LennyRhys

8043 - The Bucket that Never Was

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has anyone tried to put on the 42030 bucket on 8043?....just to see what it looks like

:-)

Top notch styrene work here! When painted it can almost be mistaken as a real LEGO element.

Excellent work,

~John

agreed...it looks like a legit lego part, the attention to detail is terriffic, look forward to seeing to final product once check for blemishes.

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Looks really nice and true to the real thing.

I think TLG should make such a bucket that resembles the real thing, it would look far better on an excavator than the 10x18 wide bucket. It looks too wide and the attaching holes are not in the right position for an excavator.

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Thanks guys. I agree that TLG should have made a bucket for 8043.

Having spoken to an experienced model maker about my bucket it looks like I'll have to make it again, but much thicker so that it is suitable for casting. That's no problem really, just some more time, and I'll share the process step-by-step in this thread so you can see my style of scratch building and how I work with styrene.

I'm not going to change the overall dimensions of the bucket because I think that the bucket in its current size offers a suitable alternative to existing Lego buckets.

The picture I took earlier was a little misleading; although my bucket is significantly larger in volume than the existing backhoe bucket from sets 8851/8862, in profile they are actually similar in size. The biggest differences are the length, a result of a slightly more pointed shape, and of course the width, which is 6 studs vs 9 studs.

Here's a quick photo of the buckets side-by-side, and you can see the similarity in size from this angle. Of course the black bucket is bigger, but it's not so big that it will look too big!

More to follow next week when I build the bucket...again! :laugh:

cXFFjS.jpg

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Surprised at that side shot. Wouldn't have thought they were so similar. Looking forward to seeing more of the styrene process, thanks for sharing.

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Looks great! Wouldn't mind having one or two of those myself!

This topic inspired me to pull out the ol' hacksaw and a tube of superglue, and I just made this:

800x450.jpg

800x450.jpg

Absolutely no precision work here, done in less than ten minutes, but it might look better than the original bucket on the 8043? I don't know, thought I'd just show it off. Given some more time and precision, it could prove a viable option for those willing to sacrifice a 10x18 bucket :classic:

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Looks great! Wouldn't mind having one or two of those myself!

This topic inspired me to pull out the ol' hacksaw and a tube of superglue, and I just made this:

Absolutely no precision work here, done in less than ten minutes, but it might look better than the original bucket on the 8043? I don't know, thought I'd just show it off. Given some more time and precision, it could prove a viable option for those willing to sacrifice a 10x18 bucket :classic:

Nice one, looks good from this angle

Edited by kieran

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Nice one, looks good from this angle

Thanks, and yeah.. not so much from this angle:

800x450.jpg

:laugh:

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This is very nice example of cutting and gluing Lego. It looks great and will be awesome to have this bucket as a standard Lego piece.

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This is very nice example of cutting and gluing Lego. It looks great and will be awesome to have this bucket as a standard Lego piece.

Hopefully with new pneumatics TLG will make a new excavator, and maybe a new bucket! These shown here looks amazing!!!!!!!!

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Thanks again folks. I'm very keen to push this forward (having spoken to somebody who is very experienced with resin casting)

D3K - not bad! Not sure I'd have the heart to do that to a 10x18 bucket... and I have a spare one too!

____

So I'm about to start the redesign and rebuild of "The Bucket that Never Was" and I've been doing a bit of research into excavator buckets for this class of excavator.

I think that the bucket I have designed already is a bit too realistic for Lego in that it looks more like a scale model bucket rather than a Lego backhoe bucket (which is no surprise, seeing that scale models are what I usually make with styrene). I have to be careful here because the bucket should look good (of course) but it should also look like it belongs with a Lego model, which is difficult because no such bucket exists (as yet!).

My idea is to go out on a limb and very slightly alter the existing design and hopefully it will tick all the boxes:

  • look good, especially on set 8043
  • be tough and robust, for playability
  • be "cast friendly" unlike the original bucket I designed
  • pass as an official Lego part - simple but effective design

I'll update soon as I hope to start building the bucket later this afternoon.

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I think that the bucket I have designed already is a bit too realistic for Lego in that it looks more like a scale model bucket rather than a Lego backhoe bucket

I don't see why it's a problem that it looks too realistic :laugh:

IMO realism is better when comparing your bucket to the 10x18 bucket the 8043 came with.

