Original Bionicle vs CCBS discussion

[MakutaOfWar]

Everyone has their opinions, and they'll do and say whatever to justify them. Just the way the world turns. I love both systems, as long as CCBS sticks with functions and variety. B)

[Logan McOwen]

I will agree that functionality has really made CCBS-based sets shine - this reflects through my MOCs, as I rarely now build figures without a gearbox of some variety! While figures without functions aren't inherently bad, I do personally think the addition of functionality makes them much more interesting.

[CabooseBM]

Functions are a fun idea for more set style mocs, but I find they get in the way of shaping and filling in.

[Logan McOwen]

Well... it can be hard to integrate a gearbox aesthetically, and while I don't think it's to, necessary to do so (at least from the back), it can be done. And it's worth it, because you can make your MOCs move!

Edited July 15, 2015 by LewiMOC

[Aanchir]

I honestly wish more constraction MOCs incorporated functions (whether they're particularly creative ones or ones borrowed from official sets). With the amount of praise Bionicle sets (both G1 and G2) get for their action features, you'd expect the fan community would be seeking to emulate that in their own creations. And because so few MOCists did, a lot of the nostalgic yearning for action features in the later years of Bionicle and the earlier years of Hero Factory ended up feeling a bit like "do as I say, not as I do".

I will admit that I'm often as guilty of not pushing myself to include action features in my MOCs as anybody. I'm much better at design than I am at engineering, so the few functions in my own MOCs are usually copied from existing sets. The new sets (which incorporate dynamic action features without sacrificing articulation) have definitely given me something to strive for! But I'm still a long way from being able to design an action feature of my own, particularly one as unique as the action features of Lord of Skull Spiders or many G1 creatures and vehicles.

I was really impressed when I attended BrickUniverse in Raleigh, North Carolina this year when I got to meet Imatron (the admin of Mask of Destiny). I'd never seen most of his MOCs before, but while their shaping and textures weren't always the most refined, he's the first builder I've ever met who incorporates creative action features into nearly all of his models. He even had some remote-control models which he happily let other attendees try out for themselves. He's a really friendly guy and I hope to see him and his MOCs again at future conventions.

[Logan McOwen]

Yeah, designing one's own functions (past a gearbox) is tricky, I'll concede to that. But once you figure something out, run wit it! You never know what might happen!

[Nekchir]

Again, when has this become about "only" using CCBS parts? The vast majority of larger CCBS models Technic parts in conjunction with CCBS parts. The point of CCBS isn't to be used to the exclusion of all else, but rather to create a much more reliable foundation for constraction building (as opposed to the classic Bionicle parts, which lacked that sort of organized system and as a result cycled through new parts at an unsustainable pace).

Because the title of this topic reads: "Original Bionicle vs CCBS".

[Aanchir]

Because the title of this topic reads: "Original Bionicle vs CCBS".

Yes, but nobody's insisting "original Bionicle" means "no Technic", so why do they insist CCBS means "no Technic"? Both categories of parts are in the Technic family, and both categories of parts are DESIGNED for compatibility with other Technic parts. So needing to use Technic to do certain things is not a failing of either system.

It's very difficult to make a larger model exclusively from EITHER category of parts. CCBS does give you more freedom to make smaller and simpler models without basic (non-constraction) Technic elements, whereas Bionicle models that didn't use basic Technic were mostly limited to small and repetitive villager-sized builds (like McToran or Av-Matoran). But a lot of people seem to be assuming that means CCBS should be able to do ANYTHING without basic Technic or it will have failed as a system, which is just silly. From the beginning, larger CCBS sets have used basic Technic to add structure and functionality to models, just like System sets do all the time. That's the reason all the beams 6M or larger have pin holes in the first place.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Aanchir

[vexorian]

None of my CCBS pieces have broken yet.

Even throwbot sockets break constantly. And it only got worse as 1st gen Bionicle progressed.

Things like the ability to build larger/more varied stuff are subjective. But Part quality is an objective measure and in part quality CCBS curb stomps first gen Bionicle.

[Mandate]

None of my CCBS pieces have broken yet.

Even throwbot sockets break constantly. And it only got worse as 1st gen Bionicle progressed.

Things like the ability to build larger/more varied stuff are subjective. But Part quality is an objective measure and in part quality CCBS curb stomps first gen Bionicle.

I'm not so sure of that. Now, I will admit before I say this that I don't have as extensive a collection of Gen 1 sets as other people will (nor have I had mine used for 15 entire years), but my Tahu Nuva hasn't got a single crack in any of his joints, the same of which cannot be said for my copy of Hordika Nuju whose sockets are very cracked, although not broken. I'm going to commit heresy too and say that people don't give the 2008 joints enough credit. Only one of my 2008 sockets (of which I do have a fairly extensive collection) has lost friction, the rest are tight as nails. For every socket I have that has cracked there's 5 CCBS joints that have lost friction. Master Lewa was barely with me five seconds before his arms started swinging downwards without it being the result of the gearbox.

