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Bionicle 2016 Story Discussion & Rumors

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Oh my god you guys they use the Ignika as a logo, G1 and G2 must be connected!

Oh, sorry, I thought this was 2014. My bad.

Because the finality and quality of this teaser and the old 2015 retailer display mockups are totally identical. :/

Also, the Ignika was never the G2 logo. The "Ignika" as we saw it was a placholder mask with a vague imprint of the Mata Nui robot symbol in it. This is literally the Mata Nui island in it's exact form and detail (blacked out of course) used on what is clearly finished, high-quality promotional artwork. I don't believe personally that it is Mata Nui, or if it is that it is connected to G1, but you can't mock people for seeing a connection that is quite plainly there.

The story was pretty basic throughout the whole saga: bad guys vs good guys.

As well as parallel dimensions, bad guys becoming good guys, good guys becoming bad guys, secret societies, secret islands, ancient spirits, all-powerful alien creators, etc.

The main story wasn't complicated, but Bionicle wasn't just the main story.

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The main story wasn't complicated, but Bionicle wasn't just the main story.

I could say the same about the Doctor Who expanded universe. I adore the likes of Evelyn Smythe, Frobisher, Bernice Summerfield, Fitz Kreiner, Nobody No-one the Extra-Dimensional Word Lord, the Alex Macqueen Master, the alternate David Warner Doctor etc. but I don't expect most Doctor Who fans I come across to know about them. Not knowing about them doesn't confuse the casual viewer of the television program.

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Because the finality and quality of this teaser and the old 2015 retailer display mockups are totally identical. :/

Also, the Ignika was never the G2 logo. The "Ignika" as we saw it was a placholder mask with a vague imprint of the Mata Nui robot symbol in it. This is literally the Mata Nui island in it's exact form and detail (blacked out of course) used on what is clearly finished, high-quality promotional artwork. I don't believe personally that it is Mata Nui, or if it is that it is connected to G1, but you can't mock people for seeing a connection that is quite plainly there.

Not saying it isn't Mata Nui at all; it clearly is, or at least the same shape. And we have the actual Nuva symbols (well, "officially" rather than just as Easter eggs - or would they have been teasers?), so they're not above reusing the same designs from G1. But the Mask of Creation has, presumably, had a finalized render for a while now (since before 2015), so to see Mata Nui there is not that surprising. Not to mention even on "finalized" things (note that this is leaked, and we haven't seen the version intended for consumers yet) you can still get placeholder elements; remember Dark Destiny?

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At the stage of development when this poster would have been made, the island of Okoto presumably would have had a finalized shape and design. There would be no reason to use this island as a placeholder image. This is a drastically different scenario from the Ignika, which was from early preliminary concept imagery (before the sets even had background artwork for their boxes), and was likely drafted up pretty early on into the theme's lifespan. It makes perfect sense for placeholder imagery to be seen in confidential box-art, especially when the final MoCr likely wasn't finished being designed at the time those pictures were created.

So no, at this juncture, I don't really put any stake into saying that Mata Nui is a "placeholder" for Okoto. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it, but it doesn't seem likely to me at all and it seems like grasping from people desperate to deny even the faintest possibility of some type of connection. It'd be much more reasonable to just label this as a mistake (like the Hero Pack MoCr design), or say that they're just reusing the shape of Mata Nui as a G1 reference, but it won't actually be the island of Mata Nui. Just some other new island that resembles it so old fans can go "Hey, I remember that place!" Or, there could be an island CALLED Mata Nui (just like there's a guy called Makuta), but it won't be the same Mata Nui from the G1 universe.

That being said, if you want my personal opinion, I think this was intentional (for whatever reason) and I'm interested to see what Lego has up their sleeves, if anything.

Edited by Mesonak

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I think it's intriguing and a G1 connection would open up a lot of story possibilities.

However, in my opinion, I think someone on the art team mistook Mata Nui for Okoto. I know I didn't notice that was Mata Nui until someone pointed it out.