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I just think that there's a fine balance between a good looking element and a "Lego-looking" element, and IMO this is what the 10x18 bucket achieves - it is more realistic than any other Lego bucket before it but it still looks like a Lego element, and as usual the mounting ears are improperly placed...but the bucket still works fine and looks great. It's easy to make a bucket look good, but IMO it's a lot more difficult to make it look like Lego.

The thing I have decided to remove is the part that Moz mentioned in post #24, where there is a lip at the top of the bucket. This is a feature of real excavator buckets, which are reinforced where the mounting ears connect to the main body of the bucket; it has never been done in a Lego bucket before so I have decided not to do this. As Moz suggested, I will be making the internal shape more cast-friendly and the external shape will be slightly different, except in profile where it will be much the same.

Here are some pics of my progress so far. If anybody has any questions, please fire away!

1. New design including the altered shape of the bucket and thicker walls

knrqJP.jpg

2. First cut in 1.5mm styrene with craft knife

sise16.jpg

3. Two identical parts are temporarily welded together and sanded/filed so that they match

BuyjkY.jpg

4. The two sides can be separated easily with a craft knife (they were welded only in very small places)

LKAJk9.jpg

5. Measuring out the back wall of the bucket in 1.5mm styrene. Using calipers I can get this accurate to 2/100 of a mm.

Uy8Idi.jpg

6. The first weld - fairly straightforward, mating flat surfaces at 90* angle

sfYkoI.jpg

7. I always check alignment using my mat - it's very quick that way. The weld is somewhat pliable for about a minute, so there's plenty time to adjust if necessary.

SbqudJ.jpg

8. And the other side goes on. Normally the sidewalls would be joined with a single strip of 0.5mm styrene, but in this case I have opted for 1.5mm at the back to make construction easier. Welding curved surfaces with accurate geometry is NOT fun!

4lB5Wa.jpg

9. Back to 0.5mm styrene, I attach the back. I usually curl it before attaching to make it easier (you can see this in the picture above, in the background). Sometimes this can be a pain because the styrene wants to pull away from the weld, so you need patience for this part!

KTK5KP.jpg

10. And now it's a bucket! The 0.5mm styrene needs to be braced because it'll just warp if not.

ezMHP6.jpg

11. Bracing the underside with some 1mm styrene.

gxIgPo.jpg

12. Before cutting a sheet of styrene, I check if it's square. Sometimes it's not, but if you need precise geometry in a 3D object, your sheets MUST have perfectly square corners.

gqJZ0l.jpg

13. After cutting the 0.5mm to the requred width, I fold it where it will meet the angle at the back of the bucket, and then weld it in place with poly.

aR2PFL.jpg

14. It's important (again) that the fold is parallel and perfectly square, otherwise it will pull the bucket to one side or another. This is going to be the master for silicone molding, so I have to be as accurate as possible with the geometry. Experience definitely helps in this area, because getting good geometry is one of the most difficult things to do with styrene.

Another tip I picked up is that sometimes it's better to make a cut after fixing rather than before. With this 0.5mm sheet firmly in place, it is very easy to cut it at the front and back of the bucket where there is already a straight edge. And the idea there is that you always make your parts too big, because it's far easier to remove styrene than it is to add it!

2zZvfC.jpg

15. Cut to size, we now have the bucket with a 2mm back wall, perfect for casting!

JygOv1.jpg

16. Adding the "skirts" to complete the profile of the bucket.

Nq8so0.jpg

17. Careful planning makes a job easier. This is the schematic for the teeth at 3:1 scale. Every dimension is given a value and the differing thicknesses of styrene sheet will be arranged in a specific order to achieve a neat and accurate finish.

mf0CIn.jpg

18. Here, the final 0.5mm panel has been fixed to the underside of the bucket. The teeth are each 6mm wide and the base of each tooth is marked on a 0.5mm sheet.

R7tRLD.jpg

19. The last for now: here is the schematic I drew up for the prototype bucket. The space between each tooth is 9.5mm.

5thEVw.jpg

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I agree! Please don't "dumb it down". It will look good on the 8043 as is.

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No problemo! Here's Part II of the bucket assembly.

This session was quite labour intensive so there are a lot of steps here.

20. Cutting, shaping and positioning the teeth (0.5mm sheet to begin with)

OwcaLS.jpg

F9oRKk.jpg

21. I have added 1.5mm to each tooth

ZfPGsQ.jpg

22. Preparing the top section of the teeth which has the bevel. It's easiest to do this before making the cuts, and the two pieces of styrene (1mm & 1.5mm) are welded together with the assistance of a vice

1DrdwN.jpg

2dNo0E.jpg

23. After sanding

oQ7KNR.jpg

24. Cutting & fitting

B8tGIA.jpg

Vfw1vY.jpg

25. Further shaping of the teeth - taper at the sides

oudAP8.jpg

89uVqv.jpg

26. Starting on the ears. This will be much easier than usual because they will be affixed to a flat surface and therefore easier to align.