CCBS pieces may be damn near destructible but I've had far more problems with them than I have with Gen 1 parts so far.

[Voxovan]

Almost all of my sockets from 2008-2010 are broken (except the gray hand connectors, which is... interesting), I also have a lot of the older long "thigh" pieces (introduced with Visorak) with some cracks in them, but NONE of my hand connectorst from 2001-2007 (except the lime ones, obviously) are broken, and I do a lot of crazy stuff with them (like putting the part with axle hole into the ball cup and sticking an axle through the circle holes on the sides of the ball cup). And they still have friction, while a lot of CCBS bones loses it after some time (my Gali and Pohatu can barely stand on their own because of that...)

[BBBeavarr]

Having only a scant assortment of CCBS and no Bricklink account, my very few Mocs are 99% Gen 1. I've tried branching out a little into CCBS, but I don't quite have the hang of it and my attempts are extremely clunky (I've got about a hundred various assemblies of 5-10 parts sitting around the house ).

Personally, I never liked Hero Factory much, but I think the theme needed to happen so that Lego could make the CCBS system, which is much more aesthetically pleasing than Gen 1 (IMO). A lot of the Hero Factory sets were poorly made (cough, Fire Lord, cough), but the new Bionicles look absolutely gorgeous. I've seen awesome CCBS builds and awesome Gen 1 builds, so for me both systems come to a tie.

[MakutaOfWar]

It's odd to see that some people haven't had problems with G1 sockets post-08 but have had problems with CCBS. Hm. Personally, my post-08 sockets always broke. *Looks at complete 08 Nuva Team on shelf with despair* Prior to that, and Hahli Mahri aside, I've only had like two connectors break, one was even half of the side of the arch(which was odd because I have no idea how that would happen). CCBS on the other hand, I haven't had more then one issue, which was a silver hand losing friction, which was my fault from removing it and placing it over n over n over again. ;-;

[BBBeavarr]

It's odd to see that some people haven't had problems with G1 sockets post-08 but have had problems with CCBS. Hm. Personally, my post-08 sockets always broke. *Looks at complete 08 Nuva Team on shelf with despair* Prior to that, and Hahli Mahri aside, I've only had like two connectors break, one was even half of the side of the arch(which was odd because I have no idea how that would happen). CCBS on the other hand, I haven't had more then one issue, which was a silver hand losing friction, which was my fault from removing it and placing it over n over n over again. ;-;

Did anyone else ever have problems with the integrity of the neon green parts? I bought Ehlek way back then and every single darn one of his joints is snapped and cracked. Same goes for Vastus's fists.

[MakutaOfWar]

Did anyone else ever have problems with the integrity of the neon green parts? I bought Ehlek way back then and every single darn one of his joints is snapped and cracked. Same goes for Vastus's fists.

Well Vastus was post-08 so that's where the problem is at. I haven't bought Ehlek but I do have trans ice-blue and fire-orange(both those color names are probably wrong but I'm just guessing) from 06-07 and so far they're fine.

[Aanchir]

Did anyone else ever have problems with the integrity of the neon green parts? I bought Ehlek way back then and every single darn one of his joints is snapped and cracked. Same goes for Vastus's fists.

There was a big issue with the lime green joints in 2007. Apparently a lot of them didn't cool properly when they came off the mold, which made them extra brittle (compared to other colors of joint that year, anyway). From my experience, Glatorian fists and most other 2008–2010 ball cup pieces were prone to breakage regardless of color. I think part of the point to the 2008 redesign of all the ball cup elements was to add additional friction. But as a side effect, it made them a lot more brittle. I wouldn't consider that a worthwhile trade-off.

As for my 2001–2007 sets, some of the ones I've played with the most (like the ones from Toa Mata Kopaka) have had issues with joints breaking AND losing friction. Even some of my friction joints with the rubber inserts have lost friction over time! With regular Y-joints, at least, I usually have spares to replace them with. 7M double ball cups, which I've had some structural issues with since they were first introduced in 2005, are harder to replace, since certain colors only came in one or two sets and they mostly didn't appear in bulk parts buckets.

The friction of my CCBS parts has generally held up without issue. If any did start to lose friction, I'd probably just start using them in places that didn't need to support so much weight. That's better than having them crack or shatter, which in most cases reduces a part to near-useless.

Another note: when a ball cup does start to lose friction, it can sometimes mean it's been used to support more weight or inertia than it should in the first place. So it's useful to either use friction joints to support heavier parts of a model or to build some other kind of suspension like pistons into your larger MOCs! This is true for any era of parts.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Aanchir

[MakutaOfWar]

Oh, I thought by neon green he meant trans, not lime. XD Whoops.

