Pelly's Paradise Day Two: Two Wild and Crazy Guys

[Tamamono]

And this is what your entire argument is based off of. We don't even know if there IS an insane cop. You are just conveniently assuming that there is one, and that it is blackbeards shag instead of Dragonator's mask.

I thought my entire argument was based off of me knowing I'm town? We don't know there's a living sane cop either. You're just conveniently assuming that you're sane.

You need to wake up and smell the roses, Brickelodeon. There are more possibilities than what you've convinced yourself of.

To everyone else - who are we thinking for a lynch? I want to lynch fhomess, but I don't know if enough people will get behind that. I don't think the vig action is of much help anymore.

[Shadows]

I realize I'm being lynched today, and if it means it will "verify" this cop - great. But as a townie I know that there's a better use for today's lynch (like lynching fhomess).

To be honest, killing the redirector role is the best reason to lynch you, it's an incredibly dangerous role that the scum can't be allowed to control. Killing the vig means the town has nothing left to fight back with except voting. Making sure it can't be redirected makes it potentially useful. Simple as that.

On top of that, verifying or denying the cop's sanity is a pretty good side effect of the whole thing.

I don't like kills to test theories, but I don't see much alternative here. I know that my own loyalty is under suspicion, so I will offer to either choose whatever hat the town agrees on, or not choose at all and take whatever is left at the end of the day tomorrow, assuming I live that long.

[Brickelodeon]

Oh and Vote: Tamamono(Tamamono).

Think about this before you vote, people. Tammo was investigated as scum. We have no reason to believe that this investigation was inaccurate other than that Tammo "knows that he is town". The choice is obvious here. If we lynch him and he turns up scum, we will know that Shadows is also scum because that would mean he had lied about the whole Dragonator cop thing. If he turns up town, we know that the cop we have now is insane and will get reverse investigations. Lynching a townie is never the thing to do, but we have concrete evidence that Tammo is scum. Not some "he's acting scummy" crap, actual investigator results.

[jluck]

This conversation has gone far enough down this path. We've pretty much ignored every other candidate since we've been focused on tamamono. Let's keep him in mind, but can we please discuss other candidates? Like fhomess? Because if we don't plan to lynch him, we at least need to be sure we control his action tonight. And if he's town, that would dictate how the other night actions are used.

[Tamamono]

This conversation has gone far enough down this path. We've pretty much ignored every other candidate since we've been focused on tamamono. Let's keep him in mind, but can we please discuss other candidates? Like fhomess? Because if we don't plan to lynch him, we at least need to be sure we control his action tonight. And if he's town, that would dictate how the other night actions are used.

Yeah, this is a good point. Even if we don't lynch fhomess, we still need to keep the vig action in check. I asked Brick in private to, even if he doesn't trust me, steal the action since he has the ability to do so, but of course that was just another scum ploy of mine, and he wouldn't listen.

I'm willing to redirect him tonight if need be.

[Brickelodeon]

Walter confirmed that if the thief steals someone's action, and then dies overnight. Both the thief and the stolen action will be lost. The scum wants to be able to kill two birds with one stone, so that's probably not a good idea unless I have the doctor using his ability on me.

Since I've fired all my shots, I will let go of Tammo long enough to discuss other candidates...

[Shadows]

Think about this before you vote, people. Tammo was investigated as scum. We have no reason to believe that this investigation was inaccurate other than that Tammo "knows that he is town". The choice is obvious here. If we lynch him and he turns up scum, we will know that Shadows is also scum because that would mean he had lied about the whole Dragonator cop thing.

Wait a minute, how does that work? If Tammo is scum, it confirms that you're not insane, it doesn't mean Draggy wasn't a cop, he absolutely was one. Have no idea if he was sane or not because he died before getting to use it, but that's not the point.

You're not making sense there. That worries me about your other judgements.

[Walter Kovacs]

While I am not opposed to lynching Tammo, I think there is enough doubt today to delay his lynch.

In my mind, Shadows is a better candidate. I can see no scenario where Draggy claims Cop to Shadows, and then gets killed that night. Shadows even said it himself: Draggy made a poor Scum target, unless the scum were removing a powerful item from the Town's hands.

Vote: Starlord (Shadows)

[Brickelodeon]

Well guys, I'm going to bed. It's been a lot of fun (also really stressful), and I hope you lynch the real scum while I'm gone. Perhaps I have been too consumed with lynching Tammo to think clearly, I will think it over tonight. That doesn't me he isn't scum though .

