Blakbird

[MOC REVIEW] Nathanael Kuipers' Predator

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There was a lot of anticipation over Nathanael Kuipers' new supercar called "Predator", and I got the chance to build it over this past weekend. There is a lot of contrast between this car and his earlier "Concept Car". The previous effort was minimalist in design, intended to be used as a sturdy platform for customization. With that in mind, it had a fairly basic body and a very modular construction. The Predator, on the other hand, is fully developed with all the functions and attention to detail that you'd expect to see in a supercar. Another point of comparison is the instructions. The Concept Car instructions were made to intentionally mimic real LEGO instructions in every way, right down to the blue background, the rotation arrows, and the huge number of steps. They looked amazing, but they took years to create. The Predator instructions are what you'd more traditionally expect from a MOC. They are less excruciatingly detailed, but I still had no trouble at all following them.

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Interestingly, there are some similarities with the new 42039 Le Mans racer which I assume Nathanael knew nothing about when he was designing this car. Besides the dominant white color, which is in itself unusual, they share wheel hubs, the new gearbox parts, and gull wing doors. Even the parts used to actuate the doors have an interesting similarity which will be discussed later.

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Speaking of the gearbox, this is the most unique part of this new car. The 6-position gearbox has 5 forward speeds with reverse, in a shifting arrangement used by Crowkillers to match real cars. This particular gearbox uses the new clutch parts, but also arranges them in a very unique vertical style. This takes up less space and allows more room in the cabin so the seats don't have to be so far apart. The shifting is done remotely using a lever between the seats which connects to the rear vertical gearbox via a clever mechanical interconnect.

The suspension is also worthy of note because it uses realistic caster and kingpin inclination. You can actually tell the difference when pushing the car because the front wheels tend to straighten themselves out.

Rounding out the mechanical features are a pair of gull-wing doors actuated by a smooth system of worm gears on the rear quarter panel.

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Let's start with a look at the parts. By my count, this model has 1797 parts which is actually not that many compared to some of the other supercars out there. This is certainly not due to a lack of features. This efficiency of parts usage is one of the hallmarks of the model. Parts of note are the rear wheel hubs, varied suspension arms, panels, and the large number of frames.

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In these first two images you can see the heavy usage of 5x7 frames which contributes to the overall rigidity of the model. This is most sturdy supercar I own and can easily be picked up with one hand from nearly any direction.

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The first mechanical part of the build is the gearbox. You can see the three parallel vertical gear stacks with the new red clutch gears and driving ring. One small issue I had with the build is that the center 24 tooth spur gear which you can see at the top of the image is adjacent to a 3L pin with stop bush. The teeth of the gear can scrub against the bush causing a lot of friction. The fit is very close, so if you just flex the two assemblies apart a bit, the friction goes away. I had to continually come back to this detail during my build to keep things running smoothly.

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Next up is the rear suspension. This is a simple double wishbone type with long arms (7L). You can see a rear diffuser tucked between the arms. The suspension is built as a module and then tucked in behind the gearbox.

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After adding a few more frames for support, the V-8 engine is installed. This is a mid-engine arrangement with the engine behind the seats. The shift lever is also observed at this time, although it is not connected to anything yet.

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The next thing to build is the front suspension and steering assembly. The first image shows the rigid box which will house everything. The shocks are mounted in an unusual lateral configuration, but they do not use pushrods. The second pair of images show the caster angle and kingpin inclination. The model manages to achieve this while still using standard control arms.

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The hub is built from one of the new hubs parts introduced in 42000, but it is NOT the steered hub part. Instead the traditional rear hub part is used and built up into a complex assembly which will mate with the angled control arms. It is quite a complex arrangement. Where else have I seen a complex built-up hub? Hmmm. Oh, I remember. It reminds me of the front hub from the 8674 Ferrari, also designed by Nathanael.

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Now the front suspension is integrated into the model. The front and rear chassis are very stiff at this point, but the middle portion which is notched for the seats is a significant soft point. Next the dash and steering wheel are installed.

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Time to start looking at the shifting system. The first image shows the shift gate as seen from the bottom (the whole dark gray assembly slides front to back with the shift lever). This is the system used to ensure you can't select two gears at the same time. The gray towballs slip into pockets in the 1x1 corner panels (the towballs move side to side with the shift lever). The end of the red axle you see in the middle is the bottom of the shift lever. It pushes the carriage back and forth.

The second image shows part of the linkage which connects the sliding carriage under the passenger floor to the shift driver in the rear.

