year, if the Toa are getting glimpses of other alternate universes and a brief flash of Gen 1 is shown. I know some people have said that it wouldn't really work, but an example of this is in the DC TV show The Flash, where, if you don't watch it, the titular character is getting a glimpse of other worlds and sees a version of the Flash from an older show a few years ago. It didn't have a huge implication in the story, it was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it type easter egg, but it was there to pay homage to what came before. That would be the kind of Gen 1 reference I'd like.

[Kalta the Noble Mind]

So if the combined mask is called the Vahi and the top half is the Mask of Time, does that mean the lower half of the mask is also a Mask of Time, or does it have another power? Either way I am excited to see if we get this piece and if it will play a larger role in the story.

i think the implication is that the Mask of time basically encompassed all powers related to time including time travel. and with the mask split each half contains a specific time power, with the Okoto Mask of time having the ability to view specific points in time (Chronomancy) while the G1 vahi had the ability to control the flow of time (temporalmancy). basically the map and engine where the former shows you where to go and the latter gets you there.

that is how i understand it at least.

on the subject of wild mass guessing wouldnt it be interesting if there is like a meta-verse which sort of dictates the happenings of sub-universes that make the multiverse? like how in Bioshock infinite there are constants and variables with the one Lighthouse being a prime constant appearing in every quantum reality. maybe in the bionicle meta-verse here are similar constants like there is always six prime elements with a hero representing each one and there is always an evil being named Makuta and he is always defeated by a prime mask of power that encompasses time.

vakama technically had the other half of the mask of time but only in its power and purpose. being an inevitability to exist vakama was just the means for the vahi to be. and technically the mask of time on okoto isnt as old or as "broken" as the historians claimed but was forged "whole" like vakama did but with Okoto historians being either cryptic or just on the cusp of understanding reality misinterpreted the evidence of a Prime/meta mask of time that predated the universe with full power over time that their current mask of time emulates as said mask of time being so old and broken in half. if i make any sense.

this could be a clever sendoff as the final year of G2 Bionicle as people claimed each year was representing one of the three virtues with the current year being unity and the past year maybe being duty.

this final year could represent Destiny and show that in every concievible reality there are always Toa and there is always makuta and good always triumphs over evil, and the mask of time shows them this single destiny. could probably be a way to let the audience continue to support the series in their own fan-content from comics to writing to MoCs letting each one reality in a multiverse. or something.

a more nutty just-for-fun theory can be Karzahni's Olisi being the future-vision upper half of the mask of time only with bits of junk grafted onto it so it looks "complete". the lower half got destroyed somehow so the great beings either sent vakama telepathic instructions to build said mask or makuta learned of how to make said mask and tasked vakama to do it, since he comissioned the project when disguised as Turaga Dume. that would be interesting!

as for serious theories the one Lyichir heard about the MoUP being the "whole" mask of time with the great cataclysim sending each half into the past and future separately seemed most plausible and practical as the story team can delay the MoUP's reveal for as long as they want and basically be the mata nui story engine of G2.

but my main concern would be the nature of mask making in G2 in that case. in G1 it was established that the kanohi were made out of kanoka with specific recipes resulting in specific powers but from my understanding you embue power into g2 masks by literally forging the element in question into its metal,like vines to get a mask of jungle or snow to get a mask of ice. so for 6 natural elements to embue a mask with time powers mans we're working on a recipe system like G1.

[GK733]

On the other hand there is enough evidence why the MoUP isn't the mask of time.

According to the book Makuta created the mask so he could terraform the island and weather etc. stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the powers of neither the Vahi or the one stored in the temple of time.

It doesn't add up.

[DraikNova]

What implications are you referring to? Your post is so vague that I can't even tell if you're talking about implications for or against a connection (though the evidence against a connection extends beyond "implications" due to concrete statements denying one).

The main issue I have with connection theories is that they almost ALWAYS raise more questions than they answer. A connection, especially one that would make up a foundational element of the story, begs the question of the nature of that connection—what happened to cause it, and why any differences between the two canons (of which there are many) exist. And not only are there numerous issues with the presumption that the Vahi is the same one from G1 (most notably, that the G1 Vahi didn't have an upper half, and its relegation to an obscure serial at the storyline's end), but connecting G1 to G2 almost necessarily grafts on all the baggage and loose ends onto the new storyline as well, many of which will have to be addressed for the twist to even begin to make sense.

One theory I've seen that makes more sense and, in my opinion, would make an EXCELLENT twist, is that the Mask of Ultimate Power IS in fact the Vahi or Mask of Time. Perhaps when Ekimu knocked the mask off of Makuta, it shattered, and because of its temporal nature that one half sent catapulting backwards in time (this being the improbably ancient half that the Protectors and Ekimu used) and the other half, presumably, cast into the future. That kind of twist is not only self-contained, it also synthesizes multiple mysteries of the G2 story into an elegant solution. Why hasn't the other half of the Vahi surfaced? Because, as far as the timeline is concerned, it doesn't even exist yet. Ditto for the Mask of Ultimate Power, which unlike Ekimu and Makuta has yet to influence the events of the story beyond its initial use in the Legend.

For bonus timey-wimeyness, you could even claim that the fragment cast into the future stopped existing at the moment the MoUP was shattered.

[Dr_Chronos]

There's a new speedpaint up on Bionicle's Facebook page, this time featuring Kopaka.

[DuplexBeGreat]

Setting aside the controversial and essentially unsolvable debate about the implications of OH SWEET MATA NUI G2 VAHI IS CANON, I'd like to point out some of the little details included in the Graphic Novel that, in my opinion, do an excellent job of worldbuilding our sparse G2 universe. Including, but not limited to:

• Small changes to the names developed by Ryder Windham, which don't seem too bad to me
  
• Confirmed proper titles for each Protector role, as separate from the two names we already have for each (Ex. Agarak is the old PoJ, Vizuna is the current PoJ, the title of the Protector of Jungle is "Jagiri")
  
• Moms. Inns. "Junior". A more "human" side to the Protectors! This is great! I mean, come on, Junior! That's adorable!
  
• Insight into the mask creation process, which also reveals some more information about the Creatures
  
• Pictures of dual-element masks! Also, random appearance of a "groundskeeper"--- further worldbuilding.
  
• BIOMECHANICAL BIRDS. AND THEY'RE CALLED TWEEPERS.
  
• Airships.
  
• A I R S H I P S .
  
• jfajklfjadklfjkljfklaj VAHI
  
• Capital. City. Holy crap, a capital city.
  
• Some fruit called "bonnotoboes". Amazing.
  
• "I'm sorry, my love." LOVE CONFIRMED
  
• Actual context for the buildup to Ekimu and Makuta's battle
  
• A realistic reason for Makuta to build the MoUP other than "waaah worship me"
  
• Very good story pacing in making the battle, the cataclysm, and the aftermath feel intense. I'm being heavily reminded of the climax in book 6 of the Bone graphic novel series.