[Shadows]

In my mind, Shadows is a better candidate. I can see no scenario where Draggy claims Cop to Shadows, and then gets killed that night. Shadows even said it himself: Draggy made a poor Scum target, unless the scum were removing a powerful item from the Town's hands.

Killing me doesn't prove anything or keep the scum from getting a valuable action.

Vote: The Joker (Tamamono)

As for Draggy, the only conclusion I can come to is that his inactivity got him killed. Best I've come up with so far.

[Dragonfire]

There's simply no way I would act how I did as scum. Revealing the vig was a pro-town move and you know it. There was no reason for me to, and to put my head out there like that and open myself up for investigation - that would be suicide.

Read Shadows' post, Day One.

I'm still in the camp of voting off the vigilante. Even though fhomess took it for seemingly honorable reasons since everyone jumped for a costume and ignored the helmet until there were only a few people left, it can still be dangerous. Looking back, I'm thinking that fhomess might actually be town and that he grabbed it since he didn't want Darkdragon or Dragonfire to get the helmet, as they were the only two other people who had not selected. If we do keep the helmet, we shouldn't all jump to claim costumes as soon as they come up. We should select someone early on, within the first couple of hours, and then select our costumes accordingly so when the helmet comes up, the right person can take it.

I don't think we should lynch fhomess, but I do think we should control his ability somewhat.

Let me just say: If Tammo is town (which I don't think he is), we will lose one townie and one hat that could potentially be used by the scum for a TON of evil. If he is scum, we have a clear path to another scum (Shadows), and we also gain the knowledge that we have the real cop hat. The pros far outweigh the cons. Don't get me wrong, I never want to lynch a townie, but I think the chances of Tammo being scum are much higher than they are of him being town.

Good point.

Shadows even said it himself: Draggy made a poor Scum target, unless the scum were removing a powerful item from the Town's hands.

And this is why I wouldn't lynch Shadows today. He's practically setting himself up for a lynch and making himself look Scummy.

To be honest, killing the redirector role is the best reason to lynch you, it's an incredibly dangerous role that the scum can't be allowed to control. Killing the vig means the town has nothing left to fight back with except voting. Making sure it can't be redirected makes it potentially useful. Simple as that.

On top of that, verifying or denying the cop's sanity is a pretty good side effect of the whole thing.

I don't like kills to test theories, but I don't see much alternative here. I know that my own loyalty is under suspicion, so I will offer to either choose whatever hat the town agrees on, or not choose at all and take whatever is left at the end of the day tomorrow, assuming I live that long.

Town or scum, you summed that up perfectly.

There was no reason for anyone involved in the Shadows/Dragonator cop hat to lie.

Imagine Shadows and Tammo are both scum. Brick comes in today with a guilty report on Tammo. To save his buddy, Shadows lies that a dead player was the Cop; this throws doubt on the sanity of Brick's costume and gives Tammo a loophole. Surely that's a reason to lie?

If we lynch him and he turns up scum, we will know that Shadows is also scum because that would mean he had lied about the whole Dragonator cop thing.

This isn't correct. Have you considered the possibility that Dragonator was the insane cop and Shadows is town?

Tammo, I'm really sorry if you're town. I've looked at everything said today and I feel that it is logically better to lynch you than anyone else today. Lynching you may prove or disprove the cop's sanity (unless, of course, he is paranoid), and also remove a potentially dangerous role from the mix. So without further ado,

Vote: The Joker (Tamamono)

[mostlytechnic]

There's simply no way I would act how I did as scum. Revealing the vig was a pro-town move and you know it. There was no reason for me to, and to put my head out there like that and open myself up for investigation - that would be suicide. If you think I'm such a good player as scum, then believe me when I tell you that play like that is not my play. I have been completely committed to ensuring that this town wins the game. I've said it all throughout - my actions speak for themselves. You can't name one scummy thing I've done except that I "didn't try to get a block together" even though it's unrealistic to do so on the first day and I pretty much started anyway.

Is mafia a game of mechanics and night actions, or is it a game of behavior? This is the same mistake that was made in Party Lines - the Speaker assumed that the vig was real and dismissed the possibility of there being something more than just the mechanics. See what's right in front of your eyes, and evaluate me for what I've done, not for what a faulty night action says about me.

Ok, finally read through all the fighting. I'm certain that the scum are having a blast watching town fight like this (even if there's 1 or more scum involved, it's still keeping everyone focused on one point).