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The following image makes the shift mechanism much easier to understand. The orange lever is the shift lever. It is located between the seats and used to shift gears. It pivots on the longitudinal orange axle. Movement side to side makes the vertical orange connector in the rear contact the green carriage. The green carriage slides side to side and pushed the red shifter to align with one of the three vertical blue gear stacks. Movement of the lever front to back slides the yellow carriage. This carriage slides on axles fixed to the body. As it moves front to back, to rotates the linkage on the transverse axle. Finally, the yellow cranks in the rear lift the red shifter up and down to engage the driving rings. The pockets in the yellow carriage lock into the yellow towballs, allowing only 6 possible positions. The fact that the new driving rings require only one click to engage makes it very easy to tell whether or not a gear has been engaged. The mechanism is a little bit fiddly since you have to be sure that the lever is fully left or right (or center) before sliding it forward or back. If you try to force it, you'll break off one of the corner panels on the slider.

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Now we'll add the windshield and the floorboards.

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Now we'll start building the mechanism for the doors. The doors are driven by a crank connected to a worm gear. I am very interested to know why this 32068.giffairly rare suspension part was used to support the worm gears. It seems like this 42003.jpgmuch more common part would have worked just as well, but the 42039 actually uses the very same part for the same purpose. It seems possible that this part is made from a more rigid plastic and is therefore more suitable.

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Now we'll install the doors, the rear bumper, and the rest of the body parts. There are a lot of panels here, but actually quite few flex axles and these sizes have recently become widely available to finding them is not a problem. I especially like the look of the rear end.

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I really enjoyed this build, and I like how the car looks and functions. It is distinct in form and function from my many other supercars which is important to me. Nathanael has certainly come a long way from his 2005 effort of making one from the Silver Champion. It seems like a logical progression of his building skills. Is it the best supercar ever? I'm not sure I'm quite comfortable saying that, although off hand I can't think of one that's any better. It is certainly among a small group of the very best, and I'd recommend the build to anyone interested in Technic.

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Nice review. It was good to see the gearbox explained as I didn't really understand it till now. The chassis also looks very rigid which is great. This looks like a must build for me sometime in the future

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First of all thank you for the great review. The model deserves it...

The doors are driven by a crank connected to a worm gear. I am very interested to know why this 32068.giffairly rare suspension part was used to support the worm gears. It seems like this 42003.jpgmuch more common part would have worked just as well, but the 42039 actually uses the very same part for the same purpose. It seems possible that this part is made from a more rigid plastic and is therefore more suitable.

no, this has nothing to do with rigidity of plastic... this part is used on purpose - as always - by Nathanael... the part "Axle and Pin Connector Perpendicular 3L with 2 Pin Holes" (42003) would not work because then the 24th gear would no completely fit in between - the gear always scratches very slightly on both 42003 - i just tried it to play safe... take a look at the BI (i hope it is ok to post this small pic but i doubt anyone could build the car only from this pic ;-):

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The gear can only spin freely and safe without any contact cause of the notch below of the pin hole of part "Axle and Pin Connector Perpendicular 3L with Pin Hole" (32068)... so - again as always with nathanaels models - there must exactly this part been used and it is the best solution for this purpose - and exactly THIS - in combination with the overall design quality and some innovation - makes the Predator IMHO the best supercar i know... some other cars have more features, are looking good as well (or even better) and are also designed very good... but the design and part usage of the predator is simply a perfection-level i never saw before - neither in official TLG cars no in supercar MOCs... but of course different people different opinions - it's just IMHO!

Edited by Kumbbl

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Great review, very detailed, good photos and renders as usual. It is a pleasure to read your reviews :thumbup:

And of course a great MOC, I to especially like to look from the back. It reminds me of the audi TT.

In answer to your comment on the black part usage: your suggestion for the double crossblock won't work, the teeth of the 24T gear will rub against the edge of the first hole. The old steeringpart is the only option to use here.

From the pictures I always get the feeling that the model is quite square (especially the sides). How is that in real life?

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You can see a rear diffuser tucked between the arms.

Do you mean differential? Or is a 'diffuser' some other mechanism that I'm not familiar with?

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Hmmm what is that other supercar in the background of the last two photos...