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Didn't the team say that Mata Nui (Great Spirit) exists in this universe but doesn't have a great role in the play?

It would make sense to use the outline of the island to notify of his presence instead of a Hau or robot.

But wouldn't that give him a greater role already?

I strongly believe that Mata nui is featured on the final poster but even I ain't believing my own theories at this point.

Edited by GK733

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Didn't the team say that Mata Nui (Great Spirit) exists in this universe but doesn't have a great role in the play?

What? I don't think they said any such thing. Otherwise the conversations this time last year would have been way different.

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Didn't the team say that Mata Nui (Great Spirit) exists in this universe but doesn't have a great role in the play?

No, that was never said; quite the opposite, in fact. Mata Nui was mentioned at NYCC and they acknowledged his existence in old canon but stated that this time, we were focusing on Ekimu and Makuta.

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I'm still gonna say that the island of Mata Nui is a placeholder........there is no way that the two generations are connected at all.

I am rather puzzled by the insistence that a connection between the two canons is unthinkable. I get that some would rather that Gen2 be completely unconnected to its predecessor, but it's by no means out of the question. Abrams' Star Trek did it (without bogging the films down in lore.) I get the impression that it's a fairly common practice. For example, there were plans for the aborted 90's hard Doctor Who reboot to eventually link back to the classic series.

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Yeah, I don't think a G1-G2 connection is out of the question. I do, however, think many of the specific connection theories I've seen are troublesome in one way or another. For instance, the idea that the G2 Toa are the G1 Toa in the past or future begs the question of why their personalities, mask powers, and elemental powers are so different than in G1. Not to mention why other discrepancies between G1 and G2 exist, like the inhabitants of Okoto being neither Agori nor Matoran.

The most likely way for the two generations to coexist would be some alternate universe scenario. But even then, most fans proposing that do so in the troublesome context of the Toa being plucked out of the G1 universe and thrust into the G2 universe, or worse, having some reality-crossing interloper like Vezon or Takanuva randomly pop up just for the sake of a contrived cameo.

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^All very valid points, indeed. I'm curious as to how Lego will go about handling this, whatever "this" actually ends up being.

Edited by Mesonak

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I love G1 but even I think it's too complicated to tie in with G2, especially considering how 'simple' it's been so far. I'd appreciate bringing in more subjects from G1, but obviously they can do that without it being too complex, like what they did with the characters and such. Though now that I think about it I'd be a little upset that they didn't explore Okoto more. I loved that way the island was set out in all of it's Slizer-Planet-esque design, and these pieces of monthly concept art(those floating rock structures in Stone for example). Maybe the 2017 showdown will happen on Mata Nui. Maybe even full on remakes of the 2001 sets.

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I love G1 but even I think it's too complicated to tie in with G2, especially considering how 'simple' it's been so far. I'd appreciate bringing in more subjects from G1, but obviously they can do that without it being too complex, like what they did with the characters and such.

This.

I remember Greg (?) saying G1 getting so complex was one of the main reasons why it was cancelled. I might be wrong but I absolutely remember reading something like that.

I'd like for there be some connection to G1, maybe G2 being an alternate universe of G1 like The Kingdom, for example, and we'll get a tease or something like Lewa finds a portal or a mirror or whatever where he sees a team of six heroes fighting against a giant vortex of shadows, thinks about it for a second and then just moves on. Just something quick like an easter egg and I'll be happy really.

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The best scenario I can think of for connecting G1 to G2 would be to pull a Star Trek, having someone from G1/G2 travel back in time to change everything. We have means in the form of the Mask of Time. I think the best example for what I'm talking about is the Flashpoint Paradox. In said comic/movie the Flash travels back in time to save his mother. By breaking the Time Barrier he creates ripples through time, much like breaking the Sound barrier creates a sonic boom. The ripples and fractures of time alter all of history. If this was how the G1 or G2 universe came to being it would mean that the universes are one, but not the same.