[BBBeavarr]

There was a big issue with the lime green joints in 2007. Apparently a lot of them didn't cool properly when they came off the mold, which made them extra brittle (compared to other colors of joint that year, anyway). From my experience, Glatorian fists and most other 2008–2010 ball cup pieces were prone to breakage regardless of color. I think part of the point to the 2008 redesign of all the ball cup elements was to add additional friction. But as a side effect, it made them a lot more brittle. I wouldn't consider that a worthwhile trade-off.

As for my 2001–2007 sets, some of the ones I've played with the most (like the ones from Toa Mata Kopaka) have had issues with joints breaking AND losing friction. Even some of my friction joints with the rubber inserts have lost friction over time! With regular Y-joints, at least, I usually have spares to replace them with. 7M double ball cups, which I've had some structural issues with since they were first introduced in 2005, are harder to replace, since certain colors only came in one or two sets and they mostly didn't appear in bulk parts buckets.

The friction of my CCBS parts has generally held up without issue. If any did start to lose friction, I'd probably just start using them in places that didn't need to support so much weight. That's better than having them crack or shatter, which in most cases reduces a part to near-useless.

Another note: when a ball cup does start to lose friction, it can sometimes mean it's been used to support more weight or inertia than it should in the first place. So it's useful to either use friction joints to support heavier parts of a model or to build some other kind of suspension like pistons into your larger MOCs! This is true for any era of parts.

Yeah, I've had breaking issues with pre-07 parts; it's just that the lime green joints in particular were horrid. Cooling problems would definitely do that. I've been very impressed with the joints on my CCBS pieces; they're very robust and sturdy. And actually, now that you mention it, I have had a bunch of glatorian fists break. Fortunately I don't tend to disassemble many of my sets, so the majority of my pieces are intact. I do have a problem though on one of my MOCs with a lack of friction in the leg. Gotta replace those...

Oh, I thought by neon green he meant trans, not lime. XD Whoops.

Gonna take me a little while to learn all of the color types, lol.

[Aanchir]

Gonna take me a little while to learn all of the color types, lol.

This chart (which I recently updated) might be useful, though it uses the official names (in which the color of Vastus's hands would be Bright Yellowish Green). There are a lot of "fan names" for colors like Lime Green, Metru Red, Keetorange, etc. as well.

[Logan McOwen]

Ah yes, the LimeGate. Dark times. I hope we don't have a repeat of that...

[Gwideon]

Ok I personally prefer ccbs to the original BIONICLE system. First it's more versatile and it's easier to make unique forms for charecters. Second while I am nostalgic for the original parts ccbs just doesn't break as often.

[MarkSurge9411]

It all comes down to what you prefer, or what you would like to make.

[Lego Dino 500]

There was a big issue with the lime green joints in 2007. Apparently a lot of them didn't cool properly when they came off the mold, which made them extra brittle (compared to other colors of joint that year, anyway). From my experience, Glatorian fists and most other 2008–2010 ball cup pieces were prone to breakage regardless of color. I think part of the point to the 2008 redesign of all the ball cup elements was to add additional friction. But as a side effect, it made them a lot more brittle. I wouldn't consider that a worthwhile trade-off.

As for my 2001–2007 sets, some of the ones I've played with the most (like the ones from Toa Mata Kopaka) have had issues with joints breaking AND losing friction. Even some of my friction joints with the rubber inserts have lost friction over time! With regular Y-joints, at least, I usually have spares to replace them with. 7M double ball cups, which I've had some structural issues with since they were first introduced in 2005, are harder to replace, since certain colors only came in one or two sets and they mostly didn't appear in bulk parts buckets.

The friction of my CCBS parts has generally held up without issue. If any did start to lose friction, I'd probably just start using them in places that didn't need to support so much weight. That's better than having them crack or shatter, which in most cases reduces a part to near-useless.

Another note: when a ball cup does start to lose friction, it can sometimes mean it's been used to support more weight or inertia than it should in the first place. So it's useful to either use friction joints to support heavier parts of a model or to build some other kind of suspension like pistons into your larger MOCs! This is true for any era of parts.

It wasn't necessarily just 2008 lime joints. Literally every single OG Bionicle socket piece I have is broken, save for a few Av-Matoran limbs and Mata feet which have yet to meet their fate. As for the torso and ball limb pieces? Still perfectly intact, despite the constant use except for a unfortunate Hordika limb from Gadunka. Luckily, the CCBS balls and sockets are a lot more durable and over engineered.

[TwistLaw]

CCBS loses friction in a heartbeat.

They're both immature systems while we wait for the perfect one that will put action figures on the same plane as bricks.

[Shakar]

CCBS loses friction in a heartbeat.

They're both immature systems while we wait for the perfect one that will put action figures on the same plane as bricks.

That would be CCBS, potentially. We just need a larger plethora of recolours and some new bone elements that put a spin on things, like it happened in 2012.