Edited by Nalyd997

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Just finished it:

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I want to like to cite a comment from another thread:

I've almost finished building this beauty, and I can already say that this is easily the best MOC I've ever built (and I've built a lot!). The car itself obviously looks amazing (the pictures don't do it justice, you have to see it in 'real life'), but more importantly the quality of its design is unbelievable. The only one to even slightly come close to achieving this level of perfection in design is Madoca, IMO. Not a single part is needlessly used, every feature is stunningly implemented (especially the gearbox and front axle are technical marvels to behold), there are plenty of novel and very clever tricks used, and it's simply all-in-all an absolute joy to build. A must-build for every Technic fan. The bar for supercar MOCs, or even Technic MOCs in general, has been raised spectacularly!

P.S.: If TLG ever started a Technic UCS series, this car should be the first one in it. Brilliant work by Nathanaël, truly. Major kudos.

I would underline every word of this posting and confirm every word of this testimony, really every word, without any exception.

Five additions:

- In the other predator thread one asked for the stiffness of the chassis: Never seen such a rigid and sturdy studdless supercar chassis

- Best paneling i ever saw on a technic car - regardless if an official or a MOC model, period. It has a real flow, exactly as Nathanael describes onto his website...

- This is a build which really often puts a grin in your face

- The BI are without any error and easy to follow - at least for reasonably experienced builders

- This is the supercar we (well, at least i ;-) are awaiting from TLG for years... i can not imagine that TLG could top this model in any aspect without inventing complete new parts (e.g. clutch gears with different sizes) - if you make a professional box and printed (and on some places simplified and more detailled) BI then you could produce it without changes for the market, at least as an UCS set - and i'm sure it would be a big hit.

Edited by Kumbbl

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Great review and MOC. These supercars keep getting better and better.

@Kumbbl: Awesome work on the Predator Supercar.

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I built my model in white and red instead of orange. I loved the build. The gearbox mechanism is great, although there seems to be a little more resistance in 1st and reverse than there should be. I have built and rebuilt the gearbox and it is still the same. The front suspension is very unique, but it seems to have too much play in it back and forth between the wheels which I think is what is resulting in the front wheels of my car slightly rubbing the wheel arches when steered. I triple checked the instructions and I have everything constructed properly. It is doing this when the suspension is not compressed which is kind of annoying when just rolling it around. I have also tore down my model a few times and changed out all of my shocks with new ones and my model doesn't quite rest evenly, it's kind of on a slight upwards angle. I am thinking about modding the rear end because the suspension seems squishy. This has been a great build though. I will post up some pictures tomorrow.

Has anyone else who has built their model experienced any of these issues?

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You must have made some errors because my model rests Perfect evenly. My my front wheels doesn't rub on the mudguards, neither when moving straight ahead nor when steered the rear suspension isn't squishy but it is quite responsive...

About the resistence in 1st and Reverse: yeah, a little bit but the Car drives well in these gears too. You have to be very carefully when building the gearbox and i spend almost overall an hour to ensure several times that all is running smoothly...

Post some pics about your front suspension issues...

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The wheels don't rub the arches when going straight, only when steered. The left wheel rubs a little more than the right one does when it is steered towards the right. I even replaced the flex axles thinking maybe they were too short, but it is the same. It's not a major problem, but it is present. I'll take a few pictures when I get home.

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Nice work identifying it from just a chassis in the background. It is there because I am working on instructions.

Because I have seen the link (beam) to the gearbox rings. :) And I'm really waiting an instruction for Crowkillers Assasin.

P.S. Thank You very much for the review, Blakbird.

Edited by ifilin

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edit: removed inappropriate comment

Edited by Lipko

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I am very interested to know why this 32068.giffairly rare suspension part was used to support the worm gears. It seems like this 42003.jpgmuch more common part would have worked just as well, but the 42039 actually uses the very same part for the same purpose. It seems possible that this part is made from a more rigid plastic and is therefore more suitable.

if you replace the parts by the more common parts with the central round hole, you will find that the edges of the central hole can rub the teeth of the 24t gear.

Whether this happens depends on the gear though. Just try it out with a few 24t gears.

but also arranges them in a very unique vertical style. This takes up less space and allows more room in the cabin so the seats don't have to be so far apart.

The seats don't look closer to each other than in any other supercar with similar functionality. So I think it doesn't hold. It works in real life, but not in Lego where the slider mechanism (whcih is genius by the way) takes up the same, if not more, room than the actual gearbox.

Anyhow, great review of a - so it seems - very interesting MOC. I'm surprised the vertical gearbox is even possible (both mechanism-wise and space-wise), and works so well. It seems to be quite a feat of engineering.