Tamo - the game is a game of both. You and brick are BOTH ignoring things. Yes, lynches can be used to verify things and help us catch scum later. You can't expect them to necessarily get caught right away. And so lynching you could verify a cop (it'd guide us to whether the hat we have is sane or insane, although you are correct that it could also be paranoid). And brick, you're ignoring tamo's very valid point here that he openly shared the vig action. I just can't see any reason he'd have done that as scum. I'm sure he got hit with a TON of night actions last night - watchers, trackers, cops, whatever abilities people had. And so as a scum, there's NO WAY he'd invite that scrutiny. So on that basis, I have to think tamo is town. And so the only reason to lynch is to test the cop, which is something we need to do eventually.

On the other hand, I'm bouncing back and forth on fhomess. In his defense, there were only 3 hats left when he took the vig, and one of those 3 was his from day 1, so he really only had 2 choices. We put him in a crappy spot, since we talked yesterday about selecting someone to take the vig hat but then never did. And if he was scum, he'd have stayed away from it to keep the heat off. It's too early in the game for them to risk a scum just to kill a single extra townie. The numbers aren't in their favor on that yet. So I'm leaning town on him too, but I sorta wanna lynch him to get rid of the vig hat. It's just such a risk when the scum can take it any time OR redirect/steal it. I know it's been suggested to "control" the vig tonight, but how? The best I can think of is for the group to vote on a vig target. Then if that person isn't one of the dead, we know the scum used a block/redirect OR fhomess is scum. Either way, it'd be info for tomorrow.

Argh. I just can't bring myself yet to vote tamo, since I think he's town and I just can't knowingly lynch a townie.

[Tamamono]

Walter confirmed that if the thief steals someone's action, and then dies overnight. Both the thief and the stolen action will be lost. The scum wants to be able to kill two birds with one stone, so that's probably not a good idea unless I have the doctor using his ability on me.

If I was scum, why would I want to get rid of the vig action? It's a great way to kill townies. Stop being paranoid and do what's best for town, even if you lynch me.

Wait a minute, how does that work? If Tammo is scum, it confirms that you're not insane, it doesn't mean Draggy wasn't a cop, he absolutely was one. Have no idea if he was sane or not because he died before getting to use it, but that's not the point.

You're not making sense there. That worries me about your other judgements.

So first you're trying to throw shade on Brickelodeon's credibility, and then when you get voted...

Killing me doesn't prove anything or keep the scum from getting a valuable action.

Vote: The Joker (Tamamono)

As for Draggy, the only conclusion I can come to is that his inactivity got him killed. Best I've come up with so far.

You go back and vote for me?

Plus, proving things aren't the point of lynches - getting rid of scum is.

Vote: Starlord (Shadows)

I think we've ignored for far too long that he said he used the redirection on me and then switched and said he did so on TPRU. Not only is the action he finally settled on not a town move by any means, it makes clear that he was trying to lie at first.

I think Dragonator made a big mistake claiming to Shadows, and it got him killed. Shadows then told me about Draggy to discredit Brick so he could get him lynched tomorrow when I flip town.

[Shadows]

I think we've ignored for far too long that he said he used the redirection on me and then switched and said he did so on TPRU. Not only is the action he finally settled on not a town move by any means, it makes clear that he was trying to lie at first.

I never said that. I mistook who I redirected you to, originally thinking I had gone with Mencot when it was TPRU. I have never once claimed not to have redirected you, I was just wrong at who I redirected you to use your action on. As for that not being a town move, as I have explained, I thought you revealing vig was suspicious and potentially scummy enough that redirecting you might mean killing a scum instead of a townie. I've also explained why TPRU and Mencot both looked suspicious to me.

If I was trying to hurt the town, I would have directed you at yourself and gotten rid of the vig kill right then and there. Yes, I'm sure that would have been possible.

Why are you trying to change the whole situation now when people can easily look up exactly what I said?

[Tamamono]

I never said that. I mistook who I redirected you to, originally thinking I had gone with Mencot when it was TPRU. I have never once claimed not to have redirected you, I was just wrong at who I redirected you to use your action on. As for that not being a town move, as I have explained, I thought you revealing vig was suspicious and potentially scummy enough that redirecting you might mean killing a scum instead of a townie. I've also explained why TPRU and Mencot both looked suspicious to me.

If I was trying to hurt the town, I would have directed you at yourself and gotten rid of the vig kill right then and there. Yes, I'm sure that would have been possible.

Why are you trying to change the whole situation now when people can easily look up exactly what I said?

I worded it poorly, but you know what I meant. You changed your claim about who the target was when it became clear that there was a third figure and that somehow my kill must have gotten to one of the dead.