I start by temporarily joining two pieces of 1.5mm sheet so that they are held together for drilling and shaping.

1RDtpS.jpg

J89vKy.jpg

27. I then add 1mm to either side so that they have a total width of 2.5mm when broken apart. 2.5mm allows a 3/4 pin to click through and it sits very securely.

mJs8dV.jpg

upOT31.jpg

LrvhVD.jpg

28. I decided to add some 0.5mm strip over the top to improve the finish of the part, and also a panel on either side for aesthetics. The width of the strip is 3.6mm which is fractionally less than half the width of a brick.

p7K4KE.jpg

LHzASv.jpg

k5EgET.jpg

29. After final sanding to each ear, it's time to mount and align them. This was SO easy compared to the prototype bucket!

2eLEkz.jpg

vhg2fq.jpg

30. Almost finished!

0tMWK3.jpg

31. Adding some reinforcement to hold the ears securely to the body of the bucket - this will be sanded when dry to give it a nice rounded edge

sHaZuA.jpg

Kc8TMV.jpg

32. I don't often use 0.25mm sheet but it was perfect for this job - covering up the seams at the sides of the bucket.

wlSDaN.jpg

33. Cutting an emery board to shape the cutting edge between the teeth

OMoCd4.jpg

mcGBxb.jpg

3RH4AO.jpg

And finally... adding the side reinforcements. The bucket is essentially finished now... just have to go over it with some filler and some fine sandpaper, and then it will be ready for silicone, which I expect to do later this week.

gZmwbr.jpg

SYOadv.jpg

aGpc8x.jpg

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I decided to do something that TLG has never done with a bucket - offer more than one mounting solution.

The two holes at the back of the bucket allow for numerous modifications, eg.

pBXm2d.jpg

buhB9D.jpg

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I'm always drawn any time a thread is mentioning 8043, by far I still think one of the best flagship model, since all the functions are fully remote operated, much like the previous 8275 and the latest 42030.

I've been considering cutting and narrowing the bucket, but seeing this mod of yours, I might just save some tears on Lego purists for cutting an element LOL.

Anyway have you tried attaching this bucket on the model itself and working the bucket through its pace. I'm wondering how rigid this bucket is to withstand normal playing. I'm using a high discharged nimh batteries instead of alkalines, so they can deliver some amps and torque for the M motor.

Looking by your work, seems like you have some considerable skills in plastic modeling, do you by any chance have previous experience in plastic model kits?

Great work!

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I decided to do something that TLG has never done with a bucket - offer more than one mounting solution.

The two holes at the back of the bucket allow for numerous modifications, eg.

i thought it was to get the 3.5 studs and 5studs lenght between the holes

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@Out of Sight, glad you like it!

Regarding the strength of the bucket, the V2 that I have just finished building will be very strong, given that it has the same wall thickness as a typical Lego bucket (circa 2mm). I haven't worked with polyurethane resin before but I know that like many other plastics it has good tensile strength, so if all goes well there shouldn't be any problems. I suspect the linear actuators/gears would give up well before the bucket does.

It would be ideal to test fit either the prototype or the V2 bucket to the actual model, but that's unlikely at the moment (unless I find somebody nearby who has the model). I will definitely be making a video to showcase the buckets (again, if all goes well) and then they will be available for purchase.

And thanks for the compliment. I've been scratch building with styrene for a few years now and I've just learned by doing. It's such a great medium and it reminds me a little of woodworking, which I also enjoy.

@TheNextLegoDesigner, as I showed on the previous page the bucket was designed around a linkage that requires the holes to be placed with one stud between. Any distance between holes can be made to work, but sometimes it's nice to work with standard units (rather than half units).

To move this forward I've ordered 5KG of RTV Silicone which I hope to be collecting on Thursday, so expect an update soon!

Edited by LennyRhys2

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@TheNextLegoDesigner, as I showed on the previous page the bucket was designed around a linkage that requires the holes to be placed with one stud between. Any distance between holes can be made to work, but sometimes it's nice to work with standard units (rather than half units).

yeah i know i don't know why TLG made the bucket with 3.5 studs distance between the conectons. yours looks very realistic

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