The model itself looks great as well by the way. It has a bit of a Koenigsegg vibe to me, and I love the orange and dark-gray details.

The review is also very extensive and covers every aspect quite well. So great job (both writing and photography) :)

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if you replace the parts by the more common parts with the central round hole, you will find that the edges of the central hole can rub the teeth of the 24t gear.

Whether this happens depends on the gear though. Just try it out with a few 24t gears.

The seats don't look closer to each other than in any other supercar with similar functionality. So I think it doesn't hold.

I have tried it with 5 gears. All of them rub... IMO this ist an illegal design. Only using this Old steering part is save...

Seats: they aren't closer, you are completely right. The linkage mechanism needs nearly the same width than a typical 6-gear-gearbox. But nevertheless the whole arrangement looks much cleaner as with the gearbox between the seats... Overall it is the first real and really well and reliable working transaxle solution i saw in a lego Car...

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While the gearbox is an absolutely incredible design and idea, the downfall is that it really buries the engine into the cab of the car and doesn't allow for a larger size engine than a V8. The front of the engine is already somewhat between the seats now to the point where the driver cannot say hello to the passenger. :laugh: The wheelbase also feels just maybe a little bit too long. But this is just being picky. I think this will open the eyes of some other builders to come up with clever new mechanical gearbox feats like the Predator has incorporated.

The seats don't look closer to each other than in any other supercar with similar functionality. So I think it doesn't hold. It works in real life, but not in Lego where the slider mechanism (whcih is genius by the way) takes up the same, if not more, room than the actual gearbox.

While it does take 7 studs of space between the seats, the nice thing is that it is lower to the floorboard where it should be.

Edited by Meatman

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Very very nice review ! this is 1 of the few supercars that offers new and refreshing idieas . i almost felt like being a kid again, when i saw this :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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I built my model in white and red instead of orange. I loved the build. The gearbox mechanism is great, although there seems to be a little more resistance in 1st and reverse than there should be. I have built and rebuilt the gearbox and it is still the same. The front suspension is very unique, but it seems to have too much play in it back and forth between the wheels which I think is what is resulting in the front wheels of my car slightly rubbing the wheel arches when steered. I triple checked the instructions and I have everything constructed properly. It is doing this when the suspension is not compressed which is kind of annoying when just rolling it around. I have also tore down my model a few times and changed out all of my shocks with new ones and my model doesn't quite rest evenly, it's kind of on a slight upwards angle. I am thinking about modding the rear end because the suspension seems squishy. This has been a great build though. I will post up some pictures tomorrow.

Has anyone else who has built their model experienced any of these issues?

Sounds like you may have a dead spring or 2 in your rear shocks which could cause all kinds of problems.. Unfortunately it is hard to tell if a spring is poor until you have it installed and get some weight on it... The front of the car is in fact just a tad higher than the rear(maybe 1/2 or 3/4 of a stud).. I noticed this too when building it, but once the body was installed, it became much less noticeable.. As far as the wheels rubbing, mine are pretty close, but don't quite rub, but as I have said before, it could be an issue with your shocks... Now the gearbox, I am not sure about.. Mine moves pretty smoothly in all gears.. Not saying that you have done this, but I highly recommend NOT pushing down on the rear suspension while moving the vehicle or it will bind on you... My wife wants to go shopping tomorrow and we'll be down in your area.. Shoot me an email and maybe we can hook up and compare cars and see what the gearbox problem might be... I'll bring my model along with me...

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I built my model in white and red instead of orange. I loved the build. The gearbox mechanism is great, although there seems to be a little more resistance in 1st and reverse than there should be. I have built and rebuilt the gearbox and it is still the same. The front suspension is very unique, but it seems to have too much play in it back and forth between the wheels which I think is what is resulting in the front wheels of my car slightly rubbing the wheel arches when steered. I triple checked the instructions and I have everything constructed properly. It is doing this when the suspension is not compressed which is kind of annoying when just rolling it around. I have also tore down my model a few times and changed out all of my shocks with new ones and my model doesn't quite rest evenly, it's kind of on a slight upwards angle. I am thinking about modding the rear end because the suspension seems squishy. This has been a great build though. I will post up some pictures tomorrow.

Has anyone else who has built their model experienced any of these issues?

I have the exact same issue with 1st and reverse. I do not have the steering or suspension issues though. The friction in those two gears is causing one of the CV axles in my differential to keep coming out of the Tan bevel gear. Not sure if this is a symptom or the cause though.

Edited by Osuharding1

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