Edited by Dr_Chronos

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I hope the two aren't connected. G2 so far has been all about new ideas and oppurtunities, and to pull a "We're going back to Mata Nui!" or whatever would kill that for me. I really hope the two are seperate.

Edited by Logan McOwen

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I would be okay with returning to the island of Mata Nui and its locations as long as it was just that- don't bring in any of the same story elements as G1, just some familiar scenery

Although I have been a fan of some okoto architecture, especially structures that are forerunner-like in appearance.

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I'm okay with easter eggs and fan "head canon" depicting a G1-G2 connection, but please no official connection. It's funner letting us play it out in our minds and fan forums than getting an official story.

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I just don't understand why whenever people bring up the possibility of a connection of sorts, people automatically assume it means we'll actually be returning to G1, doing things that affect G1, or having characters from G1 appear. If that was the case, I'm right there with you guys, I'd hate it as well. That's not what I think Lego would ever do, though. It would be a more open-ended thing.

Like, as controversial and questionable as this would be, say they go the angle of the G2 Toa coming from the G1 timeline. Here's how I would envision that playing out: the Toa finish their quest, they get their memories back, and discover where they come from. Much in the same way as they handled the Skull Grinder reveal in the animations, I could see a voice-over by an announcer talking about their homeland, with a constellation or something of the island of Mata Nui, indirectly confirming it.

No matter what angle Lego goes with (if anything), that's about as far as I ever see the generations being connected. Vague hints, references, and perhaps outright confirmations, but nothing that affects the continuity of the story all that much or takes away from its reboot atmosphere.

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Any connection at all would be entirely self-defeating. Nothing has changed from when they made the declaration that the two canons were separate back at NYCC. Linking the two would only A. Alienate people who preferred them separate, and B. introduce a whole can of worms that can't and won't be explained. G1 already blew its load on the whole alternate universe thing. By calling G2 an alternate universe, they'd be acknowledging G1 as the "prime", which is a terrible marketing move.

Not to mention that who's going to explain the actual connection? Greg doesn't write for BIONICLE anymore, and I'm pretty sure they don't want to go back to him (and continue to not pay him regardless) for the sole purpose of this weird fan-fictiony connection a minority segment is asking for. Without explicit and detailed confirmation (and even then), people are just going to keep pressing for more and more, and they know that; it's a rabbit hole they have neither the time nor the resources to devote to.

We're going to get G1 references. That's inevitable. But I certainly don't look forward to having this conversation over and over for the next 2+ years.

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Like, as controversial and questionable as this would be, say they go the angle of the G2 Toa coming from the G1 timeline. Here's how I would envision that playing out: the Toa finish their quest, they get their memories back, and discover where they come from. Much in the same way as they handled the Skull Grinder reveal in the animations, I could see a voice-over by an announcer talking about their homeland, with a constellation or something of the island of Mata Nui, indirectly confirming it.

I think it would be poor storytelling to reveal the Toa's backstory and memories to the Toa without directly revealing them to the audience. If the details of those backstories aren't important enough to tell the audience, then why reveal them at all?

Plus, confirming that the Toa are the same Toa and nothing more than that raises more questions than it answers. If the Toa are the same as the G1 Toa, then why did they fall from space, and how did the Mask of Time help summon them? Why are the Toa's mask powers, weapons, elemental powers, and even personalities different than they were in G1? Did coming to Okoto mean abandoning all the friends and allies they were sworn to protect on Spherus Magna? It just creates a whole host of problems, when it would be easier and more useful to give the Toa new backstories that can actually be explained to the audience without a huge infodump.

I'm sure a G1–G2 link could be pulled off. The Legend of Zelda series, for instance, often manages to reference the events of previous games without going into elaborate detail. However, your suggestion (to me) doesn't seem like a very good way to do it.