[Mencot]

That was much talk or should I say argument while I was sleeping.

He said, she said megablocks, your scum, becuase I am the cop....

My opinion, not to lynch tammo.

ONe don´t wanna get ride of the vig

Two, don´t think he is lying, the facts of what he has done so far doesn´t say scum.

I have to think about it, who of the others could be the best to vote for...

I want my world to be fun.

[Mencot]

Got hats mixed up.

Tammo has the redirector and fhomess has the vig now.

That is one reason i don't wanna vote on fhomess either.

[Shadows]

I worded it poorly, but you know what I meant. You changed your claim about who the target was when it became clear that there was a third figure and that somehow my kill must have gotten to one of the dead.

Your kill got to one of them, the one I picked. I still stand by that choice, I just wish it had been right. If I was scum, I wouldn't have said a word about any of it and I certainly wouldn't have corrected my mistake. I may be crazy but I'm not stupid, if I was playing a gambit, it would make a lot more sense than this.

[fhomess]

Verily I say that I shall coordinate mine action of death with an agreed upon cosplayer. I wouldst prefer to keep the knowledge of mine target hidden, where the prying eyes of the evil ones mayn't be forewarned.

Both Brickelodeon and Tammo hath ignored events to suit their narratives. I conceive of no deceit in Shadows claim of cop from the dearly departed Dragonator, however I believe not said claim to mark him as friendly.

Shadows, didst thou reveal the inner workings of Egon's proton pack to any soul ere the first night commenced?

[Shadows]

Shadows, didst thou reveal the inner workings of Egon's proton pack to any soul ere the first night commenced?

Draggy.

[Mencot]

Seven hours ago I like had a great idea of who to vote for and why but working all today long...

and my mind is blank, like totally.

But it had to do, with like, Shadow and him redirecting the kill on Tiny and why he choose him instead of me.

I make mistakes in mafia. I'm not perfect; I'm not a robot.

If not for Mencot

I would fly solo

I leave it to faith

For him to be my soulmate

Aww, those fanboys. Every one of my fans is so special to me.

[Zepher]

Verily I say that I shall coordinate mine action of death with an agreed upon cosplayer. I wouldst prefer to keep the knowledge of mine target hidden, where the prying eyes of the evil ones mayn't be forewarned.

So we're voting for the person you're going to coordinate with, or you're just picking one or we're all blindly trusting you two? I'm sorry, but isn't this exactly the way that we were afraid the vig costume would be abused? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt when you scooped it up, because time was running out, but this just seems silly. Even if you fail we'll know to scrutinize certain costumes - here that's not the case at all. It's literally exactly what we were afraid of the scum doing, and now you're doing it...

[JackJonespaw]

That is one reason i don't wanna vote on fhomess either.

RIght, fhomess pretty much secured that he's staying around for today, the helmet is too useful to get rid of.

So we're voting for the person you're going to coordinate with, or you're just picking one or we're all blindly trusting you two? I'm sorry, but isn't this exactly the way that we were afraid the vig costume would be abused? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt when you scooped it up, because time was running out, but this just seems silly. Even if you fail we'll know to scrutinize certain costumes - here that's not the case at all. It's literally exactly what we were afraid of the scum doing, and now you're doing it...

I do agree with this - we were supposed to vote on who would get the helmet first of all (which didn't happen, but that was more of Brick's accusation of Tammo first thing), but we shouldn't work in mystery kills here, not when we know about the helmet's role.

I don't like this situation at all, because we can't get rid of such a valuable costume piece...

[Piratedave84]

Vote: The Joker (Tamamono)

Because really it's the only way to go

Fhomess deserves scrutiny

We should pick the person on whom he is to be deadly

Lind Whisperer

Is IMO a good target for this murderer

"Mencot tu es si beau

Je t'aime pour la vie"

[Brickelodeon]

Okay, I got some sleep and here is what I think about the current situation:

I have been trying to play Speedy. The problem is that I'm not def... I did overlook a few options when railing on about how we should Lynch Tammo. Perhaps we can lynch the scummiest person today, and then see if the investigator hat is insane or not tomorrow. The only problem with this is that Tammo has the redirect role, so he can easily change the results of the cop to scum if he wants. There is also the scenario where Dave dies tonight. If that happens, I still think we should lynch Tammo, just to be sure... I still think that Tammo is the best lynch for today, but if everyone thinks I'm wrong, I will drop it for now.

I'm also going to stop trying to be Speedy. I was hoping that I could be the town leader and stuff, but I don't think I'm good enough at it.