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Any connection at all would be entirely self-defeating. Nothing has changed from when they made the declaration that the two canons were separate back at NYCC. Linking the two would only A. Alienate people who preferred them separate, and B. introduce a whole can of worms that can't and won't be explained. G1 already blew its load on the whole alternate universe thing.

I'm confused as to how BIONICLE will necessarily confuse and alienate folks by linking back to its original canon of nine years. If that's the case, then the Abrahmsverse Star Trek movies should have been universally panned for their alternate-timeline shenanigans, linking the reboot back, as they did, to a canon comprising at least twenty-eight years' worth of stories.

By calling G2 an alternate universe, they'd be acknowledging G1 as the "prime", which is a terrible marketing move.

This is a non-sequitur. "Alternate" does not equal "less than" or "copy" or "secondary." Besides, who really cares?

Not to mention that who's going to explain the actual connection? Greg doesn't write for BIONICLE anymore,

Greg is not the only person capable of comprehending the entirety of Gen1's canon, is he?

a minority segment is asking for. Without explicit and detailed confirmation (and even then), people are just going to keep pressing for more and more, and they know that; it's a rabbit hole they have neither the time nor the resources to devote to.

Perhaps this is pedantic of me, but could you please offer some evidence for these claims? How many fans want a connection? How much time and how many resources would need to be devoted to it?

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I'm confused as to how BIONICLE will necessarily confuse and alienate folks by linking back to its original canon of nine years. If that's the case, then the Abrahmsverse Star Trek movies should have been universally panned for their alternate-timeline shenanigans, linking the reboot back, as they did, to a canon comprising at least twenty-eight years' worth of stories.

Different fanbase, different beast. Not to mention that for them, the AU concept is "new", as I understand it.

Also I never really got the comparisons to other franchises that rebooted; I think Transformers is probably the most apt, but then I was never a huge fan there, so I might be misinterpreting it. But various reboots we see do have the dual balance of appeasing old fans (or at least, not pissing them off) while attracting new audiences. LEGO's goal isn't so divided; their metric for success is sales and buzz. These new sets are inspired by the ones that made people get into the franchise in the first place, but that's not the same as targeting the people who will purchase out of nostalgia, and I've seen the two conflated before.

This is a non-sequitur. "Alternate" does not equal "less than" or "copy" or "secondary." Besides, who really cares?

In BIONICLE's case, it does; the alternate universes were established as having branched off from the "prime" universe that the majority of the G1 canon takes place in. You can do AU stories where such a thing doesn't matter (Marvel just introduces universes haphazardly, while DC keeps it tight), but for G1, that's the rules we were given.

And people very much care about G1 and its rules, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

Greg is not the only person capable of comprehending the entirety of Gen1's canon, is he?

Well, maybe, but that's sort of beside the point. He is the one that made up a lot of the weird rules (including the prime universe thing), so presumably the new story team would consult him if they were going to attempt such a connection. Otherwise, they might risk retconning some or a lot of things (another reason to avoid it entirely!).

Perhaps this is pedantic of me, but could you please offer some evidence for these claims? How many fans want a connection? How much time and how many resources would need to be devoted to it?

I have no idea of a percentage (my assumption is that it's a minority, or if not a minority, then a non-set purchasing portion), but you need only to go to some of the early facebook posts on the new BIONICLE page to see people asking for a connection.

As for time and resources, as Aanchir mentioned above, there's a lot of questions that would need to be answered; obviously he thinks there's a more simplistic way to do it, but I'm of the opinion that no matter what, there's no satisfying way of acknowledging a connection without delving back into the whys, which just breed more whys, and take away focus from the current story. Or it could be unanswered, which I consider unsatisfying on multiple levels, and I'm assuming a large portion of the people asking for said connection wouldn't be satisfied with it either, despite what they say.

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Different fanbase, different beast.

Yes, but the reasons that you seem to think it would be a problem still apply, no?

the AU concept is "new", as I understand it.

This is patently not true. The idea of alternate universes in Star Trek goes back to the Original Series, starting in "the Alternative Factor." The Terran Empire-alternate universe, introduced in "Mirror, Mirror" became a recurring feature of Deep Space Nine.

In BIONICLE's case, it does; the alternate universes were established as having branched off from the "prime" universe that the majority of the G1 canon takes place in. You can do AU stories where such a thing doesn't matter (Marvel just introduces universes haphazardly, while DC keeps it tight), but for G1, that's the rules we were given.

Again, who cares? Is the universe somehow less appealing, because it's divergent? Are kids really going to lose any love for it for so abstract a reason?

Also, said confirmation, was, I believe, only given in BZP's "Ask Greg" topic. That is to say, it's something that Farshtey said, not the story, and rather obscure, to boot. Besides, Greg prescribes to a sort of Word of Demigod, whereby what he says is an assumption, liable to change, ala his claim that time-travel in the MU was impossible, or instances where he forgets a previous answer and contradicts himself.

Or are you saying that it would necessitate an explanation for when and how it diverged? In which case, I ask why there can't be other kinds of alternate universes, ala BZP's Expanded Mutltiverse

Well, maybe, but that's sort of beside the point. He is the one that made up a lot of the weird rules (including the prime universe thing), so presumably the new story team would consult him if they were going to attempt such a connection. Otherwise, they might risk retconning some or a lot of things (another reason to avoid it entirely!).

They would (as they have already done) consult with him if they could, no doubt, but I don't imagine they'd despair if they couldn't. Heck, from what I've seen of the latest Ask Greg topic, some fans seem to remember the story's details better than he does (as is natural for these sort of things.)

If fans can comprehend the BIONICLE canon, why can't the current story-team?

I have no idea of a percentage (my assumption is that it's a minority, or if not a minority, then a non-set purchasing portion), but you need only to go to some of the early facebook posts on the new BIONICLE page to see people asking, for a connection.

Oh, I'm quite aware that some folks want a connection. I was wondering what made you think that they were a minority, when I had seen no evidence to suggest that.

As for time and resources, as Aanchir mentioned above, there's a lot of questions that would need to be answered; obviously he thinks there's a more simplistic way to do it, but I'm of the opinion that no matter what, there's no satisfying way of acknowledging a connection without delving back into the whys, which just breed more whys, and take away focus from the current story. Or it could be unanswered, which I consider unsatisfying on multiple levels, and I'm assuming a large portion of the people asking for said connection wouldn't be satisfied with it either, despite what they say.

Questions are a burden to others, answers a prison for oneself.

In all seriousness, understanding part of something does not require an understanding of the whole. If I want to keep a pet, I'll have to know how to ensure it survives happily, but I won't need to be an expert on its anatomy. When I see a cockatiel fly, I can appreciate that it is flying, whilst still wondering about the aerodynamics necessary for it to do so. Not every question about a thing needs to be answered, let alone at once.

Again, look at the new Star Trek, with its Old Spock. Do you appreciate his part in the plot more for knowing about the Original Series? Of course!

But does not being familiar with it ruin your enjoyment of the movie. I should hope not.

Edited by Quisoves Pugnat

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could Dimension hopping Vezon as one year's Big bad be the best way to link the two continuities subtly? to newcomers he will just be one of many villains G2 introduced with a necromancer a hunter and a mad mask maker among them so a dimensional overlord wont be that out of place. if they keep his original eccentric mad personality Vezon can drop hints to G1 as silly quips that denote his universe hopping nature ("so you're this world's Toa of stone eh?" Vezon said to Pohatu. "you're grumpier than the last guy, and what big feet he had!") .

casual fans will just see a silly villain while those who love to look up story would be rewarded with secret knowledge as they find out those comments about their favorite Masters were true in an older continuity and it allows the latest continuity to do its own thing as that reality hopper was just one of many baddies in this particular franchise.

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